An English Folk Awards..?

Subject: RE: An English Folk Awards..?
From: GUEST,Henry
Date: 14 Jun 08 - 03:57 PM

That would seem to indicate a bias toward the English, rather than discrimination against it.

Subject: RE: An English Folk Awards..?
From: Def Shepard
Date: 14 Jun 08 - 04:00 PM

Indeed it does, Henry, that was the point (I fear though, in vain, as far as WAV is concerned)I was making. I just went right through the list of nominees and the winners, again, and the balance is overwhelmingly in favour of England.

Subject: RE: An English Folk Awards..?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 14 Jun 08 - 04:07 PM

So, instead of worrying about such "bias" (Henry) or "balance" (DS), why not have English (junior and senior) Folk Awards, to match what they already have in fair Scotland..?

Subject: RE: An English Folk Awards..?
From: GUEST,Henry
Date: 14 Jun 08 - 04:13 PM

Perhaps it's just the name he has a problem with..
I think these awards are a bit silly anyway - it's not a competition, after all, is it? As someone pointed out earlier, music awards are more to do with marketing than the product itself.

Subject: RE: An English Folk Awards..?
From: GUEST,Henry
Date: 14 Jun 08 - 04:14 PM

WAV: Because no-one's invented one yet. Why don't you do it?

Subject: RE: An English Folk Awards..?
From: Def Shepard
Date: 14 Jun 08 - 04:15 PM

I'm not worried in the least (that's your balliwick), If we HAVE to have an awards programme I like the way the Radio 2 Folk Awards work, and am not interested in the least in yet another awards programme. Put the money where it belongs, in the hands of the arts communities, regardless of nationality.

Subject: RE: An English Folk Awards..?
From: Def Shepard
Date: 14 Jun 08 - 04:17 PM

Yes, WAV put your money where your mouth is, investigate the possibilities, you seem all set on yet another awards programme, oh and make sure funding comes from private sources, I for one refuse point blank to fork over any money

Subject: RE: An English Folk Awards..?
From: GUEST,Henry
Date: 14 Jun 08 - 04:29 PM

While you're at it, WAV, I suggest you write out a full and concise definition of precisely what constitutes English folk music, as it could save much argument later on I suspect. These things are best considered well in advance to save any confusion.

Subject: RE: An English Folk Awards..?
From: greg stephens
Date: 14 Jun 08 - 04:32 PM

I'm Cornish, so what has all this got to do with me?

Subject: RE: An English Folk Awards..?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 14 Jun 08 - 04:32 PM

Wav - why not apply to do a folk programme on your local community radio station - then you can play what you like and see how many listeners you get.

If there isn't a community radio station - it is easy enouigh to start one - or an internet station or whatever. It is really not difficult to get on air if you are dedicated.

Subject: RE: An English Folk Awards..?
From: GUEST,Henry
Date: 14 Jun 08 - 04:34 PM

"I'm Cornish, so what has all this got to do with me?"

You're being discriminated against - go forth and start up the 'Cornish Folk Awards'.

Subject: RE: An English Folk Awards..?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Jun 08 - 05:31 PM

I'm really quite angry about this.

DS, I almost can't believe you don't understand. If you check the Comhaltas threads, 20 years ago Irish traditional music and song had almost died out (so it is reported). A programme of awards resulted in the music being played. Now it is ubiquitous.

Look around even this thread - one of your apparent supporters saying that the only people playing English are the Carthys. It isn't true, but it is the perception.

The last fest I went to was the Pigs Ear Folk Ale. Programme toppers the Young Coppers who do sing English folk songs. Pig's Ear also do some English folk song. Who else? Me (yes I did briefly get on stage). I don't think I heard many other English folk songs the entire weekend. Many fine songs, but I think not many other English folk. Oh yes, a Band called Dave did the Drunken Sailor and Whip Jamboree, and there were a few shanties in the sing. Yes, DS, I do try to sing as much of my tradition as I can, because it deserves not to be lost. I'm not sitting and wingeing, I'm doing (and some like it and some don't and that's their call - I don't claim to be all that good, but I'm doing what I can and I do try to breathe some life into my tradition by arranging (I had three goes before settling on that word) the songs).

But there again, you don't seem to be able to read either (and, I almost can't believe, you don't know who Lord Denning was).   Go back and read what I said. I know this may be hard, but then try to stop and think.

