BS: TSA groping your junk

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 09:09 PM

As far as a gun goes the current metal detectors do a fine job at that. The only thing this technology brings to the table is in the case of a non metal knife (one of the composite blades) However, no one would bring one cause they could steal a real one ... the whole concept is nonsense but sure costing a ton of money. I would have been much happier with a 35K sniffer myself

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 10:05 PM

Perhaps our thinking is completely wrong. The only other reason for setting up such a system would be to capture and store images for facial recognition and tracking. How great a database could that create after several years. In addition you can capture and track everything. Run a pattern match on this ear ... foot, hand ... what a tool that would make ... they would pay anything for that data. Oh yea tell everyone we don't store the images

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Melissa
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 10:15 PM

Why did they swab the wheelchair man's hands?


Does it make sense for the Talkers to say images can't be saved while showing images that were saved?

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Amos
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 10:36 PM

They swabbed his hands to determine if he had been handling explosive chemicals. These poor bastards are stuck between a rock and a hard place--not a good place if you don't have the imagination to find your way out.


A

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 10:37 PM

Melissa
the swap is a test for gun power or chemicals used for explosives. They say they do that a random, well they do it to me nearly every time LOL ... and I am one of the good guys geeze!!

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Melissa
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 10:42 PM

You must look sneaky, Dan!


Does the swab-juice change colors?
If the guy was rolling his own chair, he probably had all kinds of crap on his hands..

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 12:25 AM

no it is like an alcohol swab   , they then run it in a machine :-)

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 12:46 AM

Amos the video you linked is misleading.
The detail of the topical X ray is so detailed it shows the inner lips of the vagina or the circumcision fold. IT will show the fine lines around your eyes. Indeed the monitor can be adjusted to pixilate to the point of minute detail or mega block pixels.

But all the vanity issues aside, the options for children are dreadful. The options for flight crew are still under review.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Melissa
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 12:48 AM

(thanks, that's not anything I would have thought I'd learn about today!)

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 01:51 AM

Since I believe in absolutely minimizing my exposure to X-rays, I would definitely go for the "hands-on" examination as opposed to being scanned by the machine. I am not perturbed about a doctor, male or female, briefly examining the area of my body around my genitals, so why should I worry about an airport security person briefly doing it? It's hardly what I would call a potentially "erotic" situation... ;-)

If it bothers you that much, try lobbying your government to pull its military people out of the Muslim nations, dismantle its bases in those nations, stop propping up corrupt Muslim dictators who happen to be American Allies, let the Muslins market their own oil without USA corporate control, and stop backing Israel unilaterally all the time.

Not that I think your government will pay the slightest attention to your lobbying in that regard...but at least you'd be addressing the real problem at hand rather than fussing around over secondary symptoms and aftereffects of the real problem.

Kendall - Good point! ;-) Our family jewels are NOT junk!

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: mousethief
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 02:18 AM

The thing is, this is completely unnecessary. The Israeli security force has been completely successful since 2002 in the most terrorist-fraught country in the world without pornographic x-ray machines or groping.

Read here.

"We have to do this for your safety" is just incorrect. It's a lie. They had to do that to pump money into somebody's uncle's machine-making company, more like.

(and telling somebody who was sexually assaulted as a child they should just let some stranger grope their bits and get over it? subhuman.)

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Ebbie
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 03:11 AM

"Post above re having a machine showing only "hardware" - that would be useless since the explosives are not "hard"; only a pin-sized insert and a transmitter elsewhere can cause a pretty good "ka-boom," and not the comic strip type, either." Q


I used 'hardware' in the sense of alien objects, Q, as might have occurred to you. So, I'll ask again: In what way does 'hardware' need to be attached to a visible body in order to be detected?

Anybody?

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 07:24 AM

Ebbie
you are right and only an amateur would try and "bring something on their person" I won't go into more detail as I do not wish to help bad guys but the system is terribly broken and billions of dollars are being wasted. The whole point it to make the traveling public feel they are safe when that is far from the truth.   

