BS: The other recipe thread is too long

Subject: RE: BS: The other recipe thread is too long
From: Charmion
Date: 17 May 21 - 10:52 AM

Having been brought up on Keen's dry mustard mixed into a paste by my English-raised Dad, I found German mustard bland and boring. Dijon mustard works because of its vinegary bite, but the American version isn't worth the trouble.

The curry sauce that makes currywurst of any ol' sausage (but usually bratwurst) is a Dutch confection originating in their long-gone Indonesian colonies and adopted by the Germans in the 1960s for their nascent fast-food industry. I first saw it on "Schnell Imbiss" counters when I was a young soldier in the 70s.


If you like that kind of thing, it's the kind of thing you like. I never liked ketchup so curry sauce held zero appeal for me, but I know many people who became firmly addicted at first taste, usually experienced within hours of arriving at Schiphol Airport.

Subject: RE: BS: The other recipe thread is too long
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 17 May 21 - 03:01 PM

...so currywurst has nothing to do with English soldiers being stationed in Germany after WW2, Charmion?

Subject: RE: BS: The other recipe thread is too long
From: Charmion
Date: 17 May 21 - 03:59 PM

British soldiers, WAV. I'm sure some of them were English, but the Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish were not.

Of course it has to do with soldiers, not just British but also Americans and Canadians, and air force people too, the whole benighted NATO garrison in what was then West Germany -- including me. But civilians travelled in Europe, too, and by the 1970s there were a hell of a lot more of them.

Subject: RE: BS: The other recipe thread is too long
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 17 May 21 - 04:24 PM

I don't remember currywurst from my visit to Berlin in 1988; as I've mentioned before on Mudcat, I do remember and wrote a poem about signing the reunion book when I came back from East Berlin through Checkpoint Charlie...but, despite a couple of attempts, including emails to museums there, I can't find what happened to that book.

Maybe I will manage a return visit to Berlinnext year and find it then..? That poem is here if you wish to look.

Subject: RE: BS: The other recipe thread is too long
From: Mrrzy
Date: 18 May 21 - 09:18 AM

I don't think of German mustard as sweet. It is Dijon-like but grainy, in my US experience.

Subject: RE: BS: The other recipe thread is too long
From: Charmion
Date: 18 May 21 - 10:37 AM

The mustard I remember from Germany (more than 40 years ago, mind you) had much the same texture as Dijon mustard, but it was less vinegary and sometimes blended with honey. I found the version labelled "Feuer Senf" disappointingly bland. I see the same brands of German mustard for sale here in Stratford, and they seem even blander now.

Whole-seed mustard was not popular in southwestern Germany in the 70s, and I first encountered it in France where it was served with pot-au-feu. In Canada, you could buy it at gourmet shops, and by about 1995 it had made the leap to supermarkets. The French brand Maille is most popular, and it has the same piquant, vinegary flavour profile as Dijon. German whole-seed mustard is also sold here, but I never buy it so I don't know how it differs from the Maille version.

Subject: RE: BS: The other recipe thread is too long
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 18 May 21 - 12:26 PM

I used to live not far away in Walthamstow, Charmion, and one of the positives was the wide variety of foods available.

Subject: RE: BS: The other recipe thread is too long
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 May 21 - 12:31 PM

In the US we have mustard out the wazzoo these days. And the discount gourmet warehouse grocery where I shop has a aisle of fancy mustards. I get the ground whole seed varieties instead of things like "honey mustard" that are too sweet. And I stay away from anything with horseradish. Way too hot.

Subject: RE: BS: The other recipe thread is too long
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 May 21 - 12:40 PM

I might have mustard (though rarely) on a ham sandwich, or to spice up a mackerel pâté or something, and it's great in piccalilli, but I never want it unadorned on my plate. I regard mustard with seeds in to be greatly overrated... Horseradish sauce is a sine qua non on a roast beef butty.

Which Stratford are we talking about here? I taught in Walthamstow from 1980 to 1986 in a terrible school...

Subject: RE: BS: The other recipe thread is too long
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 18 May 21 - 01:35 PM

...there was no mention of "upon Avon", Steve! Never lived there but have enjoyed visiting.

