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BS: Why are we trying to catch Bin Laden?
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BS: Why are we trying to catch Bin Laden? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why are we trying to catch Bin Laden? From: Terry K Date: 08 Dec 01 - 02:19 AM I'm concerned about the woolly-minded thinking that suggests doing away with Bin Laden will create a worse situation by making him a martyr. It didn't happen when Hitler got his lot, so I'm prepared to take the risk. Cheers, Terry |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why are we trying to catch Bin Laden? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 08 Dec 01 - 12:30 PM I think if you trawl through the political commentators, Doug - and I'm not talking about the comic-book ones - that has been a pretty widespread interpretion of the implication of statements by Bush and Rumsfeld. As I put it "every pundit writing in the media seems to be pretty clear that, so far as the US is concerned, the aim is not to catch Bin Laden, but to kill him."
They may be wrong and "every" is a rhetorical exaggeration on my part, since obviously I haven't seen what every pundit has written - I should have said that that is how all the ones I have seen have interpreted it. But I haven't seen too much about any statements from Bush and Rumsfeld complaining about the misinterpretation. Again, perhaps there have been such statements, and they haven't been reported too widely.
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Subject: RE: BS: Why are we trying to catch Bin Laden? From: *#1 PEASANT* Date: 08 Dec 01 - 12:38 PM SO WE CAN KILL HIM!!!! cb |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why are we trying to catch Bin Laden? From: Little Hawk Date: 08 Dec 01 - 04:53 PM I feel better when underdogs win too, Amos! Always have felt that way, since I was a little kid. So...which underdog are we talking about in this case? Actually, I most prefer situations where everyone wins...but that's a whole other philosophical subject (thread drift, in other words). Regarding Pakistan, I think the main danger of a fundamentalist regime in that country would be to Pakistan itself, Kashmir, the Punjab, and India...not to the USA. If Pakistan becomes destabilized, it will probably be the Pakistanis themselves who suffer the highest body count. That's certainly what Afghanistan and Iran have experienced by so doing in recent times. - LH |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why are we trying to catch Bin Laden? From: DougR Date: 08 Dec 01 - 08:39 PM I will admit, McGrath, that I don't think anyone in the administration will be devastated if Osama catches a fatal bullet, or gets in the way of a bomb. That's purely a guess on my part though. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why are we trying to catch Bin Laden? From: kj... Date: 08 Dec 01 - 10:54 PM ....we're not really trying to *catch* bin laden....just chase him around a bit so we can grab some more oil and make lots of money on the market.....(excluding self from royal we)....... .....if we actually catch him...we'll have to go to all the trouble of finding a new one to catch..... ....well i'm not *always* cynical..... :)kj |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why are we trying to catch Bin Laden? From: Margo Date: 09 Dec 01 - 01:40 AM I predict that Bin Laden will die on an American holiday... :o) Margo |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why are we trying to catch Bin Laden? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 09 Dec 01 - 07:52 AM I think Doug, you confirm, what I said.
If they fail to capture Bin Laden and to put him on trial it will be a serious failure. Yes, it could well be that Bin Laden gets killed or kills himself. But if that happens it will be very much a second best outcome.
It seems very likely that the people in charge don't see it that way, and think that, if he gets killed rather than captured, that'll be a better alternative. My opinion - and I predict that this will be the view of most future historians - is that that's crazy and irresponsible.
Does anyone think that Stalin was right in wanting to avoid having the Nuremberg Trials, and just have the Nazi leaders shot out of hand?
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Subject: RE: BS: Why are we trying to catch Bin Laden? From: katlaughing Date: 09 Dec 01 - 08:29 AM The men who actually perpetrated the crime died with their victims. The Hunt for Bin Laden is partly because the Shrub's presidency needed a big-time focus and useful diversion to keep other things moving through Congress without too much awareness/interference by the rabble and, partly to satisfy the victim's families and the rest of the country who want revenge/justice. Of course that is somewhat of a simplistic take, but it does fit in the mix. Amos, there are those of us who do not relish the death of anyone. I believe bin Laden should have a trial, but the outcome would be a foregone conclusion in this country. If it is to happen it should be elsewhere such as the Hague. If found guilty, I think he should be left to live out his natural life, in solitary confinement, living simply on simple food, no contact with the outside world and no luxuries, including books and music. Either way he will be/is a martyr to those who would follow him. kat |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why are we trying to catch Bin Laden? From: Gareth Date: 09 Dec 01 - 09:45 AM The orders not to take Ben Ladin alive may not have been given, but is there not an historic parallel ? "Will no one rid me of this turbulant Priest" Gareth - a former resident of Canterbury. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why are we trying to catch Bin Laden? From: Little Hawk Date: 09 Dec 01 - 10:05 AM Kat - I agree with your analysis. - LH |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why are we trying to catch Bin Laden? From: Celtic Soul Date: 09 Dec 01 - 10:12 AM Simply put, a lion without a head has a hard time eating you.
