BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: The Sandman
Date: 30 Sep 24 - 09:51 AM

Vested interEst hs long been a problem as well as corruption.Ernest Marples who had a road haulage business, was made minister for transport and appointed Beeching who savaged the rail network

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Sep 24 - 10:50 AM

@Raindog - I just watched the Truss Q&A session on YT, and you’re correct, she didn’t say the Tories would have won the GE if she was the PM, the Guardian’s report is correct. Black mark to the BBC for allowing that to be reported on ‘Politics Live At The Conference’ when it appears not to have been true.

However, the Q&A session shows, in stark relief, what a truly appalling woman Truss is. Check it out, if you have the stomach for it…

Liz Truss Q&A at the Tory Conference 30/9/24

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Sep 24 - 11:12 AM

I have been having a discussion with a Tory friend (we have lots in common and don't fall out over politics) about the freebies and back handers to MPs. We both agree that it is ludicrous that it happens in any party. Whether any one is worse than another is debatable but the level of hypocrisy in the party that turned a blind eye to Johnson's (the biggest grifter of our time) undeclared shenanigans playing holier than thou with Starmer just about sums up their attitude to morality.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Sep 24 - 11:21 AM

Amen to that Dave, a thousand Amens.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 Oct 24 - 02:26 AM

policies are more important than personalities, what is needed right now are some trade deals between the uk and europe.
Truss is a back number from the past she is unimportant, a careerist who was not very bright and who is not even an MP anymore.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: keberoxu
Date: 01 Oct 24 - 03:54 PM

The Economist had an opinion page that was a hoot,
regarding the Conservative party and "swivel-eyed loons".

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Oct 24 - 03:54 AM

“You may kill an artist or a thinker, but you cannot acquire his art or his thought. You may put a man to death because he loves his fellow-men, but you will not by so doing acquire the love which made his happiness. Force is impotent in such matters; it is only as regards material goods that it is effective. For this reason the men who believe in force are the men whose thoughts and desires are preoccupied with material goods.“
— Bertrand Russell, Political Ideals (1917), Ch. I: Political Ideals, p. 6

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 04 Oct 24 - 07:49 AM

That too a substantial chunk out of my day comparing and contrasting Russell's and Marx's views o force and materiality.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Oct 24 - 05:55 PM

Whatever tactical voting went on in the Tory party today went spectacularly wrong if they were hoping to steer the party back to the centre. Cleverly was far from what his name suggests but at least he was almost moderate. Badenoch and Jenrick are too far right to do anyone any good. Well, I suppose it will make Starmer's Labour at least look more like Socialists.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 10 Oct 24 - 02:38 AM

There’s a school of thought that the Tories lost the election so badly, not because they’d lurched too far to the Right, but because they hadn’t lurched far enough to the Right. I’m beginning to think they might be on to something.

God help us (but not the Tory party).

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: The Sandman
Date: 10 Oct 24 - 03:01 AM

The Labour party will lose the next election if they cannot clear up the mess they have been left, which includes the effect of Brexit

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Thompson
Date: 10 Oct 24 - 04:29 AM

Is Brexit mostly British or English?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Oct 24 - 01:06 PM

The United Kingdom is actually the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. It comprises of England, Scotland, Wales and, as mentioned, Northern Ireland.

Within those 4 nations only England and Wales voted to leave but, sadly, it applied to the whole of the UK.

Bearing that in mind, can you rephrase the question so it makes sense?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Thompson
Date: 10 Oct 24 - 06:35 PM

Is Brexit only English and Welsh, then?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 10 Oct 24 - 07:55 PM

Within those 4 nations only England and Wales voted to leave ....

England, Scotland, Wales and N. Ireland did not vote on whether or not to leave the EU. The referendum was held in the UK - a single entity. If the constituent countries are considered separately from the UK, then the Greater London region should also be considered as it had a larger electorate than Scotland and N. Ireland put together and voted 60%/40% to remain.

..... but, sadly, it applied to the whole of the UK.

Brexit is not being applied in Northern Ireland in the same way as in Great Britain. There is a de facto customs border in the Irish sea between NI and the rest of the UK.


DC

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Oct 24 - 08:38 AM

That's as may be Doug but a great issue was made about the different nations of the UK voting in different ways. The BBC Brexit results page is about the clearest I think - here

I was trying to clarify Thompson's question "Is Brexit mostly British or English?" and, on relfection, it is neither! You sum it up well with "The referendum was held in the UK" but I think Thompson needed clarification on what constitues the UK.

