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Subject: RE: BS: Arresting parents over vaccines From: Catherine Jayne Date: 22 Nov 07 - 10:27 AM I qualify for free flu and pneumonia vaccinations due to severe asthma, and I've had them both and will continue to have the flu vaccine (pneumonia jab lasts about 6 or so years. I'm not taking any chances! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Arresting parents over vaccines From: Bert Date: 22 Nov 07 - 02:24 PM Then there's the mercury problem. Everyone tells you that vaccines nowadays don't contain mercury. But when you got to the doctor and ask for vaccines without mercury they can't get them. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Arresting parents over vaccines From: bobad Date: 22 Nov 07 - 04:08 PM I believe that the flu vaccine is the only one that contains mercury in the form of Thimerosal (merthiolate). Most of us probably received way more mercury from Mercurochrome, which contains 26% mercury, applied to scrapes and scratches in our youth. Thimerosal is 49.6% mercury and there is at most 2 to 3 micrograms of thimerosal per milliliter of vaccine). |
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Subject: RE: BS: Arresting parents over vaccines From: Bert Date: 22 Nov 07 - 04:13 PM They tell you that vaccines don't contain mercury but when you ask for them they can't supply them. Rachael has been asking for a couple of years but they can't find ANY that don't contain mercury. As for quantities, how small a quantity of poison are you willing to give your kids? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Arresting parents over vaccines From: bobad Date: 22 Nov 07 - 06:20 PM "As for quantities, how small a quantity of poison are you willing to give your kids?" No medical intervention is without risk, in the case of vaccination the benefits far outweigh the risks. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Arresting parents over vaccines From: artbrooks Date: 22 Nov 07 - 10:06 PM It would appear that, whoever "they" are, they are in error, or using information from the 1990s. Only the flu vaccine now contains thimerosal, which is about half organic mercury (what is found in fish and other animals exposed to toxic waste is inorganic mercury). There have been a number of scientific studies conducted, summarized here , which conclude that vaccines with thimerosal pose no significant danger to anyone. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Arresting parents over vaccines From: Greg B Date: 22 Nov 07 - 10:19 PM Does that mean I should be singing 'Drops of white mercury' when I get my flu-shot from now on? That'll get the senior citizens in line with me going, now won't it? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Arresting parents over vaccines From: M.Ted Date: 23 Nov 07 - 12:25 AM There are legitimate medical questions about the toxic effects of additives in vaccines. In Maryland, at present, there are 12 different vaccinations required by the state--and parents wh are not wackos of any sort have legitimate concerns about the exposure that their children have. People like Bee and Emma use alarmist rhetoric, and name calling, to discredit these very honest and reasonable concerns. I have to question the motivation of anyone who attempts to suppress discussion, investigation, and examination of any thing that poses a health threat to our children. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Arresting parents over vaccines From: Bert Date: 23 Nov 07 - 02:42 AM There are things that are summarized on websites, but when you ask the quack for a guarantee that the vaccines don't contain mercury, he can't supply them. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Arresting parents over vaccines From: Emma B Date: 23 Nov 07 - 04:11 AM M Ted, all I have contributed to this thread, apart from my own pre-vaccine very personal childhood experience of a measles epidemic, have been links to two non - sensational articles on the reasons for and effects of falling vaccination figures one of which considers the opposing views discussed here and gives some actual statistical figures on the percentage of vaccinated children required to prevent epidemics in the community. I have stated clearly that I have reservations about arresting parents who are opposed to vaccination from deeply held beliefs but that my personal feelings are that informed decisions should be promoted in the population as a whole. Please tell me where the "alarmist rhetoric" and "name calling" is that you have singled me out for. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Arresting parents over vaccines From: Rasener Date: 23 Nov 07 - 04:27 AM Just to add my ten penneth. My daughter who is autistic, had the first MMR jab. She has not had the second. I had to fight like hell for that. We decided that we couldn't risk making her possibly worse. We had lots of meetings with the health authorities who were so up their own arses and full of utter shit. Our doctor, finally said that it wasn't necessary as the second jab was really to cover those who didn't take from the first jab. She said that there was a greater % chance of our daughter being immune than not. She advised to not have the second. The only thing she mentioned, was that at a certain age, it would be prudent to have the rubella inoculation. So for me its arseholes to such prats who suggest such stupid things. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Arresting parents over vaccines From: GUEST,Crystal Date: 23 Nov 07 - 07:52 AM I can see good points at both sides of the arguement here! Personally I feel that the risk of a child dying, or being crippled by a disease is greater than the risk of side effects from the vaccine used to prevent the disease. On the other hand I believe we also need a lot more research done into these side effects, proper research, not like the now discredited studies done on links between MMR and Autism! At the end of the day it should be up to the parents to decide, but it should be up to the government to provide the FACTS. I was lucky, my mother got me vaccinated against whooping cough, but a few friends were not and were off school for a couple on months each recovering from it. Not a disease I'd ever want I have to admit! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Arresting parents over vaccines From: Rasener Date: 23 Nov 07 - 08:47 AM >>not like the now discredited studies done on links between MMR and Autism<< I have met one of the people who is at Sunderland University Mr.Paul Shattock http://osiris.sunderland.ac.uk/autism/aru.htm who still does these studies. I have also listend to his seminar. They are actually trying to do something. However the health chiefs are constantly trying to undermine all that good work, becuase they are shit scared to admit to the problems. I have met a lot of smug bastards who have tried to undermine the above work. Most of the people who constantly say the the MMR jab is safe are just puppets spouting what they are told and do not have enough knowledge about it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Arresting parents over vaccines From: TheSnail Date: 23 Nov 07 - 09:26 AM Perhaps a few more references to the MMR case would be helpful - http://briandeer.com/mmr/lancet-greenhalgh.htm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Wakefield http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article391141.ece http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php?/site/article/3611/ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Arresting parents over vaccines From: Mo the caller Date: 23 Nov 07 - 09:32 AM I get the impression that MMR vacine probably is safe. I also get the impression that government spokespeople say what they want people to hear, not what they believe to be scientifically proven. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Arresting parents over vaccines From: Rasener Date: 23 Nov 07 - 09:37 AM For a lot of people its safe, but for some, it isn't. government spokespeople are told what they have to say. Its like listening to a parrot repeating itself, when you hear these people. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Arresting parents over vaccines From: bobad Date: 23 Nov 07 - 12:55 PM If anyone is seeking 100% guarantees of the safety or efficacy of any medical intervention they will never find it, it is simply not realistic. There is always that 1 in 10,000,000 chance that someone will have an adverse reaction where 9,999,999 did not. I know of someone who needed a liver transplant after having a reaction to Tylenol (acetaminophen) yet 100's of millions of people take it without any problem. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Arresting parents over vaccines From: Donuel Date: 23 Nov 07 - 02:44 PM I got the story all wrong it was notthe govenor but a country manager who made the decree. It seems enough lawyers have gotten to him that the arrest threat no longer seems real but is not officially recinded. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Arresting parents over vaccines From: Donuel Date: 23 Nov 07 - 02:48 PM My wife argues vehemently that MMR does not cause autism. I am on the other side. Dick Army confessed that he secretly inserted a provision in a bill at 2 AM that would limit liability of vaccine manufacturers. It limits liability to $25,000. He is no longer in office. My wife claims that Hatch was behind the drug company limits being secretly inserted into a bill to be voted on 6 hours later at 9 AM |
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Subject: RE: BS: Arresting parents over vaccines From: M.Ted Date: 23 Nov 07 - 03:12 PM Sorry, EmmaB, I misread your post and thought you said something that someone else said. I won't name anymore names. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Arresting parents over vaccines From: Donuel Date: 23 Nov 07 - 04:04 PM I haven't seen mercurochrome in a long time. bobad was methyiolate different from mercurochome? They looked the same to me. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Arresting parents over vaccines From: bobad Date: 23 Nov 07 - 05:06 PM They are similar and were both used as topical antiseptics but they are not chemically identical. From Wikipedia: Merthiolate Mercurochrome |
