BS: You and your ESP

Subject: RE: BS: You and your ESP
From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz
Date: 12 Aug 08 - 10:50 AM

Bill D: It's all up to you...

Subject: RE: BS: You and your ESP
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 Aug 08 - 12:09 PM

A large part of what I do for folks, usually via the phone, sometimes through writing, is based on my ability to really listen well and intuitively. Oftentimes, when I phone someone whom I *feel* needs a phone call/listener/help, they will answer with surprise and say something like "I was just thinking about calling you!" This has happened too many times for too many years to say it is just coincidence. It is something, an ability, I have cultivated through paying attention, meditation, study, and allowing myself to *feel* what some people may brush off as nothing. Whatever one chooses to call it, I know, from direct contact with those I help, that it is consistent and more than just a good friend calling for a visit.

As to some of the other things mentioned in this thread, I have seen/sensed ghosts, the newly departed, spoken to and listened to my houseplants (gardenias love being next to crown of thorns, if I remember rightly), and my pets.

BillDarlin' knows we will never agree and that it pisses me off that we have never been able to have a discussion on such things without naysayers and/or ridiculers, but he also knows I still luv'im.:-)

kat

Subject: RE: BS: You and your ESP
From: SINSULL
Date: 12 Aug 08 - 12:41 PM

I have spoken of other events in my life which have mystified me - usually to contempt. My personal opinion is that none of this is supernatural. Something else is going on which we have not yet scientifically explained. That includes ESP, hauntings, things moving on their own, etc.

But while we are on the subject - does anyone watch Ghosthunters? And can anyone give me a rational explanation for turning out all the lights before "investigating"? Mrs. Murphy says that she sees a shadow regularly crossing her path in the living room in daylight. So why turn the lights out?

Subject: RE: BS: You and your ESP
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 Aug 08 - 12:43 PM

Something else is going on which we have not yet scientifically explained.

Yes!

As to the lighting, dunno...maybe ghosts aren't used to electric lighting? Or, they interfere with the electric impulses of the phenomenon which is being monitored?

Subject: RE: BS: You and your ESP
From: Bee
Date: 12 Aug 08 - 12:43 PM

Well, I certainly hope it is possible for all of us to have different opinions on such matters without becoming angry about it. I try (perhaps not always successfully) not to ridicule people who have different views of the world than I do. OTOH, I don't see why I should have to hold my peace and say nothing regarding my own views while others may say what they like.

Twice already on Mudcat, on two different subjects, I have been seriously chastised for expressing and defending my own views, and I can see a similar situation could develop in this thread. So I shall withdraw, since I'm still feeling a little burned.

No hard feelings, I hope.

Subject: RE: BS: You and your ESP
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 Aug 08 - 02:19 PM

Bee, my apologies if my words made you feel that way. I have read your words with great interest and hope you will continue to post. I guess I am a little on the offensive/defensive because, in the past, we have had some really ugly, nasty postings from certain types who have put down anything those of us who might believe have posted. You and Bill are certainly not in that category. It's old history which has made me gun-shy, so to speak. I will say, though, that it would be nice, just once, for those of us who do have some belief, to be able to have a discussion without naysayers/skeptics/etc. weighing in.

Subject: RE: BS: You and your ESP
From: Amos
Date: 12 Aug 08 - 03:55 PM

Ectoplasm doesn't show up as well in artificial light; but since the Ghostbusters are supposedly using highly scientific instruments, so what? I think it is just for dramatic effects.


A

Subject: RE: BS: You and your ESP
From: Amos
Date: 12 Aug 08 - 04:25 PM

You gotta differentiate between subject and object universes. Bills hard-core data structures are rigorously accurate for statements about the object universe--things commonly perceived, or perceived in common. The things to which numbers and empoirical processes apply.

But Kat, and a number of others herein, are talking about a wealth of adventure and experience in the universe of the knower. This is a field about which empirical science has yet to make a dent in explaining or even scoping out. The space of possible knowing is as big as all imagination, which is large indeed; and the degrees and kinds of experience available are as yet uncounted. Furthermore a lot of those experiences map remarkably well across the bridge into the commons and the material playing field. They do not behave as uniformly as material particles do, and it has not yet been really seriously tried to figure out what the universal constants in the field of knowing are. I am sure,for example that degrees and qualities of communication and "affinity" states would probably number among them.

In my view it is far braver and more honest to admit such experiences if they occur and simply allow there are large territories which are terra incognita, than to insist such territories could not be there because they don't look like what you are used to measuring and weighing.


A

Subject: RE: BS: You and your ESP
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Aug 08 - 04:50 PM

I should have simply said that the limbic lobes are not full of neurons. They are certainly surrounded by them. The sound processing thing was fascinating.

The universe within our body communicates by free floating proteins/hormones, electricity, chemicals, vibration and things I don't yet know. We communicate to the outside universe with light, motion, vibration, chemicals, electricity and perhaps wavelengths yet unkown.
I will reaserch some more for limbic influence on vision as well.