Your point about NI is true but is still a bone of contention for many. I visited Whitehead, just north of Carrickfergus, recently and it is a lovely stretch of coast. Do you think if I move there they will eventualy be classed as in the EU? :-D

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Thompson
Date: 11 Oct 24 - 09:31 AM

Dave, I'd like to think so, but who knows. Nations and alliances meld and separate like buckets of microbes, despite what their poets and lovers may wish.

Oh, and yes, I know what the UK is, curently: England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Whereas Britain is England, Scotland and Wales. (Always spoken in that order; I wonder how this fits with the universal order of vowels in which it's always the big bad wolf and never the bad big wolf.)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Oct 24 - 09:45 AM

The official definition of the UK is not England, Scotlans etc. but the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. In turn, Great Britain is the biggest island of the British isles and comprises of England, Scotland and Wales. Thee British Isles are the set of islands off the north west coast of Europe! Just to confuse matters
:-D

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Oct 24 - 09:48 AM

Oh, and just to annoy the Irish nationalists, the second largest island of the group, Ireland, is also part of the British isles. Nothing to do with politics or nationality - It is just a geographic classification :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: The Sandman
Date: 11 Oct 24 - 11:21 AM

Dave, I would not move to northern Ireland if i were you.I did not like the tension i experienced there

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Oct 24 - 12:11 PM

I have a question and I'll try to remember to come back for the answer. Or someone can send a PM if it would start a squabble.

Where does a site like this - UK Column - fit in with some of your opinions regarding national and world politics from a UK perspective? https://www.ukcolumn.org/video/uk-column-news-30th-september-2024 I was pointed to the site and landed on this recent story because a US friend was opining about an unnamed (but we all knew it was his ex-spouse) former friend who has taken a dark turn in her political views. A few minutes in she starts to speak; I didn't listen to the whole program, but enough to realize I know very little about some of this stuff from the UK perspective. Who politically would this group align with?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Oct 24 - 01:06 PM

The stretch of coast I visited was very laid back, Dick. I understand it is a loyalist area so what they would make of an Englishman of Polish decent that was brought up in Ukrainian orthodoxy, educated Catholic and anti-religion by choice I have no idea :-)

Stilly - I don't know UK Column but a quick lookup indicates that it is quite factual with most of its news but also aligns itself with right wing conspiracy theories. With that synopsis I would not trust them but maybe that is a bit blinkered. I dunno!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Oct 24 - 01:18 PM

That's pretty much the quick read I took on the site - down some conspiracy rabbit holes, but the "about" page suggests they want to be truthful but don't trust news organizations.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: The Sandman
Date: 12 Oct 24 - 02:36 AM

but don't trust news organizations. quote
And rightly so
all foreign political news is biased from the point of view of who is writing it whether it is USA CHINA RUSSIA, They all use political news as propaganda

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Oct 24 - 03:31 AM

Teacher asked little Billy to use "propagana" in a sentence

"I saw a really good bike in the shop the other day but didn't get a good look. Next time I pass I'll have a proper gander"

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 Oct 24 - 11:38 PM

Did you take a look, Dick? It's a UK site.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Oct 24 - 03:19 AM

”His Excellency Keir Starmer”

I dunno about propaganda, but I don’t trust a news organisation that is so slack in its attention to detail that it can’t even get the Prime Minister’s appellation right. As PM, he’s a member of the Privy Council, and thus the correct appellation is ‘The Right Honourable’.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Oct 24 - 11:45 AM

I would try and approach their opinions with an open mind, i would still challenge everything they say, the same as if I was listening to BBC news.Back woodsman has made a valid point about attention to detail.
i am busy at the moment preparing a music lesson, and then i want to listen to les miserables, so i will give it a try , if you think i really need to

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Oct 24 - 12:21 PM

Brian Gerrish, according to the internet has a dislike of fabians communists marxists etc, he is probably right wing anti establishment, he has not yet said much about immigrants, ,but he could be playing his cards close to his chest, extreme right wing conservative?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Oct 24 - 01:16 PM

Gerrish sounds like an EU-hating nut-job. Best ignored.

Low-down on Brian Gerrish

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Raggytash
Date: 14 Oct 24 - 01:40 PM

"Back woodsman has made a valid point about attention to detail.
i am busy at the moment preparing a music lesson, and then i want to listen to les miserables, so i will give it a try , if you think i really need to"

You couldn't make it up or could "i" "Back woodsman" and I am pretty sure that "les miserables" should be "Les Miserables"

;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Thompson
Date: 14 Oct 24 - 02:41 PM

Les Misérables?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Raggytash
Date: 14 Oct 24 - 02:54 PM

You are correct Thompson and if I had more knowledge about the use of keyboards .....................

