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You guys've stood in my way long enough
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Subject: You guys've stood in my way long enough From: Marion Date: 27 Nov 02 - 09:45 PM Hello everyone. I am happy to announce that as of yesterday I've quit the day job and plan to make my living just from music: a little busking, a little teaching, and a little gigging. A little scary too, but exciting! Phase two of my plan to run off to Toronto and become a star is now complete. (Also, I turned 30 yesterday... this is not a coincidence.) Three of the people who have played a significant part in this decision are Mudcatters, so I'd like to say a word about them, in chronological order: Rick Fielding, who told me that I could and should play professionally. Although for a while I thought he was just full of it, this was the first time I'd heard this from a knowledgeable source, and it got me thinking. Also, Rick has given me a lot of help lately with advice/loans for recording and amplification. I guess you win your bet, dude. Jed Marum, who may be surprised to see his name here since we've just met briefly and his effect on me was unintentional. Nonetheless, he influenced me in two ways. First, hearing him play and listening to his first CD brought home to me, in a new way, what a fine thing it is to be able to sing and play nicely, and write good songs, and play along with other people readily... and that this ability is a worthwhile thing for me to devote myself to. On the other hand, listening to Jed made me feel that I'm a very long way from being able to do what I want musically, and that I'm too old to sit at home practicing and dreaming of someday. I had to find a way to do something now, or I won't be a musician till I'm sixty. That's where Genie comes in. Recently she has gone out of her way to give me loads of practical and specific advice on playing in the seniors' niche market, both from the business and performance ends of things. But the biggest thing she's done for me is not in the specifics but in the general: she opened my eyes to how I could start making a steady income in music with what I know now - and without the sucky TTC! (I should add that this list is of Mudcatters who have influenced my professional plans; if I were to list those who have helped me develop my musicianship I could go on and on about Willie-O, M.Ted, Justa Picker, Mark Clark, and others...) Love, Marion |
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Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough From: Mr Happy Date: 27 Nov 02 - 09:52 PM hope u can make a living!- good luck!- but b prepared 2 take on ANY kind of job in the low times 2 survive another day- again good luck 2 u if u can make it in the music world. its good 2 do something u enjoy & get paid 4 it 2! |
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Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough From: Rapparee Date: 27 Nov 02 - 09:52 PM Congratulations, and go for it. Remember us when you're rich and famous. |
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Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca Date: 27 Nov 02 - 09:53 PM Congratulations! Have a good time. Enjoy your music. |
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Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough From: Sorcha Date: 27 Nov 02 - 09:56 PM Good on ya, Marion!! Good Luck and Break a Leg! |
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Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough From: Clinton Hammond Date: 27 Nov 02 - 09:58 PM Dude, if -I- can do it, there's absolutely NO reason why anyone else can't! Good on ya! ;-) |
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Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough From: Genie Date: 27 Nov 02 - 10:00 PM Thanks, Marion. Glad my two-cents worth was worth at least that! ;-D And glad you're going for it! (If I can do it, I know you can. I don't play or sing nearly as well as Jed, judging from the CD you so graciously sent me, but there's still a market for what I do, and I have no doubt you'll find/develop your own.) BTW, what is "TTC?" (Top-ten country? Ticky-Tacky ClichŽs?) Genie |
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Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough From: Justa Picker Date: 27 Nov 02 - 10:03 PM Do what you love. Love what you do. Congrats! |
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Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough From: John Hardly Date: 27 Nov 02 - 10:05 PM good luck! Glad to hear it, and I suspect that you'll do well. |
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Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough From: Jeri Date: 27 Nov 02 - 10:14 PM Congratulations on your decision - I hope you love it all, both the hard times and the easy. Happy Day-After-Your-Birthday too! |
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Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough From: kendall Date: 27 Nov 02 - 10:31 PM As I have said before, You gotta get out on the limb; That's where the fruit is. Go for it. |
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Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough From: Bluesmike Date: 27 Nov 02 - 11:00 PM Go for it girl- may your dreams come true. Michael |
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Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough From: Amos Date: 27 Nov 02 - 11:14 PM YAAAAAAAYYYYYYY MARION!!! A |
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Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 27 Nov 02 - 11:18 PM Brillant thinking - girly....(Can't Understand Normal Thinking....
