BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 02:52 PM

Good ol' Blog-O-Pedia! Must be true.....

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 03:40 PM

"If the guy in Arizona had used a 5-shot revolver he'd never have gotten off 31 shots."
right! He'd ONLY have shot the congresswoman, and her aide...and perhaps the judge...and the 9 year old girl. That would have been MUCH better...

No, it wouldn't have been MUCH better. But the fact that he was able to fire off 20 rounds as fast as he could pull the trigger and guickly reload using a prefilled magazine undeniably made it MUCH worse. There is no "better" when someone uses a gun against another person, only degrees of "worse".

The only way to stop anything bad from happening courtesy of guns is to ban 'em all, and that is NOT going to happen. If you think it CAN happen, I'll join you in your living room on Easter Sunday morning and we'll both wait for the Easter Bunny to come hopping through the door. But I think banning weapons for which there is absolutely no logical reason or justification for civilian ownership is a reasonable step that would prevent the WORST of the bad things that happen when guns get pulled.

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: olddude
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 04:43 PM

Hey Bee would you been happier if the guy threw a home made pipe bomb instead? How is that going to change anything? Just wondering and do you think the criminal is going to lay his down because of the ban? Isn't crack cocaine ban? I guess we still have no cocaine problem in this country ...

doesn't make sense

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 04:54 PM

The problem with semi-automatics is that unless you are high skilled after the first round is fired it's a crap shoot... A 9mm has quite a recoil and when fired very quickly, as in as fast as one can pull the trigger, the rest of the shots go where they want... This is true especially in the hands of someone in a real life scenario where the adrenalin is pumpin'... This would be a good handgun to regulate...

But I can go buy one just about any time I want to in Richmond, Va. during one of their one-a-month, arm-a-thon gun shows where all you need is cash...

Actually, I'd like to see all semi-automatics regulated... That means registration (no exceptions) and gun safety certificates required to purchase one...

Fir mom and pop afraid of the bad guys comin' in their house there are plenty of much safer guns than semi-automatics...Especially 9mm which is a purdy danged bigass slug...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 05:05 PM

Best home defense weapon is a 12 ga. shotgun anyway - not a handgun.

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: olddude
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 05:06 PM

Semi auto's like I have require a lot of training. You bet everything you said Bobster is correct in regard to ownership. I can tack nails with any of mine but hell I trained police and military how to use them. A wheel gun is safer for sure. However when a nut case start firing any weapon into a crowd it doesn't matter really.   In my state, all handguns are registered. You cannot own a handgun of any type unless you have a permit and it is not easy to get and is expensive. I think the best thing to get many of them off the street is to change that gun show law. It is always blocked by the NRA and I tell you what, no hunter will have his rights hurt if they have to wait the required time to buy their deer rifle or shotgun .. You are so right about your state, it is the supplier to most all of the criminals via gun show.

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 04:17 PM

olddude asks..(rhetorically, I presume)

"·.would you been happier if the guy threw a home made pipe bomb instead? How is that going to change anything?"

Well, *I* would be happier if a nut HAD to learn how to make a bomb and throw it accurately, than just to buy an off-the-rack Glock with extra magazines! A lot fewer would try!....and a lot of them would never manage it. Pipe bombs require buying straight gunpowder or even more harder to find stuff, and assembling it just right...

Sorry Dan, but that is a 'straw man' argument.

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: olddude
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 04:30 PM

Not really Bill, but I do hear your comment and take it with merit. You are correct that gun laws need to be revise in certain areas, uniform via federal government i think. Some state it is really easy. Some states it is really hard .. Some uniform codes would be a welcome thing, like getting rid of gun shows and the like loopholes. No ban will ever work .. like I said in the other thread they had that for 25 years in Washington DC and the rate still goes up.

The internet has been a windfall for the nut jobs. They can learn how to make plastique in their bathroom with house hold chemical .. it is all insanity actually my friend. Maybe if we get back to teaching our kids about morality and the preciousness of human life, maybe we will progress. I can only pray

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: olddude
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 04:46 PM

What I like Bill and maybe we are saying the same thing in different ways. Here is what I would love to see
1)federal conceal carry standards that take the "go to this state it is easy" out of the equation

2) get rid of gun show loopholes so people don't go to Bob's state and bring back an arsenal into NY like my state sees

3) private sales of shotguns and rifles etc, make it so the private citizen has to get the police background check first. right now there is no law anywhere to prevent a private citizen from selling to a felon. The felon knows he cannot legally own but no responsibility is place on the seller to check first.

These steps make sense to me

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 05:16 PM

Unfortunately, one of those areas than would take a constitutional amendment to get uniform laws across the country.

