BS: Is the new age of folk upon us?

Subject: Is the new age of folk upon us?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 26 Apr 09 - 02:38 PM

When Adam delved, and Eve span, who was then the gentleman?

All the bets are on a conservative landslide at the next UK general erection. The folly of New Labour adopting capitalist neoliberalism will, thanks to the even greater folly of the general public, be visited upon their only chance of a short recession - the only significant party wedded to economic stimulus.

One thing about Alistair Darling's budget that cannot intelligently be gainsaid is "You cannot cut your way out of a recession". But the lunatic right will get their landslide, and like lunatics, will cut - and so cut off our heads.

What will they do then?

Why, they will try to force lump-labour to work for nothing, to make money for the monied.

So the new Tolpuddle, and the new St George's Fields, will be upon us.

The folk tradition, of curse, is rooted in the dispossession of the working class, be they agrarian or be they in the smoke and the fire of the industrial revolution.

If the working class become so impoverished and oppressed that they are unable like cattle to consume the factory fodder that the entertainment industry feeds them, all of which seems very likely, will we see (and not before time) the resurrection of "do it yourself" music and the recognition of the continuity with the "do it yourself" music of our foreparents?

Subject: RE: Is the new age of folk upon us?
From: Vic Smith
Date: 26 Apr 09 - 03:03 PM

Richard Bridge asked:-

will we see (and not before time) the resurrection of "do it yourself" music and the recognition of the continuity with the "do it yourself" music of our foreparents?

It is unlikely that the past will ever come back. We will still be living in a technology-and-information-rich society - recession or no recession - and the vast number of alternatives to "do it yourself" music is likely to increase exponentially.

Subject: RE: Is the new age of folk upon us?
From: The Barden of England
Date: 26 Apr 09 - 03:32 PM

And, of course, the 'Right is might' brigade will do what the evil Thatcher did and freeze pensions, for the wrinklies don't work and are therefore not subject to the new 'surfdom' to come. So impoverish them, and force them to sell their meagre posessions just to eat. Politicians - - - a curse on each and every one!!! Oh for a tax free hand out for a second home.

John Barden

Subject: RE: Is the new age of folk upon us?
From: romany man
Date: 26 Apr 09 - 03:39 PM

could sell ya a good vardo an oss cuz, i got a sicond ome, its anywhere i park it , till the baulos turn up an kick me ofn the bit o grass, hope to see ya at rochester dunno wot day tho,

Subject: RE: Is the new age of folk upon us?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 26 Apr 09 - 03:44 PM

'ere we go again

Subject: RE: Is the new age of folk upon us?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 26 Apr 09 - 03:46 PM

When you have to choose between the internet connection, and a meal, Vic, what then?

Subject: RE: Is the new age of folk upon us?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 26 Apr 09 - 03:47 PM

PS, RM, I got a trailer and a Volvo, does that count?

Subject: RE: Is the new age of folk upon us?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 26 Apr 09 - 03:47 PM

Even if do it yourself music increases it is likely to be polluted by the technology and information at the fingertips of the composer.

Song lyrics and music will NOT be coming from individuals impoverished of wider experience and so they will lack authenticity and soul of the pure experience we find in tradtional songs. Only a very few singer songwriters will make the mark in future as they do now.

I do not see an increase in qualintity of high quality songs.

Subject: RE: Is the new age of folk upon us?
From: The Barden of England
Date: 26 Apr 09 - 03:48 PM

Got a small vardo cuz - might have to do with that and make some 'Marks in the Grass' along with a nice bit of tax free squirrel ;-)

John Barden

Subject: RE: Is the new age of folk upon us?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 26 Apr 09 - 03:49 PM

bugger this new keyboard - nothing is in the right place.

that is quantity of high quality.

Subject: RE: Is the new age of folk upon us?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 26 Apr 09 - 03:49 PM

The Torys laid their cards on the table when Cameron said he would reverse the decision in the budget to take the caviar from the impoverished mouths of those earning more than £150,000 a year, so that the greedy older people on a pittance of a state pension squander a fortune both heating their homes and eating!

Subject: RE: BS: Is the new age of folk upon us?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 26 Apr 09 - 03:53 PM

And what is the point of quality state education, the capitalists don't need educated workers to do their dirty work = God forbid if the workers should expect decent pay. Which party opposed the minimum wage?

