BS: Tech: Help: Rant: Argh! Ms Word meltdwn

Subject: RE: BS: Tech: Help: Rant: Argh! Ms Word meltdwn
From: CapriUni
Date: 13 Jun 02 - 01:20 PM

Computers are immortal, perfect, and omnipotent.

:::Sigh:::

That's what they all think, until they have a run in with lightning...

...or a spilled can of soda...

Subject: RE: BS: Tech: Help: Rant: Argh! Ms Word meltdwn
From: MMario
Date: 13 Jun 02 - 01:28 PM

or a mouse in the case...

Subject: RE: BS: Tech: Help: Rant: Argh! Ms Word meltdwn
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 13 Jun 02 - 01:43 PM

or a teenager who gives it three instructions at a time

Subject: RE: BS: Tech: Help: Rant: Argh! Ms Word meltdwn
From: DMcG
Date: 13 Jun 02 - 02:21 PM

Smedley, can you have a word with Shorty?

Subject: RE: BS: Tech: Help: Rant: Argh! Ms Word meltdwn
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 13 Jun 02 - 04:16 PM

A wonderful reference is "Word 97 Annoyances", by whatsisname (you can probably find it on Amazon). There is probably a Word 2000 Annoyances, too, and maybe soon one for XP. It gives you lots of information you can't find in the help pages on tweaking Word to make it do what you want to do instead of what the guys in Redmond want you to do. It explains how to use NORMAL.dot, toolbars, and a host of other neat tricks.

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: BS: Tech: Help: Rant: Argh! Ms Word meltdwn
From: Bert
Date: 13 Jun 02 - 04:29 PM

Hi JohninK, You're right it wasn't an Office program that lost the file, it was the blankety blank heap of crap that MicroSoft sells as an operating system. It crashed again. This happens quite regularly and it was a bad crash that time and we had to unplug the computer to regain control.

We looked in all subdirectories first for a filename then for a filename using several different wildcard combinations and then for a word that we knew was in the text.

None of the files were anywhere to be found.
It surprised me because I thought that only the file she was working on would be lost. But no, the whole evenings work had disappeared.

The trouble with relying on automatic back up features is that you are again putting your trust in MicroSoft. Big mistake.

But not to worry we are setting up Linux on her other hard drive.

Subject: RE: BS: Tech: Help: Rant: Argh! Ms Word meltdwn
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 13 Jun 02 - 06:17 PM

bert -

You certainly have my sympathy, and if you have no confidence in Windows, then it's certainly your option to try another operating system.

If files were saved to disk, there is no likely way they could have "disappeared," but it's certainly possible to open a new document without saving the previous one. Almost everyone has done it at least once. In that case, everything that has not been saved would be lost.

If Windows is crashing frequently, there is a reason for it, and it can be "fixed." Unfortunately, as with any operating system, the "fixing" may require more than you feel like doing now. That's fine - it's your choice to make.

Having worked with systems from CP/M and DOS 2.0 through UNIX, LINUX, Apollo, a few miscellaneous proprietary OS's, and Windows 1.4, 2.0, 3.1, 3.11, 95, 98, and 2000, my personal opinion is that Windows (98 and later) is - usually - the most productive operating system to come along for none-wonk users. Others certainly disagree.

It is necessary to get it set up right, on a computer with appropriate resources, and to learn the limitations of what you can do with your setup. (Sort of like courting - marriage - and hope for happy ever after, it's not necessarily a slam-dunk.)

Condolences again - and good luck.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Tech: Help: Rant: Argh! Ms Word meltdwn
From: mack/misophist
Date: 14 Jun 02 - 09:37 AM

JohnInKansas is correct but I think he understates the case. Unless you are already a programmer/technician, the time and effort it takes to learn to control Windows is MUCH less than what it takes to run Linux intelligently. For example, in Linux you will need to run some version of fsck. However the Man pages that tell how assume you already know several key facts. Very frustrating. A community college course on Windows is all you really need.

Subject: RE: BS: Tech: Help: Rant: Argh! Ms Word meltdwn
From: Grab
Date: 14 Jun 02 - 01:09 PM

LH, clearing out your internet cache might help on startup. It's also known to do this if you've got large files dumped on the desktop instead of saved in proper directories somewhere.

Also you may have lots of things running on startup. It's not just the "startup" tab on your Start menu - there's a whole bunch of other stuff can run as well. Hit the "Run" option on the Start menu, and type "msconfig" . MS Config gives you a full list of all the stuff Windows is doing in its configuration setup, including what gets run at startup. Select the "Startup" tab, and look through the list. If there's anything there that you don't recognise, check it out. You can uncheck any in the list that you don't want to run - this won't damage anything (and you can always reinstate them later by just checking the box again), but if you uncheck something like your virus-scanner or your soundcard monitoring software then you'll obviously find those tray options missing when you reboot.

Re the slowing down problem, is this a recent development? Or is it just that your machine is a bit old, a bit slow and short of memory, and you're trying to run Word, Excel and Access at the same time whilst drawing a 5000x5000 bitmap picture...? Also consider that you may have something running at regular intervals - have you set your virus checker to do periodic checks every half hour?

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: Tech: Help: Rant: Argh! Ms Word meltdwn
From: Don Firth
Date: 14 Jun 02 - 01:29 PM

In both Word 97 on my desktop and Word 2000 on my notebook, when I go to "File" and "New," all I get is a blank screen except for the toolbars, ruler, status bar, and scroll bars. It's labeled Document1. No screen that offers me a choice of templates. It used to, but not anymore, for some reason. How do I get that back? I presume I pull up a screen and tick a box somewhere, but I've checked everything I can think of (including a two-inch thick book I paid $35.00 for) and I can't find it. Anybody?