In Canada, rifles and shotguns show up at auctions, but the auctioneer must demand an approved license with police check before handing the gun over. Handguns that show up in estates (unless licensed target types) must be turned over to the police, and it is not easy to re-register the target guns.
Rifles and shotguns must be registered (national registry) but there is much opposition, at least in western Canada, and some hunters refuse to register.

The drug gangs here in Canada all have handguns, brought across the border with little difficulty.

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 05:29 PM

I would happily approve of changes in laws about sales of firearms like olddude suggests. Many guns used in crimes in Wash DC have been traced to sales in the Virginia gun shows Bobert mentions.

I would also REALLY hope for ownership to be limited to those people who pass a carefully controlled course and detailed background check...including school records and mental health evaluations. I know several people who I know have 'carry' permits who I would never worry about... but it isn't the trained, sane ones we usually worry about.

I say 'usually'...for some reason, I remember the name Howard Unrauh, who was an army veteran and supposedly 'safe'.

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 05:39 PM

To paraphrase Pat Paulsen, "Guns don't kill people. Bullets do."

A good friend of mine once said to me, "So, now we have to register our guns (I'm in Canada). What is the government going to do that I don't like?"

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: gnu
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 05:54 PM

olddude, and others, are speaking good sense.

It occured to me that many may read my posts as anti-gun laws in the altogether. Far from the truth.

But, here in Canuckistan, one law has got to go. The idea that you cannot defend your property, yourself and your family with a gun is just messed up. It invites crime into the homes of the defenseless. And there have been far too many such crimes since the idiotic laws regarding safe and secure storage were put into place. They preclude self defense for a lot of people where such needn't be imposed but such defense has become obviously necessary.

Otherwise defenseless people have paid DEARLY. Friends of mine have been brutally murdered with knives, swords, mauls... sick shit man. And all because of the storage laws which do not allow self defense by law abiding people... even those who do not own guns. Read that again... even those who DO NOT OWN GUNS. Think it through. You might be the next victim. It's a ridiculous law and it has cost people their lives. Good laws are good. Idiotic laws are bad.

Again, if I don't answer posts addressed to me on this thread/issue it's because it's been done a hundred times before on other threads.

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 06:47 PM

""In my state, all handguns are registered. You cannot own a handgun of any type unless you have a permit and it is not easy to get and is expensive.""

With respect Dan, shouldn't that read "In my state, all handguns are registered. You cannot own a handgun of any type unless you have a permit and it is not easy to get and is expensive, or unless you are a drug dealer, bank robber, or serial killer"?

There are two separate matters here, surely.

1. Outlaw guns and only outlaws will have guns.

2. Banning all handguns which confer more firepower than would ever be needed to send a burglar running for the hills would seem to be a better idea than any total ban.

I live in the UK where, thank God, handguns are neither allowed, nor needed, in private possession. The situation in the States is different, and I wouldn't presume to judge it on the basis of UK experience.

I have an absolute loathing of any device designed specifically for killing human beings, but circumstances alter cases, and unless the criminals' guns can be taken away first, a total ban would IMHO play right into their hands.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 06:52 PM

Jeez ol dude, jus how many crmnals you know anyhow?

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: michaelr
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 06:55 PM

From here:

"TUCSON, Ariz. – Jared Loughner had trouble with the law, was rejected by the Army after flunking a drug test and was considered so mentally unstable that he was banned from his college campus, where officials considered him a threat to other students and faculty.

But the 22-year-old had no trouble buying the Glock semiautomatic pistol that authorities say he used in the Tucson rampage Saturday that left six dead and 14 injured, including Rep. Gabrielle Giffords.

Loughner's personal history did not disqualify him under federal rules, and Arizona doesn't regulate gun sales. His criminal charges were ultimately dismissed, the Army information was private and Pima Community College isn't saying whether it shared its concerns about Loughner with anyone besides his parents.

Loughner cleared a federal background check and bought the pistol at a big-box sports store near his home on Nov. 30 — two months after he was suspended by the college. He customized the weapon with an extended ammunition clip that would have been illegal six years earlier."

Arizona doesn't regulate gun sales. In fact there is a bill pending in the state legislature now that would allow teachers and students to carry firearms in class.

Am I the only one who thinks this is completely insane?

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: olddude
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 06:56 PM

Don
I was former law enforcement , hence all but 1 of my encounters .. you are right ,, it should read that way

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 07:00 PM

I have an absolute loathing of any device designed specifically for killing human beings...

Like the Armed Forces, for instance?

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: olddude
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 07:25 PM

I can't type, I can't spell, dang these fingers ...

