BS: Armistice Day (debate)

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 28 Dec 13 - 10:48 AM

If your claim is valid, Musket, may we please have a rundown {with copy-pastes for confirmation} of the 6 Mudcatters in addition to yourself whom you claim K to have denounced as liars in the past 36 hours.

I think, as they say, we should be told. They must have been pretty feeble denunciations -- I for one have not the least recollection of any of them.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Dec 13 - 11:02 AM

36 hours is still a lie.
Why do you do it Musket?
Is it a compulsion?
Should we pity you?

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 28 Dec 13 - 11:21 AM

Sure thing Michael.

www.mudcat.org

You will find it all there.

Sorry I don't do cut and paste unless I feel it relevant. I use Mudcat.org for debate rather than top trumps.

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 28 Dec 13 - 12:10 PM

Oh, wow, Musket. Now that is certainly definitive. I am entirely convinced by the incomparable conclusiveness of your arguments; and so are my cat Cleo and my wife's admirable collection of Teddy Bears, Jemima, Juniper, Roo, Sophie, Jersey, & Emmie, with one Panda called Pandora. How could any of us ever have doubted the entire veracity of every assertion you have ever promulgated on this site!

Kamerad! Kamerad!

teeheeheeheeheehee...

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 28 Dec 13 - 02:50 PM

What isn't widely known is that Kipling was very pointedly referring to Members of Parliament who before the war had denied there was any need for greater defense appropriations or a better equipped British Army.

Kipling's son John was killed on his first day of action. Kipling, who was neither a fool nor a dupe nor a profiteer, continued to support the Allied war effort to the end.

According to Oxford historian Margaret MacMillan:

"The wartime generals were not all cowards and incompetents as Alan Clark argued in his infamous 'The Donkeys' (1961). ... And was the war just a dreadful mistake or was it about something? ... It is condescending and wrong to think they were hoodwinked. British soldiers felt they were fighting for their country and its values."

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Dec 13 - 05:42 PM

British soldiers felt they were fighting for their country and its values, wrong though they may have been.

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Dec 13 - 06:01 PM

Why were they wrong Greg?

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Dec 13 - 01:46 AM

You said, Dec 3, 2pm,
So you actually believe Germany had a snowball's chance in hell of invading occupying and taking over the British Isles?

Invasion was recognised as a serious threat in 1914, and many regiments were deployed to meet it.

page 125
"In 1914, invasion preparations and home defence measures were taken all along the east coast of Britain, from Scotland to Sussex.
While the authorities tried to keep these preparations out of the public eye-to avoid scaremongering, people witnessed them, stoking fear and anxiety.
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=lVK0SSmvD5wC&pg=PA125&lpg=PA125&dq=invasion+preparation+1914&source=bl&ots=qPt2tdhG9V&sig=JIZ

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Dec 13 - 03:07 AM

Wasn't Alan Clark right wing enough for you then Keith?

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Dec 13 - 07:12 AM

The one thing we don't know or understand is how people thought then. Watching old newsreels of the pals regiments being formed the patriotism the people had we can't start to understand. The belief that the viscous Hun was about to arrive on our shores drove people on to protect their families. Some people saw it as a great adventure. People still join the forces today arguably more informed that our ancestors and still suffer the ravages of war and conflicts. No matter how you view it, how you discuss it, still a sad loss of life.
Keith

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Dec 13 - 07:17 AM

Yes Keith.
The scale of the losses almost incomprehensible.
First Guest, I am not Right Wing, and what has politics to do with it anyway?

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: selby
Date: 29 Dec 13 - 09:07 AM

07:12 guest was me had been signed out.
Keith

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Dec 13 - 12:30 PM

"I am right of centre."

"I read what the historians wrote."

Keith A of Hertford.

Lighter notes The Donkeys (1961) by leading historian the late Alan Clark. His post was, to most people reading this thread in bemusement an example of how later historians are dismissing the work of credible historians such as Clark.

I asked the question in a mocking sense, as your stance is absurd. As many here are pointing out.

