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BS: Irshad Manji on the wall
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Subject: RE: BS: Irshad Manji on the wall From: GUEST,C. Ham Date: 23 Mar 06 - 05:15 PM Oh please, there are many Jews who criticize Judaism. Debate is inherent in Jewish culture. Gather together four Jewish rabbis and you might well have four different interpretations of Jewish laws and customs. If you've actually read Manji's book, not just the reviews by repressive people out to silence her, you would know that her goal is to stimulate open debate within Islamic culture. Seriously, CarolC, you should read her book. Do that and then we'll discuss. Until then, adios. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Irshad Manji on the wall From: Wolfgang Date: 23 Mar 06 - 05:21 PM Over-interpreting XXX's words as a blanket condemnation of "all" Jews is absurd considering that she, herself, is a practicing Jew. I could tell you many instances of antisemitism in Mudcat but this would be one. What do you think about the death threats against her, Carol? Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: BS: Irshad Manji on the wall From: Little Hawk Date: 23 Mar 06 - 05:21 PM "The thing about the left is that it has, in recent years, developed an orthodoxy that is every bit as repressive as the orthodoxy in the right." Absolutely. In fact, that has always been the case, not just recently. Left and Right are equally given to hypocrisy, self-serving hyperbole, and unthinking prejudice. This makes it easy for them both to find a lot to accuse the other of, and a lot to bitch about generally. You could say exactly the same of the Arabs and the Israelis. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Irshad Manji on the wall From: CarolC Date: 23 Mar 06 - 05:50 PM Adios, Guest,C. Ham! Wrong sentance, Wolfgang. But you knew that, didn't you. This is the sentence to which I was referring (with substitutions)... I hope I don't sound like a Judaism apologist when I point out that in cases like this, Judaism is not the problem; Jews are. And I think the death threats against her are reprehensible. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Irshad Manji on the wall From: CarolC Date: 23 Mar 06 - 05:51 PM And thank goodness I'm not a member of the "left". ;-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Irshad Manji on the wall From: CarolC Date: 23 Mar 06 - 05:54 PM And by the way, I've seen practicing Jews get called "anti-Semite" by other practicing Jews plenty of times. Some of them right here in the Mudcat. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Irshad Manji on the wall From: number 6 Date: 23 Mar 06 - 07:25 PM What would Irshad's reaction be if she could read this thread? sIx |
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Subject: RE: BS: Irshad Manji on the wall From: CarolC Date: 23 Mar 06 - 11:42 PM I don't know, but I wish she would. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Irshad Manji on the wall From: Wolfgang Date: 24 Mar 06 - 05:30 AM Carol, read again your 23 Mar 06 - 05:05 PM post and tell me whether you seriously believe I should have been able to guess that 'the same statement' meant one particular of many in a former post. I'm not a mind reader. But now I finally know what you are talking about I disagree. That sentence in a similar context would not be antisemitic in my eyes. Ms. Manji defends Islam against possible misinterpretations that Islam would request a patriarchal treatment of women. She fights for a more liberal and more even-handed interpretation of the Islam in her fight for women's rights. I applaud her for that. In Christianity too, there could be interpretations of the book (mulier taceat in ecclesia is one example) supporting male dominance. Liberal and not sexist interpretations of a faith based on a centuries old book don't come without a fight. She makes that fight within Islam against the literalist interpretation of the Sunni mainstream. I admire her for that. Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: BS: Irshad Manji on the wall From: CarolC Date: 24 Mar 06 - 10:17 AM Had you been following the discussion, Wolfgang, you would have known that I was quoting Ms. Manji when I said the thing Guest,C. Ham was criticizing, and as a result, you would have known that the sentence you used was not the one I was referring to. Ms. Manji is free to criticize the way Islam is practiced by some or even all of its adherents. And I am free to criticize Ms. Manji if I disagree with the way she goes about doing it. And I do. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Irshad Manji on the wall From: beardedbruce Date: 24 Mar 06 - 10:39 AM CarolC, Your last comment implies that people here are free to criticize CarolC if they disagree with the way you goes about critisizing ( whatever). That is the ad hominum attack that you have (rightfully) objected to being used against you. One should critisize the ideas that the person presents, NOT the person who presents those ideas. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Irshad Manji on the wall From: GUEST,robomatic Date: 25 Mar 06 - 08:22 AM And I find CarolC's resurrection of Martin Gibson a kind of lonely call for help. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Irshad Manji on the wall From: GUEST Date: 25 Mar 06 - 10:34 AM But it was successful in wearing down C. Ham who realized her tactic and split. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Irshad Manji on the wall From: GUEST,robomatic Date: 26 Mar 06 - 12:26 AM Thus being a resurrection of MG's tactics, he is now enshrined in CarolC. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Irshad Manji on the wall From: CarolC Date: 26 Mar 06 - 03:12 PM LOL You guys are going to have to play this game without me. I've got houseguests for a while and I don't have time. beardedbruce, I don't claim to be perfect. However, my approach in this thread has been productive, as I had hoped it would be. As you can see, there are some very interesting and potentially enlightening discussions on the subject of ad hominem arguments in this thread. So nothing is wasted. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Irshad Manji on the wall From: GUEST,robomatic Date: 26 Mar 06 - 04:41 PM Sorry to see you couldn't take the heat, after generating nothing but, Carol C. -robo |