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 07:57 PM

As a matter of interest... I looked up how to get statistics, and found The Center for Disease Control, which allows you to select areas...

I asked for:

10 Leading Causes of Violence-Related Injury Deaths, United States
1999 - 2007, All Races, Both Sexes...ages from 18-85
The top two were:
1)Suicide
Firearm
148,193

2)Homicide
Firearm
97,768

That's for 8 years...and it is only DEATHS..not gunshot wounds which were not fatal.

Total, 245,971... divided by 8...30,745 per year...divided by 365 = about 84 per day, most of which are only 'local statistics'.

Leave out suicides..(though family & friends might wish that a gun had not been handy).. and it's 'only' about 1/3 the total..maybe 25-30 per day.

Mass homicides are only a temporary spike in daily statistics. I wonder what the NRA thinks of those figures?

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: olddude
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 08:06 PM

Bill
my understand is those stats are pretty darn close to being right. Now if we separated out those that are legally owned and those that are illegal the stats drop .. Kinda like drug deaths, if the look at just pot and then cocaine, the numbers change. Don't know anyone who died from pot but there maybe dunno .. but cocaine .. staggering. They will produce stats that say xyz% of death from illegal drugs .. and lump pot into the equasion. In short, there are a heck of a lot of people that shouldn't be allow to carry a crayon never the less a firearm.

I do so like the way NY does it. Most NRA reps will call me a communist

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 08:20 PM

Suicides, 2004
U. S. 9-12/100,000
Canada- 9-12/100,000
Australia- 9-12/100,000
Russia- 33/100,000
France- 15-18/100,000
Brasil- 6-9/100,000
Mexico- 6-9/100,000

Doesn't matter the weapon, people do the job if they wish.
I may be somewhat off on these figures, the colors on the Wiki map are hard to separate.

Homocides, 2004
U. S. 5.5/100,000
UK- 1.8/100,000 approx.
You look up the rest.

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: olddude
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 09:27 PM

bobster, a 9mm is a pretty tame caliber in the grand scope of things. You maybe be thinking the old .45. The government and police force went to the .40 cal which is a 10mm. Slightly smaller than the .45 but much harder hitting than the 9mm. When engaged, too many after hit shots were fired by the bad guy when the 9mm was use. With the .40 much less the case.

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: michaelr
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 09:42 PM

Guess I am the only one.

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 09:42 PM

33 bullets in a clip is a toy. How about 293 bullets in the clip!?

If the 33'e are banned be sure not to mention the 298s

33 clips followed by a 298 clip at the end

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 09:48 PM

I am a former member of a NRA shoot team, Ol'ster... I gotta 22/410 over under with a 18 inch barrel, open sights and can hold a 10 shot pattern at 100 feet with the .22 at right at 4 inches... Open sights!!! Now I understand that Rap can hold it to 2 inches but the point is that a 9mm semi-automatic ain't all that accurate in the hands of someone who has not put in alot of practice, like me, is a crap shoot... I fired 10 rounds rapidly with one at 100 feet and hit the target...

But taht really ain't the issue here... The real issue is that those of us who feel that we need stronger gun regs, which BTW most cops and former cops are 100% behind, just don't have the resources to go up against the NRA... When God runs short of money He gets a loan from them... They have so much money its unreal!!!

That is the issue here... Give me 1/2 of what they have to wage a a campaign and I'll guarantee you that I could turn public opinion around so fast that Repubs would be fighting each other to introduce sane gun control policy...

It's all about $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: Ed T
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 10:07 PM

Self protection

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 10:07 PM

michealr

If you were completly insane you could not buy a gun in NY, but come on down to Virginia Carolina SC AR or TX, we don't know how to spell insane down here, at least we don't let it get in the way of gun sales. Insane or not guns can be fun but have about the same risk of something going wrong as driving a Ford Fiesta with an open gas tank in the back seat and a vandegraf generator in the front.



but seriously folks

The gun lobby has never been defeated. They did take one hit when assault weapons were temporarily suspended, but they are back now.
You know of course you can legally buy anti aircraft and surface to air armaments.

I knew a DC cop who got thrown off the force for killing too many underage black kids and made a living from selling hard ball ammo to African civil war generals.

If a republican voted for any restrictive gun legislation he would be called a RINO and would be gone. Even Dick Cheney voted FOR cop killer bullets and undetectable plastic ceramic guns made by Glock.

I don't know about this month but this last year has shown America the first ammo shortage crises since the Revolutionary war.


We can try but in themeantime I think I'll search for all the songs about guns and the blues...