We need serious people with skills to look at it and fix it so those traveling are as safe as we can get. You folks are right, Israel has it right and we do little of what they do. By the way, every flight on an Israeli aircraft has a marshal. How many of them could we pay for if we didn't piss our dollars away on a useless piece of "security" equipment that does nothing to help the cause

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 07:31 AM

I will go back to my original post since we now see it does nothing to help us security wise. The hot young college blond who was just trying to go back to school is now most likely a screen saver for some TSA back slapping chuckling idiot.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 07:39 AM

So here's my idea... Develop scanning programs where no one actually is "checkin' you out" unless the computer picks up on something that is suspicious...

(But, Boberdz... Then you'd have lecther-pudders...)

Really???

Lets get serious here... The scanners expose you to less X-rays than actually the act of flying at 50,000 feet...

Lets get real here, Part 2... I mean, everyone has this certain attachment to their own sexual parts but there are hundreds of millions of these things in the world... I mean, the world is full of vaginas and penises...

It's far less invasive to walk thru a detector and have a pudder program look for bombs than it is to have someone gropin' on ya'...

Think they just need to tweek on this a little...

What I don't understand are folks who are perfectly willing to (in the name of freedom) to fly with people who have bombs in their BVDs???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: bobad
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 07:54 AM

"A CBS News poll released Tuesday also showed that a large majority of Americans agree with him. Only 15 percent of respondents said they were opposed to the use of body scanners, with four out of five saying they're in favor."

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/officials-defend-airport-body-scans-poll-shows-overwhelming-majority-favor/

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: kendall
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 08:19 AM

How about a scanner that automatically detonates any explosive device that is on your person?

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 08:20 AM

But Bob, if they scan you at check in and not at the boarding it is meaningless .. protects you against nothing.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 08:39 AM

Doesn't matter where you set up the scanner, Oldster... If a computer is doing the search, who cares...

But I like Kendall's idea... You got explosives then you walk thru a detonator and... Bang, bang, yer dead... Works fir me...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 09:00 AM

Bob, I agree, I would gladly let them look at my junk anytime. If what they do really adds to security, but as I pointed out the location of where they do it makes all the difference. It is insane to check people at the gate then let them loose on a shopping trip before getting on the aircraft. You get a dozen folks now flying with God knows what. Do the scan, that is fine, get the agents heads on right so young girls and kids don't have to see what I did. And do it were it really will make us safe. Then and only them will it make sense. Right now it is just naked picture taking for pleasure cause you are not stopping anything

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 10:12 AM

Olddude I don't know what airports you are flying out of but unless, pulp novels, glossy magazines, 4 dollar cinnamon buns and 5 dollar coffees are weapons that can take down a plane, the measures do provide some safety at the one's I have flown through.

I have to hand it to Al Qaeda though, first the shoe bomber, then the crotch bomber, they are making it less and less pleasant to fly.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 10:46 AM

Jack it is an illusion if you think that is all that is there. It is a sea of weapons for someone who was trained to see them ... sadly .. that is why we need security at the plane not at the entrance

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 12:41 PM

Blimey, having been handled by the urologist with a flexible cystoscopy about 40 times in my lifetime a TSA is chicken feed.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 01:02 PM

Regarding the true amount of incredible detail the Air Port topical scanners produce: It seems there is a recent effort to make people believe that there is no detail or even a discernable image made by scanners. Recently submitting examples of blurred blob like X ray scan images in many U tube additions are BS.

To try to fool people and blatently lie is the standard way people and authorities deal with issues. Do not be fooled by the recent blizzard of phoney blurry images by airport X Ray machines.\It is BS

Fooling 20% of the people all the time is somthing you can count on.
Not getting fooled is hard work but it does pay off over time.

The only controversy on this new police policy is that of

"It is reasonable!"

or

"I feel it it is unreasonable"


To the 'Its reasonable; crowd:

After you watch a you tube video of the anguish of a 3 1/2 year old girl being searched in all her private areas while being held by her father. She struggles between these two large men who are virtually molesting her in front of a crowd of people. This is not the kind of protest a child makes when vaccinated, this will obviously be a long lasting memory for her. I could see her feelings of fear and betrayal.

Maybe then you may begin to see the long reaching conflicts regarding issues of trust, betrayal and safety this girl experiences while her father aids in the invasion of every crevice in her body. At least I would hope you have the humanity and insight to understand and project how her feelings will be affected into the future.