Subject: RE: BS: The other recipe thread is too long
From: Jos
Date: 18 May 21 - 04:09 PM

I think Charmion is in Stratford, Ontario.
No doubt she will correct ne if I'm wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: The other recipe thread is too long
From: Charmion
Date: 18 May 21 - 04:22 PM

I am, indeed, on the other side of the Herring Pond, in deepest Perth County, Ontario.

It’s not humble, but it’s home.

Subject: RE: BS: The other recipe thread is too long
From: Mrrzy
Date: 18 May 21 - 04:42 PM

Ooh I *love* horseradish. I have neen putting some in everything lately.

I love good [Dijon-style] mustard, grainy or no.

Every once in a while I have an actual hot dog, in which case that yellow goop Americans call mustard is actually good.

If there is sauerkraut, though, which I ptefer, *then* Dijon or German mustard. The yellow is only good on otherwise plain hot dogs.

Subject: RE: BS: The other recipe thread is too long
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 18 May 21 - 04:50 PM

Sincere apologies, Charmion...I'll see if I can get hold of a hair shirt in Manchester, England.

When I occasionally break my veganity, Mrrzy, and stop at a hot dot stand, I like it with onions, ketchup and what seems to be American mustard.

Subject: RE: BS: The other recipe thread is too long
From: Charmion
Date: 18 May 21 - 07:36 PM

You can find town names from all over the British Isles in Ontario, but we don’t have a Walthamstow.

I checked.

Subject: RE: BS: The other recipe thread is too long
From: Donuel
Date: 18 May 21 - 08:15 PM

Horseradish is more than a tasty cocktail sauce. When used liberally in tuna salad it becomes a new dish along with mustard.

Subject: RE: BS: The other recipe thread is too long
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 19 May 21 - 02:30 AM

Horseradish is great on smoked fish and beef.

Dave H

Subject: RE: BS: The other recipe thread is too long
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 19 May 21 - 02:58 AM

I quite like horseradish sauce but I don’t think it’s ever been anything we’ve felt we’ve needed to have in the cupboard. We did have some horseradish just left to grow in the garden for a couple of years though. Had the devil of a job getting rid off it.

English mustard for me. We’ve got both powdered and ready made in the cupboard.

It had to be Coleman’s of course. After all it was made in Carrow, Norwich and Norwich City play at Carrow Road. But maybe one day, I should look for something else as Unilever in 2019 ended 160 years of mustard production in the city...

Subject: RE: BS: The other recipe thread is too long
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 May 21 - 04:13 AM

In general, I'm not a fan of having a strongly-flavoured sauce or relish on my plate with food that is otherwise mild in flavour. For example, whilst I like the taste of cranberry sauce I don't want it on my turkey dinner. A bit of mint sauce on roast lamb is good because the lamb has a fairly assertive flavour itself. Piccalilli is grand on a sandwich which contains a nice tangy cheese. Horseradish on a roast beef butty is a challenge to get right. If you're too timid with it, you can't taste it. A smidgeon too much and your eyes are a-watering - not good. Tommy K can be good on a bacon butty or with a spicy sausage but I usually leave it off. I can't stand apple sauce - sour and sloppy (I never eat apple pie either). I regard things such as Branson Pickle as devil's vomit. One man's fish is another man's poisson...

Subject: RE: BS: The other recipe thread is too long
From: BobL
Date: 19 May 21 - 04:29 AM

Now I could never stand horseradish myself, nor English mustard. They both have unpleasant and overpowering flavours, even in near-subliminal quantities, which ruin anything to which they're added. At least they do so for me - some things must just taste different to different folks I guess.

Subject: RE: BS: The other recipe thread is too long
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 19 May 21 - 05:23 AM

Different things but both Branston pickle and cranberry sauce are things I'll eat but would rather not have on the plate.

Apple sauce (sorta). We've got a few cookers and mum wants to make a crumble with them. I have to help these days (putting in and out of cooker and maybe reaching something from a cupboard) but I look forward to it. And our own small Bramley tree is looking quite good so far this year..

Subject: RE: BS: The other recipe thread is too long
From: Jos
Date: 19 May 21 - 07:09 AM

I found this confusing:

" We've got a few cookers and mum wants to make a crumble with them. I have to help these days (putting in and out of cooker ..."

until I realised that, while "putting in and out of cooker" was referring to the cooking stove, "a few cookers" meant a few cooking apples, rather than too many kitchen appliances.

