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The Improper Folk Festival (Pickering, UK)
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Subject: RE: The Improper Folk Festival (PickeringUK) From: Banjiman Date: 08 Aug 08 - 04:56 AM Guys, I don't think falling out about this is doing anyone any good.... that was not my intention with this thread (it was supposed to be funny.... remember funny?). There is undoubtedly room for festivals like Pickering and Festivals like Saltburn, personally I enjoy both. It would have been preferable if they had been scheduled on different weekends. Pickering has gone, at least for this year, jury seems to be out if it was due to waterlogging or poor ticket sales......but it has gone. I'm disappointed (as are my kids who do find green field festivals easier than those in scattered indoor venues..... they get more freedom to amuse themselves), but I have no intention of slagging off Saltburn or those who attend it....I've been and enjoyed it immensely, I also count quite a few of those who are attending as my friends. I hope Saltburn is a resounding success as usual and hopefully Pickering will return next year on a different weekend.... we can then go to both! Paul |
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Subject: RE: The Improper Folk Festival (PickeringUK) From: Banjiman Date: 08 Aug 08 - 05:47 AM BTW.....I have no evidence that ticket sales were poor....just reflecting the rumours I've seen on here. Paul |
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Subject: RE: The Improper Folk Festival (PickeringUK) From: theleveller Date: 08 Aug 08 - 05:56 AM Sorry, Paul, but now I'm really angry. I had hoped that we would get away without the nasty, smug glee of the likes of Betsy and Nutty but, no, they seem determined to use an act of nature to open an old debates that, frankly, they chose to make devisive. It was they who took the, frankly, fascist attitude that Pickering had no right to exist and that people who had no desire to be bored rigid by their inane attitudes to folk music, which they insist on pushing down our throats ad infinitum whilst they pick the ear-wax from under their fingernails, could actually gain pleasure from attenting a different festival to theirs. Why is it that people like that hate the idea of others enjoying themselves in a manner different to theirs. How can they live with such a hateful outlook? Do they have so little experience of real life that they think their little island is the only one that has a right to exist? Quite honestly, I have no desire to be in the company of people like that - life's too short. I hope Saltburn is a great success and that those who attend enjoy it. Why could they not have had the good grace and good manners to wish Pickering the same? |
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Subject: RE: The Improper Folk Festival (PickeringUK) From: nutty Date: 08 Aug 08 - 06:12 AM People like what? ..... you are the one who is trying to pick a fight and whose attitude has been objectionable throughout. I merely expressed a personal opinion which you took exception to. It's you who have a big problem .... just don't take your frustrations out on me. |
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Subject: RE: The Improper Folk Festival (PickeringUK) From: nutty Date: 08 Aug 08 - 06:18 AM - and as for me questioning the experience of the Pickering management (which I admit to doing) it appears that I may have been justified. |
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Subject: RE: The Improper Folk Festival (PickeringUK) From: Banjiman Date: 08 Aug 08 - 06:33 AM Nutty, Not wishing to fan the flames.....but what dealings have you had with the Pickering management? Mine have been quite extensive, they have been nothing but professional, pleasant, responsive, generous and they are clearly experienced in running succesful events. They have even handled the cancellation in a thoroughly professional manner....... they have phoned eveyone who was booked or had bought tickets and let them know personally that it was cancelled. They have also promised everyone a full refund. I believe the weather is probably outside their control........ I don't believe that they deserve your stinging criticism. Please stop. Paul |
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Subject: RE: The Improper Folk Festival (PickeringUK) From: nutty Date: 08 Aug 08 - 06:48 AM I agree Paul ..... they have vast experience of running country fairs - steam rallies and the like but to my knowledge they had never run a Folk Festival. This is really just taking is round in circles - If you re-read the first thread you'll find we are back at the beginning. I have my opinion - you have yours. Hope to see you at Saltburn |
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Subject: RE: The Improper Folk Festival (PickeringUK) From: theleveller Date: 08 Aug 08 - 07:57 AM "People like what? ..... you are the one who is trying to pick a fight and whose attitude has been objectionable throughout." Er...how do you work that out? I'm not the one who has hijacked this thread to take delight in the fact that hunderds of people have been deprived of an enjoyable weekend listening to the music that they choose to, in an environment that suits them and at a time that's convenient to them. But I don't expect your perverted outlook on life would be able to see that. Maybe you should take your head out of the sand now and again. |