Insane's just another word for nothing left to lose
Nothing, I mean nothing honey if it ain't free, no no
Yeah feeling sane was easy Lord when he sang the blues
You know feeling good was good enough for me
Good enough for me and my Bobby McGee.

From Kentucky coal mine to the California sun
Yeah Bobby shared the secrets of my soul
Through all kinds of weather, through everything we done
Yeah Bobby baby kept me from the cold world
One day a near Selina Lord, cleaned his glock19
He looked in the barrel, and found one in the chamber
But I'd trade all of my tomorrows for one single yesterday
Now I'm holdin' Bobby's body next to mine

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: Mike in Brunswick
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 10:15 PM

From Mother Jones Magazine

What if 31 Shots Had Been Only 10?

— By Josh Harkinson
| Tue Jan. 11, 2011 3:00 AM PST

The Tucson shooter's killing frenzy finally came to an end on Saturday after he allegedly emptied his semiautomatic Glock handgun of its 31 bullets. According to witness reports, as he was changing the clip, a wounded woman tried to grab the gun from him. His next shot jammed before two men wrestled him to the ground.

Before 2004, when the Federal Assault Weapons Ban expired, the shooter never would have been able to get off so many shots before pausing to reload. The ban, enacted in 1994 in the wake of mass killings in San Francisco and Waco, limited gun magazines to a maximum of ten rounds. Assuming that the shooter would've achieved the same hit ratio with the smaller clip, he would have shot six people and maybe killed one or two instead of shooting 20 and killing half a dozen.

"If he was restricted to a 10-round magazine, lives could have been saved," says Daniel Vice, a senior attorney with the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence. According to a 2004 study (PDF) by the University of Pennsylvania's Jerry Lee Center of Criminology, "attacks with semiautomatics—including assault weapons and other semiautomatics equipped with large capacity magazines—result in more shots fired, more persons hit, and more wounds inflicted per victim than to attacks with other firearms."

The Brady Campaign is supporting a new bill by Carolyn McCarthy (D-NY) that would renew the Assault Weapons Ban, a Democratic priority that the Obama administration had essentially abandoned.

Of course, a renewed ban will do little to get rid of the thousands of high-capacity clips already in circulation. While seven states and the District of Columbia ban clips of the sort Jared Loughner allegedly used, they're widely available in Arizona gun stores and enthusiastically marketed by gun makers. As the Glock website puts it: "Compact and subcompact GLOCK pistol model magazines can be loaded with a convincing number of rounds."

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 10:20 PM

How much money would it take to buy an effective gun law?

You gotta be talkin more than a presidential election.

Start with penny drives by 9 year olds in their schools
Then go to 10 year olds
Then get the police to join the drive
Then get organizations like Salvation Army, Mega Churchs
Then do a money drive with high schools
Start a pay it forward campaign after a nationally notable shooting
Get TV personalities to start a drive, Hell Lawrence ODonnel got millions for his plea to buy Desks.

Islolate those who will not join the drive and show all the shootings in his town etc.

IF MONEY is the only issue, it can be done.




on the dark side...

What if the NRA started losing their leases, property, credibility, members. What if we found the NRA supplying our enemies or terrorists ? Even if it were three degrees of seperation, a number of such links would go a long way.

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 10:22 PM

Ed m give me a minute and I'll show you what I can do with that machine gun that will turn heads.

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 10:38 PM

Hmmmm??? A lot somehow didn't take on my last post...

The point I was making is that out of 10 shots I hit the target 2 times... Where the other shots went is unknown in relation to the target...

BTW, that was the erased part of my above post in regards to the 9mm semi-automatic... In other words??? In the hands of folks who know very little, which 2-outta-10-shots-in-the-target-me does not qualify for my own decent skills, I would think that we really don't need to have these guns... They are extremely difficult to use safely in the average un-practiced Joe's (me) hands and they can kill way too many people way too fast...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: olddude
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 10:47 PM

Bobster
my experience as an instructor both with special forces and with the Sheriff office, dang few people can shoot really well with a handgun. After a zillion rounds the Seal guys can shoot and I mean shoot but too many police officers don't put the time in. They shoot enough to qualify each year to stay on the job but not enough for combat. That actually is a real problem. In a situation like just happened a cop needs to be able to drop the bad guy without hitting an innocent .. My feeling, don't carry if you can't really shoot. The FBI guys can shoot, CIA can shoot all of special forces but you are right, it is like anything, it is all about training. many people won't do it.

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 10:58 PM

We one the exact same page, Ol-ster...