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Subject: RE: BS: Irshad Manji on the wall From: Little Hawk Date: 26 Mar 06 - 04:51 PM Which ego will score the last damaging point? Who will rub his opponent's face in the dirt one last time? Who will achieve the final humiliation? Tune in daily for further episodes of our fascinating soap: "As the Mudcat Turns" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Irshad Manji on the wall From: CarolC Date: 26 Mar 06 - 07:10 PM Is that really you, robomatic, posting as Guest,robomatic? If so, you surprise me. Even though I have gotten used to you making only ad hominem arguments in the absence of any kind of legitimate arguments, I am surprised to see just how low you are willing to go in the form of taking nasty pot shots at people. Or maybe you're just trolling. Either way, have fun with it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Irshad Manji on the wall From: GUEST,robomatic Date: 26 Mar 06 - 09:25 PM Yeah, CarolC it IS really me. You are quite right about one thing, I purposely sent off a 'taunt' much as you did to C. Ham and have done on many other threads. I have noted your tendency to 'count coup' rather than contribute to a multilogue, as you have done in this case by trying to recast one poster (C.Ham) as another (our much 'beloved' MG). And sure enough, you said you were outta here but you just had to checked one more time. Your use of ad hominem is threefold, one you make an ad hominem attack on the person being discussed, two, you make an ad hominum attack on the poster who disagrees with your first attack, and three, you then accuse the poster of ad hominum behavior. I thnk that's a tough but honest appraisal of your actions in this and other threads, though certainly not all. It is definitely not my typical behavior, but I couldn't resist giving you the same kind of send-off you gave C.Ham. Have a nice visit with your guests, and I have a couple of flights to make and a job o'work to do. See you safely on the other end? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Irshad Manji on the wall From: CarolC Date: 26 Mar 06 - 11:40 PM What I notice about you, robomatic, is your inclination to want to psychonalyze people. As I said before on another thread, you're not qualified to do that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Irshad Manji on the wall From: CarolC Date: 26 Mar 06 - 11:47 PM Although, if I were going to engage in that sort of thing, I might suggest that you seem to have an awful lot invested in this thread, emotionally speaking. In fact, I might even suggest that you seem to be as emotionally invested in this thread as the person who started it. But I'm not qualified to make those kinds of assessments, so I won't. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Irshad Manji on the wall From: GUEST,Sigmund F. Date: 27 Mar 06 - 12:13 AM I might suggest that you seem to have an awful lot invested in this thread, emotionally speaking. In fact, I might even suggest that you seem to be as emotionally invested in this thread as the person who started it. Let's see, C. Ham, the person who started this thread made 10 posts. Robomatic, who CarolC accuses having an awful lot invested, emotionally speaking, made 7 posts. CarolC, on the other hand, has (so far) made 27 posts. It seems obvious who's really the one f***ed up over the thread. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Irshad Manji on the wall From: CarolC Date: 27 Mar 06 - 12:29 PM Possibly, |
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Subject: RE: BS: Irshad Manji on the wall From: GUEST Date: 27 Mar 06 - 02:13 PM CarolC is now up to up to 28 posts in this thread. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Irshad Manji on the wall From: GUEST Date: 27 Mar 06 - 03:51 PM Has anyone ever noticed that all threads about Israel and Palestine eventually become threads about CarolC and live on well after the specific topic has been exhausted? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Irshad Manji on the wall From: Little Hawk Date: 27 Mar 06 - 04:13 PM Well, those threads always attract pretty much the same people, and none of those people are about to just give up and walk away... I call it the Neverending Story. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Irshad Manji on the wall From: number 6 Date: 27 Mar 06 - 04:22 PM Sort of like the "Greatest Story Ever Told" ... you take it or leave it. sIx |
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Subject: RE: BS: Irshad Manji on the wall From: CarolC Date: 27 Mar 06 - 05:40 PM Has anyone ever noticed that all threads about Israel and Palestine eventually become threads about CarolC and live on well after the specific topic has been exhausted? It's astonishing, isn't it? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Irshad Manji on the wall From: GUEST Date: 27 Mar 06 - 05:54 PM CarolC is now up to up to 29 posts in this thread. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Irshad Manji on the wall From: CarolC Date: 27 Mar 06 - 06:11 PM 30! |
