BS: Just seen it - WOW! (Three guesses)

Subject: BS: Just seen it - WOW! (Three guesses)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Dec 02 - 06:29 PM

What do you think? I have just got back from the cinema. I wanted to go back for the 11:15 showing but I am too late. Maybe tomorrow...

364 days to go for the next and counting.

Bear in mind, these are only first impressions but WOW, GOSH, GOBSMACKED, (insert your own superlative) etc etc.

And I think I'll change my name.

Cheers

Dave the Dwarf

Subject: RE: BS: Just seen it - WOW! (Three guesses)
From: Alice
Date: 18 Dec 02 - 06:33 PM

My son went last night to the Midnight showing that was meant to be for the cinema staff to view the reels and make sure they were OK.... but of course word got out and fans lined up to watch it from 12 to 3 am. I may go tonight to see it if I get all my work done. The only thing Ryan didn't like was the way the plot changed from the book when.... guess I won't give it away.

He particularly likes the Ents and hoped they would be as good as he imagined from Tolkein's description - they were.

Alice

Subject: RE: BS: Just seen it - WOW! (Three guesses)
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 18 Dec 02 - 06:33 PM

Shhh ... no more ... I'm going tomorrow night! ;o)

Subject: RE: BS: Just seen it - WOW! (Three guesses)
From: smallpiper
Date: 18 Dec 02 - 06:36 PM

me too

Subject: RE: BS: Just seen it - WOW! (Three guesses)
From: Gareth
Date: 18 Dec 02 - 06:36 PM

Careful - This could be Hobbit forming.

Gareth

Subject: RE: BS: Just seen it - WOW! (Three guesses)
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 18 Dec 02 - 08:09 PM

Gareth!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Just seen it - WOW! (Three guesses)
From: catspaw49
Date: 18 Dec 02 - 08:11 PM

Thank gawd it's not another "Songcatcher" thread..........

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Just seen it - WOW! (Three guesses)
From: Alice
Date: 18 Dec 02 - 08:15 PM

Well, my son is going back tonight to see it the second time. He said some of his friends were debating whether they were just sleep deprived from staying up til after 3am and then having to go to school, or if they were REALLY bummed about some of the "not strictly by the book" aspects. I decided to work tonight and see it later. I'm sure no matter what odd tweaks to the plot that may have been done here and there, the special effects will be awesome. We've been watching every preview released on the internet in anticipation of the real thing.

Alice

Subject: RE: BS: Just seen it - WOW! (Three guesses)
From: Mudlark
Date: 18 Dec 02 - 08:32 PM

I dont get it....after seeing the first one, I just dont get it. I'll probably be drummed out of the Frodo Lives League but it just seems like another Disney kid's movie to me...lime green grass, good-guy/bad guy themes... What am I missing???

Subject: RE: BS: Just seen it - WOW! (Three guesses)
From: Sorcha
Date: 18 Dec 02 - 08:41 PM

I was afraid it would be Songcatcher, too! And, Harry Potter 2 was my second choice. Didn't realize 2 Towers was out already!

Subject: RE: BS: Just seen it - WOW! (Three guesses)
From: BanjoRay
Date: 18 Dec 02 - 08:46 PM

Mudlark - read the books!
Ray

Subject: RE: BS: Just seen it - WOW! (Three guesses)
From: Homeless
Date: 18 Dec 02 - 08:54 PM

I'm with Mudlark on this one. I was taken out to see the one last year, and it was mediocre at best. And that's being very generous. Granted, there were a lot of special effects, but they weren't at all impressive.

No, I haven't read any of the books, but I don't think the quality of a movie should be rated by how good the book was. And even if I did read the books, why would I want to then go see a mediocre movie of the same story?