I earlier mentioned hypothetical issues in which the child issue was but one of many. Perhaps explicit images will be more meaningful than a mere list of possible scenarios that were not given a second thought.




To the 'it's unreasonable' crowd:

The Supreme Court should be able to settle this debate, however it is probably not sympathetic to your sensibilities since our particularly conservative court has ruled this decade that it is reasonable to stop passenger vehicles and undertake searches and seizures of occupants and property based on the observation by the officer.

You might consider re-educating children to the ins and outs of searches as well as yourselves to the changes in society and Constitutional protections and just get used to it. Overall its not as uncomfortable as having the common cold.





If there is a middle ground on this issue it would be good to put it in place ASAP. The SHOE BOMBER has us taking off our shoes, The SHAMPOO BOMBER so we lost our toiletries and the UNDERWEAR BOMBER has us looking in underwear. There was a RECTUM BOMBER (no joke) who blew himself up in Saudi Arabia, which is part of the reason why the X raying of passengers has been increased. If people opt for the pat down it defeats the purpose of finding the next Rectal Bomber.

OK an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Are we not already into the tons of prevention?

How far is too far?
As far as any terrorist wants us to go?

IF SO, there are many new things to give up... (hypothetically)

The Tampon/maxipad Bomber
The Trojan bomber
The "vinyl" suitcase bomber.
The "cloth" suitcase bomber.
The skis bomber.
The Book Bomber.
The Kindle bomber.
The laptop (that still appeared to turn on) bomber
The binky bomber
The Elmo bomber.
The dentures bomber
The prosthetic limb bomber.
The Colostomy bag bomber
The catheter urine bomber
The key chain flashlight bomber.
The key chain bomber.
The violin, trumpet, guitar...bomber.
The cheese bomber
The brazier bomber
The Capt. Sullenberger bomber (yep he has to get X rayed too!)
The thin air bomber
The psychological bomber ...opps... that would be all of them










PS There is a dial on the scanner that does remove detail. There is also a dial to adjust the amount of radiation. There is a more powerful version of this scanner which can look into wood framed homes with great detail, but these X ray machines are mounted in mid sized vans and trucks.

Yes the manufacturer claims there is no physical harm from their enormous X ray machines, especially when compared to the harm a dirty bomb would do.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: bobad
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 01:09 PM

There's always someone looking to make a buck: Flying Pasties.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 01:30 PM

I thought of those pads this morning!?






In the future security will have reached its zenith.

Here is a possible exchange with an older person who has not flown in some time..

Lady...
"Does that mean I will see other passengers naked?".

TSA
"NO maam no one will see you naked except for our highly trained professional staff.

Lady
"When am I going to be knocked out?"

TSA
"You will have been anesthetized for 20 minutes prior to take off and not notice a thing as you are loaded into one of the bomb proof steel tubes, along with 20 other passengers."

Lady
"My ticket says something about showers?! Why do we have to submit to showers at the end of the flight?"

TSA
"Since you will have been given a laxative to elimate any intestinal bomb threats any residue of yours or others will be cleaned via the shower conveyor belt"

Lady
"When will I be awakened?

TSA
"As soon as you are re united with your luggage, or in the case of lost luggage, within 3 weeks."

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 01:33 PM

PS

TSA
"Oh lady, we need to tape your mouth shut now"

Lady
"Why?"

TSA
You don't want anything getting in your mouth once you are placed in the flight tube"

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: gnu
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 01:35 PM

They cavity search three year old children? That is sickening. Babies too?

Subject: BS: Airline 'Security'--Whoo-hoo!
From: GUEST,saulgoldie
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 02:06 PM

Apologies if a similar thread has already been started; I could not find it.


Things to say at the security gate x-rays/pat-down:

"Hey, big boy. Looking's free. But if you touch me, it'll be $50."

"Hey, does this look like an airport bathroom?!!" (Remember erstwhile Senator Larry Craig.)

"You don't touch my naughty bits without giving me your phone number. (Nudge, nudge, wink, wink.)"