Subject: RE: BS: Is the new age of folk upon us?
From: The Barden of England
Date: 26 Apr 09 - 03:59 PM

They know that the electorate are so myopic, colour blind and senseless they they can't see, notice nor taste sh*t when it's being fed to them by the bucket load. I will vote with my head, not my pocket.
John Barden

Subject: RE: BS: Is the new age of folk upon us?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 26 Apr 09 - 04:01 PM

This was not a BS subject, it was a music subject, the primary point being the effect of oppression upon music.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the new age of folk upon us?
From: The Barden of England
Date: 26 Apr 09 - 04:03 PM

Agreed Richard - thread drift on my part.
John Barden

Subject: RE: BS: Is the new age of folk upon us?
From: Rasener
Date: 26 Apr 09 - 04:12 PM

No
The new age of younger performers taking over from the older ones is upon us.
Natural progression.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the new age of folk upon us?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 26 Apr 09 - 04:15 PM

why the hell is this in the bullshit section?

Subject: RE: BS: Is the new age of folk upon us?
From: Rasener
Date: 26 Apr 09 - 04:20 PM

Because Richard chose to make it BS

Subject: RE: BS: Is the new age of folk upon us?
From: Vic Smith
Date: 26 Apr 09 - 04:30 PM

Richard Bridge asked:-

When you have to choose between the internet connection, and a meal, Vic, what then?

Well, you would go for the meal, obviously, but I wonder if this is a fair and realistic question. I'd imagine that there are a lot of people like me on Mudcat who are retired and living on a not very big pension who, nevertheless, clearly have an internet connection. Two of my best friends are unemployed and on-line and likely to retain their computers.

Anyway, it's not just internet connection that I was talking about

In the decades when I was working in schools, I was always asking the pupils what music they were listening to, and if I liked what they were talking about, I would ask them to borrow their LPs/CDs. In this way, amongst a lot of rubbish, I first got to listen to Bob Marley, Madness, UB40, The Police, Ian Dury, Tracy Chapman and a lot of other music that I thoroughly approved of and could speak to the kids about. In the last years before I retired, my question about what music they were listening to would be likely to draw a blank look and the explanation that they were spending their pocket money on software for their Game Boys or whatever the current hand-held hardware was.

If these youngsters were not listening to music they were unlikely to have the musicians that they admire to attract them to "do it yourself" music.

.....And by responding to the socio-technological aspect of your initial posting rather than its political points, I was hoping for sanity, because going down the political route on Mudcat never seems to lead to a sensible discussion.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the new age of folk upon us?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 26 Apr 09 - 04:53 PM

Actually, no, I didn't make it BS - I posted it, as it was, as a music topic, and evidently a clone decided I had no right to do that.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the new age of folk upon us?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 26 Apr 09 - 04:56 PM

More political than musical me thinks, so therefore the BS section is the appropriate section

Subject: RE: BS: Is the new age of folk upon us?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Apr 09 - 10:35 PM

The really vital thing here is that Penelope Rutledge not have to let go any of the domestic staff...Rutledge House keeps 15 common people gainfully employed on a full time basis, and don't forget it!

Subject: RE: BS: Is the new age of folk upon us?
From: Rasener
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 12:07 AM

Oh sorry Richard, thought you had done it.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the new age of folk upon us?
From: theleveller
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 03:34 AM

Richard, it's a very good question. I suspect that the short answer is 'yes' but it may not be folk music as we know it. Punk, for instance, was orginally 'do-it-yourself' music and, I suppose, some mught consider it to be folk music - certainly music in the folk tradition. If the scenarion you paint does come to pass (and I fear that it might), I suspect that there will be a lot more direct action on the streets, maybe from the likes of me who, after working for over 40 years, feel dispossessed. With that action may come a new type of protest music. It's all quite exciting in a rather depressing way.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the new age of folk upon us?
From: Acorn4
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 03:43 AM

In the thirties Britain never managed to produce a Woody Guthrie, but I suppose we might this time around. Let's hope we don't need one.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the new age of folk upon us?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 03:57 AM

It's always easier to look back and explain changes in music than to predict the way music may change as society changes.

I have noticed that many pubs that sell food now offer "Credit Crunch Meals" - sausage and mash etc. for £3 and so on. May be this is an indication of where we might be going.

Folk has always been relatively cheap and even the best musicians have struggled to make much of a living. Perhaps it will get cheaper with clubs doing what most Singarounds and Sessions do and charge nothing. Their is a wealth of talent that does floor spots and odd guest nights - no shortage of people to sing and play - just an unemployed audience. Perhaps we will see a return to home brewed beer?