Subject: RE: BS: Just seen it - WOW! (Three guesses)
From: Art Thieme
Date: 18 Dec 02 - 10:26 PM

Frodo gave his finger for you !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(will try to see it on Saturday)

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: BS: Just seen it - WOW! (Three guesses)
From: DonMeixner
Date: 18 Dec 02 - 11:33 PM

The good guy/ bad guy thieme is bad or confusing in what way?
Haven't seen it yet so no spoilers please.
(And yes I know what I wrote and it's not a typo.)

Don

Subject: RE: BS: Just seen it - WOW! (Three guesses)
From: Mudlark
Date: 19 Dec 02 - 01:13 AM

I tried reading the books back in the 60s and was blackballed then because I didn't like them. I guess I'm just not a fantasy kinda gal, tho I've loved fairy tales all my life. As for the movie (I've only seen the first one), I thot the acting sophomoric, the story childish and the sets artificial. I would happily sit thru it with a kid who was enjoying it, but I'd rather watch a John Sayles movie for myself.

Subject: RE: BS: Just seen it - WOW! (Three guesses)
From: Cluin
Date: 19 Dec 02 - 01:23 AM

Hey, I liked Songcatcher.

Subject: RE: BS: Just seen it - WOW! (Three guesses)
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 19 Dec 02 - 02:16 AM

Ironic that you feel the sets artificial - if you watch the extras on the extended DVD for Fellowship - they actually built Hobbiton proper. They found a valley with a suitable party tree in NZ, made housefronts and gardens, and then waited almost a year for it to look properly grown and lived in.

I hope to be able to see it during Christmas week. I'm also looking forward to seeing Ents, but maybe I should lay off the pints of Baileys....

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Just seen it - WOW! (Three guesses)
From: mouldy
Date: 19 Dec 02 - 02:17 AM

Hopefully going on Saturday if I can get the tickets booked. I have to wait until then because my husband's not back from abroad until Friday, and he says he wants to go too.

How's this for a hard-luck story: my daughter's best friend entered (and won) a competition on local radio for 2 tickets to the London premiere and the cast party, but because they are under 18, her friend had to take her mum instead! Still, the mobile phone was red-hot that night, and Orlando Bloom wasn't there, which eased the pain a little bit for Ruth. (Mind you, the thought of those two let loose at a bash like that did make me quail somewhat!)

We've bought the new soundtrack CD and are awaiting the release of the "dots" so that she can play the Two Towers on the piano along with the Fellowship score. She thinks the Two Towers music is even better than the first.

Andrea

Subject: RE: BS: Just seen it - WOW! (Three guesses)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Dec 02 - 05:00 AM

My OPINION is that this is the best film I have ever seen. Sorry if this stirs up people who did not like it or thought it was childish or artificial or boring or whatever. Remember these are peoples tastes that we are talking about. There are lots of things I don't like but out of respect for other peoples tastes and sensibilities I won't mention them.

If it makes you feel any better to slag off what other people enjoy please feel free to do so, but remember the old saying. If you can't say something good, don't say anything.

Cheers

Dave (still the Dwarf) :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Just seen it - WOW! (Three guesses)
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Dec 02 - 07:27 AM

I have to wait until after Christmas to go see it.:(
                      mmm

Subject: RE: BS: Just seen it - WOW! (Three guesses)
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 19 Dec 02 - 08:37 AM

Hi, Dave: haven't seen the movie yet, but I wait in great anticipation... just watched Fellowship of the Ring on DVD and liked it even better than the first time. And who was that wise old spirit who said "If you can't say something good, don't say anything at all?" Why, it was the Mother of one of my great childhood action heroes. Thumper. :-)

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Just seen it - WOW! (Three guesses)
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 19 Dec 02 - 09:28 AM

Linda and I forward to seeing "The Two Towers" as well. We've just re-watched "The Fellowship of the Ring" on the extended DVD and it still seems great. I hope that there are no major plot changes - I don't mind the fact that it has to be streamlined - or even the fact that part 1 left out my favorite character - Tom Bombardil.