"Look, sister. You don't float my boat, and my wife (or significant other) is the only one that touches me there."

{Passenger says while proceeding to take off ALL his/her clothes,} "Let me make it easier for you. Besides, don't you know those x-rays cause cancer?"

"You may look at me if Janet Paletano (Homeland Security Secretary) submits to a free look right here with me. For good measure, President Obama and 'W,' too"

"If you touch me, please do it slowly; I take a while to get off."

"Do you come here often?/What time do you get off?" (Oooo, double pun/double word score!)

"Funny, you don't look gay-ish."

"Please smile and face the camera my friend is holding so you will look good on Youtube."

"Can I have your job? It looks like much more fun than saying, 'Would you like fries with that?'"

"Please feel me to your satisfaction. I am glad to do my part saving America from unscanned cargo and hacker intrusion into the American infrastructure."

"Please do a thorough job. There are only three gazillion other passengers waiting for their turn. Lookit all of them smiling!"

"If I like it, will you come on the flight with me and pick up where we left off? It is a l-o-n-g flight, and the flight attendants just don't 'serve' like they used to."

"If I like it, will you come on the flight with me and pick up where we left off? It is a l-o-n-g flight, and I'll need some on-flight entertainment since they don't give out drinks anymore."

"I already did my bit for American security by voting Republican and being unemployed. Let me through."

"I'm looking forward to your soft touch. {Winks.} Ever since I got AIDS, noone else will touch me."

"Please give me whatever you find 'in there.' I lost something, and I can't even remember what it was."

"Please let my friend take a picture of the x-ray, so I can post it on my Facebook page. Oh, and I'll need to post your full name, too, so everyone knows that I am not promiscuous."

"Please let my friend take a picture of the x-ray. Oh, and I'll need your full name, too. I am a teacher, and I want to show my students the face of excessive government control of my life and creeping totalitarianism."

And on and on it goes. With deepest heartfelt sympathy for my son, who will have to go through this ritual privacy invasion "security theater" in a few days.

Subject: RE: BS: Airline 'Security'--Whoo-hoo!
From: Ebbie
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 02:39 PM

"Janet Paletano"?

The person would make more points with me if they got her name right. It is Janet Napolitano. I suspect the writer does not follow US politics.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 02:41 PM

...and the would be terrorists are just laughing at the money being spent as they plan their train or tunnel attacks.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 03:29 PM

Saul, LOL ... I will say hi to him since I am flying this weekend myself. After my posts I better show up 4 hours ahead for my strip search

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: GUEST,saulgoldie
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 04:01 PM

So I misspeelt hir naame. Does that mean that my post has no value? And, um, how do you KNOW I don't follow politics? Just wondering...(BTW, from what I remember of some of your posts, we are on the same side of many issues, Ebbie.)

Saul
Sane, and doing my part to keep fear alive.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: mousethief
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 04:30 PM

A CBS News poll released Tuesday also showed that a large majority of Americans agree with him. Only 15 percent of respondents said they were opposed to the use of body scanners, with four out of five saying they're in favor."

If they're told that's the only way to keep them safe, they will go along with it. But Israel has shown it's not. How many people know about Israel's methods? Do you think if more people knew, they'd be less likely to agree to be subjected to the invasive practices?

Shoot, why not just have everybody strip to the buff. The world is full of dicks and c**ts, right? What logic.

Olddude I don't know what airports you are flying out of but unless, pulp novels, glossy magazines, 4 dollar cinnamon buns and 5 dollar coffees are weapons that can take down a plane, the measures do provide some safety at the one's I have flown through.

The duty free shop is inside the security zone. You could do a lot of damage with a 750 ml bottle.

Yes the manufacturer calims there is no physical harm from their enormous X ray machines

Of course, they would.

-----

Ooooh, okay, touch me again, going the other way. Good, now back. Good, now the other way. Good....

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Melissa
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 05:51 PM

In several of the videos, it looks like there's some kind of stem-thingy coming up from the floor (or down from the person?!)

What is that?

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 05:59 PM

I didn't see that, the ones I been through have foot pads labeled on the floor where you put your feet, you then raise you hands high above your head. I guess that is so they can get a really good look at the young girls hooters ...