New Labour failed because capitalism has stumbled - quite badly this time but it will get up again. New Labour also failed because it has no socialist alternative but as far as I can tell no body else has either.

The problems with capitalism will soon be overshadowed by Climate Change. Perhaps a massive tax on carbon fuels will stop people using them. The money raised could go into research in Green technology?

Cheers

L in C

Subject: RE: BS: Is the new age of folk upon us?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 06:23 AM

With that action may come a new type of protest music. It's all quite exciting in a rather depressing way.

I know what you mean. Depressing to me for several reasons...

* I don't have the energy or talent (if I was so inclined) to get involved even in small inconsequential ways. Besides who is going to listen to a protest song by a 51 year old woman? Sour grapes anyone?
* I wish society/politics/whatever had not come to this sorry pass for the sake of the young who will suffer most and longest from it.
* I worry that the bulk of next generation song writers will not be in it for the sake of social change but only for the notoriety. They have trained up on You Tube and Big Brother and have come to expect instant fame. That mindset does not translate well to a protest movement.
* How much pain/art can one draw out of a life bombarded / desensitised by the media, rubbish tele/music and violent video games?

I think what I fear most is a fin de siècle malaise in the young. Yes that is very depressing.

AND This thread still needs to be moved back up to the music area!

Subject: RE: BS: Is the new age of folk upon us?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 06:29 AM

Has anyone checked? Perhaps there is a movement. Any chance that Goth will pick up the gauntlet? Or a splinter of Goth? Or is it already too old? God I feel old.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the new age of folk upon us?
From: The Barden of England
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 07:00 AM

Social change does tend to change the music, and the young tend to be the ones that do it with most zeal. I'm young in my head, it's just the body that knows otherwise. I've written the odd 'protest song' during the mid to late 90's (the last century not my age) which seem just as relevant now, but not about the way nor reasons of the latest mess. Perhaps I should lock myself away and try to. Just maybe.
John Barden

Subject: RE: BS: Is the new age of folk upon us?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 08:13 AM

Apparently Engels is all the go

L in C

Subject: RE: BS: Is the new age of folk upon us?
From: Hamish
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 08:23 AM

Two completely unrelated observations:

a) I thought this was going to be along the lines of the new Torydom would inspire such angst that a plethora of songs would be "inspired". After all, Maggie did a great service to spleen venting folk.

b) A lot of folk isn't cheap. Folk clubs often charge a couple of quid for a singaround; or five, ten or more pounds for a guest act. Many pubs have equally "good" music available for free.

Maybe the recession will encourage free open sessions.

--
Hamish

Subject: RE: BS: Is the new age of folk upon us?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 08:48 AM

I think most Fol is value for money - check out the price of tickets for Rock events

Cheers
L in C

Subject: RE: BS: Is the new age of folk upon us?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 08:57 AM

However a usable acoustic guitar is cheaper than most electrics + amp +then you need a drumkit +then you need a PA for the singer +etc, whereas I know one semi pro musician who play a Chantry that cost him £40 from a charity shop and I spotted an amateur last weekend also playing a Chantry presumably since he was out in the open air, when he has a very expensive 12-string at home and a pretty usable mid-range 6 string.

The US depression produced a wealth of hobo musicians and of course Woody Guthrie and in due course Pete Seeger.

There is a school of thought that the wealth of Irish music isrooted in the continued exploitation of Ireland by the English, and look at how much Scottish song is anti-English probably for a similar reason.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the new age of folk upon us?
From: theleveller
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 09:56 AM

Hopefully, we may get songs along the lines of : "Oh where, Oh Where Has My Little Porsche gone?", "From Bolly to Beer", "Lament for the Million Pound Bonus", "They Took Away My Second Home", "Buddy Can You Spare a Couple of Grand" and " I Dreamed I Saw Fred Goodwin Last Night".

Subject: RE: BS: Is the new age of folk upon us?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 11:08 AM

snarrkk! laffed so hard i started choking.