It doesn't need government money: any festival could have an English folk song performance competition at pretty well no cost.   Why don't they? Point proven.

Oh - and if you can't read, DS, can you count? How many English performers were there in the Irish and Scottish and Welsh (if any) folk awards? Can you count as far as zero, or haven't you reached the concepts of the Arabian mathematicians of over a thousand years ago yet?

And while I'm at it, DS - have you bothered to check how many entries in the Smoothiechops awards were folk at all?

And further - if Sonny Boy Williamson was right (which, actually, I think he was) why would it be racist to say that the English can't do Irish, Scottish, or Welsh (or other American as distinct from blues) either? Or vice versa?

There seem to be three bodies of fools ranked against the idea of an English Folk Award: the ones who wish folk to die, the ones who wish English folk to die, and the hardcore PC who will permit any person of identifiable ethnicity the defence of his or her culture - except the English. Let me ask you Greg. What are you doing about Cornish song? Not my place to tell you but we had a Kent thing (I was not involved in organising) some months back and I eagerly look forward to the next. Maybe I will actually be able to get into the sing!


George, in places you are the voice of sanity on the thread. You bring great skill as an observer of English society and framer of songsummaries of such society (and a mellifluous voice to aid the telling of your observations). You do not denigrate English folk song. But I don't think I've ever hears you sing and English folk (1945 definition) song. You are right (IMHO) to say "The answer I came up with is "in both places", in other words I love, and am proud of, both my inherited and my adopted cultures. I would neither abandon my Greekness, neither would I shun my learned "Englishness". And from that I made the logical step that one ought to remain proud of their own culture, even while they recognise their less savoury aspects and try to correct them". It is a point I have made to some near-relatives quite argumentatively. They are proud of having abandoned their birth class, and I say that they must be proud of who they are and their origins even if also proud of self-improvement. It is a point some of my trade union colleagues make to me - that never having been working class I am at best a cuckoo in their nest (Hell, what does that make Tony Benn?). Let me make it back. I am English, and it is right that English Folk song should not be lost. I will do what I can to preserve it and many others do not. One step in the right direction would be awards and contests as Comhaltas has used to assist in the preservation of Irish folk music and song, although I would be happier with more flexibility as to interpretation. There is a fine distinction at best between prescriptiveness and taste as to performance, and all judges of such competitions are to some extent victims of their preferences, but the songs and tunes must live, not be pickled in aspic or they are no longer "folk". If they are no longer played they will be dead.

Sorry to go on so long but I am really rather angry.

Subject: RE: An English Folk Awards..?
From: Def Shepard
Date: 14 Jun 08 - 05:43 PM

Bridge, I wasn't even going to waste my time with your hysteria but....
The paranoia that English Trad Arr. about to die is laughable at best.
I know who Lord Denning, just another idiot arsito as far as I'm concerned. Oh look there's 1954 rearing it's head again, look! this 2008. Your definition of what is and is not folk is vastly different from mine, I plugged my fiddle and mandolin in along many years ago, and I'm not about to unplug them because a few malcontents. If that makes me any less of a folk musician your eyes, too bad! I do songs from the entire British Isles and a handful of bluegrass as well, don't like, too bad. I don't have a problem with the Radio 2 Folk Awards. Seems Leige and Lief went waaaayyy over the heads of some.

Subject: RE: An English Folk Awards..?
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Jun 08 - 05:53 PM

Richard,hope you dont mind me making two minor corrections,which dont alter what you are trying to say.
Comhaltas were formed in 1951,and I am sure you meant to say the 1954 definition.
I agree with a lot of what you are saying,my problem is with Walkaboutsverse,I have never called him a racist,but I am watching him very carefully,I am at this moment suspicious,it is a problem that certain elements of the far right are prepared to hijack English traditional song,
I know that youare not a racist.Dick Miles.

Subject: RE: An English Folk Awards..?
From: GUEST,Henry
Date: 14 Jun 08 - 06:23 PM

"How many English performers were there in the Irish and Scottish and Welsh (if any) folk awards? Can you count as far as zero"

Doesn't that make them racist by your logic?