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Subject: RE: BS: Arresting parents over vaccines From: katlaughing Date: 23 Nov 07 - 07:42 PM Our vet clued us into using a dilution of "Betadine" (an iodine solution) on small cuts on our pets, rather than an antibiotic ointment which he said suffocates wounds making them take longer to heal. We use it on ourselves, a generic brand (is that an oxymoron?) and it's better than I ever remember merthiolate or mercurochrome being! They stung! It's a good thing flu vaccines are not mandated for children. THIS would give me pause if they were. From BUSINESSWEEK: By MATTHEW PERRONE WASHINGTON Government health regulators recommended adding label precautions about neurological problems seen in children who have taken flu drugs made by Roche and GlaxoSmithKline. The Food and Drug Administration on Friday released its safety review of Roche's Tamiflu and Glaxo's Relenza. FDA's panel of outside experts will consider the government's proposed labeling at its meeting Tuesday. FDA is not required to follow the advice of its outside experts, though it usually does. FDA began reviewing Tamiflu's safety in 2005 after receiving reports of children experiencing neurological problems, including hallucinations and convulsions. Twenty-five patients under age 21 have died while taking the drug, most of them in Japan. Five deaths resulted from children "falling from windows or balconies or running into traffic." Over 48 million patients, including 21 million children, have taken Tamiflu since it was approved in 1999. The drug, which comes in capsule and liquid form, had sales of $2.4 billion last year. There have been no child deaths connected with Relenza, but regulators said children taking the drug have shown similar neurological problems. The label for British drug maker Glaxo's Relenza does not list any neurological problems. A company spokesman said Friday no signficant behavioral issues have been recorded in clinical studies or patient safety reports. Sales of the drug last year were roughly $187 million. While FDA said the reports of dangerous side effects could result from an unusual strain of flu or a rare genetic reaction to the drugs, the agency wants language about the possible side effects added to labeling for physicians who prescribe Tamiflu and Relenza. Tamiflu's current label lists the potential for self-injury and delirium, but does not mention that these behaviors could result in death. The FDA's proposed label would include that information. In a statement Friday, Roche suggested it would consider changing the label. "If the FDA concludes that it is valuable to place additional details on the label with regard to specific adverse event reports, then Roche is open to that consideration," the statement from Roche, which is headquartered in Basel, Switzerland, said. However, the company also stressed there is no concrete evidence connecting its drug to the reported problems. It also pointed out that many children with flu experience neurological problems, even when they aren't taking medication. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Arresting parents over vaccines From: Donuel Date: 23 Nov 07 - 07:57 PM That explains it bobad. I had enough merthilate to float a boat as a kid. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Arresting parents over vaccines From: PoppaGator Date: 24 Nov 07 - 02:26 PM We always seemd to have both Merthilolate and Mercurochrome around the house when I was a kid. They both left very bright neon-red marks, but in two slightly different shades. I had not been aware that both contained mercury; "mercuro-chrome," obviously enough, would be the name of something made from mercury, but not so obviousoly the other... I came to prefer Mercurochrome as I grew up, because it hardens the wound to which it is applied, in addition to its antiseptic effect, and to me seemed to be unique in its ability to make pain/tenderness/immobility go away fast. For this reason, I've always tried to keep a bottle of this old-time remendy on hand. (I always found it especially helpful for blisters on the feet, upon which which one can hardly avoid putting one's weight.) It's only in the last year or so that my last bottle finally ran out. Of course, I haven't been able to find more. Only after reading this thread, and the linked-to Wiki articles, have I learned that it's off the market and that I might as well abandon my quest for a mercurochrome refill. Of, and one more thing: when it comes to stinging, neither Merthiolate nor Mercurochrome ever stung half as much as the only alternative we had back in the bad old days, which was iodine. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Arresting parents over vaccines From: katlaughing Date: 24 Nov 07 - 03:19 PM See, that's what I don't get, Poppagator. The generic "betadine" we use IS iodine and it doesn't sting. I dilute it to use on pets but not on ourselves. I remember the others stinging really badly when I'd scraped up a knee and mom drenched it in the *red* stuff. It almost match my hair colour back then!:-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Arresting parents over vaccines From: Rowan Date: 24 Nov 07 - 09:40 PM Most of the sting may well have been the methylated spirits (ethanol with a bit of naptha to make it undrinkable) used in the tincture. Meths also hardens the open part of the wound by drying out the superficial tissues, and is used by some guitarists for a similar purpose in the belief it accelarates callus formation. Cheers, Rowan |