Back in prehistoric times when I was using Word 6 (DOS), I could set up a style sheet, click the name of the style sheet I wanted, click "Attach" and I was on my way. It seems to me that instead of making the more recent versions "transparent," they've managed to make them bloody opaque.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Tech: Help: Rant: Argh! Ms Word meltdwn
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 14 Jun 02 - 04:36 PM

The File - New selection shouuld show you a "new box" that will show all of the ".dot" files you have available.

In recent "Office" versions, the templates are usually in C:\Program Files\Office\Templates. In older versions they were usually just in a C:\...\Word directory.

In Word, you may need to select Tools - Options, and on the "File Locations" tab, set a location for Word to look in to find your "dot files."

Especially in recent versions, Office comes with a whole bunch of rather intrusive gizmos (I think they refer to them as "presets,") that a lot of people find more annoying than helpful, and they get deleted. Unfotunately, a few of them that may actually be helpful sometimes get dumped.

I'd suggest you do a search for files named "*.dot" and see where yours are - if any, then "point" Word at them with the File Locations setting. As mentioned above, Word will "recreate" the default normal.dot, so if you find one normal.dot, that's where it's "defaulting" to. If you find more than one, then one of them is probably where your "templates" pointer used to be aimed.

It's generally good practice to keep all of your templates in one separate subdirectory. Once you get that working, you can also "hide" ones you don't use somewhere else, and copy them back if you need them occasionally but don't want to sort through them every time you open-new.

If you're using a "full suite" Office, the "template" location in Word may set where all of the Office programs look. If you have "single program" installations of Excel etc., each of them should have its own similar setting.

Like with Windows, you can usually use your Office install disk to "restore": Control Panel - Add/Remove Programs, if something has been accidentally removed.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Tech: Help: Rant: Argh! Ms Word meltdwn
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 14 Jun 02 - 07:34 PM

My "editor S.O." pointed out my typo (6:17pm) above: it should have been "non-wonks," but she then surprised me with "what's a wonk?". For the benefit of any others who may not have known one, my Random House Unabridged CD Dictionary offers:

       wonk -
       1. a student who spends much time studying 
          and has little or no social life; grind.
       2. a stupid, boring, or unattractive person.
  

Obviously, the second definition would have no application to anyone at mudcat, and was not intended.

My S.O. says, "In other words, it's a synonym for 'engineer?'" I prefer "dedicated."

The adjective form "wonkish," meaning very dedicated to the study of things not understood by Liberal Arts students, should not be confused with "wonky," which the New Hackers Dictionary describes as Australian slang for something that produces behaviour seen as crazy, humorous, or amusingly perverse.

(A similar subtlety, with which more may be familiar, may be found in the complimentary US term "Kluge" (rhyms with "huge") meaning the "clever use of unconventional methods or equipment to obtain a desired result" - contrasted with the generally derogatory, British "Kludge" (rhyms with "fudge") meaning "a poorly and wrongly executed attempt at something." Ain't slang wunnerful?)

John

Subject: RE: BS: Tech: Help: Rant: Argh! Ms Word meltdwn
From: Don Firth
Date: 15 Jun 02 - 01:59 AM

Thanks, John. Actually, I feel kinda silly. The templates were there all along. I'm so used to just clicking on the icon that it never occurred to me to click "File" and look at the pull-down menu. I did run a "*.dot" search though, and somehow some of them seem to have gotten scattered all over the place. I'm going to set about gathering them into a couple of folders so I know where they are and can make better use of them.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Tech: Help: Rant: Argh! Ms Word meltdwn
From: DMcG
Date: 15 Jun 02 - 04:36 AM

(Referring back to the spurious "Please Wait" messages I was getting)

Well, I removed Office, reinstalled everything including SR-1 and all is now well. A pain, but probably the only way in the end. Thanks to those who spent time pondering easier fixes ... it was not to be, I'm afraid

Subject: RE: BS: Tech: Help: Rant: Argh! Ms Word meltdwn
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 15 Jun 02 - 05:18 AM

Don -

Don't feel bad. It's been about 15 years since they changed the default "quick-key" for undo indents from Ctl-N to Ctl-T. It took me 10 of those fifteen to break the habit of undoing a Ctl-M with a Ctl-N and start using Ctl-M / Ctl-Shift-M, - and every time I'd slip up, I'd get a "new document" that looked like my work had been vaporized.

Very disconcerting.

A quick look shows about 20 .dot templates that come with Word 97, none of which I use. I do keep about 25 home-brew templates for things like CD labels, envelopes, and such "on tap." I have a "secret" archive of about 50 or 60 that create special forms that I once used, or that are "holders" for paragraph styles and special purpose macros that I might want again someday.
If you "tailor" your normal.dot to something other than the default, you can make a copy of it somewhere else. Then, instead of deleting the normal.dot, you just copy it back and overwrite the corrupt one - and get back your pretty stuff instead of having rebuild from the default.

Discussing this thread with my S.O. brought back a few tips that might be considered somewhat "exotic" but have been handy:

If an individual Word document "misbehaves," select everything (Ctl-A), then hold down the Shift key and hit a single "left arrow" so that you highlight everything except the last carriage return. Copy (Ctl-C) and Open a new blank document (File - New) and paste (Ctl -V). If you copy the last carriage return, you get the file "trailer" that is probably where the file is corrupted. By omitting that last character, all you paste is the text from the document - and usually it comes back to life. If you close the old doc first, you can even save it back with the original filename.