Subject: RE: An English Folk Awards..?
From: GUEST,wld
Date: 14 Jun 08 - 06:24 PM

if you had an award system, the same boring old bastards would win.

apart from the boring young bastard award.

we already know that, in their own opinion, they're the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Subject: RE: An English Folk Awards..?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 14 Jun 08 - 06:27 PM

It will happen, Richard (me singing "54" folk songs, that is). A number of reasons why not yet, but those reasons one by one are disappearing, and there are several songs I want to have a go at. It will happen. And the album will probably be called "Trojan" or "Gift Horse". There. You read it here first.

Subject: RE: An English Folk Awards..?
From: GUEST,What'sthepoint
Date: 14 Jun 08 - 08:54 PM

Did you have to mention the horse George?

What's with this, "I'm watching him very carefully," mallarky Captain? Are you working undercover for the Folk Police?

Little Bo Peep is a laugh a minute isn't she!

Subject: RE: An English Folk Awards..?
From: glueman
Date: 15 Jun 08 - 04:16 AM

It's a personal observation based on keeping both eyes and ears open but folk and nationalism are easy bed fellows. That provides an understandable enthusiasm for domestic traditional music with an endgame that finishes in the Balkanisation of the tradition - and we're not talking Tamburitzas.
It all relies on the goodwill of the individuals promoting the music, transparency at all levels, a willingness to answer questions and instill confidence in others, something that's been lacking in previous threads. It is not, given the signifiers that have attached themselves to St George's flag, incumbent on the cynics to prove their doubts.

Personally I find all organisations that promote indigenous music exclusively a bit suspect, or at least odd. At the very least they don't recognise historical strands, hybridisation and are overly keen to make one moment in time THE moment in time when it comes to arbitrating what is and isn't 'folk'.

I'd be quite keen on an English folk awards but it would have as many doors as fences and the grumpy would have taken their ball home long before the winners were announced.

Subject: RE: An English Folk Awards..?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 15 Jun 08 - 05:32 AM

Further to some of the above comments on the fairness of any such awards: "traditions are handed-down, but they are best cared for by meritocracy – not nepotism" (again, from here).

Subject: RE: An English Folk Awards..?
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Jun 08 - 05:35 AM

"are you working undercover for the folk police",thankyou, you gave nme the first laugh of the day.

Subject: RE: An English Folk Awards..?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 15 Jun 08 - 05:37 AM

It doesn't need government money: any festival could have an English folk song performance competition at pretty well no cost.   Why don't they? Point proven.

You mean like Saltburn and the Fred Jordan Award for unaccompanied traditional singing? Or Satlburn and the singer songwriter competition?

Point unproven.

Subject: RE: An English Folk Awards..?
From: GUEST,Crossbred sighthound
Date: 15 Jun 08 - 06:05 AM

This website is hilarious - every time I come here you're always just arguing over the pettiest little things. I suspect the folk community must have a higher than average amount of deluded pedants in it's ranks.

"No but I said My dog belonged to me whereas you said no MY dog belonged to me - see I'm right you're wrong na na na Celtic Music Martin Carthy I own an accordion that once belonged to a guy who bought pegs from a gypsy and you forgot to put a fullstop there therefore I'm right and"

As you were.

Subject: RE: An English Folk Awards..?
From: Lowden Jameswright
Date: 15 Jun 08 - 06:28 AM

God knows what Willie o' Winsbury would have thought to this thread

Subject: RE: An English Folk Awards..?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 15 Jun 08 - 06:55 AM

I predict that the BBC/WBC, SBC, and EBC will cave in and give us an English Folk Awards before this thread is dead.

Subject: RE: An English Folk Awards..?
From: Howard Jones
Date: 15 Jun 08 - 07:15 AM

Folk Awards, like any other culture/arts awards, are marketing exercises. The awards promote the artists, the broadcasters get an audience, and the sponsors get PR. Nothing wrong with that.

The BBC Radio 2 Folk Award is run by a national ie UK radio channel (Before anyone pipes up, yes its run by Smooth Ops on behalf of the Radio 2). Radio 2 has a UK-wide remit, so the awards cover the whole of the UK. From what I can tell from a quick Google, there is a Scottish Young Trad Performers award run by BBC Radio Scotland, which has a specific geographic remit. The main Scottish award seems to be run by an independent organisation called "Hands up for Folk", which is dedicated to promoting Scottish folk music.

The short answer to WAV's original question is that no one with a specifically English remit, and the funding, has tried to organise one. For good or bad, there isn't a BBC England (and for god's sake, WAV, please don't start a thread about that) and in England both the BBC and folk arts organisations tend to be regional rather than national.