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Subject: RE: The Improper Folk Festival (PickeringUK) From: theleveller Date: 08 Aug 08 - 08:00 AM Just had an improper folk festival here at home - listening to The Waterboys whilst doing the ironing and having a beer. Brilliant therapy. Anyone mind if I bring my ironing board to Osmotherley? |
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Subject: RE: The Improper Folk Festival (PickeringUK) From: nutty Date: 08 Aug 08 - 09:07 AM I do not take delight in such happenings .... I'm as sad as you are that so many people have missed out - particularly the artists. It's just that I'm not pretending to be suprised. |
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Subject: RE: The Improper Folk Festival (PickeringUK) From: GUEST,Betsy at Work Date: 08 Aug 08 - 09:13 AM Nutty , forget it, and get ready for a lovely weekend in Saltburn. I really look forward to seeing you. Cheers Betsy |
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Subject: RE: The Improper Folk Festival (PickeringUK) From: theleveller Date: 08 Aug 08 - 03:05 PM I sincerely hope it is. |
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Subject: RE: The Improper Folk Festival (PickeringUK) From: Tim Leaning Date: 08 Aug 08 - 04:42 PM Told you there there was no such thing as fun with some on here mate. Got a load of shite from the same parties last year for mentioning a music do that they though somehow detracted from the one they favour. Oh well Bless you all and keep safe |
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Subject: RE: The Improper Folk Festival (PickeringUK) From: Dennis the Elder Date: 08 Aug 08 - 05:07 PM Hi Ray, Nutty and all, I have had a few years experience working for the management at Pickering at many functions and will, when I return to England in about ten days do my best to tell you the reasons for the cancellation. At this moment in time I believe to be the weather as stated by the management. I know from personal experience rain has been a serious problem on many occasions in the past for health and safety reasons. |
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Subject: RE: The Improper Folk Festival (PickeringUK) From: Mrs Banjiman Date: 09 Aug 08 - 08:24 AM In the spirit in which this thread was initiated...I reckon an "improper" folk festival needs to have lots of electronic keyboards featuring throughout the performances of traditional songs (just to really wind the other half up!!!), it should be compulsary to enter and leave the singaround while the singer is at a particularly vital and moving part of their song, and all children will be given an item of percussion when issued with their wristband to be used at all times - day or night! |
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Subject: RE: The Improper Folk Festival (PickeringUK) From: Snuffy Date: 09 Aug 08 - 08:43 AM So you've been to Blitherscrum then, Mrs B! |
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Subject: RE: The Improper Folk Festival (PickeringUK) From: theleveller Date: 09 Aug 08 - 03:33 PM How about sticking your finger in someone else's ear while you're singing? |
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Subject: RE: The Improper Folk Festival (PickeringUK) From: GUEST Date: 11 Aug 08 - 05:56 AM Nutty, I am one of the Pickering festival team and take great exception to you questioning my ability to put together a folk festival. Do you honestly believe that the atrocious weather that caused us to cancel our event had anything to do with our ability to stage it? If you do believe this then perhaps you are more bitter and twisted than you appear. The Events Office team are mortified that this decision HAD to be made. Not only for ourselves but also for the many artists, traders, caterers and ticket-buying customers that this decision affected. For all of those people we are truly sorry. Unlike yourself who seems to be delighted. For my part, I have spent nine months planning this event on behalf of The Events Office and to see all my hard work unravelled in just 24 hours is heart-breaking. I hope that I will be asked to do this again in 2009 and I can assure you all that, if it does happen, Pickering Folk Festival will come bouncing back as just an impressive event in the festival calendar as it was in 2008. Many thanks
-Joe Offer, Forum Moderator- |
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Subject: RE: The Improper Folk Festival (PickeringUK) From: Paul Burke Date: 11 Aug 08 - 06:28 AM Can someone explain for outside parties why Heartburn and Bickering folk festival supporters find it necessary to insult each other in public, rather than as consenting adults in private? As they are 25+ miles apart, and appear to address different audiences, it can't be that they are worried about saturation, so what is it? |
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Subject: RE: The Improper Folk Festival (PickeringUK) From: George Papavgeris Date: 11 Aug 08 - 06:37 AM I think it's love - they just haven't realised it yet. |
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Subject: RE: The Improper Folk Festival (Pickering, UK) From: Santa Date: 11 Aug 08 - 11:01 AM Different audiences? I don't understand that one. Excuse a serious response, but there were acts at Pickering I'd love to have seen, and 25 miles is pretty close for simultaneous festivals, in my book. I did consider that a quick dash over the moors to catch Bella Hardy would not be unreasonable - as long as she didn't clash with the Wilsons, of course. |