Subject: RE: BS: The other recipe thread is too long
From: Charmion
Date: 19 May 21 - 07:12 AM

Apple sauce is often served with roast or grilled pork in these parts. Like Steve, I find it too wet and not right in the flavour department. I make a kick-ass chutney that does the job much better for me, but is probably too spicy to pass the Shaw taste-test.

The best use for apple purée, in my opinion, is in baking. I have some American recipes for cake, muffins and other soda-raised bready items that include apple sauce instead of milk, and they work very well — tasty, moist and with a nicely textured crumb. Now, if only I could figure out a vegan substitute for egg I could feed them to my fussy nephew.

Subject: RE: BS: The other recipe thread is too long
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 19 May 21 - 07:54 AM

English mustard on a good pork pie, sublime, nowt else will do.

Dave H

Subject: RE: BS: The other recipe thread is too long
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 19 May 21 - 09:59 AM

LOL, Sorry Jos. I tend to think of apples as "cookers" and "eaters" and one tree we still have but no longer fruits as a "juicer" (and a few years back, we'd juice loads and store the juice in a freezer).

I gather that we in the UK are a bit unusual in having things like Bramleys just for cooking. I think Australia for example uses the Granny Smith as "multi-purpose", ie. "eater" and "cooker".

Subject: RE: BS: The other recipe thread is too long
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 19 May 21 - 12:02 PM

I like Bramley apple pie with single soya cream...not sure if suchlike or tofu would work with your baking, Charmion..?

There is a pic of my, alternative, scrambled tofu on toast here.

Subject: RE: BS: The other recipe thread is too long
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 May 21 - 12:29 PM

The good Lord made apples to pluck from the tree and immediately sink your teeth into. I have no use for apples aside from that. I don't even like cider...

Subject: RE: BS: The other recipe thread is too long
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 19 May 21 - 12:42 PM

I got 3 galas on my last shop and enjoyed them - with a knife (without this aid, some of my teeth would probably end up in the apple - no porkies).

In the summer/when thirsty, I like a cider but, otherwise, I do love a sherry.

Subject: RE: BS: The other recipe thread is too long
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 19 May 21 - 12:57 PM

Of course cider can use a different type of apple again... I believe West Country ciders are made from from bitter cider apples but a Norfolk cider can use sweet dessert apples. I'm not sure what Bulmers (Hereford) use.

Then there are the white ciders like Diamond White and Omega that at least used to be cheap ways of getting pissed (UK usage, Americans can think that means angry even without the "off" added) but could leave one debating whether they had known a real apple in their production.

Subject: RE: BS: The other recipe thread is too long
From: Charmion
Date: 19 May 21 - 02:43 PM

Ontario craft brewers have taken up cider-making in a big way. I buy only the kind with the ingredients listed on the can, and only if the list consists of one item: apples. I am spoiled for choice.

The Gravenstein apple is popular here, originally for juice but now also for cider. It’s not much good as an eater (i.e., raw in the hand), but it’s also excellent for cooking.

The Northern Spy is a late bearer, so it is now less popular than the Gravenstein, but in my opinion it is the best cooking apple available in this part of the world.

Ontario cooks (like me) can go on for hours about apple varieties.

Subject: RE: BS: The other recipe thread is too long
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 May 21 - 08:50 AM

I've just made a big pot of caponata, following the Ottolenghi recipe (it's online). I let it mature for a couple of days and we're having it with some crusty bread this evening. I did include a chopped courgette and I left out the raisins (I don't care for them at all in savoury things such as kofkas and pasta con le sarde). It tastes very promising. The aubergines don't half soak up the oil, and if we find it a bit oily I'll use a different method next time. Jamie Oliver's recipe is much-praised and it's easier to do, though, oddly, he leaves out the celery, which would make many a Sicilian hopping mad...

Subject: RE: BS: The other recipe thread is too long
From: Mrrzy
Date: 20 May 21 - 09:35 AM

Cider just tastes like the apple juice went off, to me.