The lack of an English Folk Award isn't because of some conspiracy against English music and culture, it's because of the lack of a suitable infrastructure and someone able and willing to organise one.

If you want an English Folk Award, WAV, it's simple. Form a suitable organisation with a committee and constitution, get the necessary funding and sponsorship and media coverage, and put it on yourself. Provided it was done on purely musical grounds, I'd have no objection. But what makes me, and many others, wary is that you also have a political (if not party-political) agenda which many of us are suspicious of, and object to having the music we love associated with.

Subject: RE: An English Folk Awards..?
From: Lowden Jameswright
Date: 15 Jun 08 - 07:21 AM

Willie is winking his approval at that last comment... take note WAV - it's a serious suggestion

Subject: RE: An English Folk Awards..?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 15 Jun 08 - 07:38 AM

How about the EFDSS have an annual folk awards - broadcasted in association with the Beeb..?

Subject: RE: An English Folk Awards..?
From: Howard Jones
Date: 15 Jun 08 - 07:44 AM

"How about the EFDSS have an annual folk awards"

Why not, indeed? Are you member? Why don't you join and lobby them to put one on? However, they might feel they have more important things to do.

Subject: RE: An English Folk Awards..?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 15 Jun 08 - 07:45 AM

1) If you are a member of the EFDSS, you can suggest it to them
2) If you are not a member, then become one and follow 1) above.

Subject: RE: An English Folk Awards..?
From: GUEST,BigDavy
Date: 15 Jun 08 - 08:08 AM

Personally I would like to see one, just to get to here more trad English sons.

David

Subject: RE: An English Folk Awards..?
From: Alan Day
Date: 15 Jun 08 - 08:33 AM

I am with you George,it is very easy to take the piss out of great performers like Martin Carthy under the cloak of a made up name.He is of course as you suggest not the only name worthy of mention and all of your list I applaud especially John Kirkpatrick who is still way out front as far as I am concerned.
Good on you George my hat is in the ring with yours.
Al

Subject: RE: An English Folk Awards..?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 15 Jun 08 - 08:37 AM

To get here [ sic ] where ? if you want to ' hear ' more English songs do like myself , BUY SOME, or go to places where English music is played predominantly.

eric

Subject: RE: An English Folk Awards..?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Jun 08 - 10:48 AM

I must say that the initial perception is that English folk music does get a raw deal at the hands of the English media. There is very little played on the radio and TV. Morris dance is constantly the but of jokes on TV. Anyone daring to say that they like anything English appears to be instantly accused of Racism and so on. But that IS purely my perception. I doubt if yet another tedious awards ceremony would do anything to help that and I trust the judgement of some of the posters that I know on here when they doubt the motive of the initial post but it does pose a genuine question. Does English Folk music get a raw deal?

To that end I did a very quick excercise. The only show dedicated purely to folk on national radio is Mike Hardings. Like it or not that is true. I know there are regional shows and I know folk clubs have more local artists on than you can shake a stick at. I listen to 3 other local radio shows and go to Swinton Folk club every week. Yes there is excelent coverage of English folk music there. But do the mainstream media give enough airtime to English folk? Well, as the MH show was the only one I could use I looked at the playlist. The only way I could divide it fairly was to look at the birthplace of the artists performing and this is how last weeks panned out -

Artist: Kris Drever - Scottish

Artist: Michael McGoldrick - English

Artist: Rachel Unthank & The Winterset - English

Artist: Robin Dransfield - English

Artist: Maddy Prior - English

Artist: Maddy Prior - English

Artist: Maddy Prior - English

Artist: Keith Kendrick - English

Artist: Amy Correia - USA

Artist: Sam Baker - USA

Artist: Mary Gauthier - USA

Artist: Jimmy LaFave - USA

Artist: Eliza Gilkyson - USA

Artist: Lucy Kaplansky - USA

Artist: Faustus - English

15 songs played. 8 of them by English artists. 1 Scottish. 6 from the USA. We could argue that only 6 English acts were represented seeing as Maddy Prior got three bites at the cherry but I am happy to treat that as three songs by an English act.

I have purposely left the played songs off so we do not get into disagreements about whether they were folk songs, what their origins were and so on. Personaly I think it is a pretty poor showcase for English acts but, again, that is my personal opinion.