Subject: RE: BS: Just seen it - WOW! (Three guesses)
From: Rustic Rebel
Date: 19 Dec 02 - 09:42 AM

I just watched the fellowship last week for the first time and loved it. (Starz is running it right now) So when they ran it again I watched it a second time. (and probably again if I get a chance!)
Now I will have to see them all. I thought the set was great.
I might have to go to the theater to see this, can't wait a year for it to come on t.v.!
Rustic

Subject: RE: BS: Just seen it - WOW! (Three guesses)
From: Mr Red
Date: 19 Dec 02 - 10:47 AM

I once saw a badge that bore the slogan "Bored of the Rings" in NZ of all places. Wish I had bought it!

Ducks and runs for cover......................

Subject: RE: BS: Just seen it - WOW! (Three guesses)
From: Amergin
Date: 19 Dec 02 - 11:06 AM

there's a book called bored of the rings....done by harvard lampoon...pretty funny.

Subject: RE: BS: Just seen it - WOW! (Three guesses)
From: GUEST,Sarah
Date: 19 Dec 02 - 11:10 AM

Saw it last night - came out feeling quite shell-shocked.

Read a review today that likened 2Ts to "Saving Private Ryan with Darth Vader costumes". Kind of agree with that. It was brilliantly done but not comfortable viewing.

Loved it anyway. Specially Viggo and whoever that guy was that played Faramir!

Cheers
Sarah

Subject: RE: BS: Just seen it - WOW! (Three guesses)
From: Peg
Date: 19 Dec 02 - 11:18 AM

love the first one and wanted to see the DVD version in preparation for Two Towers this week. i hope to go to a matinee tomorrow!!!
peg

Subject: RE: BS: Just seen it - WOW! (Three guesses)
From: Hollowfox
Date: 19 Dec 02 - 11:22 AM

Mudlark, Homeless, et al, I thoroughly agree with you that everybody's entitled to their opinion, and folk dhould be allowed to not go ga-ga over something that everybody else is nuts about. I laso think it proper for you to post to this thread.
That being said, Toy're absolutely right, Dave the, er, gnomic Dwarf. I think this is the second part of the best movie I've ever seen. The craftmanship and attention to detail just blow me away when I think about them, much less watch the film (again). Mary the FanGirl

Subject: RE: BS: Just seen it - WOW! (Three guesses)
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 19 Dec 02 - 11:51 AM

I'm in the midst of reveling in a book called The Lord of the Rings; The Art of The Fellowship of the Ring. It's filled with the paintings and drawings that went into the design and actual creation of sets (real and computer generated), the costumes, the jewelry, the armory, the creatures.

It's interesting that in many cases there were/would be no sets built, and the actors did their stuff in front of a blue screen, and computer sets were added. Hobbiton was built "real", yes. Indeed, it was built a year or so in advance of when it would be needed, so that sodded roofs and so forth could grow in by the time of filming.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Just seen it - WOW! (Three guesses)
From: allanwill
Date: 19 Dec 02 - 11:57 AM

I dunno'- all these computerised "special effects" in movies these days. If I wanted to watch cartoons, give me Bugs Bunny any day.

Allan

Subject: RE: BS: Just seen it - WOW! (Three guesses)
From: Ron Olesko
Date: 19 Dec 02 - 11:59 AM

If you don't want special effects, you read the book! Nothing wrong with that. How would they make such a film without effects?

Subject: RE: BS: Just seen it - WOW! (Three guesses)
From: allanwill
Date: 19 Dec 02 - 12:30 PM

The "movie" that's playing in your head as you read a book is always going to be the best version, IMHO.

As for special effects in movies, I guess it's a matter of whether you prefer a not-so-real (surreal?) visual impact or rely on actors, directors, production values to engender the right emotion that the film is trying to project.

