BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...

Subject: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: Bobert
Date: 30 May 12 - 06:00 PM

Had a terrible experience today... Behind the house is about 100 acres of woods and I have maybe a half mile of dirt roads I've cleared with my tractor... One such road is only about 40 feet deep in the woods and goes down to a creek... The woods between the road and the tree line is dense so the cats spend a lot of time in there hunting for stuff... Mostly voles...

Well, this morning I had a load of crappy dirt I had dug out for a footer and was taking it back to dump in some low spots in the road down by the creek when...

...I saw something in the middle of the road heading toward the house...

It was a big, big snapping turtle... Probably 40 pounds worth... Now I've been able to get snapping turtles out of roads by holding out a long stick, let them bite it and drag them out of the road to safety...

There was no way I was going to get this turtle out of them woods and all I was thinkin' is that one of the two outdoor cats was gonna find it, paw at it and end up dead or crippled... So...

...I shot him!!! And I feel terrible... I have never, ever killed a turtle... I stop and get 'um off highways...

I feel terrible... Absolutely terrible... I mean, maybe I could have... Or... Or... I've been trying to think of anything else I could have done... Oh, sure, he might have wandered off... But then he might killed one of my cats...

I feel terrible... My karma is messed up and I'm sure that something bad will happen to me for what I have done...

I feel terrible...

B:~(

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 30 May 12 - 06:05 PM

You could write a song - a bit like Bob Marley....

I Shot the Turtle

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 30 May 12 - 06:13 PM

Geez. I hardly know what to say. I didn't realize you was this sensitive to the lives of other creatures, Bobert, specially humble ones like that turtle. I think this speaks well for you. After all, you care, right? A lotta people wouldn't give a hoot. This shows you got a big heart.

It's too bad you shot that turtle. I don't know what you can do about it now except...well, do some nice things for some other animals that need help, I guess. That's how I'd pay off the karmic debt, if there is one.

And remember that none of us is perfect. We all done some things now and then that we regret.

- Chongo

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: Leadfingers
Date: 30 May 12 - 06:31 PM

Hey Bobert - One thing I DONT envy you guys over the pnd is some of your wild life . I Know how you fel though - I dont even kill wasps , and I HAVE seen Snapping Tutles , and wouldnt even try to move one with a LONG pole ! As Chongo said , make it up to other animals , and remember that you have saved your cats a VERY unpleasant exprience

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: Midchuck
Date: 30 May 12 - 07:05 PM

So how many flatpicks did you end up with?

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: gnu
Date: 30 May 12 - 07:06 PM

I dunno squat about em but, if you decided to shoot it, that musta been the right thing ta do at the time. I am sure there will be all sorts of posts about what ya coulda/shoulda done but ya done what ya had ta do eh?

As fer remorse, karma, second thoughts or 20-20 hindsight or all the peeps that are gonna post, I know how ya feel. Been there. Done that. More than once.

Odd thing. Just this AM at about 4 I had a recollection about a porcupine from 30 years ago... got somethin ta do with thinkin about my uncle who is on his way out... memories of huntin trips I guess. I won't tell the story but it's somewhat similar. That porky had to go but I still feel bad about takin it out.

Just the fact that you feel remorse means a lot. Sometimes, ya gotta do what ya gotta do eh?

Are you able to use it in some way or donate it to someone who can use it?

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 30 May 12 - 07:21 PM

I know the feeling, Boberdz. I shot a good-sized diamondback rattlesnake a few months back because he was in my driveway and crawling toward the house, about fifty feet away. Most of the time, I go out of my way to let rattlers live, and I'd never dream of hurting a nonpoisonous snake. When I see 'em on the roadside, I'll stop and have a conversation with 'em instead of runnin' 'em over like my redneck neighbors are wont to do. But, every now and then, a rattler or a cottonmouth wanders into where he's not welcome and then it's, "BOOM! Sorry about that, Mr. Snake. Have a nice rebirth. Why dontcha try comin' back as somethin' everybody likes, like a pileated woodpecker?"

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: gnu
Date: 30 May 12 - 07:27 PM

Them woodpecker's 'll peck yer wood eh? Ya don't wanna trust em. Them varmints is up ta no good.

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: Bobert
Date: 30 May 12 - 07:38 PM

Yeah, Beeze... I have caught and relocated many snakes... Back in the holler I caught and moved two timber rattlers... I did have to kill a copperhead, tho... He was living under a concrete pad and the P-Vine had a small flower garden in front of it... He was gonna bite here if she went weedin' in there...

Felt terrible about that snake, too...

As for the turtle??? Yeah, I know that some folks eat 'um but I put him in the tractor bucket and drove about half mile and dumped him over a small bridge over a creek...

I appreciate ya'll tellin' me that I ain't a monster... But I still feel real bad...