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Subject: RE: The Improper Folk Festival (Pickering, UK) From: GUEST,Betsy at Work Date: 11 Aug 08 - 12:01 PM Paul and Santa - maybe you haven't followed the story. I think many people from The Saltburn Festival would have liked to see some of the attractive line up at Pickering.(Whether they could afford tickets for 2 Festivals is another matter). Pickering has never held a Folk Festival before, and the dates it chose to organise it's first one, was the same weekend as the established Saltburn Folk Festival. The effects of the clash in dates are well documented in this thread. If Pickering has the expertise and management which it claims, then it appeared to some that it was an extraordinary decision to choose the same weekend as an established festival some 25 miles away. The rest is history. |
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Subject: RE: The Improper Folk Festival (Pickering, UK) From: nutty Date: 11 Aug 08 - 01:10 PM I had decided to ignore this thread but as people who do not know me continue to attack me personally (GUEST 5.56AM) I feel the need to reply. I have never attacked the management of the Events Office personally or their ability to organise a Folk Festival - only their decision regarding the date but as they were filling the only available date in their calendar if/when it happens in the future it is likely to continue to clash with Saltburn. As for the cancellation - we are told that this event had been on the cards for 9 months yet the publicity only appeared a few weeks before it actually happened rather late to attract the thousands expected. Most folkies I know have their festival calendar organised by early Spring. The ground itself had been flooded the previous weekend - the steam rally (organised by The Events Office?) but pumps had been used to make the event viable - was this not also possible on the Festival weekend or were there financial considerations at work. And if such an problem raised so many Health and Safety issueds that cancellation was neccessary then perhaps (given the English Summer) this was not the best venue for the folk festival. When you organise an event you can expect to be criticised if things don't happen - particularly when you are (as you maintain) an experienced management organisation. I have attended Folk Festivals for over 30 years and have camped on green field sites but have never known a festival be cancelled because of rain. |
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Subject: RE: The Improper Folk Festival (Pickering, UK) From: nutty Date: 11 Aug 08 - 01:20 PM before I'm corrected - It was a Traction Engine Rally that was held on the Showground not a steam rally and it was organised by the Events Office. |
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Subject: RE: The Improper Folk Festival (Pickering, UK) From: Banjiman Date: 11 Aug 08 - 01:53 PM Nutty, You had no intention of going.....why go on about it? You had the weekend you intended to have, why is this bothering you so much? From what has been posted on here, Saltburn was as succesful as ever (and probably would have been whether or not Pickering went ahead), venues were packed apparently.......why should you care? I just don't understand. Paul |
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Subject: RE: The Improper Folk Festival (Pickering, UK) From: nutty Date: 11 Aug 08 - 02:05 PM You were not the one being personally attacked Paul. When someone I have never met or who fails to disclose him/her self calls me "bitter and twisted". Then I feel I need to reply as I'm sure you would given the same circumstances. |
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Subject: RE: The Improper Folk Festival (Pickering, UK) From: nutty Date: 11 Aug 08 - 02:08 PM Had the lady/gentleman concerned bothered to join this forum - then such a conversation could have been carried out via the 'personal message' facility. |
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Subject: RE: The Improper Folk Festival (Pickering, UK) From: Banjiman Date: 11 Aug 08 - 02:18 PM Nutty, No, and I didn't launch a personal attack on you. I asked you politely why Pickering has bothered you so much.... your attack on the festival started long before the anonymous guest post to which you refer. I really would appreciate an answer, PM me if you'd rather..... I'm not trying to cause an argument, I just don't understand the basis of your sustained attack when it had no impact on you or how you choose to spend your time. Or am I missing something? Thanks Paul |
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Subject: RE: The Improper Folk Festival (Pickering, UK) From: nutty Date: 11 Aug 08 - 02:41 PM Paul ..... this is now into 3 threads and is becoming boring. All I have ever done is ask why the organisation chose that particular date ,,,anything else I am supposed to have said has come out of other peoples imagination. As long as people do not attack me personally I am very happy to let them get on with it. And please note out of the 79 posts to this thread I have only posted 9 times. I presume the other 70 all made comments that you agreed with. |
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Subject: RE: The Improper Folk Festival (Pickering, UK) From: Banjiman Date: 11 Aug 08 - 02:58 PM "anything else I am supposed to have said has come out of other peoples imagination." "As long as people do not attack me personally I am very happy to let them get on with it." Nutty, In that case you have my apologies...... I have to confess that is not how I have read your posts though, but that could just be me of course. If it is becoming boring, I'm more than happy to leave it, in fact I had until I read your 1.10pm post..... I should probably still have controlled myself but the (imagined) insinuation that the organisers had cancelled for reasons other than waterlogging really needed addressing. ..... and no, I don't agree with all of the other posts above..... I have stated my views where I needed to. Paul |