Allan

Subject: RE: BS: Just seen it - WOW! (Three guesses)
From: Homeless
Date: 19 Dec 02 - 01:51 PM

Dave the (One of Indeterminate Race but Short Stature)-
I didn't mean to sound like I was trying to invalidate your opinion in my above post. Nor was I trying to be mean or slandering in my saying it was a mediocre movie. That's just my honest opinion.

I realize I'm among the minority in this world with my lukewarm reception. When I find myself in that position on any subject, my reaction is to try to understand "Why?" I honestly do want to know why the vast majority thinks this (these) movie(s) is so great. Any time I've said anything to any raver, the only response I've gotten is "read the book." I'm sorry, but to me, the book being good should have no bearing whatsoever in how the movie is rated. Any intelligent explanation that anyone could give me on why this movie is good that is not just a variation of "read the book" would not only be invited, but encouraged.

As for my "...don't say anything", while I usually try to live my life by that proverb, if I were to remain silent all the time I would never be able to resolve any quandries of this nature. Yes?

So, can you (or anyone else) explain to me why this is such a good movie?

Homeless.

Subject: RE: BS: Just seen it - WOW! (Three guesses)
From: Ron Olesko
Date: 19 Dec 02 - 01:57 PM

Allan, you are right, the movie in the mind is always the best.

As for the celluloid version, I think that the more realistic the effect, the easier it is for a viewer to be drawn into the film. I do see your point though, I thought that the Star Wars films were nothing more then puppet shows. The fuzzy and obviously fake characters really took away from my enjoyment of the film, not that I found much to enjoy in those anyway. I'm not a big science fiction or fantasy film fan, but I do think that LOTR is really a good piece of cinema. Grab a box of popcorn and sit back. I like the DVD of Fellowship, but I am glad that they didn't release the "directors cut" special edition as the regular feature.   While it may play well for Tolkien fans, it really added nothing to the story and made it a tedious experience. Jackson did a superb job of editing for theatrical release. My son and I will be watching Two Towers on Saturday.

Ron

Subject: RE: BS: Just seen it - WOW! (Three guesses)
From: alanabit
Date: 19 Dec 02 - 02:09 PM

Couldn't agree with you more Ron. The great thing about the Fellowship film was that it actually added something to the movie I had in my mind. I can't wait to see the Two Towers next week.

Subject: RE: BS: Just seen it - WOW! (Three guesses)
From: allanwill
Date: 19 Dec 02 - 02:13 PM

Ron

Enjoy the movie.

Allan

Subject: RE: BS: Just seen it - WOW! (Three guesses)
From: Ron Olesko
Date: 19 Dec 02 - 02:25 PM

Homeless, I agree with you on your points about dragging the book into the comparision. I abhor the statment "the book was better than the movie" or vice versa.   While I may enjoy eating pizza more than ice cream, I will have different reasons and needs to satisfy for ordering each and I can't compare them.   You are looking at the vision of the author in the book and the vision of the director in the movie. They do not, nor should they, match.

As to why someone said "don't say anything", I think the point was that unless someone has a constructive reason for not likeing something, they shouldn't say anything.   Too often people just like to see their words in print and hope to stir up a reaction.   You did however give a one reason for not liking it (effects).   However your estimate of "weren't all impressive" and "mediocre" are simply your opinions. You are certainly entitled to them. I felt the effects were as impressive as they needed to be - subtle and realistic.   

You also requested that someone explain why this is a good movie. Aside from stirring up arguements, it is a pointless exercise.   I loved the movie because of the beautiful sets, the acting (which I thought was perfect for the material), and the story.   My reasons for finding those elements enjoyable are purely my own taste, and it is obvious that your tastes differ. That is not a problem for me. That is why we have 100+ channels on cable TV. Variety and diversity.