The good Lord knows You WILL be paying your dues over the next four months.....what timing!
Unemployment is rising With the Salvation Army Band.
I feel for you girly.....but my arms can't quite reach.
Sincerely, |
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Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough From: bflat Date: 28 Nov 02 - 12:04 AM Marion, I hope you are the biggest folk star ever! I would wish that for you just for venturing out and giving it your all. If you never try to grab the brass ring you will never know what might have been. But I also wish you well on the journey, that you satisfy your heart and soul for the experience alone. Good Luck! Ellen |
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Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough From: Rick Fielding Date: 28 Nov 02 - 12:04 AM Hey, what do I win??? "Full of it eh"? Ahhhh I get that occasionally when I see something intangible in another person. For what it's worth, of the thirty four folks I've taught and worked with this year, I've told two of them (naturally you were one) that if they wanted to earn their living with music exclusively they could. Of the remaining thirty two, there are some pretty fine musicians, and a few folks with great potential. But still.....there've been only two who I think don't NEED a day job.....yup, it's the intangibles. By the way, there's someone on Mudcat who's gonna be a very recognized songwriter in a couple of years.....intangible again. ALWAYS ASK FOR CASH, MARION! Cheers Rick |
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Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough From: Marion Date: 28 Nov 02 - 12:59 AM Sorry, Genie, I keep forgetting that there are people outside the Centre of the Universe (Toronto). See this thread to learn more about the sucky TTC. Rick, you win ten bucks. Will you take a cheque? Thanks for your kinds words, everybody. Marion |
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Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough From: alanabit Date: 28 Nov 02 - 02:51 AM Good luck Marion. I have followed your posts with interest for a couple of years now. I remember back in 1979 when my best friend told me that if I did not at least give it a go, I would one day be asking myself, "Could I have done it?" I said there and then that I would give in my notice the next morning. I woke up thinking,"Oh God what have I done!" But I went ahead and did it anyway. If Rick says you are ready, I can say without any doubt that you are a far more accomplished player than I was at the time. I was twenty-three then and I went to Cologne for the first time. It took me about six weeks to learn how to pull crowds and then it was into the craft of learning how to work them and make them want to pay. I wish I could see you working. If you ever plan a visit to this continent, please PM me so that I can make all the information and help I can offer available to you. Good luck with it. Alan. |
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Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough From: greg stephens Date: 28 Nov 02 - 04:48 AM Good luck Marion, welcome to the club. it's hard work, but when I look round at the Ferrari, the yacht, the race horse and the Capability Brown park I just think"folk music's been good to me". |
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Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough From: alanww Date: 28 Nov 02 - 06:05 AM Good luck Marion! I hope you get loads of gigs. But even if you do, don't give up the busking completely (well until you are really famous and loaded, I suppose!) It is a very good way to commune with the public - and its fun! Please give us regular reports about how you get on, eg busking in the winter ... "Twas on one April morning just as the sun was rising ...!" Alan |
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Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough From: KingBrilliant Date: 28 Nov 02 - 06:19 AM Go for it Marion! Kris |
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Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough From: George Papavgeris Date: 28 Nov 02 - 06:48 AM If I look green, I'm only jealous. Well done for the decision; can't have been as easy as you made it sound. Now up to you to make it be the right decision.I don't know you, but if Rick says you can do it, then surely you can. Power to you, lass; I'll look out for your name. |
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Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough From: Jeri Date: 28 Nov 02 - 09:05 AM By the way Marion, you should hear what Rick says behind your back. (It at least as complimentary as what he says in before your front.) He IS full of something, but it isn't unwarranted praise. |
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Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough From: Marion Date: 28 Nov 02 - 09:32 AM Funny you should mention that, Alanabit - my mother has announced that she's sending me to Germany for my 30th birthday. First and last stop will be in Munich where my sister lives, but as long as I'm crossing the ocean I want to do some more travelling, I have people in France and Spain I'd like to see, and I've always wanted to take my Czech fiddle back to meet its parents. It probably won't be till late spring or summer, though, to make travelling easier and give me lots of time to plan. Maybe I can make it a busking tour. Cheers, Marion |