Northern Rock Candy Molehill
Hedge Fund-E-Bay
The Banks are Cloudy
Crying Stockmen (Dying Stockman)
A Wanker's Work is Never Done
Cleave Away Santander-oh

and a revival of

My Lodging it is on the Cold Ground - we all gonna be first home-less
The Two Magicians - about Madoff and Stanford


- god I am no good at this.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the new age of folk upon us?
From: theleveller
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 12:08 PM

To which, I might add:

'Red Braces in the Sunset'
'Hole in My Hand-Made Shoes'
'This Land Was My Land (but now it's been repossessed)'

Subject: RE: BS: Is the new age of folk upon us?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 12:09 PM

Maybe the recession will encourage free open sessions.

Oh, oh, are the sixties about to be recycled yet again? One can hope not.

Everything costs, it did back then too(in the sixties), but it was considered bad form (read "uncool") to point this out.

You want something, then be prepared to pay for it.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the new age of folk upon us?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 12:31 PM

It costs nothing, except the price of beer, for like-minded people to gather together sing songs, play tunes and enjoy each others company

L in C
Tunes in the Beech tomorrow?

Subject: RE: BS: Is the new age of folk upon us?
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 12:37 PM

The effect might be for the upper crust to lose their hearing.

As more self made folk music is being sung anywhere and everywhere, the more the affluent will turn up the volume on their i-pods.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the new age of folk upon us?
From: Rasener
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 12:44 PM

VirginiaTam >>A Wanker's Work is Never Done<<

There is already a song similar to that, but rude, so anybody who gets offended easily, shouldn't open it.

Ivor Biggun' - Winkers Song

Robert "Doc" Cox (born 1 July 1946 in Sheffield, Yorkshire), also known as Ivor Biggun, is a British musician and former television journalist. He is best known for his appearances on the BBC TV programme That's Life! from 1982 to 1989.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vbZKyB8L68&feature=related

Subject: RE: BS: Is the new age of folk upon us?
From: Musket
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 12:47 PM

Well, the recession may well increase the number of buskers...

Still take issue of course with the sweeping statement that folk music has its roots in working class struggle. I have looked at the score for many jigs & reels and cannot find a whinging envy in any of it?

Subject: RE: BS: Is the new age of folk upon us?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 01:42 PM

that folk music has its roots in working class struggle.

Ok..so we can say that murder ballads...Poor Murdered Woman..ummm The Murder of Maria Marten, Matty Groves etc..etc.. fit into your "working class struggle" generalisation?

And I still say this thread is where it belongs.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the new age of folk upon us?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 01:48 PM

So we can't mention the political and societal effects on music without it being considered bullshit. Well then we better move a lot of what is above the line down here into the Basement. But not the Susan Boyle and Britain's Got Talent threads because they are about real music.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the new age of folk upon us?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 02:13 PM

So what you're saying is that the only "real" music is that which speaks of "political and societal effects" and the great "working class struggle" I don't see a mass conversion to "folk" music anytime soon. Let people enjoy what they want to enjoy instead of having someone elses "world" view forced on them, be it Pop Idol, Britain's Got Talent, The Radio Ballads, Folk Waves or even Susan Boyle. Choice is what it's all about.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the new age of folk upon us?
From: Rasener
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 02:16 PM

I agree with you Rifleman

Now where is my bullet

Subject: RE: BS: Is the new age of folk upon us?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 02:19 PM

Snork - Thank you The Villan for the W*anker Song. Once there I had have a listen to the Halfway up Virginia as well.

Pure curiousity you understand.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the new age of folk upon us?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 02:31 PM

Rifleman

Don't spin my bit of sarcasm, into to something it is not. I am not talking world view or forcing any kind of music on anyone.

Nothing so big as that.

What I am talking about it, is whether or not this thread belongs above or below the line. It belongs above as much or more as Britain's Got Talent.

It is about music.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the new age of folk upon us?
From: MartinRyan
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 02:44 PM

In the first posting to this thread:
The folk tradition, of curse, is rooted in the dispossession of the working class, be they agrarian or be they in the smoke and the fire of the industrial revolution.

Love that!

Regards

Subject: RE: BS: Is the new age of folk upon us?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 02:59 PM

The folk tradition, of curse, is rooted in the dispossession of the working class, be they agrarian or be they in the smoke and the fire of the industrial revolution.


Oh I do love that *LOL*
The answer, regardless, is no it's not.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the new age of folk upon us?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 03:22 PM

"The folk tradition, of curse, is rooted in the dispossession of the working class, be they agrarian or be they in the smoke and the fire of the industrial revolution".

The folky lefties like to think this, but any dispossession of the working class ceases to be of any consequence, now that we have the ongoing dispossession of the middle class.