Ron

Subject: RE: BS: Just seen it - WOW! (Three guesses)
From: Jeri
Date: 19 Dec 02 - 03:06 PM

I haven't seen the second. I liked the first a lot, but I didn't love it. Eye candy, good casting, and the story was, well, THE story. It might grow on me if I saw it again. I do think that some disappointments might have existed because folks who'd read the books knew loose ends would be tied up in future movies. At the end, I was thinking "that's it?" There are also many, many details that have to be left out when a film is made from a book such as this. Sometimes they choose to not include things that are really needed for the story to make sense. Maybe that happened with this movie? I don't know - I'm just speculating. I haven't read the books either although I started at least 4 times. I DID, however, see the South Park "take off" on it before I saw FotR.

I'll see the Two Towers.

Subject: RE: BS: Just seen it - WOW! (Three guesses)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 19 Dec 02 - 03:13 PM

Gonna see TTT the night we pull into the hometown for X-mas... I'm looking forward to it...

For me Fellowship was the Good Parts version of Lord Of The Rings that I've been waiting on for years and years... I liked it better than I've like the book ever since it was brought to my attention exactly how overcrafted, overlong, and undercharcterised the book is... It's a good thing Ol' JRR came first in the "High Fantasy" genre, cause if he hadn't, he never woulda got far...

Subject: RE: BS: Just seen it - WOW! (Three guesses)
From: Naemanson
Date: 19 Dec 02 - 03:42 PM

Mudlark, Homeless, have you heard the whole explanation of the two levels the story is working on? I'm wondering if that would help.

Level 1: Adventure story - Gang of people, varying races, goes out to accomplish the impossible while facing improbable odds.

Level 2: Tragedy of Loss and Endings - No matter what happens the world as it was known by the characters is going to change. And the main character (Frodo) loses everything including any chance at happiness.

But then there are always those who just aren't turned on by this kind of thing.

But I am and I can't wait to see this film! I'll see it this weekend and then again on January 4 with my kids and some friends. We will have an LOTR day, by watching the extended version of the Fellowship and then going to see TTT in the theater.

Subject: RE: BS: Just seen it - WOW! (Three guesses)
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 19 Dec 02 - 03:42 PM

Saw it last night. When I read the trilogy years ago, I always thought of The Two Towers as the one you sort of have to slog through to get from the enchanting Fellowship to the grand finale of Return of the King. The movies so far have struck me the same way. I liked Fellowship better, but it has more to do with the content than the execution. The execution is fine in both movies. It's not the director's fault that the Plains of Rohan just aren't as cool to me as the Mines of Moria.

It's been too long since I read the books to know whether or not something was left out. All I can remember is the important parts and the movie seemed to hit them all. My wife has never read the books and she just didn't get some of it. (But she also plays bodhran so she ain't right to start with.)   

The Gollum/Smeagol portrayal was worth the price of admission.

Bruce

Subject: RE: BS: Just seen it - WOW! (Three guesses)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Dec 02 - 04:24 PM

No offense taken, Homeless. I was just pointing out what someone said earlier - If you can't say anything good, don't say anything at all.

'Mediocre' 'Another Disney Kids film' etc. is not good. It is just criticism.

'I thought it was mediocre because...' Is also criticism but can be constructive. This is good.

I am happy to provide an explanation of why I thought it was good. Superb acting. Magnificent sets. Spectacilar effects. Wonderful story. But, again, all these are subjective rather than objective. So I am not realy helping. Let me know how I can objectively define the beauty of a film, book, song, or person and you are certainly a better man than I am Gungadin!

Why do I like some music and dislike others I'm afraid it's simply down to 'Because I do. Because these are my tastes. Because these things make me what I am.'

I fully understand that not everyone has the same tastes as me and I try and do them the courtesy of explaining that it is not my 'cup of tea'. Just because I don't like it, or perhaps don't understand it (as I don't with Jazz music) I would never dream of calling it bad, poor or even mediocre. I would like people to offer me the same courtesy.