B:~(

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: SINSULL
Date: 30 May 12 - 07:53 PM

I feel bad for you and the turtle, Bobert. I try to relocate anything that gets into my house but sometimes...
It had to be done or you would not have done it.
Mary

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 30 May 12 - 08:09 PM

When Life gives you snapping turtles, make soup.

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: katlaughing
Date: 30 May 12 - 08:10 PM

When we didn't know any better (silly Westerners), my daughters and I stopped for a steering wheel sized turtle, put her in the back end, took her to the nature center, where they said turn right back around and put her back. She's laying eggs in the sand by the edge of the road. Put her back in the back of the car and there were a bunch of what looked like ping-pong balls, she laid whilst riding around. They told us she was big enough to bite off a finger, but we knew turtles and had no trouble with her. We buried the eggs she left in the car, but nothing came of them.

I would have tried to contain it, first, then called a nature center.

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: Bobert
Date: 30 May 12 - 08:17 PM

Our local organizations are useless... We had a sick and violent feral cat that was responsible for us losing our cat, Emma... No one cares...

I was kinda afraid that if I had taken the time to find some help I was gonna have dead kitty on my hands...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: Rapparee
Date: 30 May 12 - 09:38 PM

Bobert, send a donation or something to these folks. They do good work and are good people.

(I like turtle soup, but you gotta prepare it right. You didn't have time and had to protect your cats. Don't fret any; the turtle knows you had to do what you did.)

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 30 May 12 - 09:43 PM

WILL THE TURTLE BE UNBROKEN
Les Barker
I have bought a small apartment
In a lonely part of town
There are 27 storeys
It's a long way to the ground


There I live with my friend Myrtle
My companion, my best friend
She ain't human; she's a turtle
And I'll love her to the end


She was standing at my window
On a cold and cloudy day
Till some wild and wilful wind blew
My poor Myrtle clean away


Will the turtle be unbroken
By and by Lord, by and by
Lord help my Myrtle as she hurtles
Through the sky Lord, through the sky


I ran downstairs, I was crying
I must find her, I must know
My poorMyrtle would be lying
Several hundred feet below


Will the turtle be unbroken
By and by Lord, by and by
Lord help my Myrtle as she hurtles
Through the sky Lord, through the sky


Was she sundered into sections
As her shell fell to the ground
Would I find two hundred plectrums
My friend Myrtle all around


Will the turtle be unbroken
By and by Lord, by and by
Lord help my Myrtle as she hurtles
Through the sky Lord, through the sky


Oh caretaker, poor caretaker
Why do you lie here stone cold dead
Poor man went to meet his maker
Something landed on his head


And the turtle was unbroken
By and by Lord, by and by
For you guided my friend Myrtle
Through the sky Lord, through the sky


Undertaker, undertaker
Lay that poor man in his grave
Good Lord took the old caretaker
But my best friend she was saved


Yes the turtle was unbroken
By and by Lord, by and by
For you guided my friend Myrtle
Through the sky Lord, through the sky

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: Bobert
Date: 30 May 12 - 10:12 PM

Sheet fire, Al...

B;~(

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: Songwronger
Date: 30 May 12 - 10:24 PM

You advocate killing kids with vaccines, your use of cannabis contributes to the deaths of no telling how many thousands along the U.S./Mexican border each year, you support a president who kills daily in your name for corporate interests, and you're whining about a turtle? Just jump, man.

And what's the deal with the gun? You're always flatulating about how Americans should be disarmed, so give up your gun and let your goddam cats die. What a hypocrite.

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: Bobert
Date: 30 May 12 - 10:33 PM

Wronger: Exhibit A that men did fuck buffalo...

And men didn't land on the moon...

And Obama kidnapped the Limbergh baby...

And, and, and...

Like I said on the other thread where you thought your conspiracy theories were cool: You are a jerk and a moron!!!

You want to take me on, BIG GUY???

Bring your moronish tin-foil, Jim Jones kool-aide shit on!!!

Square business!!!

Have a nice moronish night...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: Ebbie
Date: 31 May 12 - 12:01 AM

Don't pay the wrong guy no mind, Beaubear. His is a miserable existence.

As for the turtle versus the kitties, I go with Rapparee on this: the turtle knew you had to do what you did. It was one of the risks he took on when he chose to be a turtle.

Oh, wow. Did I say that?

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 31 May 12 - 03:42 AM

A turtle's gotta do, what a turtle's gotta do....


I shot the turtle
But I did
not fuck the buffalo

You should write that song....

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 31 May 12 - 03:55 AM

No wonder Democrats want gun control!!..they must think the rest of the nation is as nuts as they are!
You're a brave and courageous soul!!.....He could have attacked you, and snapped at you..worse than P-Vine does.....Hey, I hope you cleaned it up before you have to mow!!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 31 May 12 - 04:09 AM

no G from S. - they think the rest of the nation is nuts as you are.