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Subject: RE: The Improper Folk Festival (Pickering, UK) From: Kelk Brigade Date: 11 Aug 08 - 03:10 PM Hey Guys, just returned from the other "small" festival that took place over the weekend at Cropredy. Rained every day and continuously on Saturday, but did not dampen spirits too much - buoyed up by Wadsworth 6X. Seems we missed out on nothing although the line-up at Pickering was tempting, but in the end our 26th trip to Cropredy beckoned too strongly. Hate to see good friends falling out over something that never happened, so come on Hazel and Paul, life's too short, there's always another year and then we will all know how serious Pickering are in developing a festival. Must say that they did pick a strange weekend though, and it was always going to be difficult going head to head with two such established events, still it ain't our money and they are promising to recompense ticket holders. See you both at Whitby (I hope)! Hugs Peter |
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Subject: RE: The Improper Folk Festival (Pickering, UK) From: Banjiman Date: 11 Aug 08 - 03:39 PM Peter, You are of course correct. I'm off this thread. Hope you had a good time at Cropredy.... we won't make Whitby (some of us have to work for a living and having wasted some holiday this weekend........!!!!) but I'm sure we'll see you soon. Have you seen the Osmotherley gathering schedule, should be fun? Paul |
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Subject: RE: The Improper Folk Festival (Pickering, UK) From: GUEST,Leila... Date: 11 Aug 08 - 05:12 PM I'm rather shocked reading this thread... |
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Subject: RE: The Improper Folk Festival (Pickering, UK) From: theleveller Date: 12 Aug 08 - 03:12 AM "As long as people do not attack me personally I am very happy to let them get on with it." The whole point is that you're not. All you want to do is whinge. This thread was started as a bit of fun, but you and Betsy decided to hijack it to continue your vitriolic and totally unreasonable attack on Pickering that you have conducted since the festival was first announced. Now you whine when people defend the festival and its organisation. You really are pathetic. If you can't stand the robust debate don't start it in the first place. Who the hell do you think you are? Certainly not representative of the Northern folk scene as I know it, and have known it, for over 40 years. Just get off your high horse and let people enjoy the folk scene in their own ways. |
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Subject: RE: The Improper Folk Festival (Pickering, UK) From: Lowden Jameswright Date: 12 Aug 08 - 07:27 AM Two great folk festivals scheduled at the same time and only 25 miles apart - just proves the folk scene is thriving! ... and all these folk prepared to debate it ad infinitum too |
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Subject: RE: The Improper Folk Festival (Pickering, UK) From: nutty Date: 12 Aug 08 - 07:34 AM I have nothing more to say in this thread ..... Please note that whatever I may have said (and you need to read all three threads to find that out) I have not personally attacked anyone nor do I intend to do so. Sadly, I always believed that in a free country I was allowed to hold and express my own opinions. Any member wishing to further communicate with me can send a PM. |
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Subject: RE: The Improper Folk Festival (Pickering, UK) From: theleveller Date: 12 Aug 08 - 02:30 PM "I have not personally attacked anyone" No, of course not. You prefer the snide remark and the backhanded comment; lots of inuendo and then feigned outrage when someone dares to contradict you. Personally, I prefer to be upfront with my comments and let the people reading them judge for themselves if I'm being unreasonable or aggressive. Then I hope they'll tell me straight. |
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Subject: RE: The Improper Folk Festival (Pickering, UK) From: stallion Date: 12 Aug 08 - 02:49 PM When I first heard about the Pickering festival I thought the organisers were brave to put on so many top acts at a new festival and wished them well in a thread somewhere in this place. I wouldn't, for commercial reasons, have pitched it on the same w/e as Saltburn but in all probability it would have drawn some new people in, anyway, difficult one to assess really. The weather was foul, bloody awful, for an established festival they might have got away with it but for something new there would have been too many unknowns, a logistical nightmare and a lot of extremely disgruntled, wet, miserable punters to deal with. One might have suspected they had a "wet weather plan" (what in August!)but I doubt if that stretched to a "flood plan" and if it didn't flood there was an exceedingly strong chance that it would, the Vale of Pickering was an inland sea and is as flat as a pancake and the water doesn't run anywhere at any sort of pace. Having dealt with all that, the ticket sales are of relevance to the knockers in an "I told you so" sort of way and to the organisers who will hopefully come back next year having learnt a lot and not been put off with the experience. There are concerns in this place about whether this festival was solely for personal gain, well events need to make money to succeed and if everyone grafting was to be paid, from artists to lavatory cleaners it ain't cheap if I wanted to make money I would have put a few rock bands on and filled the place with screaming teenagers and got sponsorship from the record labels ( do teenagers scream these days, oh dear, I am so out of touch) Anyway to the organisers, give it another go, hindsight is a wonderful thing, and maybe work a bit harder to get more people on board. See you all on next years thread! |