NEVER put a "bookmark" at the beginning of a document. There is a "hidden" StartOfFile bookmark there, and if you overwrite it, your document will fall apart on you. (You don't need one there anyway, since Ctl-Home will take you there in any Windows program.

As mentioned before, we recommend turning off the "Automatic Update" for normal.dot (Format - Styles - Modify - clear the box) and not allowing Fast Saves (Tools - Options - Save - clear the box. It is a good idea to leave the "prompt to save normal template" box checked - so that you get to say "don't screw with my template" when Word tries to slip something in.

Keep the "autosave" turned on with an interval of 10 or 20 minutes, but don't rely on it. Instead, every time the little floppy starts it's hula dance - indicating an "autosave recovery file" is being updated, take the few seconds necessary to do your own File-Save - - i.e. use it as a timer to remind yourself to save.

NEVER turn on "View Outline," unless the document was created in Outline View. It is guaranteed to do things to your document that you don't want.

Our preference is to clear the "check spelling as you type" and "check grammar as you type" boxes in Tools - Options - Spelling and Grammar. An alternative is to check the "hide errors" boxes. If you don't do at least one of these, you may find funny little "worm" underlines in your document - and they will print as part of the document on many printers. The underlines mean Word thinks you're stupid and did something "wrong," which is not necessarily true.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Tech: Help: Rant: Argh! Ms Word meltdwn
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 15 Jun 02 - 05:30 AM

'Catters have shown a commendable interest in their computer maintenance, but quite a few still seem to have some problems - particularly with Disk Cleanup, ScanDisk and Defrag. The following three items appear to be "core" articles, and may be helpful.

Q186099: Description of the Disk Cleanup Tool (Win98 and WinME)

Q287914: List of Articles About the ScanDisk Tool (Win95, Win98, WinME)

Q286263: List of Articles About the Disk Defragmentor Tool (Win95, Win98, WinME)

Note that the two "Lists" contain links to other, more specific, information. The above links are to information for Win95/98/ME, but should be mostly applicable to later versions.

Anyone using Windows should already have a bookmark to Knowledge Base Search. If you can enter a specific "error message" that's causing you a problem, it's pretty good. If you need more general information, it can be tedious; but is as good a place as any (except maybe Mudcat?) to start solving a problem.

Based on recent discussion, some people might find interesting (maybe even useful) information in some of the following articles. Go to the Knowledge Base Search site and put the "Q-number" in. Note that this is only a brief, and fairly random, sample of what's available.

Q131944:   How to delete Windows\Temp files - - says you should do it in DOS MODE ONLY(?)
Q15166:   Description of Windows Files Located in Root Folder - - some you can delete, and which you shouldn't
Q174360:   How to use Security Zones in Internet Explorer - - i.e. how to set it up.
Q185564:   Cannot Disable Startup File in System Config Utility - - (if file is "empty").
Q188162:   Incorrect Folder Names in Program Files Folder - - an "improper" fix could cause a number of problems similar to some seen in recent discussions.
Q19516:   Cannot change Temporary Internet Files Cache size - - what happens if you delete the whole cookies, history, and temporary internet files folders, and (sort of) how to backup a cookie.
Q196955:   How to set and customize cookies settings in IE - - another how-to
Q223799:   Persistent vs. Per-Session Cookies - can be controlled separately in IE, sort of.
Q22787:   Temporary files may not be cleared if you have printed a web page that contains frames or floating frames - - delete them manually.
Q246726:   Cannot Delete files in Windows - - what to do if your recycle bin gets trashed.
Q249036:   Clearing Recycle Bin takes a long time - - some explanation of how recycle bin works.
Q250971:   Files are saved in My Documents Folder instead of where you want them - - can be fixed by Registry Edit, suggested for "advanced user" only(?)
Q269607:   Windows Media Player Privacy. - - a program that sends info from your machine to the web.
Q271808:   Archived List of Search ... - - issues and cleanup of Registry, probably for "advanced" users only(?)

And also note that sometimes the title doesn't indicate what's really interesting in an article.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Tech: Help: Rant: Argh! Ms Word meltdwn
From: GUEST,Newly defragmented Pluiméir Ceolmhar at home
Date: 15 Jun 02 - 11:52 AM

Thanks again, guys.

It's taken a good part of a sunny Saturday indoors to do it, but I've now been able to run a few successive defragments in a few minutes, so it's been worth while.

Watching this thread grow, I don't feel so lonely any more!

Subject: RE: BS: Tech: Help: Rant: Argh! Ms Word meltdwn
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Jun 02 - 12:51 PM

A low-tech tip, for those who don't fool with templates (I find it easy enough to format pages in a few keystrokes that I don't often fool with templates, beyond how I set up "normal" to look the way I usually use it). If you have text that seems to be fouled up with Word commands, or if you want to take a word document (saved as .doc) to use in something like Frontpage (boo, hiss, but I'm stuck using it at work) then do the ctl-A, ctl-C to select all and copy, then open Notepad (under Programs--Accessories--Notepad) and ctl-v (or open the edit menu and "paste") to drop it into there. This simple little text program strips out all of the non-essentials and essentially purges the problem. Then if you drop it back into a new word document and format from there, you'll have unpoluted text to work with. I use Notepad a lot, at least on a daily basis, as a place to drop text I want to keep track of, or to format for html, etc.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Tech: Help: Rant: Argh! Ms Word meltdwn
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Jun 02 - 12:57 PM