That's just another reason to get these guns outta everyone's hand other than cops... Make it $5000 and 6 months fir owning one without being certified to use it and havin' it registered (ballistic fingerprints on file) and I'd guarantee you that we'd start to get these (and similar handguns) outta circulation and I'd bet that would save between 10,000 and 15,000 lives a year here in the US...

That ain't chump change when it comes to lives...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Jan 11 - 12:05 PM

and so it goes..

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: olddude
Date: 12 Jan 11 - 12:35 PM

LOL, yup Bill that pretty much sums it up LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 12 Jan 11 - 12:41 PM

Re. gun laws - http://walkaboutsverse.webs.com/#100

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: olddude
Date: 12 Jan 11 - 12:41 PM

hey Bill
for xmas next year, can I buy you one of these

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: olddude
Date: 12 Jan 11 - 12:43 PM

recommend the .338 lapua with a ghillie suit

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Jan 11 - 12:48 PM

Dan... No, send it to this teacher instead

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: olddude
Date: 12 Jan 11 - 12:50 PM

God we are a messed up society aren't we. At least the .338 is a great gun for elk hunting or sheep. But good grief... a bargain price at 3K. I would rather have a great Martin guitar myself. My doc buddie has one, took a moose with it ... and probably the side of the mountain also.

8.60x70mm (.338 Lapua)

The .338 is fairly new to the sniper community, but it does bear the distinction as being the first and only caliber designed specifically for sniping. While this round was actually developed back in 1983, it wasn't until the last few years that it has gained in popularity. The caliber was designed to arrive at 1000 meters with enough energy to penetrate 5 layers of military body armor and still make the kill. The effective range of this caliber is about 1 mile (1600meters) and in the right shooting conditions, it could come very close to the 2000 meter mark, provided you have the right rifle/ammo/optics/shooter/spotter combination. Realistically, 1200 meters is well within the average sniper. This caliber is designed primarily as a military extreme range anti-personnel round, there really is no Law Enforcement applications, unless you need a super penetrating round for either armored vehicles, or for barricaded suspects. There is not a lot of rifles chambered for the .338, but the list is growing with the likes of Sako, AI, and others producing .338 sniping rifles. Ammo is another problem, match ammo is sometimes difficult to find, but it is becomming more available as time passes. We all know the legal liability of using hand loads, so that is out of the question. Another concern is the recoil of this caliber, even with a good muzzle brake, its brisk. So don't try a rifle without one. Be sure to practice the fundamentals of shooting to try and prevent a flinch from developing.

Recommendations: For military extreme long-range anti-personnel purposes, the .338 Lapua is king. Even the .50BMG falls short (Do to accuracy problems with current ammo). This caliber is not recommended for Law Enforcement.

Military Applications

I have chosen the Lapua factory load with a 250gr FMJ-BT at 3000fps (Wow!). This load has some awsome down range ballistics.

.338 Lapua 250gr FMJ-BT (LockBase) at 3000fps

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Jan 11 - 12:54 PM

I suppose these are all legal

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Jan 11 - 12:57 PM

Concerned? Why would I be concerned?

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 12 Jan 11 - 01:01 PM

Just why USAians need guns is beyond me - something lacking somewhere.

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: olddude
Date: 12 Jan 11 - 01:02 PM

Bill
watch what you say about my cousins LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: olddude
Date: 12 Jan 11 - 01:04 PM

Naw, those kids needed a bit more firepower. Where is the .338 sniper rifle ... those parents are neglecting their kids buying toys geeze...


LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Jan 11 - 01:06 PM

This woman is a county commissioner in Washington County, PA...

http://www.irey.com/issues.php

She says.."Freedom isn't free. Our country has a long and dignified history of personal responsibility and accountability. For generations, our ancestors have lived in a country where they were free, and able, and expected to defend themselves, their families, and their homes. I believe that it is important that we maintain these rights for ourselves, and for generations to come."

This is the image she uses to illustrate her point

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Jan 11 - 01:07 PM

(These kids have 'better' toys, hmmm.?)

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: olddude
Date: 12 Jan 11 - 01:09 PM

I do hope they converted those AR's to full auto for the kids. You can't have fun shooting up the neighborhood if ya gotta keep pulling the trigger. It costs 8 bucks in parts to do so by the way.

Subject: RE: BS: Stl thnk we dn't nd mre restrct gn laws?
From: olddude
Date: 12 Jan 11 - 01:12 PM

Although I have to admit my arsenal is pretty darn good. But that is because relatives keep dying and leaving them to me. I am proud to say mine are all deer rifles and shotguns for hunting. Except of course my personal handguns. I hunt with a handgun or did since I don't hunt anymore. So yes handguns can be used for hunting ... but that takes a lot of skill to do so ... most people wouldn't do that