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Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough From: greg stephens Date: 28 Nov 02 - 10:37 AM Loads of town in southern Germany where the busking is excellent. Get iin touch if you want advice. |
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Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough From: Don Firth Date: 28 Nov 02 - 02:18 PM Legend has it that Tom Robbins, author of such literary snickers bars as Another Roadside Attraction and Even Cowgirls Get the Blues, worked at the Seattle Times newspaper and did his own writing on the side. But he felt like he didn't have enough time to devote to his own writing and feared that he would never accomplish anything worthwhile. Frustrating! One morning while driving to work, he made a decision. He pulled his car over to the curb, got out, went into a phone booth, and called the paper. "I'm not coming in today." "Oh. You're calling in sick?" "No, I'm calling in well." "What? What do you mean 'calling in well?'" "Let's put it this way: I've been sick for a long time. But not anymore. So I'm calling in well. I quit." He went home and sat down at the typewriter. The rest is history. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough From: Marion Date: 29 Nov 02 - 09:15 AM Thanks Greg, I'm sure I'll be consulting the Cat about European busking and couches. Think I'll wait till after Christmas to think about that though! Marion Greg: "When they say 'Follow your bliss', they make it sound like it's going to be fun." Charma: "Yeah, that's how they suck you in. It's kind of like the army and 'Be all you can be'." |
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Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough From: EBarnacle1 Date: 29 Nov 02 - 09:58 AM L'Chayim. Go for it. The only things in this life that I regret are the things I haven't tried. |
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Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough From: Willie-O Date: 29 Nov 02 - 10:01 AM Marion, I am so proud of you. You have both the talent and even more important, the dedication to the craft, to go a long way. And you have inspired me. I'm gonna have to practice more. Bill |
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Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough From: JedMarum Date: 29 Nov 02 - 01:03 PM Wow - Marion, I was surprised to see my name here!! Thanks for the comments - I am not sure if I should offer congratulations or my condolences, though!! Having made the move myself just a couple of years ago, I suspect you're in for some very tough times making ends meet; hence my condolences - but if you're really determined and really lucky, you'll manage, I'm sure! Still it is good have your fate in you own hands, be your own boss, wok hard at what you love, and develop your music to a serious level. All of these things make me say congratulations. All the best with your new venture! |
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Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough From: GUEST,Jeep Man Date: 29 Nov 02 - 08:39 PM Go for it!! Don't look back 30 years from now and wonder if you could have done it. Don't get to serious and have fun now. Jim |
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Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough From: Seamus Date: 30 Nov 02 - 05:13 PM The last time I held a "real" job was for a Construction Company. The man called me in and told me it wasn't working out. I said thanks, that we're still mates, and that I'd clean out my desk. He came out to me about a minute later. "Here" he said holding out a piece of paper. "if any one asks why you were let go..." It was a piece of scrap paper written in pencil. I read it and nearly pissed myself laughing. I made him sign it, and signed it as well. It now hangs in a frame above my writing desk at home. It reads: We have agreed that Artistry and Construction are incompatable. Good luck! |
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Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough From: Rick Fielding Date: 30 Nov 02 - 05:19 PM Wonderful Seamus! |
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Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough From: Marion Date: 02 Dec 02 - 02:04 PM Thanks, Willie-O, I like your post a lot. Jed, don't worry, this was a well-planned decision. For the past few months I've been working every minute I could; there far too many days when I worked a day shift at one job, then a night shift at another, then went out to a gig the next morning... but it means that I've saved a lot. In the unlikely event that all the bookings I have now are cancelled, and both my students quit, and I don't get another gig for the next five months... I can still pay rent and buy groceries till next busking season. Cheers, Marion |
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Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough From: Genie Date: 02 Dec 02 - 03:14 PM Marion, I actually did live in Toronto (Downsview) for 3 years, but I seldom used mass transit because I lived and worked in the suburbs. Sounds like TTC's attitude is similar to Portland's Gestapo re buskers! And, when you said your birthday was "coming up soon," you didn't say HOW soon! So here's a belated Happy Birthday, Marion! Knock 'em dead, girl!