P.S. I've turned off everything non-essential, like grammar check, spell check, style check, and never NEVER use "auto-format". That's auto-fuck-up if I ever saw it. Who does Bill Gates think he is, examining my content for wordiness or dangling participles? Does he really think my modifier is too far from my subject? And that dictionary is SOOOOO stupid. You'll note, also, that there are different styles to choose from, and you have to go into each and turn thse things off that I mentioned above, just in case it gets the idea that you're writing something technical vs. general vs. scholarly.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Tech: Help: Rant: Argh! Ms Word meltdwn
From: Don Firth
Date: 15 Jun 02 - 01:27 PM

Great stuff, gang! I'm saving this thread to disk to keep as reference.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Tech: Help: Rant: Argh! Ms Word meltdwn
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 15 Jun 02 - 01:37 PM

Stilly -

Someone else pointed out in another thread:

In Word, do a Ctl-A to select everything.
Do a Ctl-C to copy everything.
Do an Alt-E, S, one arrow down, and hit enter.

The last sequence does an Edit, Paste-Special, as unformatted text - which does everything you get by copying into Notepad and then copying back to Word.

It's probably the easiest way there is to get rid of all the crud when you copy something from Mudcat (for example).

Of course, you don't want to do it before you convert any "clickies" to plain text urls.)

Actually, what you describe is the way a lot of people use Word; but it's a little like paying the feed bill for a horse you're afraid to ride.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Tech: Help: Rant: Argh! Ms Word meltdwn
From: Justa Picker
Date: 15 Jun 02 - 01:50 PM

Perhaps you can help me with a Word question.
I deal with contract work a lot. I've started using MS Word and e-mailing contracts to clients, so that they can print hard copies on their end, and thus avoid snail mail and faxing.

How or what do I need to do, to ensure that any document I sent retains its original formatting, so that when the receiver prints it on their end, it looks identical to the original I created? Some come back to me identical as sent; others come back all garbled with the formatting completely messed up. (I've not been finding Word particularly user friendly.)

Thanks in advance for any suggestions and help.

Subject: RE: BS: Tech: Help: Rant: Argh! Ms Word meltdwn
From: DMcG
Date: 15 Jun 02 - 02:10 PM

Do people edit the document before they return it? If so, one of the biggest problems is with "Styles" and autonumbering. Some people use autonumbered paragraphs for things like headings and other people just type in plain text then add a number by hand and reformat it to bold and so on. This then looks right until someone edits it to insert another paragraph or swap things around then you end up with two paragraph 10s (say) and subsections in the middle of nowhere etc etc.

The only moderately efficient ways around this with shared documents that I have ever found are

1) Don't number anything until the final version of the document.

or:

2) Agree on a consistant way of doing these things amongst everyone involved in editing the document

or:

3) Let it go haywire and then get some poor sucker to sort out afterwards.

What is definately a bad idea is what most groups seem to use - adopt an inconsistant approach and keep 'correcting' adjusting bits as you go. This just makes the mess worse and worse as each subsequent change comes in.

(You may have guessed this is battle I have been fighting and losing for a long time!)

Subject: RE: BS: Tech: Help: Rant: Argh! Ms Word meltdwn
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 15 Jun 02 - 02:16 PM

Justa Picker:

Do your document as you want it in Word, and save as a Word document.

Make a brief email, with a meaningful subject line, and note that the contract is "attached."

Send the document as "an attachment" to the email.

This requires that whoever receives it "must have Word" in order to open the attachment, but that shouldn't be much of a problem. Most other decent word processors will "import" Word documents, and will preserve most of the formatting. There is also a "Word Reader" that a recipient can get for free (it's supposed to be easy, but I'll have to check) that lets them view, but not make changes to a Word document.

Caveats:

A very few email servers will reject anything with an attachment. This should not happen in any "professional" usage.

Many email servers impose a limit on the size of individual messages (including any attachments), frequently 2 MB.

Especially on "free" email servers, the total of all email messages that a user can have on the server may be quite small (a couple of MB) so sending "large" attachments may cause an occasional "bounce" just because the recipient hasn't cleaned his box.

If you really want to get serious, individual documents can be "password protected" when you save them, so that the recipient can't change the document - even with his "full-up" Word, without the password.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Tech: Help: Rant: Argh! Ms Word meltdwn
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 15 Jun 02 - 02:41 PM

DMcG:

Re multiparty editing:

1. ALWAYS keep a copy of what you sent.
2. ALWAYS keep a copy of what you sent.
3. ALWAYS keep a copy of what you sent.

IF you've done the above, there are a couple of things you can do to "help" the situation.

Before you send the document, set "Track Changes." In your original document, select Tools - Track Changes - Highlight Changes. On the box that pops up, check all three boxes. Save the document, and send it on its way.

When someone makes a change - unless they know how to turn off the tracking (tell them you consider that deliberate sabotage) - the original deleted/replaced text will remain, but will change color. Any new text will be in a different color. Word will read the user identity from the machine on which the change is made, and will mark the change to identify the culprit author.

When you get the document back, you go back to Tools - Track Changes, but click on "Accept-Reject Changes." You can then step through the changes one at a time, and either accept or reject them individually.

ONE PERSON must have SOLE AND FINAL AUTHORITY over a document, any time multiple people can make (recommend) changes. Often, seeing their putzing visibly marked in the document will encourage people to apply at least a minimal "sanity" to what they do to it.

Be aware that using this utility does require some learning by all participants; but it can work very well.

The alternative: Give your saved original a distinctive name, so you can tell "versions" apart. When you get the document back, open the new one and then click on Tools - Track Changes - Compare Revisions. Point the "document to compare to the original, and you'll get a "markup" exactly as if you had done the "track changes" thing, except for identification of the villians.