Do you have actual thoughts on the war, based on the copious amount of reading you have done? Any fruits of your efforts?

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Dec 13 - 12:42 PM

I am centre-right, the majority position here.
That puts me well to the left of most US Democrats.
My stance?
Absurd?
I read the History.
There is now a consensus on the issues we have discussed.
I would not be such an arrogant fool to believe it to be all wrong and me right.

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: GUEST,Musket finding his brown shirt
Date: 29 Dec 13 - 04:44 PM

Are you sure centre right is the majority position here?

For every wannabe Farage we have a few armchair socialists.

As your reputation as Mr Logic is fairly established, what does centre right mean? What figures do you have to substantiate your claim ? Or are you making it up again ?

If it means sharing your take on society, I must be a raving tree hugger peering out of my yurt. Note to self. Pick up a copy of The Guardian.

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: Greg F.
Date: 29 Dec 13 - 06:35 PM

what has politics to do with it anyway?

Jesus wept. Again.

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: GUEST,Troubadour
Date: 29 Dec 13 - 06:56 PM

"The belief that the viscous Hun was about to arrive on our shores drove people on to protect their families."

The above sentence could be a true representation of what the British public believed.

It could also be a true representation of what the German public believed about Jews in November 1938, and for the exact same reason.....................PROPAGANDA!

Remember the events of Kristalnacht?

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Dec 13 - 07:06 PM

It appals me that people can accept the effectiveness of Goebbels' propaganda in propelling Hitler to the heights of a godlike leader, yet in the next breath, deny that the same techniques had any effect on the British public in WW1.

After all, our lads wouldn't be fooled by that, being so much smarter than the Hun!

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: GUEST,Troubadour
Date: 29 Dec 13 - 07:08 PM

Last guest was me!

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 30 Dec 13 - 01:15 AM

Someone appears to be a little slow shouting liar! at the posts above?

Must be one hell of a cut and paste coming our way.

Take cover ! Incoming !




False alarm.
Still waiting.

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 30 Dec 13 - 04:43 AM

Three hours on. Keith has posted on other threads yet remains somewhat quiet here.

Can't wait to see what we have all got wrong now!

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Dec 13 - 04:48 AM

People are expressing opinions Musket.
No-one has lied.
I am not challenging anything.

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Dec 13 - 05:45 AM

University Of Leicester. Department of Politics and International Relations.
"Party competition on the centre right of British politics has intensified in the last decade, with New Labour occupying territory traditionally inhabited by the Conservative Party and the UK Independence Party (UKIP) emerging as a rival to the Conservatives on their right flank. "

http://www2.le.ac.uk/departments/politics/research/research-projects/centre-right


Can we drop the politics?

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 30 Dec 13 - 07:12 AM

Be my guest.

Fancy the dropping the liar claim you make at me



And Greg




And Jim



And anyone not commissioned by The BBC to comment on history. Subjective discussion papers by universities over the basis of your angle on matters isn't entirely useful either.

How about what Keith thinks? Is that too hard without links to opinions of others portrayed as unequivocal facts by you?

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Dec 13 - 07:55 AM

Which lie do you want to be forgiven for?

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: GUEST,Aldridge Prior, the hopeless liar
Date: 30 Dec 13 - 08:14 AM

Ooh.. I don't know Keith.

I've posted so many posts, mostly as a guest, that I don't know how many posts I need forgiving for?

Are you including everything I say or just the things that upset your preconceptions of how the world spins?

You see, to your mind, they are all lies.


zzzzzz

Subject: RE: BS: Armistice Day (debate)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Dec 13 - 08:24 AM

No.
When you posted about schoolkids cut up and fed to pigs, I asked you for details and searched for it myself.
You made it up.
It was a lie.

Likewise when you posted a "quote" and claimed it was from a non-existent site.
Google could only find your posting of it.
It was a lie.

Then you claimed that the November 2013 HPA/PHE November report on 2012 was an "interim report" and was "superseded."
None of that was true.

If you do not want to be known as a liar, stop making shit up.