Subject: RE: BS: The other recipe thread is too long
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 20 May 21 - 12:37 PM

...and cheese like off milk, Mrrzy?!

Subject: RE: BS: The other recipe thread is too long
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 May 21 - 05:21 PM

The caponata was gorgeous. It's very filling and we have enough left for a pasta sauce tomorrow (Yotam's recommendation). Caponata is vegan and low in carbohydrate (though high in oil, thanks to those aubergines soaking it up). To go with it I bought a ciabatta and made some garlic bread in the end. My way is to chop up a garlic clove or two and marinate it in extra virgin olive oil. I then brush the oil on to both sides of the ciabatta slices and toast 'em. No butter, no cheese. We are happy!

Subject: RE: BS: The other recipe thread is too long
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 20 May 21 - 05:50 PM

I visited Sicily in 1988 (I seem to recall the Olympics was on a TV in a cafe), Steve, but sadly didn't come across caponata - sounds delicious with either bread or pasta...but which pasta..?

Subject: RE: BS: The other recipe thread is too long
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 May 21 - 06:27 PM

Short pasta for me. Funnily enough we've been debating just that this evening. I think that the best pasta in the world comes from Gragnano in the Bay of Naples. Happily, several varieties are available these days even in supermarkets. They are generally around £1.70 for a 500g bag, so even expensive pasta is cheap (as with good rice). There's a lovely short tube pasta in Sainsbury's called (I think) mezze rigate, one shaped like little curly trumpets in Tesco called gigli and one made of coiled thin hollow tubes in Waitrose called bucati spirali, all made in Gragnano and all wonderful. Whatever pasta you choose, make sure it's been made using bronze dies, which makes for a much better texture for holding the sauce. It might say "bronzo" on the pack. Pasta water should be as salty as the Mediterranean and should never contain oil. In Italy, it's a mortal sin to leave the kitchen once the pasta pan is on. And the pasta is added to the pan containing the sauce along with some pasta water, never vice versa and generally not drained in a sieve (if you do that, catch some pasta water in a jug). The most abject sight on earth is a pile of spaghetti on a plate with a heap of sauce dumped on top. That is just so English. Even worse, accompanied by a tub of months-old ready-grated Parmesan.

Subject: RE: BS: The other recipe thread is too long
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 20 May 21 - 06:57 PM

Yes - I think we've said that before: bolognese sauce is certainly (northern) Italian, and spaghetti is certainly (southern) Italian; but spag bol is an English invention.

In Bologna they would have their sauce with a fresh pasta like tagliatelle.

Subject: RE: BS: The other recipe thread is too long
From: Charmion
Date: 21 May 21 - 12:46 PM

Your abject sight is also very Canadian, Steve. You have just reminded me of a certain kind of cheap restaurant that used to be found on the main street every Ontario town. The sign out front offered “Italian & Canadian Specialties”, and the special on Friday was always fish and chips.

Subject: RE: BS: The other recipe thread is too long
From: Mrrzy
Date: 22 May 21 - 09:41 AM

I remember Louis Wu avoiding cheese as if it were spoiled milk...

Subject: RE: BS: The other recipe thread is too long
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 May 21 - 10:04 AM

The leftover caponata as a pasta sauce was a triumph. I did top up the capers, added a sprinkle of dried oregano and threw in a handful of lightly-roasted cherry toms. We used the mezze rigate pasta from Gragnano, little tubes half the length of rigatoni. Cheese on top not needed. Perfect. The caponata has been so good that in future I'm sticking to Yotam's way. A few years ago we discovered Marché-style garlic cloves. The brand is D'Amico Specialíta. They are marinaded in oil and herbs. I haven't a clue what they do to them to eliminate the hot, garlicky taste, but you can eat them by the dozen, nice and crunchy, with impunity. Gorgeous gorging. They're like those whole cloves that you sometimes get in garlic-stuffed olives. So it's Eurovision tonight and no cooking. Cheese, falafels, olives, garlic cloves, tomatoes, crisps...Prosecco, red wine...

Subject: RE: BS: The other recipe thread is too long
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 22 May 21 - 10:12 AM

You sound like a ' gourmand ' Steve.


Dave H

Subject: RE: BS: The other recipe thread is too long
From: Mrrzy
Date: 22 May 21 - 12:13 PM

Ok finally made good meatballs.