And yes - autonumbered and autobulleted lists are a R.P.I.A. For very simple lists, it can work, but can be exceedingly flaky. Auto Line Numbers should be acceptable, but I would be reluctant to rely on the autonumbered list function for a legal document.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Tech: Help: Rant: Argh! Ms Word meltdwn
From: DMcG
Date: 15 Jun 02 - 02:44 PM

Even if no-one edits the file and the whole thing is write protected you can still get changes of format though. For example, if you use a font that the users don't have on their PC Windows will pick something that it decides is close and that can move words around which, if you are really unlucky, can cause pages in the middle of the document with only one word on them. It can also do things like alter how words flow around pictures, especially in the pictures are in a fixed place on the page, rather than relative to text and that can produce some odd effects. You can also get similar effects just by using a printer with a different number of dots per inch.

Its not just Word, by the way. Excel is even worse. You can often find that the print preview looks nothing like the document when it is actually printed. Fortunately or otherwise, people are not usually quite so worried about layout in Excel. We had a particular problem where all the reports from a non windows old-fashioned lineprinter showed the width of the data column like this

<---- September ---->

and the user insisted on using this format in Excel rather than anything more modern. I don't think we ever got the print preview to match the printed results in any of the reports!

Subject: RE: BS: Tech: Help: Rant: Argh! Ms Word meltdwn
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 15 Jun 02 - 03:45 PM

DMcG -

You're talking some pretty "exotic" kinds of documents here, if you're worried about text flow around graphics in something with multiple "editors."

Unfortunately, the problems you describe are not unique to Word and Excel. I'm afraid you'll find much of the same situation with any "modern" office suite.

Most of the "autocrap" functions in Office programs are there because people want to "make it pretty," but don't want to actually learn how to do anything. The garbage that is so annoying to anyone who actually wants to use the features in the program are defaults, because anyone who thinks they're "great stuff" would never figure out how to turn them on, while those willing to actually learn something can and should turn most of them off.

Office contains a fairly good selection of standard fonts, and if you use only the standard ones, there shouldn't be too much of a problem with font substitutions. This is not to say that they won't occur. One example - if you've done a reasonable amount of web browsing, you probably have a TrueType Garamond font on your machine - that was downloaded to you by any of a number of web sites that "encapsulate" it in their html. It is not the "Office Standard" TrueType Garamond font.

If you really want consistency with multiple editors:
1. Create a Style Sheet for your document(s).

2. The Style Sheet must list every font and every paragraph style, that is to be permitted.

3. Create a "normal.dot" or your own "useitorelse.dot that contains all of the styles you will use, and get a copy of it to every "editor," and make sure they install and use ONLY it. (Note - take care that individual paragraph styles are not "based on" another style, to prevent "ripple changes."

4. Specify (in your Style Sheet) the specific printer driver that will be used for final printing, and make sure that every editor installs it, and sets it as default during all editing. (They don't have to use it to print - just during any editing.)

5. Supply the same set of fonts in your Style Sheet to every editor, and make sure that they remove all other fonts from their machine during editing. (Strongly urge Adobe TypeManager for this!) Note: this includes removing that #@%!^ Garamond every time one of your people visits "one of those" websites.

6. Make sure that your PDF Reader (and Distiller, if you have it) is properly "isolated" - it can "induce" unwanted font substitutions.

7. Assign ONE specific person to enforce all of the rules, and give them a stiff staff and authority to "slap wrists" if needed.

(8.) If you're really worried about final document appearance, after all of the edits are "final," import the thing into a "real" publishing program like PageMaker, FrameMaker, QuarkExpress, or the like. (Last step optional unless you're rich, or a large enough company to $write$ it off.)

A corollary rule - especially for tech stuff - is ABSOLUTELY PROHIBIT AUTHORS FROM APPLYING FORMATTING OF ANY KIND. It'll save you a whole lot of work.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Tech: Help: Rant: Argh! Ms Word meltdwn
From: Amos
Date: 15 Jun 02 - 03:48 PM

Personally I think the Tooth Fairy should take pity and leave you all a brand new IMac. You'd be a lot better off for it!! :>)) Why the Tooth Fairy?? So she can save you all this gnashing of teeth!

A

Subject: RE: BS: Tech: Help: Rant: Argh! Ms Word meltdwn
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Jun 02 - 04:12 PM

An awful lot in this thread, some of it beyond me. I'm saving it too.
I have scan disk, disk cleanup and defrag set up to run automatically on Monday nights. I clear anything running and let it do its job. Now if I could just get my MacAfee virus online to work regularly- It works about one in five and dies on the rest. Thinking of a switch to Norton.

Subject: RE: BS: Tech: Help: Rant: Argh! Ms Word meltdwn
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 15 Jun 02 - 04:17 PM

I forgot one thing:

If anyone in your editing group is using a Mac, break it.

Seriously, nothing in any of the last several posts is peculiar to a specific Operating System. The same problems discussed would occur if the whole world were nothing but Macs.

Note though that the Word for Mac lacks a fair number of useful features found in Word for Windows, and there are a number of differences in keyboard scan-codes (even after a good conversion program is applied) to cause frequent "broken characters" in stuff produced on a Mac - usually only found when you get to the "import into page layout" stage.

No argument with anyone who feels the need to use a Mac, but they do not interface well in a multi-system environment. WinWord documents probably import into Mac better than the other way around, although some formatting may be lost. With Mac to Win imports, it's usually individual character trash.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Tech: Help: Rant: Argh! Ms Word meltdwn
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 15 Jun 02 - 04:24 PM

DMcG - a quicky:

If the printed output does not match print preview, it usually means that the PrintDriver does not match the printer.