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Subject: RE: BS: Why are we trying to catch Bin Laden? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 09 Dec 01 - 12:21 PM That's all right for lions, less good when you're dealing with a hydra.
Or, lets say you're dealing with a disease, any doctor who think you've got to concentrate on finding some individual Big Boss Bug, and kill it, is not going to have much chance of curing anyone. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why are we trying to catch Bin Laden? From: Midchuck Date: 09 Dec 01 - 12:25 PM I just noticed that the title of this thread fits the meter of "What Will We Do With A Drunken Sailor." Endless possibilities.... Peter. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why are we trying to catch Bin Laden? From: katlaughing Date: 09 Dec 01 - 01:30 PM Thanks, LH. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why are we trying to catch Bin Laden? From: GUEST,colwyn dane Date: 09 Dec 01 - 01:39 PM The Nuremberg War Crimes Trials were used to try the leaders of a defeated country - under an ex post facto law - some have said: "I think the Nuremberg trials are a black page in the history of the world... I discussed the legality of these trials with some of the lawyers and some of the judges who participated therein. They did not attempt to justify their action on any legal ground, but rested their position on the fact that in their opinion, the parties convicted were guilty..."(1) and "....it permitted the accusers to act as prosecutors, judges, jury and executioners; and it admitted to the group of prosecutors those who had been guilty of crimes as numerous and atrocious as those with which the accused were charged. Hence, it is not surprising that these trials degraded international jurisprudence as never before in human experience."(2) Stalin would have been right to have shot the German leaders out of hand but of course that was his idea of righteouness.
I think that any apprehension of OBL et co should not be seen as the capture of the leaders of a defeated country
CD.
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Subject: RE: BS: Why are we trying to catch Bin Laden? From: heric Date: 09 Dec 01 - 01:58 PM Nails his balls to a stump and set a fire 'round Balls to a stump and set a fire 'round Balls to a stump and set a fire 'round When we catch bin Laden -------------- Give'm a well hung cell mate with no K-Y Well hung cell mate with no K-Y Kneel and pray hard to the Big Guy When you're caught bin Laden ------------- Give'm a sex change in Afghanistan No anesthesia that's the game plan Feed'm on Spam and undercooked ham When we catch bin Laden -------------------------------- Hava Nagila never ending Hindu prayers ever offending Millions of folks are always sending Powder to his mail bag --------------------- Spiritual lessons from Madonna Buddhist chants to find Nirvana Daily exams now do you wanna Learn electric guitar -------------------------- Okay, flamethrowers out: I can take it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why are we trying to catch Bin Laden? From: Ebbie Date: 09 Dec 01 - 02:33 PM Wow, Dan. Remind me of this before I move next door. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why are we trying to catch Bin Laden? From: heric Date: 09 Dec 01 - 02:46 PM Hey, wait, Ebbie. That's an amalgam of collective mudcat thoughts. It's not my own mind, really! It's research. . . |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why are we trying to catch Bin Laden? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 09 Dec 01 - 03:28 PM The only thing wrong with the Nuremberg trials was that it wasn't possible for the same judges to also try some of the people on the winning side.
That's why we need a genuine international war crimes court which isn't going to take any notice of which side the war criminals are on.
There are some things that need to be the subject of criminal trials, no matter who does them.
I understand the American government is still dead set against that happening. That a great pity. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why are we trying to catch Bin Laden? From: Wolfgang Date: 10 Dec 01 - 07:29 AM Margo, good joke; telling the respective version of it (Hitler will die on a Jewish holiday) would have cost you your life in prewar Germany. The joke is at least that old, perhaps older, but I still like it. May you keep your life for a very long time to come. Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why are we trying to catch Bin Laden? From: Celtic Soul Date: 10 Dec 01 - 10:19 PM Oh jeez, Peter!!! LOL!!! I have really hated the song Drunken Sailor for a lot of years, but I think you may have just enlivened it for me! :D |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why are we trying to catch Bin Laden? From: kj... Date: 10 Dec 01 - 11:03 PM ...yes katlaughing.... .."..If you want revenge you need to dig two graves...." Chinese proverb or something else not mine... :)kj |