BS: ICE - the winter kind

Subject: RE: BS: ICE - the winter kind
From: Amos
Date: 13 Dec 08 - 06:04 PM

Someone who's been everywhere in Maine.

Subject: RE: BS: ICE - the winter kind
From: SINSULL
Date: 13 Dec 08 - 06:16 PM

Just got off the phone with Jeri. She is just a bit stir crazy. Battery gone on her laptop. Power out, no lights, no TV, no Mudcat.
If you have her number, call her. Right about now, she wishes she had a dog or a six pack to offer her neighbor who is running his generator to power a big screen TV. LOL

Subject: RE: BS: ICE - the winter kind
From: gnu
Date: 13 Dec 08 - 06:27 PM

The rain and wind last night were as bad as I have ever seen but the thunderstorms didn't materialize. It was all over by 10PM. Woke to sunshine and -3C this morning.... an NO ice anywhere. We were darn lucky that the worst of it slid by us.

Hope all youse down south make out okay.

Anyone hear anything from Jeri since this morning?

Subject: RE: BS: ICE - the winter kind
From: maeve
Date: 13 Dec 08 - 06:30 PM

We were fortunate. Our power was only out from 12 pm on Friday until 3 pm today (Saturday); 27 hours. Over 115 households and businesses are still in the dark, down from over 200,000. New Hampshire and Massachusetts are also seriously affected. We checked with several neighbors and were glad to learn that they were managing fine and staying warm enough. Tonight will be bitter cold.

We kept the bird feeders stocked with suet and seed. I shared a dipper of sunflower seeds with our bantams, who were content to stay inside their little house for the duration. Chickadees, hairy and downy woodpeckers, juncoes, goldfinches, and mourning doves are a few of the visitors to the feeder in the last couple of days.

Our local ravens graced us with a conversation and lazy circle over in today's stunning blue sky. I looked up when I heard their cro-oak calls to see them winging overhead, curving around toward the Sheepscot River, their section of blue bordered with a lacy tapestry of diamonds in the upper branches of the black locust trees by the road.

We kept warm, and could cook our food as usual on the coal and propane stoves. The oven wouldn't light, so our bread baked in dutch ovens or with the pans wrapped in heavy foil; all on top of wood and coal stoves. Worked fine, with a brief flip-over to brown the tops.

We had filled buckets and bottles with water for drinking, washing, and flushing before the power went out for the last time. Early this morning we carried "mud" buckets down to the brook at the back of our yard and filled them again (for flushing), then carried them back up the icy hill to the house. The oil lamps and shielded candles gave us light. The work crews worked around the clock, even calling us at one point to see whether they had managed to restore our power yet. They hadn't, but we thanked them for their efforts and assured them we were fine until things settled down.

I love the times when my husband and I can rely on the grace of God and each other. I am thankful to have had such an opportunity with this ice storm. I missed my friends here.

maeve

Subject: RE: BS: ICE - the winter kind
From: gnu
Date: 13 Dec 08 - 07:41 PM

Awww, Maeve. Beautiful post. Woulda brought a tear to my eye if I wasn't such a crusty old curr... sniff.

Subject: RE: BS: ICE - the winter kind
From: katlaughing
Date: 13 Dec 08 - 07:53 PM

This bit esp: ...their section of blue bordered with a lacy tapestry of diamonds in the upper branches of the black locust trees by the road. What beautiful imagery!

There is something special which can come about when you face such trials and know that you can and do manage through them. My Rog and I did, many times, out on our small ranch in WY about 15 miles from town. So many blizzards, loss of power, all water had to be hauled all of the time; the last year with no heat but a wood stove. It was an adventure and fortunately we could laugh then, a little bit, and a lot more now, when we look back and shake our heads.

Subject: RE: BS: ICE - the winter kind
From: katlaughing
Date: 13 Dec 08 - 07:55 PM

Sins, I just tried Jeri...no answer. Maybe she went to the neighbours?

Subject: RE: BS: ICE - the winter kind
From: ranger1
Date: 13 Dec 08 - 08:02 PM

On the phone with Jeri right now, from Sinsull's. We have no power, either. Party at Mary's house!