The print driver (the "software" controller for the default printer) must match what you intend to print on in order for print preview to work.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Tech: Help: Rant: Argh! Ms Word meltdwn
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Jun 02 - 07:36 PM

Actually, what you describe is the way a lot of people use Word; but it's a little like paying the feed bill for a horse you're afraid to ride.

Pardon me if I disagree with this statement if you meant to apply it to how I use Word; a few posts later you make the observation about those willing to actually learn something can and should turn most of them off. This after I've advised to turn off as many of those features as possible.

I started word processing many years ago with WordStar. Anyone remember that powerful dinosaur? I loved it--a few keystrokes for formatting and you kept going, you didn't have to stop what you were typing to move a mouse around. There are keystroke commands in Word, but nearly as many as there could be. And the function keys at the top are nothing, not like they were in Wordstar.

Why do I remove bits from Word to Notepad and not just trust the clipboard to keep all of my bits that I want to paste later? Because I don't trust the darned thing! That said, the Win2000 Professional has about won me over on most things now; in the NT environment it's much more stable than in earlier versions and I can't remember the last time it crashed (knock on wood!).

I have my system set up to make backup copies; even though it is less necessary than it was, I still keep them. And it reminds me that it's time to burn a backup CD of what's on the hard drive.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Tech: Help: Rant: Argh! Ms Word meltdwn
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 15 Jun 02 - 10:26 PM

Stilly River Sage -

I apologize if I misread your earlier comment. It sounded like you were saying that you improved Word just by making it more like notepad - i.e. by just "disabling everything." I thought I was being more specific, with my reference to the "garbage that's annoying," but perhaps it's a fine distinction. Not all of the the "features" are useless; but I don't believe we have any basic disagreement here.

Yes - I remember WordStar - a couple of versions. Actually it was a lot like making an html codesheet. It was literally based on "markups."

As to keystroke shortcuts in Word, there are at least 200 default shortcuts (I have a 4 page list of the main ones that are built in, over 50 per page); and you can "roll your own" to do almost anything you want quite easily. And if you wish to use them, there are keystroke equivalents for almost everything so you don't really need a mouse - certainly once you're in a document.

It's been a couple of versions since Word dropped "WordStar compatibility" options, but a few choices in the Options settings will let you "drive" Word almost like it was only Word Perfect.

The copy and paste (ClipBoard) functions that you use to move stuff back and forth between Word and Notepad are "generic windows," essentially the same for all Windows programs, so if the "Clipboard" doesn't work for you in Word you should likely have the same problems in Notepad. The one "clinker" with the Clipboard is that it can only contain one item. You do have to remember to paste somewhere before you do the next Copy or Cut.

If you're "collecting" a bunch of things to paste back later, I'd be inclined to just use a separate Word document, since "flipping between" Word documents seems simpler than switching between two different programs - but that's your choice to make. (I also usually want the formatting of what I copy, and would lose it if I went through Notepad.) Note that if your machine has enough resources, you can open two separate "instances" of Word, if you like clicking at the bottom bar to switch between documents. The critical thing is that you save both documents frequently, whether they're Word or Notepad, so they don't disappear if you're "interrupted.

If you are collecting just a few scattered things to paste all in one place, you can also use the Word "Spike" function. Ctl-F3 puts a selection "on the spike," and you can add things to the spike by repeating the same "highlight, Ctl-F3." You paste the collected "spike contents" with Ctl-Shift-F3 - but be aware that they come off in reverse of the order you put them on.

Both the Clipboard and the Spike - and any unsaved documents - are "volatile." Anything not pasted into a document (Word or Notepad) and saved can disappear if something locks up.

Cultivating the simple habit of saving before you start a critical process will eliminate virtually all "loss-of-work crashes." (You may still crash, but you won't lose your stuff.) Then save again when the process is completed - both to be sure your work is safe, and to at least partially clear temp files used in the process.

And if you have pets, always save and minimize your program before leaving it unattended - so that little pussy feet on the keyboard don't add things for you.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Tech: Help: Rant: Argh! Ms Word meltdwn
From: katlaughing
Date: 15 Jun 02 - 11:07 PM

I haven't read all of this one, yet, stopped at the posting which solved my defrag problem, BUT just wanted to say "Great and Interesting thread and THANKS!"

Subject: RE: BS: Tech: Help: Rant: Argh! Ms Word meltdwn
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 16 Jun 02 - 12:05 AM

Kat - be sure to read the last paragraph above your post. It's very important for many 'catters.

Most people with significant keyboard experience will probably agree with Stilly River Sage (I hope I'm attributing the correct opinion) that "mousing around" is not really as efficient as being able to do it all directly from the keyboard. Unfortunately, it can be tough to "find" all of the things you can do with a few keystrokes. This is not just a Word problem - or even just a Windows problem, but there are a couple of hints that may help with Word.

In Word: Tools - Customize - Options, if you click on "Keyboard," you can see what keystroke shortcuts, if any, are assigned to any command. You can change them there as well.

Note that the commands available include a lot of things you cannot ordinarily do from the menu and toolbars. A number of them are VisualBasic commands that would ordinarily be used only in macros. Most of these will not have a keyboard shortcut, since they can "execute" only as part of a "program script."

Virtually all of the commands that can be executed by selecting on the menu bar(s) will have "Keyboard Shortcuts" already assigned. For many of them, there are several different ways to key in the action.