I am sure it was all good music although I did miss it so I cannot confirm that. But maybe someone has a point if they say that English artists are not that well represented in their own country? Maybe we do need something that will rally us to the flag of St George without all the attendant right wing nutters?

At the end of the day it isn't that important. It has survived all sorts of other traumas and I am sure it will still be going when I am long gone. Maybe another Sharp will travel to another Appalacia and bring back English music more original than is played at the moment? Who knows what is around the corner.

In the meanwhile, as suggested before, anyone wanting to hear more English music - Get yer arse out to the local Folk clubs where you are needed!

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: An English Folk Awards..?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 15 Jun 08 - 11:02 AM

Personaly I think it is a pretty poor showcase for English acts but, again, that is my personal opinion.

Personally I'd say England faired rather better than Wales, N Ireland and Scotland in this "UK wide" broadcast...

Subject: RE: An English Folk Awards..?
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 15 Jun 08 - 11:10 AM

"I predict that the BBC/WBC, SBC, and EBC will cave in and give us an English Folk Awards before this thread is dead."

Only because this thread will outlive most of the BBC directors!!!!!

Subject: RE: An English Folk Awards..?
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 15 Jun 08 - 11:35 AM

Actualy, here is how I would do it:
Viv Stanshall would be the host. He could play the theme song, "We are the Village Green Preservation Society" on sousaphone with a backing track of himself on spoons. Of course, you could always have a symphony orchestra playing a gentle, passionless arrangement of Flanders and Swann's "A Song of Patriotic Prejudice".
Whilst the music plays, naturally, the Wimbledon All-England champion's side will entertain all foreign dignitaries with a display of Morris dancing. There shall be a light snack of cucumber sandwiches.
All taking place on a village green, naturally.
Scots, Irish and Welsh (sorry, no Cornish) may apply, as long as they play TRADITIONALLY ENGLISH material, with no harmony, chords or gracenotes.

Subject: RE: An English Folk Awards..?
From: johnadams
Date: 15 Jun 08 - 11:40 AM

Davepolshaw wrote Personaly I think it is a pretty poor showcase for English acts but, again, that is my personal opinion.


GUESTJon replied Personally I'd say England faired rather better than Wales, N Ireland and Scotland in this "UK wide" broadcast...

If that were the only way of looking at it I'd agree. Fact is that, counting the hours, Scottish regional radio better represents folk music than English regional radio represents folk music. If there is more English on the UK wide MH show it seems to me to barely balance out the fact that we've lost the folk programmes in the north east, the north west and Yorkshire and Humberside BBC slots (although other folk programmes have, for the moment, survived elsewhere).

Folk music broadcasting in these areas comes down to a choice of MH on BBC R2 or being lucky enough to be within listening distance of a community station with folk broadcasters like Dave Eyre, Tim Moon, myself and others.

How we three and others balance out our English/Scots/Welsh/Cornish/Irish content is up to us, and I think we represent the interests of our listeners as much as possible - in my case with a bias towards English.

It seems to me that some regional broadcasting policies are stifling our music of whatever flavour.

Never mind awards, let's get the music to the people.

J

Subject: RE: An English Folk Awards..?
From: GUEST,David
Date: 15 Jun 08 - 11:47 AM

Does anyone know the listener numbers for any of the above folk broadcasts?

Subject: RE: An English Folk Awards..?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 15 Jun 08 - 01:12 PM

John, I don't believe a "UK wide" broadcast should "compensate" for what a regional station does/does not provide.

I suppose one could come back to a point a few posts earlier and wonder about an England wide BBC station... but my own feeling is that England are better served with their regions. Certainly when I lived in the Llanduno area, N Wales, I felt a S Wales bias...

Subject: RE: An English Folk Awards..?
From: johnadams
Date: 15 Jun 08 - 02:48 PM

No Jon, I don't think so either - I'm just pointing out that there's more than one way of looking at those stats that Dave P put forward.

England already has the equivalent of the Scottish regional broadcasts in its local radio stations. The problem is that the English broadcasters aren't as good as the Scottish ones (don't know about Wales) at reflecting local minority music interests, even when they're not _that_ minority. I was in BBC Scotland a couple of weeks ago and chatting generally to the people there gave me the feeling that they have a far more inclusive policy with regard to their output than I see displayed in Manchester and this reflects in their music coverage across the Scottish region. I've got no hard facts to back this up - it's just anecdotal evidence and I could be mistaken.