If Al Quaeda managed to kill and injure as many Americans as your present policy of putting guns into the hands of idiots does - you'd have a state of emergency declared.

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 31 May 12 - 04:29 AM

I'm not for putting guns in the hands of anybody....but the turtles of Bobert's neighborhood might consider arming themselves!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 31 May 12 - 05:34 AM

I wonder why we don't have turtles in England. I bet they'd like it here. Lots of imported animals do. I saw a beautiful sika deer last night when I went shopping. It just came into my headlights and just stood there staring at me. I stopped the car and we just stared at each other for a while. Then it showed me its white bum, and high tailed it into tthe forest.

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 31 May 12 - 05:50 AM

I would have been concerned about the cats too, Bobert. I don't know anything about snapping turtles, but from what you describe it might have badly injured a pet. It died instantly and did not suffer. Sometimes in life I've regretted and beat myself up about things I've done, but eventually you have to accept that what's done is done, and let it go. I like very much your concern about the rightness/wrongness of your action. You obviously have a caring personality.

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 31 May 12 - 07:00 AM

Absolutely Liza - my own thoughts, but your caring words.

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: BanjoRay
Date: 31 May 12 - 07:16 AM

Bobert - I bet your cats were old acquaintances of the turtle's and had avoided him for years. If your cats enjoy roaming through the woods, they'll know what's about and how to look after themselves, so there's no need to decimate the wildlife to keep them safe! yomv

Ray

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 31 May 12 - 07:27 AM

Al we do have turtles in the UK, due to people releasing them in the wild when they grow too big or the kids can't be arsed looking after them.

Dave H

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: Rapparee
Date: 31 May 12 - 08:16 AM

I have seen, personally and with my own eyes, a snapping turtle BITE a two-in-thick wooden rod in two. Yes, it was a big turtle.

Please check at least Wikipedia before you go shooting your mouths off.

Songwronger is simply an ill-formed opinion with an asshole.

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: maeve
Date: 31 May 12 - 08:22 AM

BanjoRay- Bobert has moved to a new and very different location. This was a first encounter kind of thing- the cats aren't likely to have dealt with a big snapper before.

Bobert- I've personally had reason to handle many very large (shells 18"-25" long) bad-tempered females and newly-hatched Common Snapping Turtles- an unofficial part of an earlier job- and find they are mainly concerned with laying their eggs and filling their stomachs. I love to watch their prehistoric-feeling movements as they search for the perfect nest site. I've not handled Alligator snappers.

Generally, the only time you're likely to find either kind of snapper out of water is when the females go ashore to lay their eggs in spring and when the hatchlings emerge from their underground sandbeds about 100 days later to scramble their way to water.

Snappers up here are slower growing and reach larger sizes in general than their southerly cousins. They are scavengers and opportunists, preferring carcases, small amphibians and reptiles, crayfish, fish, cygnets and ducklings, etc. Chances are your cats are safe enough unless they insist on sticking themselves into harm's way.

You took action using information at hand. We do the best we can and learn as we go. Another time you may make a different choice.

North Carolina snappers

Or was it an Alligator snapping turtle ?

Large female snapper in Maine

Maine again, medium size

Another Maine snapper's story

http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/snapping_turtle.aspx

Warm regards,

Maeve

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: Bobert
Date: 31 May 12 - 08:40 AM

The scary part about large snapping turtles is that their heads can go from being in shell to fully extended of about 12 inches (lotta neck) in a split second... Very much like a snake strike... And yeah, they bite down very hard... Enough to kill or maim a cat without workin' up a sweat...

Thanks (almost) all for the supportive words and, yes...

...I did dispose of it's body in a respectful manner...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: GUEST,saulgoldie
Date: 31 May 12 - 08:51 AM

Bobster,
Don't be so hard on yeself. It is impossible to be completely moral in everything one does. Life is one big gray area. Maybe if you write a musical tribute to the dearly departed that would help you feel better?

At any rate, you are judging yourself much more harshly than I think most 'Catters would judge you.

Saul

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: Bobert
Date: 31 May 12 - 08:53 AM

Thanks, Saul...

I've always been hard on myself...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: maeve
Date: 31 May 12 - 09:38 AM

Bobert, no criticism intended from here, only support, with information for those who may not know the critter. They can be big and scary.

You are the one who was there, and I trust your judgement.

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: Becca72
Date: 31 May 12 - 09:46 AM

Odd timing to be reading this thread. I just drove by a turtle on the side of the road this very morning. I haven't seen one "live and in person" in years and thought it odd. Now I know what she was doing.

Bobert,
your heart was in the right place. Don't beat yourself up too much. The kitties thank you for watching out for them.