Saw a recipe that said Add *pureed* veg to the meat. So I food-processed some celery green pepper onion garlic with a bunch of spices, put half the ground meat flat into the bowl, half the veg, repeat, mixed minimally then used a scoop rather than making balls in my hands. Browned in goose fat with very slight effort at turning, added broth, some tomate paste and cauliflower, simmered till cauliflower cooked. The spices went nicely into the broth, the meatballs maintained integrity and had a great texture. Beef only, this batch.

Subject: RE: BS: The other recipe thread is too long
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 23 May 21 - 06:10 AM

I keep checking on here and hoping that Steve will put his good skills into our own good English fare.

The Two Fat Ladies (RIP) had no problem championing English dishes and found plenty of variety therein.

However, their programmes were very much the exception to the rule in modern multicultural England - as I've tweeted many times, most of the BBC's Saturday Kitchen, e.g., is foreigners presenting their cuisine and English presenting foreign fare, very sadly.

...

Subject: RE: BS: The other recipe thread is too long
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 May 21 - 06:40 AM

Well tonight I'm roasting a free-range chicken from a farm near Crediton in Devon. The carrots and the spuds I'm roasting are Scottish, the cauliflower is Cornish. The stuffing will be made from local sausage meat that I buy from a butcher in Bude who also has a farm (he rears the best lamb you could ever get your hands on and his sausages are to die for). I grew the parsnips myself, which I'll baste with Cornish butter (from Trewithen dairy, the only brand of butter we've bought for about 15 years) and home-grown fresh thyme and parsley, and we make our own gravy from the roasting tin juices. I bought the chipolatas in Waitrose and they say Duchy Originals on the packet. When we have cold chicken tomorrow it will be with Jersey RoyaIs and broad beans I grew myself. Is that good enough?

The wine will, however, be Italian...

Subject: RE: BS: The other recipe thread is too long
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 23 May 21 - 06:53 AM

Yes, thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: The other recipe thread is too long
From: Jos
Date: 23 May 21 - 10:03 AM

I didn't know that Clarissa Dickson Wright had died, so I checked and yes, she died in 2014.
What I also found was her full name - Clarissa Theresa Philomena Aileen Mary Josephine Agnes Elsie Trilby Louise Esmerelda Dickson Wright

That must have made filling in forms a bit difficult.

Subject: RE: BS: The other recipe thread is too long
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 23 May 21 - 10:17 AM

Apparently, they didn't always get on but were equally strong minded, such that I'd imagine if a BBC producer started saying they need to promote diversity more, they'd both reach, equally quickly, for a rolling pin!

Subject: RE: BS: The other recipe thread is too long
From: Donuel
Date: 25 May 21 - 08:56 PM

12,ooo years ago rock paintings around the world depicted the things they liked to eat, kinda like this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: The other recipe thread is too long
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 20 Jun 21 - 05:30 PM

I've missed the potato pies I used to occasionally buy from a SPAR store (not all stock them) on the way to work, but got a good tip from James Martin on TV this morning:

After frying mushrooms and other vegetables in a pan (he added chicken also), simply roll out a sheet of pastry over the top, crimp it to the pan edges, then place in the oven for about 25 minutes - if, as with mine, the frying pan is not all metal, from Steve (above), tinfoil may be used over the handle.

I shall give that a go shortly...

(As Donuel suggests, we have discussed pies here a couple of months or so ago.)

Subject: RE: BS: The other recipe thread is too long
From: Thompson
Date: 20 Jun 21 - 06:29 PM

At a moment of particular poverty, more or less the only meat we ate was either rabbit or kid, roasted whole over vegetables in a pot on the hob, or else roasted whole then stewed with added stock and vegetables. Both were very cheap from a butcher that got them from the leather and fur trade.
I can't remember which it was that was cooking when my teenager came in, lifted the pot and said, "Ah, abortion again", and wandered off. I relented and started buying the odd 'normal' meat!
I find rabbit much enriched by about half a bottle of a deep-flavoured red wine.
One of the chefs interviewed in The Irish Times last week about where he buys his ingredients said he used coconut vinegar from one of the oriental shops, which sounds like a very interesting concept indeed.