BS: How to get a frozen turkey to the table

Subject: RE: BS: How to get a frozen turkey to the table
From: Janie
Date: 14 Dec 17 - 02:10 AM

The bacon recommendations always intrigue me.

Thaw it however you feel comfortable thawing it such that you yourself are not worried about food poisoning.



I am a fan of either brining or what is called "dry brining" turkey, and with such a huge bird I think it likely one or the other is a good idea to not end up with a dry breast whilst getting the dark meat done. Given the size of the bird and other concerns related to convenience I would recommend dry brining. That involves thawing the bird, doing a heavy, herbed salt rub, wrapping it tightly and letting it absorb the rub.

There are a number of good recipes on-line. I've used several over the years and don't recommend one over another.

I've wet and dry brined turkeys and large roasting hens and find both methods are equal except wet-brining is messier and depends on having huge pots, a huge refrigerator, or the surety the weather will be cold outside and critters will not be drawn to the bird marinating in the cooler or cauldron sitting on the back porch on a sufficiently chilly stretch of weather.

Subject: RE: BS: How to get a frozen turkey to the table
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Dec 17 - 03:17 AM

Before you state that please Miss somebody did it first Miss

No chance he even can, Raggy. It was a perfectly normal and civil discussion until 13 Dec 17 - 10:33 AM. I'll let you figure out what happened then and add another line to my list. Some people will just shit on anything to annoy others.

Donuel - You would be welcome in this company but it is a great responsibility. How are you at calling bingo numbers? (Ask Steve) :-)

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: How to get a frozen turkey to the table
From: mg
Date: 14 Dec 17 - 03:28 AM

I personally would let it thaw overnight..it would not totally thaw but they really freeze those turkeys extremely. Then I would cook it frozen. Lots of google ideas and assurances of safety. Cook longer and lower temp. Check for doneness. Don't serve it if it is not totally unequivocally done. Have a backup plan. I don't like OCD turkeys. I never thaw meat...just cook it frozen. Have ER on speed dial.

Subject: RE: BS: How to get a frozen turkey to the table
From: Raggytash
Date: 14 Dec 17 - 04:11 AM

Salmonella isn't a myth Lefthanded, at best it will make you very ill, at worst it can kill.

In 2015 Globally over a quarter of a million people died from Salmonella poisoning.

Subject: RE: BS: How to get a frozen turkey to the table
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Dec 17 - 07:56 AM

You are at greater risk of food poisoning if your turkey is cold when it goes in the oven, as the middle of the bird won't get as hot during your chosen cooking time. The bird needs to be at room temp, not fridge temp, when it goes in the oven.

If your frozen turkey contains salmonella (etc.), the germs will still be there whether thawed in the fridge (danger of spreading the germs!) or in a cool room. In the latter case they will increase somewhat, especially if you wait a long time before cooking it. But here's the thing: in either case, proper cooking will kill ALL the bacteria. By proper cooking I mean getting the whole bird, including the deepest bits, hot enough. There's more chance of you achieving that if it goes in the oven at room temperature.

Food poisoning nearly always occurs when cooked food is kept warm, but not hot, for lengthy periods of time. Your well-cooked turkey is off to a good start, as it will contain no live salmonella when it comes out of the oven. Of course, it could pick some up from your worktops, dishcloths or unwashed hands. As soon as it cools to room temp the leftover turkey should be put in the fridge where it should be fine for three or four days. I always take the meat off the bones first in order to save space. The bones make a lovely stock for hearty soup, and lots of it, if you boil them for an hour or two with a carrot or two, some onions, a stick of celery and some herbs.

The only way you're going to get food poisoning from your uncooked turkey is by letting it come into contact with your hands, work surfaces or dishcloths which are then allowed to come into contact with food that isn't going to be heated. The most effective way of spreading germs from your raw turkey is to immerse it in liquid, which is then in danger of getting everywhere. Raw poultry in the UK has advice on the wrapper not to wash it. Brining will not kill all the pathogens.

Subject: RE: BS: How to get a frozen turkey to the table
From: Raggytash
Date: 14 Dec 17 - 08:34 AM

A bird will still cook thoroughly at 160 it will just take a little longer but perhaps not dry out as much, as Turkey is wont to do.