I hit a coyote a couple of months ago and it tore me up. Poor little bastard was just trying to cross the road. I still get teary thinking about it.

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 31 May 12 - 10:15 AM

Funnily enough we were just this morning bowling along a very 'country road' near Little Snoring (yes, that's the name of the village!) when a huge hare loped out from the hedge. He had great long legs and black ears, just gorgeous. Fortunately the road was completely empty so I hit the brakes and swerved, and he shot off into the field of new sugar beet. But I'm afraid I would have had to hit the beautiful creature rather than kill another motorist, and then I'd have been in the same state as you Bobert. We can only do what we think is right can't we? And sometimes the choices are very difficult.

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 31 May 12 - 10:57 AM

Bobert, I was an interpretive naturalist for a long time, talking to the public about the native plants and animals in several and various areas. I had a habit of picking up and skinning out fresh roadkill to use in demonstrations. These were animals in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I think you need to consider this snapping turtle a special category of roadkill. Relocating dangerous animals is preferable if you can move them far enough from people and habitations that they won't cause you (or your nearby neighbors) a problem. But sometimes that intersection between people and other dangerous animals (we are dangerous animals) means a choice is made. A turtle the size you describe can easily take off a finger, and could easily kill a cat. The common snapping turtle isn't endangered.

Rest assured, there are still hazards your cats will face, perhaps a turtle you haven't seen. Nature isn't going to let you create a turtle vacuum, or a place free of cat hazards. You've just put your thumb on the scale of the wildlife balance in your yard.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: Charley Noble
Date: 31 May 12 - 11:07 AM

I'd also feel bad about this too. A forty pound snapping turtle has been prowling the swamps and bogs for a good many years. But I'm also not sure what I would have done with it. They are dangerous, and much as I'd like to haul him away and drop him off at the local Tea Party headquarters I'm not sure if I could have managed it.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 31 May 12 - 11:23 AM

Hey, Bobert, I have the answer. A shrine to the victim (Lizzie posted this on facebook). Or here. Or put up a statue.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 31 May 12 - 11:25 AM

You say you're hard on yourself, Bobert? Me too. Most of us are pretty hard on ourselves, because...

- we're more closely involved with ourselves than with anyone else.

- we know our own faults and failures firsthand, including all our little secrets.

- we expect considerably more of ourselves than we do of others.

- we live with our memories.

That can mean being pretty hard on yourself! As I get older I am finding it easier and easier to forgive most other people for whatever they may have done or not done....but I wonder if I will EVER succeed in forgiving myself!@%$! (for a large variety of presumed failures and imperfections)

Know what I mean?

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 31 May 12 - 12:04 PM

Cheer up Bob! The reptiles got one back....!

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/pastor-killed-in-rattlesnake-attack-during-church-service.html


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 31 May 12 - 12:07 PM

Literal interpretations of symbolic texts can get you in quite a bit of trouble.

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 31 May 12 - 12:49 PM

I think it has more to do wth folklore than the bible. In England - theres blokes who put ferrets down their trousers. One village I went to there was a chap who used to dock puppy's tails for a quid - he'd bite them off.

Monkey business with animals. This guy got his justification from the Bible, but I bet he would have done it anyway - or something similarly daft.

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: Bobert
Date: 31 May 12 - 08:54 PM

No shrine, tho I liked the one that Magz posted...

I did find another turtle today but just an innocent box turtle... He/she was on one of my dirt roads in the woods... I stopped and let him/her get safely across... I'd like to think that was a sign from God... But I doubt it...

I'll be okay... The P-Vine had me shoot deer back in the Holler... I did it... That never bothered me, however, because I had seen first hand what they were doing to vegetation...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: Rapparee
Date: 31 May 12 - 09:14 PM

Bobert, are you aware of the zong "P-Vine Blues" by (I think) Charley Patton?

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: Bobert
Date: 31 May 12 - 09:20 PM

Yup, I know the song, Rap... It's about an obscure Mississippi railroad line... The "Peavine Rail Line"

I have the words somewhere... Not much of a song... Oh well???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: Rapparee
Date: 31 May 12 - 09:25 PM

Hey, do you want this guitar I picked up at the Memphis Cotton Museum? It's an electric and has dials and knobs, but it's got the name "Lucille" up where you tune the strings. It's black. Probably belonged to Lucille Ball or somebody.

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: Bobert
Date: 31 May 12 - 09:27 PM

Hell yeah, Rap... I love Lucy!!! And if she left a geetar for me than I'll love it, too...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: maeve
Date: 31 May 12 - 09:51 PM

You have class, Rap... as does Bobert.

Subject: RE: BS: Talk Me Down from the Ledge...
From: Rapparee
Date: 31 May 12 - 10:40 PM

I also have B. B. King's guitar.