Subject: RE: BS: ICE - the winter kind
From: Joe_F
Date: 13 Dec 08 - 09:27 PM

For a vivid description of how ice attacks wires, see George R. Stewart, _Storm_, "Seventh Day", Sec. 2.

Ice belongs in bourbon, not underfoot.

Subject: RE: BS: ICE - the winter kind
From: Alice
Date: 13 Dec 08 - 09:32 PM

Just got a call from a friend of mine who lives in the country and was pretty much out of food for himself and the cats. He tried to get down the road but the car could not get through the snow... stuck. He had his cell phone with him, called his nephew in the next farm and he came with the tractor. They had to drive across the field, as the road drifts were too deep.

Subject: RE: BS: ICE - the winter kind
From: Amos
Date: 13 Dec 08 - 11:27 PM

Or in single malt....



A

Subject: RE: BS: ICE - the winter kind
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 Dec 08 - 12:16 AM

Alice, stay put! Man, I remember those kinds of storms and do not miss them! I am glad you are holed up!{{{{HUGS}}}} to you all!

Subject: RE: BS: ICE - the winter kind
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Dec 08 - 12:17 AM

A friend just left her mother's home in Minnesota to drive back to Fargo, ND. She was slightly ahead of a big ice storm. There seems to be a lot of heavy weather out there.

Stay warm and safe, all of you!

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: ICE - the winter kind
From: Alice
Date: 14 Dec 08 - 12:36 AM

That storm heading to the Dakotas from here is the blizzard with high winds and below zero temps. I hope she has already reached Fargo.

Subject: RE: BS: ICE - the winter kind
From: Cats
Date: 14 Dec 08 - 08:39 AM

I have just seen the footage of the ice storms on TV. I am so lucky to be here in a, relatively, warm Cornwall. Hope all is well with all of you. {{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}}}

Subject: RE: BS: ICE - the winter kind
From: SINSULL
Date: 14 Dec 08 - 11:18 AM

Doesn't take much to instigate at a party at SINSULL's. Three dogs four cats and an assortment of people sharing in the light warmth and hot water. They smelled better when they left than when they came in. The silver lining in the cloud.

Jeri, are you heading up for an overnight?

Subject: RE: BS: ICE - the winter kind
From: Phot
Date: 14 Dec 08 - 12:15 PM

Sounds like you guys on the other side of the pond are having a pretty shit time, but its not Aldershot! Here its just grey, wet, and dull. Fiona is being all the ill, wrapped in a mixture of blankie, and cats. At least the fire is lit!

Khatt, at least you have a Landrover, my old girl is now in the motor club, for the next two years! Yep, it's major rebuild time.

Wassail!! Chris

Subject: RE: BS: ICE - the winter kind
From: jacqui.c
Date: 14 Dec 08 - 12:23 PM

Up here in Newark it's got a little warmer and drier but yesterday, when we were watching He Who Walks On Water play football it was cold and went and my toes almost froze solid. However, we have heat and light and all that good stuff.

Much as I miss my darling husband I will, very selfishly, say that I'm glad I'm here right now.

Jeri - take good care of yourself. Never mind the pipes - make sure you get warm.

Subject: RE: BS: ICE - the winter kind
From: gnu
Date: 14 Dec 08 - 12:31 PM

Yup. Some nasty footage on the TV. Stay safe down there.

Subject: RE: BS: ICE - the winter kind
From: Alice
Date: 14 Dec 08 - 01:21 PM

Video from the weather channel about our part of the country:

"Crazy" cold
weather channel video report

Subject: RE: BS: ICE - the winter kind
From: kendall
Date: 14 Dec 08 - 03:17 PM

Get used to it folks. Thanks to global climate change it will only get worse. The fact is, this planet was not designed to suit us, and it is we who must adjust. The dinosaurs all died off because they could not adjust. Is that to be our fate?

Subject: RE: BS: ICE - the winter kind
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 14 Dec 08 - 04:37 PM

We only lost power for about five mins (can tell from the time on the electric clock). But lots of power outages round here - - I went to visit a client on Saturday at noon to find they had been without power since Thursday -- and they have two small children! I told them off for not calling me on Friday and scooped them up and bought them back to our house where they remain - welcome and warm. Ny biggest challenge was no cable at home - therefore no Mudcat.