Having said all that I never intended this thread to become contraversial but now it has it is becoming quite enjoyable. I can now add to the films endearing qualities 'Causes enjoyable debate'

Good luck and may the things you love never fall foul of the critics pen..;-)

Dave the Diminutive (Love it) :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Just seen it - WOW! (Three guesses)
From: Homeless
Date: 19 Dec 02 - 05:26 PM

Dave tD -
Too late, most of what I love has fallen foul of the critic's pen - tho that may tell you something of my tastes. *g*

Believe it or not, on my first post I was trying to "don't say anything." Yes, I could have commented on elaborate sets being incredibly detailed, but that any given shot didn't give you long enough to appreciate the scenery, or that I found the use of wide angle lenses on the cameras very distracting (even tho I understand why they had to use them.) Rather than give a long list of criticisms, I tried to cut it short and express my opinion and deliberatly avoid saying anything "bad". I guess I made a mistake in doing so this time.

...why I thought it was good. Superb acting. Magnificent sets. Spectacilar effects. Wonderful story.
Okay, this very much explains to me why you think it's a great movie. And part of it is a matter of tastes. While I could debate each of these points with you, which would be fruitless, I can at least now understand why you like it so much. What is still beyond me tho is that the difference between the number of people who do like it and those that don't is just so overwhelming. There have been "great" movies and "bad", but usually you don't see quite so large an imbalance in those that liked it and those that didn't.

I can understand things being not my cup of tea. Most of society fits in that category for me personally. However, I can appreciate things I don't like (such as some forms of Jazz), and there are some things I like that go against my tastes - I guess I have to be "in a mood" for them. But for me to appreciate something I don't like, I have to understand why it *is* someone else's cup of tea.

As far as movies go, there are some I like that had zero literary or emotional content. Some movies I didn't like, but they moved me deeply. Some I didn't care for, but could appreciate the literary aspects of them (character development, plot, setting, etc.). This movie didn't strike me well on any of those fronts. I can see now that at least some of it was a matter of taste rather than some hidden point I was missing.

I do have one question for you tho - given just this one movie, would you still consider it a wonderful story if you had not read any of the books beforehand?

Homeless.

Subject: RE: BS: Just seen it - WOW! (Three guesses)
From: smallpiper
Date: 19 Dec 02 - 05:27 PM

I've just seen the Two tower and was almost copletely blown away by it. I thought that some of the changes unneccessary but never the less was totally taken out of my own reality for 3 hours and to me it was worth it just for that alone. I will be going to see it again to catch all the bits I missd on first viewing and I can hardly wait untill the extended DVD is released (if it is and I hope t will be)

Subject: RE: BS: Just seen it - WOW! (Three guesses)
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 19 Dec 02 - 05:31 PM

Haven't seen it yet, but I plan to, probably next week. I can't stand seeing movies in a crowded theater, and last time I went to a movie I had to sit in front of two flatulent Russian pigs, so I'll wait for a weeknight not on opening week. Looks good. Can't wait for the real version on dvd next year.

---Lepus Rex

Subject: RE: BS: Just seen it - WOW! (Three guesses)
From: Ron Olesko
Date: 19 Dec 02 - 05:40 PM

Homeless, I would like to answer your question - "given just this one movie, would you still consider it a wonderful story if you had not read any of the books beforehand?"   I would answer, yes.   I had read The Hobbit and found 3/4 of the book captivating, and the last 1/4 rather contrived and anti-climatic in comparision to the rest of the book.

I found the theatrical release of Fellowship to be a wonderful film - I don't think I would call it a classic, but to me it is an enjoyable film that I have watched a few times (once in the theater and several times at home with my son).

I was also inspired to buy the special edition DVD with over 30 additional minutes of film. On one hand I thought it answered some questions and expanded on a few plot points and characters, but overall I thought it made the film drag and I really don't think critics and audiences would have responded as warmly if that were the intial release.

Ron

Subject: RE: BS: Just seen it - WOW! (Three guesses)
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 19 Dec 02 - 06:13 PM

I disagree with your thoughts on the FoTR dvd, Ron. I wish it had been longer. The whole trip to Bree, with Farmer Maggot, Old Man Willow, the Barrow Downs, and of course Tom Bombadil, etc, is missing, but was an important part of the book. I don't mind some of Jackson's changes, but these omissions were a bit too much for me. Grr. Still, loved FoTR.