Subject: RE: BS: How to get a frozen turkey to the table
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Dec 17 - 08:58 AM

180C (I had a degree symbol stashed away somewhere but I can't find it), thinking of a fan oven, is not ideal for three hours'-worth of roasting because it will dry out the breast meat. Meat is a very poor conductor of heat, so more leisurely cooking at a slightly lower temperature allows more time for heat to penetrate the bird whilst lessening the drying out. It's a balancing act. If I cooked my thirteen-pounders for three hours at 180C I can guarantee that the result would be greeted not with festive glee but with respectful silence accompanying the required manly chewing. Been there, done it, got the sweat-stained paper hat.

Over the years I've tried everything and I can only relate my own experiences. I hear what everyone else has to say, most of it is interesting but some of it is about approaches I've tried and rejected. I suppose that I've cooked sixty or seventy turkeys in my time, though I admit that a year in between is just about long enough to forget what I did right last time.

Subject: RE: BS: How to get a frozen turkey to the table
From: Jeri
Date: 14 Dec 17 - 10:32 AM

The 160°C should be 160°F. 160°C is 320°F, and although it will kill salmonella, the turkey cinders probably won't be enjoyable (even with gravy).

Subject: RE: BS: How to get a frozen turkey to the table
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Dec 17 - 11:24 AM

Jeri, I think the 160^oC turkey is the recipe for the first Wham-O Super Ball.

Subject: RE: BS: How to get a frozen turkey to the table
From: Iains
Date: 14 Dec 17 - 11:58 AM

Using a fan oven gives a far more even heat distribution. As a result of this, both temperatures and cooking times need to be reduced to compensate. Having lived in areas prone to power cuts I have always made it a point to use a gas oven. Gas ovens with fans are fairly rare beasts.

Subject: RE: BS: How to get a frozen turkey to the table
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Dec 17 - 01:32 PM

No, 160C is definitely what I meant, Jeri.

Subject: RE: BS: How to get a frozen turkey to the table
From: Jeri
Date: 14 Dec 17 - 01:52 PM

Definitely would kill salmonella.

Subject: RE: BS: How to get a frozen turkey to the table
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Dec 17 - 02:26 PM

USDA recommends an oven temp of no lower than 325F, Jeri. It tells you to ensure that the centre of the bird should reach 165F. Is that what you're thinking of?

Subject: RE: BS: How to get a frozen turkey to the table
From: Jeri
Date: 14 Dec 17 - 03:47 PM

Yes, Steve, sorry. I must've thought you meant the temperature of the bird, not the oven.

Subject: RE: BS: How to get a frozen turkey to the table
From: robomatic
Date: 14 Dec 17 - 04:43 PM

Here is the on-line instruction sheet for Self Basting Turkey

Some of the respondents indicate they cooked large turkeys (18-20 lb.) in rather less time than I would expect. I also don't trust that there would be enough juice left for a lot of gravy. Otherwise in my experience the major time saver is that you don't have to spend time basting, which come to think of it would extend the time it takes to cook because you'd have to open the oven door and perform the basting and that would let heat out of the oven.

I've been using the 'bag' method for many many years since before the Reynolds oven bags. One used to procure prime supermarket brown grocery bags, 2 per turkey, rub them translucent with butter, then scootch the turkey inside of one then box it in with the other. A fun if greasy procedure. The advent of the cookery bag has made this unnecessary and the procedure is all too easy now. Kind of set it and forget it.

You do want to start with a thawed bird, of course, for the times to work out.

Subject: RE: BS: How to get a frozen turkey to the table
From: mg
Date: 14 Dec 17 - 07:15 PM

times at least used to vary if cooked on major holiday vs. ordinary day because of electric load..at least my mother said it was so. however, it is not really a tradition here to have turkey on christmas..more ham usually.

Subject: RE: BS: How to get a frozen turkey to the table
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Dec 17 - 07:41 PM

I agree about turkey. But for the shackles of Christmas tradition I'd never bother with it. A five-pound corn-fed free-range chicken is infinitely superior, and a huge shoulder of lamb on the bone, slow-cooked for at least six hours, is better still. That's the acme (sorry, Acme). Mrs Steve, unfortunately, is a little averse to properly-cooked beef (which means very pink in the middle), and I can't countenance "well-done beef." So we never do roast beef, though I have several exceptional beef stews and casseroles in my repertoire, the best of which is Elizabeth David's daube from her book French Provincial Cooking. You could google that and you might get it on the Guardian website. But I have ze book!