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Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough From: Seamus Kennedy Date: 02 Dec 02 - 03:39 PM Marion, I've been doing it for over 30 years now, and I've loved every minute of it. Of course there were some hard times, but the good - no make that GREAT - times, far outweighed the hard ones. Stick with it, enjoy every day, let the naysayers and begrudgers wash off you like water off a duck's back, and welcome to the club. Incidentally, to correct Sorcha; one must never say "Break a leg" to a musician. That's for actors. To a musician one must say, "Break a finger!" *G* Seamus KennedynottheSeamusupabovethere. |
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Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough From: meatrail Date: 02 Dec 02 - 04:45 PM Congratulations on your decision. Best of luck an all. I've busked on ann off for moor years than I can reemmber. And I've quit some jobs when they got in the way of my life. I've been accused of never haven had a impulse I didnn't act on, but you sound like you've thought this through an done what is good for yourself. there'd be more happy people in this ould world if more people "followed their bliss." Hell,ain't hardly nobody goen to get out of this life without working so you might as well work at what' enjoyable. Good on yer, Marion! and go build some great memories. Tunney P.S. I liked the Tom Robbins story real well. |
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Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough From: Mark Clark Date: 02 Dec 02 - 05:21 PM Congratulations, Marion. I know you're going to be a big success. Your enthusiasm and dedication reminds me of an old friend who quit his job about twenty-eight years ago now and has made a successful living at music ever since. The difference between you and my friend is that he quit his job to learn to play his instrument. He figured it would take complete focus and dedication to learn to play at the level he wanted and he never looked back. He's taken his band all over the world and recorded many successful albums so I guess he did the right thing. I guess you did too. Best of luck, - Mark |
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Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough From: Big Mick Date: 03 Dec 02 - 12:15 AM This one doesn't surprise me. I have had the good fortune several times to hear Marion play and sing. She has that intangible that good performers have. For me, it is the way she works a lyric. I envy you, my dear. And I am anxious to hear you again. You are going to be fine. I hope we sing together again, soon. All the very best, Mick |
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Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough From: Benjamin Date: 03 Dec 02 - 12:28 AM Hey, I've never stood in your way! Nor do I plan on standing in your way! I'm also content to move if asked! Good job! Benjamin All your dreams are on their way, see how they shine!!! |
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Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough From: Marion Date: 05 Dec 02 - 02:17 AM THANK YOU, Benjamin, I was waiting for someone to ask about the thread title. It's from a classic episode of the Simpsons, where Homer suddenly stands up at the dinner table and announces to his family, "You people have stood in my way long enough! I'm going to clown college!" There's that word "intangible" again. No, what being able to go pro came down to was totally tangible; a little planning, a little practicing, a lot of promotion, and a little selling out. Intangible my ass. Cheers, Marion |
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Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough From: Marion Date: 05 Dec 02 - 02:21 AM PS to Mick: Upon rereading I find that my last post may have been a little more curt than was strictly necessary. I still love you (even if you don't know the difference between "once" and "several times" ;)). Marion |
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Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough From: Big Mick Date: 05 Dec 02 - 08:14 AM Ease up there, woman. I have heard you sing in Rick's backyard, as well as Paul's backyard. I think that qualifies as several. And bless your heart, but you need to understand that you do have that intangible that comes from ones life experience. The things you describe fall into the "commitment" category. The way you turn a phrase in your songs, interpret the lyrics, conveying sincerity and understanding the lyrics, losing yourself in the yarn you are spinning.......those are the intangibles. Ever seen a performer who was technically great on the instruments, memorized all the lyrics, and came off very sterile, or worse as a cookie cutter version of the original lyric? Those don't have the intangible. And I still love you too...........even though you were very curt. I guess I have done that a few times, eh? Mick |
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Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough From: KingBrilliant Date: 05 Dec 02 - 08:26 AM Oh - would that my ass were that intangible :@) That sounds like fantastic praise Marion - if you've got that intangible thing then you are a true magician. And if you've got the tangibles too then you are doubly blessed. I hope its going well. Kris |