Subject: RE: BS: ICE - the winter kind
From: Catherine Jayne
Date: 14 Dec 08 - 04:59 PM

Phot....maybe you could get a landrover fix with our 1966 series 2 sometime, she's running good but I like my car with a heater in the cold weather!

Subject: RE: BS: ICE - the winter kind
From: ranger1
Date: 14 Dec 08 - 06:19 PM

Just got the power back at home about an hour ago, but the apartment is still very cold. Neighbor Kathy and I decamped to SINSULL's for pizza with Sins and Jeri. Hopefully, the electricity will be back on at work tomorrow, but if it's not, not such a big deal, my only heat source there is a woodstove, so I've got heat.

Subject: RE: BS: ICE - the winter kind
From: gnu
Date: 14 Dec 08 - 07:08 PM

A pizza party with a whole bunch of good lookin women trying to get warmed up? SON OF A PUP!

Subject: RE: BS: ICE - the winter kind
From: kendall
Date: 14 Dec 08 - 08:33 PM

Sure, I'm within 5 miles but did I get invited? Hell no! sniff.

Subject: RE: BS: ICE - the winter kind
From: SINSULL
Date: 14 Dec 08 - 09:58 PM

I wanted to invite you, Kendall but got voted down. The pizza did not arrive until 8:30 and they all figured you were in bed. Too bad really. Bandit and Joey got their shares of the goodies. And we polished off two bottles of champagne.

LOL
I love spontaneous parties.

Subject: RE: BS: ICE - the winter kind
From: kendall
Date: 14 Dec 08 - 11:09 PM

It's a long road that has no turns.

In bed at 8:30? It's now 11:09 and I'm still up.

Subject: RE: BS: ICE - the winter kind
From: jacqui.c
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 04:09 AM

What were you doing up at that time of night Kendall?

I don't know. I leave the country for just a little while and there's wild parties being held with TWO BOTTLE OF CHAMPAGNE!!!!! and my husband staying up till all hours of the night.

Wahhhhhh!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: ICE - the winter kind
From: kendall
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 06:41 AM

Yes, but not at the friggin' party! I'm sulking.

Subject: RE: BS: ICE - the winter kind
From: Midchuck
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 07:00 AM

There was a Friggin' Party and I missed it?

Curzes, filed agin!

P.

Subject: RE: BS: ICE - the winter kind
From: gnu
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 07:04 AM

Bubbly too? Next you'll be telling me youse watched the Pat's game... be still my heart.

Subject: RE: BS: ICE - the winter kind
From: SINSULL
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 10:57 AM

Next ice storm, I will be sure to invite you, Kendall.

Boy, ladies, we are in trouble. I bet he puts away the leather coat and black hat and shows up in polyester just to spite us.

Subject: RE: BS: ICE - the winter kind
From: Alice
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 11:17 AM

High forecast here of -18 F today. That's the High.

I have not gone outside for 2 days. May stay in today, too, and just work by phone.

Subject: RE: BS: ICE - the winter kind
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 11:47 AM

I'm glad to hear Jeri made it to warmth....and that Alice is hunkering down till it's safe. It looks like the power companies have a LOT of work to do this week. Y'all stay put and stay warm till they make progress... (as if you needed that admonishment!)

Subject: RE: BS: ICE - the winter kind
From: kendall
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 11:48 AM

That is, if I show up at all.

Subject: RE: BS: ICE - the winter kind
From: SINSULL
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 12:06 PM

Careful Captain. Jacqui is a member of the coven. You could find yurself confined to the cellar.

Subject: RE: BS: ICE - the winter kind
From: Amos
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 12:09 PM

IS there some reason y'all don't bury your utilities when the weather is warm instead of hanging them off of poles?


A

Subject: RE: BS: ICE - the winter kind
From: Alice
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 12:25 PM

the expense

New utility lines often go underground, but the old ones are still overhead.

Subject: RE: BS: ICE - the winter kind
From: SINSULL
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 12:40 PM

I wondered the same thing, Amos. In NYC ours were underground and we rarely had outages.