Subject: RE: BS: How to get a frozen turkey to the table
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 15 Dec 17 - 02:57 AM

Steve,
Why don't you cook two small joints of beef? - one spoilt, for your wife and one cooked properly, for you.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: How to get a frozen turkey to the table
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Dec 17 - 04:16 AM

I always think that big hunks of meat cook the best...actually, I'm quite happy as long as I get the occasional sirloin or ribeye, barely seared....

Subject: RE: BS: How to get a frozen turkey to the table
From: lefthanded guitar
Date: 28 Dec 17 - 07:47 PM

That turkey is done-and it is DELICIOUS??!!!!!!!


Well if anyone for whatever reason was curious as to how it turned out and what advice helped me in getting this gargantuan bird from freezer to table, well here s the story. I took advice from many of you - and reverted to the old fashioned way of family cooking
Since leezia and others were so concerned about salmonella safety, I did decide to thaw it in the fridge. Took 4 days and wasn t even fully thawed then! But enough for me to pull out and discard the gizzard, etc. I spent and hour and a half cooking at a low light, then could remove the neck from the cavity, and discard that silly plastic thermometer pop up thing i.e.- my word if I m worried about health why would I want to cook plastic?


I removed the turkey from the murky fluid and set it in a new clean pan. I want you to know that bird STILL was not fully thawed! And I was getting a little daunted if not thoroughly annoyed by the printed instructions and the entirely unhelpful lady at Shady room phone support who glibly suggested if I had any questions to read the instructions. Which states for a 15 pound bird (so they say on the label but it felt more like 25 to me) I should cook it for 3 hours - to which I reply: are you kidding me????? It takes me 2 hours to cook a small chicken in my stove. 3 hours wouldn't ' t cook a wing on this pterodactlyle.
And then I decided to go back to my roots - to cook the turkey the old fashioned folksy way that had gone back generations. Sooooooooo.... I said goodbye and fare thee well to the tongs and the turkey baster, spices and lid I d purchased for this very occasion and did it the old school way: I cut up a half dozen onions. I poured a half cylinder of water into the pan with turkey and onions and threw a handful of salt over this bird- made a tent of aluminum foil , shoved it in the oven at 350 (Farenheit) on this side of the pond, cued in some Judy Collins for aural assistance- and that s it. I cooked that sucker for 2 days!!well let s say overnight and half midday. I turned it off from time to time & met it sit in a hot oven for a few hours, I don t know why my ancestors did this bit we did. Total actual cooking time- 8 hours . Plus standing time. And it s PERFECT -succulent and delicious and immersed in a kettle pond of onion gravy. I didn t even have to carve it- meat fell right off the bone?? as it always did in my house.

So it s all been transferred to another smaller bowl and ready to be served this weekend. Except the leg. My favorite part. Well ya know I DID have to sample it best to see it was okay for company. So it ll be missing a leg before the guests get at it. Who s to know.? With a bird this scrumptious no one should complain - and with a meal this
time consuming, no one should dare.

Wonderful help from all you catters and next year, for sure, we re eating out! I m glad I ve done it but unless they invent a self cooking self serving bird, I ve done my job for the holiday, the year & 21 st century.

Subject: RE: BS: How to get a frozen turkey to the table
From: keberoxu
Date: 28 Dec 17 - 07:59 PM

That's a hilarious story, lefthanded guitar, and who doesn't enjoy a happy ending.

Enjoy the leftover turkey as well.
Memorable sandwich makings.

Subject: RE: BS: How to get a frozen turkey to the table
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 29 Dec 17 - 07:17 PM

old ways are best! & yummiest

Subject: RE: BS: How to get a frozen turkey to the table
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 31 Dec 17 - 12:47 AM

Stewed turkey. Interesting!

I have a bird in the small fridge continuing to thaw after it spent the day in a deep tub of water defrosting. On Monday morning it will go into brine for a few hours (until we know my son's girlfriend will be able to catch the standby flight she is aiming for). Once she's on the plane, the bird goes into the oven. Baking time and standing time mean she should be walking in the door at dinner time. (That will translate to about 3-3.5 hours in the oven for an unstuffed bird.)