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Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough From: Marion Date: 08 Dec 02 - 04:56 PM OK Mick, I see what you're doing there. Sure, if you count the one time we jammed in reality (at the Mills') AND the times we jammed just in your mind, then you can call it several times. Further on the subject of tangibility: there's someone I know here in Toronto who's five times the fiddler I am. On the way to one of my gigs last week I came across him busking on the subway, which I found a little depressing (note: while I think that busking on the street is a proud activity, I consider it a little degrading for a fine musician to go through the TTC process and pay for the privilege of a licence). Also, I recently asked him to fill in for me on a relatively low-paying gig that I couldn't do because I was already booked; he accepted the gig and thanked me for it, saying that his bookings had dried up lately. So why am I tossing this guy a loonie - or a referral - while I'm on my way to a gig? It's nothing to do with technical ability or mysterious performance qualities. It's because in recent months I've spent a lot more time than he has in the library researching prospects, and on the phone introducing myself to strangers. Intangible my ass. Cheers, Marion |
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Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough From: Big Mick Date: 09 Dec 02 - 08:38 AM OK.........apparently my trying to convey a compliment about something I like about your performance style has offended you. I apologize. Mick |
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Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough From: Willie-O Date: 09 Dec 02 - 09:10 AM Settle down kids! You're both right! There is nothing intangible about taking care of business. Mick's talking strictly about a performance value; you can call it intangible, or a connection to the music. It's something that'll definitely help you succeed in your calling (along with the aforementioned dedication to the craft), and it's the reason that people like Rick and me and your old fiddle teacher in CB, who have had the pleasure of helping you develop your talent, enjoyed it so much. Some of your audience will realize this, some will INTERNALLY realize it without quite knowing, and a bunch of them won't get it at all. But it won't get you gigs, as such. As you know, that's about making phone calls, putting promo together, and making more phone calls. Then making follow-up calls. (A process I've never had any patience for, that's why I generally make my living another way.) Once in a while you get lucky and find a booker who actually recognizes the intangibles that make your performance something special, but those people are few and far between. Most of them just want what they think of the correct "type of music" for their venue, presented by a reliable person who will not cause them a lot of extra work. So Mick and Marion, would you PLEASE kiss and make up and quit sniping at each other while trying to apologize, or I'll ask Joe to put you in separate threads! Bill |
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Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough From: M.Ted Date: 09 Dec 02 - 10:03 AM Congratulations Marion, and, at least for my part, I was only standing in your way to strengthen your determination to get past me!;-) I have always admired your courage and persistance--which presented itself in Mudcat as the courage to ask "dumb" questions, and the persistance to get the answers you wanted, in spite of the flak-- Sadly enough, I haven't had a chance to hear you play, and can't give you any feedback on your performance, but in the many years I have spent on the fringes of the music world, I have learned the MADONNA LESSON, which is that ambition makes more difference than talent--Now go for the windmills! |
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Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough From: Marion Date: 09 Dec 02 - 03:31 PM Thanks M.Ted. Mick, you certainly haven't offended me, nor has it been my intention to offend you (I hope you realize I'm teasing you about the once vs. several thing, though I am right). I like what you said about my playing and I genuinely hope that the quality of my music is always what it's finally about for me. The thing is, what Ted calls the Madonna lesson - and what Willie-O expanded on - is a point that circumstances have really been driving home to me lately. So what you said struck me as nice but beside the point. The other thing is, since I've realized that an hour on the phone will go a lot further in getting me gigs than an hour practicing, I've been spending a lot more time on the phone and a lot less time practicing, which is bound to make anyone cranky, right? XOXOX, Mariodonna PS We did meet each other twice; besides at the Mills', we saw each other at Rick and Jed's radio show. But that time I wasn't able to stay very long, and didn't sing anything. That's probably what's confused you. |
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Subject: RE: You guys've stood in my way long enough From: Big Mick Date: 09 Dec 02 - 10:28 PM You made me laugh out loud with that "Mariodonna" signature. And give my memory a little break here. I am old and the memory doesn't work well sometimes. But I could swear you came down to the table in Rick's and sang shortly after his surgery. Beside the point, eh? To quote Rick Fielding "........when I see something intangible in another person. For what it's worth, of the thirty four folks I've taught and worked with this year, I've told two of them (naturally you were one) that if they wanted to earn their living with music exclusively they could. Of the remaining thirty two, there are some pretty fine musicians, and a few folks with great potential. But still.....there've been only two who I think don't NEED a day job.....yup, it's the intangibles. If I have to be wrong, that is great company to be wrong in..........hahahahaha. I don't think we really are disagreeing. You are speaking of the business end, and I am speaking of the performing end. I am not speaking of practice, but your way of interpretation. Anyway, I can't wait to see you again, and hear you perform. Or maybe we should just go to the corner and do some illegal busking together. XOXOXOXOXOXO right back atcha, Mick |
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