---Lepus Rex

Subject: RE: BS: Just seen it - WOW! (Three guesses)
From: Nerd
Date: 19 Dec 02 - 06:17 PM

I just saw Two Towers and it was better than I had expected. I was worried, because Peter Jackson has publicly commented that this is an action movie, that he deliberately departed from the story of the book, etc. This worried me, and I see what he meant --there's a McGuffin in which Aragorn gets separated from the rest of the party for no real reason, Faramir acts very differently from his character in the book and indeed destroys one of Tolkien's points in the process, and there is an extraneous visit to a beleaguered Osgiliath--but none of this really detracts too much from the movie. They had to insert Arwen and Galadriel as well, to which no one who appreciates beauty can object.

What is actually done better than a literal rendering of the book is the intercutting of the two storylines which in the novel were separated into Book 1 and Book 2. This allows for the stupendously-rendered battle of Helm's Deep to act as one of the butt-kickingest climactic fight scenes in movie history.

As to the acting, I just can't understand how someone could see Viggo Mortensen's Aragorn and Ian McKellen's Gandalf in that light. Granted, the humor in the first movie was rather broad, and Merry and Pippin were pains in the ass, but surely Christopher Lee and Cate Blanchett made up for that!

As to characterization, I'm happy to say that an improvement on the first movie has been made: Merry and Pippin cease to be stupid buffoons who cause every setback and attack, and begin to understand what the world is coming to--which bodes well for their development into adults in the final movie. New characters Eomer, Faramir and Eowyn are very well-played, though they're all small roles. The bigger roles of Theoden and Grima Wormtongue are done brilliantly; it reminds you that Brad Doruif is a fine, fine actor despite having been stereotyped as a lunatic or weirdo ever since One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest.

I think Tolkien fans may lament at some of the plot changes, but will ultimately accept this as a great adaptation. More importantly, I think general moviegoers are more likely to enjoy this as a combination of costume epic and hard-hitting action-adventure film; it just happens to have much better acting and writing than, say, The Scorpion King.

As a final endorsement, I saw this movie with my wife (who normally goes with me to more "intellectual" or romantic films) and my friend David (who normally goes with me to action movies). They never like the same films, but this time all three of us thought it was one of the best movies we've seen in a long time!

Subject: RE: BS: Just seen it - WOW! (Three guesses)
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Dec 02 - 06:45 PM

Dunno, Homeless. I have never been an accademic and therefore fail to see the relevance of accademic questions! I read the Hobbit, Lord of the Rings, Silmarilion, Book of lost tales and many others before the films were thought of so how can I answer? I enjoyed the books. I liked Ralph Bakshis cartoon. I think Peter Jackson is a god:-)

I equaly enjoyed the works of Conan Doyle, John Steinbeck, C S Forester and Dr Seuss all before seeing any films stemming from those pens. Films I enjoyed include Goldfinger, The Maltese Falcon, Conan the Barbarian and Captain Correllis Mandolin all before reading the books!

I have seen hundreds of films and read, probably, thousands of books. The two media (medii? mediums?) are entirely different and should and can be enjoyed on different levels.

Incidentaly I also read Homer before seeing Oh Brother where art though and read Herbert before seeing Dune. In the former case I enjoyed the film but did not understand the book. Vice Versca in the latter.

There are also many films and books that do not have a literary or cinemagraphic counterpart so back to my original point...

Why even ask?

Cheers and thanks again for keeping my brain alive!

Dave the Hobbit:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Just seen it - WOW! (Three guesses)
From: smallpiper
Date: 19 Dec 02 - 07:05 PM

Hey Lepus Rex I saw it at 3.00pm today and there was only 12 in the theatre it was great!