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Oct 24 - 03:47 PM

Backwoodsman, that Wiki page was quite an eye-opener. Thanks!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Thompson
Date: 15 Oct 24 - 03:22 AM

Raggytash, when I used Windows machines, I think the way to get acute accents was ctrl-alt-something and the vowel; however, looking it up, apparently it's now CTRL + ‘ (Apostrophe) + letter. On a Mac it's Option plus the letter.

Separately, I see to my astonished horror that the UK's current government plans to rent out the unemployed as guinnea pigs to a pharmaceutical giant "to get them back to work".
I'm all for people losing weight and getting fit; however, a mass grant of bicycles for the jobless, plus founding cycle touring clubs across the countries would do this in a more enjoyable and moral way.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Oct 24 - 09:10 AM

I know a bloke called Les who is pretty miserable...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Thompson
Date: 15 Oct 24 - 10:13 AM

Now that I read the piece again a second, less choleric time, that medicine isn't quite as experimental as it seems; it's already used for Type 2 Diabetes.
But linking obesity to worklessness (and by implication, "fat and lazy", if I'm not taking too far a step) seems horrible; also, how voluntary exactly is this experiment going to be?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Oct 24 - 11:08 AM

It's the carbs that are killing folks with diabetes. The government should provide a good high fat and protein diet to those folks by way of experiment and watch them get slim and healthy (more of a keto approach than a chemical approach). Great experiment, that one.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Oct 24 - 11:15 AM

The trouble with carbs is that they suffer from zero hydrate,so they are diminishing in form

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 20 Oct 24 - 07:24 PM

A bit surprised, or maybe I’m not, that there has so far been no mention of the sudden death of Alex Salmond on 12th October while away in Macedonia. Whatever you may think of him and his politics, or the rather drawn out court case in more recent years, he was undoubtedly a hugely important figure on the Scottish political scene over a good many years. Controversy seemed to follow him around, even down to who should “Bring him home” for you Les Mis fans - should it be the RAF, the Scottish Govt, his travel insurers or, as happened in the end, a friend and private benefactor, Sir Tom Hunter.
RIP Alex, with thanks for all the positive things you did for Scotland : free prescriptions, free university tuition for Scottish students, scrapping bridge tolls, etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Oct 24 - 03:38 AM

RIP Alex,
free prescriptions, free university tuition for Scottish students, scrapping bridge tolls,all good achievements

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Oct 24 - 04:19 AM

Agreed. He certainly did some good things. Condolences to his loved ones.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Oct 24 - 02:43 PM

LINK SOURCE INDEPENDENThttps://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-starmer-labour-b2630357.html?utm_source=pocket-newtab-en-gb

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Oct 24 - 06:06 PM

I do wish you wouldn't just post links without comment, Dick. We have no idea what it is and many people will not just follow random links. Please provide a description and the reason you are posting it. Prefereably with some view of your own too.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 24 Oct 24 - 07:46 AM

Surely Andrew Bailey should be pulling his finger out, and printing about 3 billion £10 notes to Europe as settlement, making sure that the transactin does not appear on any officia treasury or bank of england record - then do the same to compenste (1) the treasury for loss of tax revnue form loss of access to overseas employees, and (2) loss of dorporation tax revenues form exports, and compensate us as well.... as long as the transactions are 'plain brown paper pages crammed full of banknotes' there is no economic impact.
RANT OVER

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Oct 24 - 08:00 AM

I posted this on the US Election thread too. It does cross boundaries

The odious Farage, who supports the orange one, is up in arms. It seems that even though he has spent time and money supporting Trump himself, no-one from the Labour party is allowed to support Harris. In the report is says "British allies of Trump drew a distinction between the actions of an opposition politician and the governing party." So, a very Trumpian one law for us and one for everyone else.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Oct 24 - 04:57 PM

Dave, it was this
Staggering cost of Britain’s Brexit divorce revealed – and there’s billions more to pay EU

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Oct 24 - 01:57 AM

people are capable of forming opinions without me givng mine, giving my opinion is unnecessary

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Oct 24 - 04:38 AM

People do not form opinions because of other people's views, Dick, but some are interested in what you think. The whole point of a discussion is to exchange ideas and, to that end, it is pretty pointless just to post a random link with no indication of why you have done it. When you post a link it is just common courtesy to say what it is about and why you think other people may be interested.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Oct 24 - 04:39 AM

Oh, and 800 :-)