Although you can reassign the keystroke command for any action shown, learning and using the default shortcuts is recommended, if only because of the number of keystroke combinations already assigned. Reassigning a keystroke combination that's already in use means you really should go assign a different combination to the function you "stole" your combination from, which leads ... in circles.

There is a "restore all" button that will set everything back to default if you get hopelessly snarled in reassignments.

If there is a place that lists the default keystroke usage, I have not found it. Compiling a list from the entries shown in the method above is tedious, because you can't copy, paste, or type anything anywhere on your machine while the "Customize" box is open. I made my list one day (when mudcat was down, of course) by reading them from one machine and typing them on another machine.

If you run into a key combination that "does something" but it's not clear what it's doing, you can go to Tools - Customize - Options - Keyboard, select any command that doesn't have something assigned and type the combination. The "action" to which the combination is assigned will appear below the box where you enter the keystrokes. Just be sure you don't save the "reassignment" - i.e. delete it from the box before you hit "close" or use the Esc key to exit.

In addition, any "command" on the menu bars will have one character underlined. Alt + <the underlined character> will execute the function. This is a Windows thing, and should be true in any (compliant) Windows program. Example: Alt-F will open the "File" menu, where Alt+S will do a file "Save." In many cases, you can omit the "Alt" for a "second" step, so that "Alt+F" followed by "s" alone will do a save; but you will find cases where the Alt is needed with each stroke, or sometimes for "alternate" strokes if additional menus open. Omitting the Alt on second and susequent steps usually results in a relatively graceful "clunk," so it's a fairly safe thing to try - but no guarantees can be made.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Tech: Help: Rant: Argh! Ms Word meltdwn
From: wysiwyg
Date: 16 Jun 02 - 02:38 PM

Justa-- I would e-mail them not a doc, but a SCAN, indicating n the e-mail that this is what you have done. Snail the original hardcopy for their records if they want it. They can sign the scan, rescan and send it back. This way any changes will be handwritten so you spot them and initial them as OK, before signing your copy and sending it back in hardcopy.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Tech: Help: Rant: Argh! Ms Word meltdwn
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 16 Jun 02 - 04:13 PM

I don't see any reply to:

Mrrzy: 12-Jun-02 - 01:41 PM
CAN ANYBODY RESET THE "PROPERTIES" TO A NETWORK ICON?

It's not that we don't luv ya Mrrzy (well, -- I didn't actually take a vote.)

Not sure which network icon is the problem(?)

FIRST POSSIBILITY:

Windows typically has a couple of "network icons" on the desktop that are "setup" icons. When you click on them, a "setup wizard" opens to lead you through the sign-up to use the indicated network connection service. Properties cannot be changed on these, but you can delete them. You may want to make an "archive" directory somewhere and drag a copy there, in case you "might want them" later, before you delete.

If you look at these in Windows Explorer, (Desktop) you may note that they show as a "folder" (which you can't open) rather than as a file. They are sort of a different animal than the ordinary "shortcut" file. They may "resist" deleting, but usually if you select them one at a time they will delete. If not, there is help in the Mickey$oft Knowledge Base - but I ain't goin' there unless someone confirms that they have a problem with this.

SECOND POSSIBILITY:

If you're talking about the "ordinary" internet connection icon:

1. The desktop icon that connects you to your service should show a "Properties" selection if you Right-Click the icon, and you should be able to configure it there.

2. Setup will usually put an internet icon on the lower toolbar. Right-clicking it should give you the same "Properties" selection, where you can do changes.

3. You can make most changes in Internet Explorer, by clicking on the Tools - Internet Options - Connections tab. Changes you make there should be reflected in the icon properties - for both the desktop and the startbar icons. I don't know much about other programs, but they should have similar settings.

4. You can go to Control Panel (Start - Settings - Control Panel) and Select Internet Options, where you can change the configuration. Any changes made there should show up in the icon Properties (Note: if you're using Win2K, you can go directly through Start - Settings - Network And Dial-Up).

5. You can re-run from one of the "setup icons."

6. You can go to Start - Help, search for "Internet" and it should give you a link to the setup "wizard," where you can reconfigure the connection properties. I haven't been there recently, so you may have to try some other search - but it is in there.

Since the icon "properties" are essentially the same thing as the "connection properties," changes in any of these places should be reflected "in the icon."

THIRD POSSIBILITY:

If you're talking about another kind of network (LAN?) most properties should be in Control Panel. You may find settins under "Network" and also some related things in "System." A LAN icon can "point to" configuration details - like one of the setup icons, so you may or may not be able to go directly to Properties from a right-click on the icon. Changes you make in Control Panel should be automatically applied to the icon.

FOURTH POSSIBILITY:

You're using Win98 or later, and network setup was done under "Administrator" privileges, and you're "locked out." About all I can offer is Mickey$ofts favorite "answer to everything," "See Your System Administrator."

In most cases, if an icon is "corrupted," it's easiest to make a new icon, confirm that it works, and delete the old one.

John

Subject: BS: Tech: Help: Rant: Argh! Ms Word meltdwn
From: Wincing Devil
Date: 17 Jun 02 - 01:32 PM

At the above suggestion, I did a defrag on my 30GB drive Friday night. I started the defrag running, then SweeteeFace and I went out to the lovely Royal Mile Pub. I had the Auld Alliance, which is a lovely steak sandwich with a piquant bleu cheese dressing. My Beloved had her favorite, the Fife Spiced Shrimp. We finished of with Chef Ian's Delectable Key Lime Pie. We took our time, I wanted to give the defrag plenty of time to finish. When we got home, it was only 22% done! I had to go to bed that night without a Mudcat Fix! Next morning, it was 72% done, so my machine was still down. All in all it took almost 22 hours to do the Defrag, and I haven't noticed a noticable change in efficiency.