Subject: RE: BS: ICE - the winter kind
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 01:44 PM

from an Edison Co. report:

"VII. Conclusion
Placing existing power lines underground is expensive. Undergrounding an entire state's existing overhead
power lines could cost as much as $94 billion and take decades to complete. The average cost of
undergrounding existing overhead power lines is approximately $1 million per mile. This is almost 10 times
the cost of a new overhead power line.
While communities and individuals continue to push for undergrounding—particularly after extended power
outages caused by major storms—the reliability benefits that would result are uncertain, and there appears to
be little economic justification or customer support for paying the required premiums.
Indeed, in its study of the undergrounding issue, the Maryland Public Service Commission concluded, "If a
10-percent return is imputed to the great amounts of capital freed up by building overhead instead of
underground line, the earnings alone will pay for substantial ongoing overhead maintenance," implying that utilities could have more resources available to them to perform maintenance and improve reliability on
overhead lines if they invested less in new underground facilities.37
For the foreseeable future, however, it appears that the undergrounding of existing overhead power lines will
continue, justified primarily by aesthetic considerations—not reliability or economic benefits. Many
consumers simply want their power lines placed underground, regardless of the costs. The challenge for
decision makers is determining who will pay for these projects and who will benefit from them."

Subject: RE: BS: ICE - the winter kind
From: gnu
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 01:56 PM

You think ice is a problem with overhead, try to keep water out of shallow (<6 feet in Maine, due to frost) ductwork. The main problem with ice and overhead is damage from trees.

Subject: RE: BS: ICE - the winter kind
From: Amos
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 04:19 PM

Underground utilities AFAIK do not suffer unduly from moisture in the conduits. WIthint their conduits, cables are typically separately insulated with tough outer covers. And the problem of weight is removed. The cheaper cost of overheads brings costs uncounted in human misery through power outages, for example. The cause of these collapses is the extremes of movement from wind and weight from ice buildup.

The problem of frost is essentially a depth and materials problem. The range of motion caused by frost heaves of terrain is relatively low; they do tend to break up concrete ducts which have very little flex in them. Rethinking the parameters of the conduits might lead to a more flexible AND more durable solution.


A

Subject: RE: BS: ICE - the winter kind
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 01:02 AM

Who knew--we have ice here in North Texas. It's a winter storm warning overnight. A two dog night (they'll sleep on the rug in my room).

I slithered across a bridge near the house this evening early an decided to leave my trip till after most of the folks on the road got home. The later trip was uneventful. I may know how to stay out of the ditch but that doesn't mean one of those Texas yahoos on the road won't hit me.

I doubt we'll get a snow day tomorrow, but we always enjoy them when they happen.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: ICE - the winter kind
From: Jeri
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 07:44 AM

I was not being terribly social the other night. I was exhausted. I just wanted warmth and electricity and maybe to hear people talking without having to talk myself.

It's been relatively warm. I went home for a bit yesterday and opened all the windows. It was up to 52° when I left (and closed all the windows). Last I heard was my area will likely have power by Wed afternoon. Bat Goddess & curmudgeon are (I believe) on the same power line branch have a woodstove, so they're toasty. There are lots of food businesses open and gas stations.

I'm fairly sure that after the end of civilization as we know it, there will still be cell phones and pizza delivery guys coming to our caves.

Subject: RE: BS: ICE - the winter kind
From: SINSULL
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 08:12 AM

and champagne Jeri? Without champagne and coffe there will be no reason to live.

Subject: RE: BS: ICE - the winter kind
From: Jeri
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 08:30 AM

I have one chunk of wood left, and I'm saving it for an emergency. (Boiling water for coffee.)

Subject: RE: BS: ICE - the winter kind
From: Alice
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 10:38 AM

Currently -15 F here.
It might get up to zero today.

Subject: RE: BS: ICE - the winter kind
From: Alice
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 10:39 AM

Wind chill is -50 F., sky is clear.

Subject: RE: BS: ICE - the winter kind
From: ranger1
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 10:41 AM

Jeri, I think we were all feeling the same way. Plus, I think maybe we were mesmerized by those moving pictures in color in that box on Mary's desk...