I have been enjoying all of Bee's contributions with great anticipation...well up until she said "I'm taking my ball and going home". I get to feeling that way too and discovered it was not called for 99% of the time. Its probably some vestige of a past emotional response to rejection.

I need to do some cartoons about plants complaining much the way we do. "He doesn't even listen, I'll be damned if I bloom for him!"

Subject: RE: BS: You and your ESP
From: CarolC
Date: 12 Aug 08 - 04:54 PM

The thing about plants is that they'll still do their best even if they're not being properly taken care of, but they might not be able to express themselves as fully in form as they would like to if conditions were better. Plants aren't judgmental the way humans are.

Subject: RE: BS: You and your ESP
From: SINSULL
Date: 12 Aug 08 - 06:15 PM

"Plants aren't judgmental the way humans are. "

Mine are. I am constantly being criticized for overwatering underwatering too much sun too little sun...the list goes on. I have asked them to move out but so far no go, SIGH

Subject: RE: BS: You and your ESP
From: CarolC
Date: 12 Aug 08 - 06:27 PM

Are they actually communicating criticism or are they just failing to thrive?

Subject: RE: BS: You and your ESP
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Aug 08 - 08:00 PM

"...it would be nice, just once, for those of us who do have some belief, to be able to have a discussion without naysayers/skeptics/etc. weighing in."

Point taken...and I have avoided a number of threads just for that reason. I have also made a few comments, then left some threads. It has become a pretty standard practice for serious 'prayer requests' and discussions involving religious beliefs among believers(usually Christian) to be held in appropriate forums.
I do note however, that in ALL discussions in a public forum, it is assumed that all points of view are fair game as long as they avoid personal insults and other direct bad manners. There are several ways to have 'controlled' discussions...one as simple as a Mudcat private chat room.
I realize planning a time is not as easy as just opening a thread and adding to a list, but with several thousand folks likely to see the thread title, any thread that approaches controversial topics is almost certain to get both sides of the debate. It is possible to make a request early on...like the diet/weight-loss thread... to ask for no extraneous remarks, but hard to enforce.

Donuel's opening post was a pretty general set of 'opinions' about a set of supposed phenomena, and comments about the phenomena had already begun before I poked my remark in.

This IS a delicate matter, and deserves some thinking about. It's strange, because I actually feel like I am in a minority about metaphysical beliefs, and I have had a strong concern for many years about exactly what leads some to accept, some to deny, and some like me to just 'doubt'.

I shall attempt to restrain myself as best I can.

Subject: RE: BS: You and your ESP
From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz
Date: 12 Aug 08 - 09:42 PM

CIA Remote Viewing Program...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eu0YSEHmTY

Subject: RE: BS: You and your ESP
From: Amos
Date: 12 Aug 08 - 10:01 PM

Watch the video. It doesn't even go into the Swann/Puthoff series which was even more dramatic. But itmakes the point more plainly and clearly.


A

Subject: RE: BS: You and your ESP
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 Aug 08 - 11:28 PM

Ah, jeez, Billdarlin'...it might not seem like *home* without your comments! (I know, I can't have it both ways, now, can I?)

(I know there's a budding/brooding metaphysician in there somewhere...the one who crafted a very special wooden heart for a friend in need, etc.:-)

Subject: RE: BS: You and your ESP
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 Aug 08 - 11:39 PM

Bob, thanks for the video link!

Subject: RE: BS: You and your ESP
From: Bill D
Date: 13 Aug 08 - 12:17 AM

I watched the video, and it 'seems' to show some startling abilities. I am still not sure whether the remote viewing of a 'facility' shows absolute connection or not. I'd like to see 10-15 repetitions with different types of locations chosen each time. *I'd* like to choose some locations.

In the last part, where heartrate is measured during the presentation of various images, the narrator keeps assuring us that it IS happening and that certain responses are ahead of the actual visual, 'proving' that some subjects are 'seeing' in the future. Well...I'd like to hear some analysis by respected skeptics in this area who know more details of the test parameters. To me, simply stating that "by golly, they done it!" is a bit premature.
   I get the impression that most, if not all, of these experiments were undertaken by folks who were not neutral about what they expected to find. *IF* the researcher is looking for and expecting success, it is quite common to unconciously slant the test to obtain the desired results.

I do still remain open to possibilities...but as I have noted before, I want it all to BE true, and I don't want to 'bite' on a flawed test. I still assert very strongly that emotional/psychological 'belief' can cause one to ...ummmm... lower the standards of proof? to miss little flaws? to make mistakes about interpretation of statistics?

   I have watched various tests for 40 years...from the Duke experiments in card reading to the silly 'levitation' films of the Yoga bunch..(the Maharishi?)... and I have seen SO many shown to be flawed. This was at least interesting and worth studying.