Makes ya wann bitch slap Bill Gates!

Subject: RE: BS: Tech: Help: Rant: Argh! Ms Word meltdwn
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 17 Jun 02 - 03:30 PM

Wincing Devil -

For a 30GB drive, 22 hours is probably not too surprising, if the drive has not been defragged a few times. It's a sad truth, but it's likely that things are working about as should be expected.

The hard part is that the next time - if done soon - might even take longer (but probably not a lot longer). With a drive that has quite a bit of stuff scattered about, the closer it gets to being "orderly," the harder it is for defrag to "improve" on it.

The good news is that if you keep rerunning defrag on a regular basis, it should eventually "clean up" to the point where it will go somewhat more quickly.

I'm not sure what OS you're using, but in my Win98, when you do a "safe mode" defrag, (which I assume you probably did) the program finds the first file that is fragmented and moves it to the "end of the disk." If the next file will fit in the empty space, it is moved down; but if it won't fit, it is also moved to the end of the disk and the next file is moved down. A fragmented file "low" on the disk means that every single file on the disk must be moved, even if only the first file on the disk was fragmented. This obviously will take some time on a large disk with a lot of files.

If you repeat the process a few times, the "low end" files that are likely to fragment will get moved out, and the further you can go before you start "moving everything over," the quicker you get done. Unfortunately, the "low end" of the disk is where all of the "system files" (links and logs, especially) usually start out - and these are ones most likely to be changed in routine operation.

Once most of the files on the disk are "in one piece," running defrag in Windows (with everything except Explorer and SysTray turned off) lets defrag go get one of those files that it moved to the end of the disk to "fill a gap" and avoid moving all the unfragmented files. It may still "thrash around" some on the low end of the disk, but large blocks of previously defragged stuff won't need to be moved, and things move along a little better. The first 20 to 30 percent or so will still take half the time (usually).

Congratulations on a significant accomplishment. Do it again fairly soon - and don't lose faith. A clean drive is "more better."

John

Subject: RE: BS: Tech: Help: Rant: Argh! Ms Word meltdwn
From: Wincing Devil
Date: 17 Jun 02 - 03:37 PM

I use Win98SE, booted in safe mode. It's just frustrating to be without my machine for that long.

My worry is, what is we take a power hit while defragging?

Subject: RE: BS: Tech: Help: Rant: Argh! Ms Word meltdwn
From: Wincing Devil
Date: 17 Jun 02 - 03:44 PM

What I meant to say was:

I use Win98SE, booted in safe mode. It's just frustrating to be without my machine for that long.

My worry is, what is we take a power hit while defragging??

I'm not on an UPS, and summer storms frequently zap us. Even if I had a UPS, if I'm away, Will Defrag be cognizant of the power loss? (providing I've hooked the UPS to the serial port.)

Subject: RE: BS: Tech: Help: Rant: Argh! Ms Word meltdwn
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 17 Jun 02 - 07:51 PM

Wincing Devil -

Defrag can be interrupted without serious effects. There is a "suspend" and also a "stop" button in the Win98 defrag. If you stop a defrag before it finishes, it will complain about it; but you won't lose any information by doing so.

I can't say what the results would be if you run it a lot of times and never let it finish, but if you need to interrupt it when you don't feel safe leaving it running, you're not going to hurt anything by doing it once or twice.

There is always the possibility of "data loss" in a sudden "power outage," but unless you get one of the "super UPS" packages with a shutdown program, you don't get a lot of help with unattended shutdown. The simpler UPS will flash you a warning to stop programs and save - but if you're not there to do it, the machine will keep running on the battery until it "browns out," with the same result as if it just crashed (or worse).

I can't find anything on the newer versions, but older defrag programs always (1) read a file, (2) wrote the file somewhere, (3) updated the FAT, (4) deleted the original file. This way the file was (is??) always written somewhere on the drive, and the FAT always pointed to a valid copy. Loss from a "power event" would be "zero" - if this is still the case. A "duplicate file" which might happen, would just be "lost clusters" when you ran the next ScanDisk, since the FAT wouldn't know about it.

If your thunderstorms are like the ones in Kansas, it is critical that you plug your equipment in through a good surge suppressor - on a circuit with a "valid" ground. The computer, and anything that connects to it like printers, scanners, etc should be connected through the surge suppressor (the same one, or "separate but equal" ones). Your POTS (plain old telephone system) modem should run through a "phone jack" circuit in the surge suppressor - the modem is much more sensitive to "surges" than the rest of the computer.

A simple power loss during defrag is not much more likely to cause a disaster than during other kinds of operation - which of course is not cause for "warm fuzzy feelings" about it. You have to decide what to risk, and when.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Tech: Help: Rant: Argh! Ms Word meltdwn
From: Wincing Devil
Date: 25 Jun 02 - 01:16 AM

Oh, well, I know it had nothing to do with the defrag, but my hard drive died over the weekend. It froze up, I tried to Ctrl-Alt-Del to reboot, but (as I've done many times before) I had to power down. When it started to boot back up, Instead of the Win98 start up screen, I got a text message "Operating System Not Found" I went into setup, and it didn't even see the Hard Drive. Luckily, I'd always backed up the most critical data, but all my emails, all my kitty pictures that did'nt get put up on the web, all my bookmarks... digital toast. Well, at least my wife still loves me (I hope!)