I'm not however, mistaken when I look at what I understand to be the legacy of one BBC man who's moving around the regions closing strands like Henry Ayertons syndicated folk programme, Alistair Anderson's folk programme, the Manchester folk programme (can't remember who was the last presenter - I haven't listened since Mike Billington ran it - Ali O'Brien?).

If the BBC were to concentrate more on providing something different from the 'one size fits all' programming we're subjected to at the moment, we would have more opportunities to hear, disseminate, propogate and celebrate our particular brands of music at grass roots level and not have to worry about whether we need to even things up with another award or two.

Hey ho. Tea break (and rant) over. Back to the marking!

J

Subject: RE: An English Folk Awards..?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Jun 08 - 04:00 PM

Hi John (A) don't forget to come along to the very English ceilidh by the Boat Band in Swinton in October:-)

Jon - Yes the English did fare rather better than the others in the UK wide broadcast. But remember that there is BBC radio Scotland, BBC radio Wales, BBC radio Nothern Ireland but no BBC radio England. This makes matters even worse than stated previously. While the other components of the UK have their own folk programmes, and indeed their own radio stations, England have nothing at all! Is that fair?

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: An English Folk Awards..?
From: TheSnail
Date: 15 Jun 08 - 04:15 PM

For your information Celtic Heartbeat

Subject: RE: An English Folk Awards..?
From: TheSnail
Date: 15 Jun 08 - 04:26 PM

Further information Travelling Folk

Subject: RE: An English Folk Awards..?
From: TheSnail
Date: 15 Jun 08 - 04:37 PM

On the other hand, Cúlán on Radio Ulster seems to be less eclectic.

Subject: RE: An English Folk Awards..?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 15 Jun 08 - 05:18 PM

There's also about 4 hours per day, Monday to Friday, of Scottish Gaelic music on BBC radio - including plenty of excellent unaccompanied singing, as well as extensive coverage of their annual Mods (folk competitions). Furthermore, on Thursdays nights, the Gaelic language TV programmes, of BBC2 Scotalnd, sometimes have folk-music documentaries, such as a series following students on the Scottish Traditional Music Degree.

Subject: RE: An English Folk Awards..?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 15 Jun 08 - 05:27 PM

I very rudely omitted wo other singers at the Pigs Ear Fest who do mostly English folk song. Marian Button and Linda Smith are both superb.

Subject: RE: An English Folk Awards..?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 15 Jun 08 - 05:39 PM

Folk music broadcasting in these areas comes down to a choice of MH on BBC R2 or being lucky enough to be within listening distance of a community station with folk broadcasters like Dave Eyre, Tim Moon, myself and others.

And I am also available to listen on the internet/podcast - so it is not absolutely necessary to be within listening distance.

Anyone wanting to know what I play - I have a perma-thread with the last half dozen or so playlists; on my blog most of what I played since Xmas.

I haven't time to count now since I am driving to Dover overnight (10.30 pm here).

Subject: RE: An English Folk Awards..?
From: johnadams
Date: 15 Jun 08 - 06:18 PM

Folkiedave wrote And I am also available to listen on the internet/podcast - so it is not absolutely necessary to be within listening distance.

.... and that's a great service but it doesn't extend the listenership. The value of your terrestrial broadcast Dave, is that the people who listen before are there at the beginning of your programme to be enticed to stay listening (either by the content or seduced by your dulcet tones ;-)) ) Those people are not going to log on to listen.

My point, amongst all this thread drift, is that we don't need whistles and bells (unless they're integral to the music) to promote English folk music, we just need lots of opportunities for ALL folk music to be heard and have a good chance to include ours in the pool.

Subject: RE: An English Folk Awards..?
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jun 08 - 06:37 PM

But remember that there is BBC radio Scotland, BBC radio Wales, BBC radio Nothern Ireland but no BBC radio England.

I believe I acknowledged that Dave.

But where is (when I lived in Wales) our BBC Radio Gwynnedd, Clwydd, Conwy (now - it's a county), tv, (say) Look North, etc.? The English channels are spoilt by region but moan they don't have Radio England. Given the chioce, and having lived in both countries, I;d say the English get a far better deal with regions than a Wales with hmm (largely S Wales) Wales.

Which would you choose?