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Subject: RE: The Improper Folk Festival (Pickering, UK) From: Tim Leaning Date: 12 Aug 08 - 02:56 PM "SO just for a bit of fun eh? Oh foolish bodrahn on a stick person. How about \Pickering is a proper fest too I happen to know that at least one of the lady stewards and one of the |Von Trapps are very proper. Enjoy Saltburn El George," Well mate,I dont like to say I told you so but........... |
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Subject: RE: The Improper Folk Festival (Pickering, UK) From: Betsy Date: 12 Aug 08 - 05:14 PM Hi Stallion you talk a lot of sense, a Pop / Rock scene might have paid dividends - Glastonbury seems to, regardless of bad weather.As for the other halfwit who accuses me of being vitriolic in commenting on this matter, far from it, it is not exactly in my nature to be vitriolic , although like Nutty (who I admire), I reserve the right to express, and comment, on situations such as this especially when I and Nutty live within easy reach of both Saltburn and Pickering. I have a most enjoyable time meeting for the first time El Greko and making a new friend - and he made a new fan , in addition to meeting many many old friends, mudcatters and acquaintances which made Saltburn a most pleasurable weekend. This other person says that the (or she) " Who the hell do you think you are? Certainly not representative of the Northern folk scene as I know it, and have known it, ". None of the Mudcatters I asked at the weekend knows who you are , and when I find out - I'll decide whether you have been around "the Northern folk scene" for over 40 years as I can certainly equal THAT. |
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Subject: RE: The Improper Folk Festival (Pickering, UK) From: oggie Date: 12 Aug 08 - 05:33 PM Pickering and Saltburn may be 45 miles from each other (is it only in the North that we think of that as being "next door") but the bills were very different as was I suspect the target audience. If we're saying that there are only enough folkies to support one festival a week in the north-east of England then we've got big trouble. Steve PS Feel sorry for the traders who have lost a weekend's trading and whilst they may get their pitch fee back don't get a cancellation fee or recompense for loss of earnings. |
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Subject: RE: The Improper Folk Festival (Pickering, UK) From: theleveller Date: 12 Aug 08 - 07:51 PM Ah, so I'm a halfwit am I, Betsy? On what basis do you reach that conclusion? Neither your arguments nor your weird take on the English language lead me to assume that you have any great intelligence or have ever progressed beyond the lowest stage of the educational system. Perhaps you'd like to put up your academic qualifications against mine. Should prove interesting! Or am I just getting into a battle of wits with an unarmed person? As to the fact that no-one at Saltburn knows who I am - why should they? Unlike you, I have no pretensions in that respect. I have to admit that I don't know who you are and no-one on the folk scene around here does, either. (Er...who the hell do you think you are?)In 40 years I don't think that I've ever come across you or the Nutter. Thankfully. Hey, just goes to show what a great an varied scene the folk community is in Yorkshire. Why don't you realise this and let people enjoy it in their own way? You are certainly NOT representative of the Northern folk scene. You are a nonentity who wants to appear to be someone who has some credibility. Oh dear! How sad is that? Is that the whole raison d'etre (that's French for 'reason for being')of your existence? What a load of pretentious twaddle you do utter: "I'll decide if you have been around the Northern folk scene for over 40 years"... ah well, we await your opinion with baited breath. I'm sure the whole of Britain is awaiting the verdict of the great, ubiquitous Betsy -whoever she might be. As I said to the Nutter - "Get a life!". |
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Subject: RE: The Improper Folk Festival (Pickering, UK) From: nutty Date: 13 Aug 08 - 01:34 AM theleveller You pathetic individual - all this venom simply because I said something you disagreed with. So much for it being a free country. Your inability to construct an argument without turning it into a personal attack shows a lack of intelligent thought and the fact that you continue to hide behind your anonimity while spitting out such puerile comments commends you to no one. Your behaviour would be considered childish even if you were a 10 year old. Grow up and accept the fact that there are two sides to every argument and that such things can be debated without it turning into all out war.
-Joe Offer- |
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