I think what you maybe seeing is the markings for where you feet go

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 06:13 PM

Not to worry, mouse... FOX is all over these numbers and vows to make up some phoney stories and get those numbers down to at least 50/50 in 6 months... Then Obama will will be branded a sex-offender by FOX and the beat goes on...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Melissa
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 06:27 PM

Dan,
You can see the thing I'm talking about at :21

here's one

maybe it's something about 'models' and not scans of real people?
I'm sure there would be outraged stories about it if the thing was some sort of Insertion Spindle (which is what it sort of looks like to me)

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 07:02 PM

Melissa
if you are talking the bar on the right hand side that is a thermal scan ... body heat will be red or bright yellow depending on the distance but something carried like a firearm or knife of any type will only reflect heat and will show up as a cooler color. Apparently the scanners also do thermal.

I will use one for finding bigfoot I will ... a Flir Thermal so if the critter is hiding in the brush I will see him

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Melissa
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 07:17 PM

I'm talking about the thing that looks like a stick within the picture..from the person's crotch to the floor (in non-colorful scans) The one at :21 (or close to then) in the link I just put has a lady in a lavender shirt with a black stripe. I don't see a bar along the right side in that one.
If it was a heat thing making the stick show up, it seems like there should be some from the armpits too (maybe?)


A Thermal Bigfoot Seeker will help your search a LOT!
Toting one of those along is a good idea.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: gnu
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 07:57 PM

It seems to be about little foot to a ceratin extent.... or non extent... as the case may be.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Rapparee
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 08:11 PM

Okay, Sister....

Folks had better get used to the fact that there is NO real security and never has been.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 08:52 PM

Well, screw it...

Lets just require that everyone fly nude??? That's right... Heck with takin' yer belt off and the keys outta yer pocket... Just give everyone a contractors bag and tell 'um to "fill it up"...

That put an end to this silliness...

Might make flyin' more fun, too...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: mousethief
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 11:08 PM

A CBS News poll released Tuesday also showed that a large majority of Americans agree with him. Only 15 percent of respondents said they were opposed to the use of body scanners, with four out of five saying they're in favor.

Thoughtcrime has to be fought by the citizens themselves.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: mousethief
Date: 18 Nov 10 - 02:44 AM

I could almost go along with this if they only groped Mexican-looking people who refused to show their immigration papers.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Nov 10 - 10:20 AM

Pillows $5 extra
blankets $5 extra
oversize overweight luggage up to $50 extra
TSA happy endings $20 extra.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Nov 10 - 10:35 AM

Janet Napolitano?

Genital Apolitano is the name the right wing radio jocks use.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Stu
Date: 18 Nov 10 - 10:54 AM

If someone gets their yah-yah's looking at my meat and two veg on a body scanner monitor then good luck to them. I'd rather be scanned and groped around the cods along with everyone else than run into trouble in mid-air.

In our flight from the UK to Chicago earlier this year it was the poor lady who, er, defecated in her seat mid-flight that took our mind off the problem. That and the huge thunderstom that closed O'Hare. And landing at Milwaukee as we were running out of fuel. All the while with the smell. Probably the only people who wanted to get off the plane more than us were the unfortunate lady and her husband.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 18 Nov 10 - 11:25 AM

You were obviously browned off with that flight then Sugarfoot Jack.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Nov 10 - 12:06 PM

You would gladly submit to _______procedure IF it meant you would then avoid any _______.



The problem with that IF is

TSA has never (not even once) prevented any nefarious act aboard an airplane. And it never will... says Isreali head of airline security.
The intelligent methods they use are nearly opposite the TSA.

The man you know who stands to profit handsomely from the X ray scanners is Chertof the former head of FEMA under W Bush. Chertof is an investor and not an expert on security.

The heads of our airline TSA security are not trained professionals in the field. One was a former railraod executive and the other was a a corporate executive in charge of intra business sales.

Guess what

None of the airplane food service people or packages, first class mail, luggage handlers, fuel technicians and ground support staff are scanned. Applaud crotch searches all you want but...

If you actually cared or were really gung ho about security you might want something done about the people who are not checked and are messing with your planes day in day out all year long.