BS: Europe forges fiscal union/Cameron Veto

Subject: RE: BS: Europe forges fiscal union/Cameron Veto
From: michaelr
Date: 11 Dec 11 - 09:00 PM

"Britain had shared the outlines of its thinking with some of its partners, officials said, but it hadn't circulated anything approaching a document sufficiently detailed to form the basis of discussion. For that reason, the demands were news to many of the people around the table. But it wasn't just the way Cameron went about it, it was the substance of the demands. He was effectively asking for a softening of regulation on Britain's financial sector at a time when many voters and politicians believe banks are largely to blame for the crisis Europe is suffering and want tighter regulation on the sector.

"Politically speaking, when the banks are considered the enemy and the root of all the problems we have today, Cameron's arguments were the wrong arguments at the wrong time for the wrong people. Politically, he was dead from the start."

From this analysis.

Subject: RE: BS: Europe forges fiscal union/Cameron Veto
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 12 Dec 11 - 03:33 AM

ALL pensions, except the government statutory Old Age Pension, and Civil Service pensions, which are paid out of current tax take. Are invested by the pension funds, in the city. In government bonds, and stocks and shares.
IF the activities of these investors, and bankers is curtailed, and their remuneration limited by statute, they will not have the incentive to try harder. Then the already reduced profits that they produce for private pensions, will fall even further.
Even pensioners pay tax, and help fund the pensions paid from general taxation. So in effect, the more they earn, the more tax is paid, both by the investors, and the pensioners.
In short, they are a necessary evil.

Subject: RE: BS: Europe forges fiscal union/Cameron Veto
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 12 Dec 11 - 04:17 AM

Money is the root of all evil and it seems the FSA has firmly come out fighting.
Quote from BBC News today.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16135247

Subject: RE: BS: Europe forges fiscal union/Cameron Veto
From: Arnie
Date: 12 Dec 11 - 09:27 AM

Why all this worry about a possible referendum on the UK leaving the EU? If the electorate vote to leave, then the Gov't, backed by the EU, will interpret this as the wrong decision. We will then have to hold another referendum, and possibly more after that until we get the 'right' decision and vote to stay in. It's known as the Irish method.

Subject: RE: BS: Europe forges fiscal union/Cameron Veto
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 12 Dec 11 - 09:43 AM

""I'd be very surprised if this would have been true for countries outside the Eurozone. Could you produce your source for that assertion, Don.""

BBC NEWS! I understood from the analysis of that news by at least three individual financial "experts" that the twenty six had agreed to oversight of there fiscal activities by Brussels, not just the Eurozone seventeen.

If I am wrong, it is because I took three such statements to be likely, on the balance of probabilities, to be correct.

In any case, the suggestion that allowing a foreign power to tax and monitor the City would not trigger a referendum would be very much open to challenge, and a judge might decide that it would indeed trigger the requirements of the new law. The government would then have to obey its own Act of Parliament.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Europe forges fiscal union/Cameron Veto
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 12 Dec 11 - 10:18 AM

""Q - may I remind you of my request for your sources on those trade statistics?""

You may remind me, but I only made one comment on trade, which hardly warrants the description "statistics".

The comment that 40% of our trade was with Europe came from statements on BBC news by spokesmen for the CBI, the Bank of England, and the ONS, all of whom seemed happy with it as a close approximation to the real figure.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Europe forges fiscal union/Cameron Veto
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Dec 11 - 10:35 AM

You mis-read me Don. My request was to Q.

Subject: RE: BS: Europe forges fiscal union/Cameron Veto
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 12 Dec 11 - 10:43 AM

Indeed! My apologies.

When somebody puts a "Q" before the start of a question, I tend to read it as an abbreviation of "Question", as in a "Q & A session".

Don T

Subject: RE: BS: Europe forges fiscal union/Cameron Veto
From: GUEST,Jim Knowledge
Date: 12 Dec 11 - 11:54 AM

I `ad that Angela Merkl in my cab the other day. She`d been `aving a look for the nastiest Christmas card she could find for Berlusconi after all `is `orrible remarks.
I said, "Morgen Angie. It`s taken 98 years but you finally won. Now that you got most of them voting for you to approve their budgets and deficits do you think they will all cough up for that loan you propose to give to the International Monetary Fund from which you propose to bail them all out? Seems a bit of a round-a-bout to me."
She said, "Mein Gott!! I bloomin` `ope so other wise I`m gesunken with my electorate!!"

Whaddam I Like??

Subject: RE: BS: Europe forges fiscal union/Cameron Veto
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 12 Dec 11 - 03:58 PM

UK trade figures are widely published and on the net. A quick google turns them up. Why bother to link when it is just as quick to put the question in google?

For a start, see http://www.economywatch.com/world_economy/united-kingdom/export-import.html
The export diagram is a little hard to read, but the USA receives 33.5 billion pounds in exports, Germany 24.8 billion, etc.

Interesting is that UK's largest export is medicaments, followed by petrol, and the biggest import category is manufactured goods.

Subject: RE: BS: Europe forges fiscal union/Cameron Veto
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 12 Dec 11 - 04:23 PM

We need to get Manufacturing back as our top priority. Also we need incentives to Export.

Subject: RE: BS: Europe forges fiscal union/Cameron Veto
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Dec 11 - 05:14 PM

You, Q, made the point. Up to you to support it.

Subject: RE: BS: Europe forges fiscal union/Cameron Veto
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Dec 11 - 07:48 PM

Just watched Paxman sticking it to Paddy Ashdown. What a diplomat Ashdown is. Paxman was leaning relentlessly on him to call David Cameron a useless c--t. And yet somehow he evaded it.

Rapier wit.

Seems that DC introduced his proposals at 2.30 in the morning when everyone wanted to go home. So they all told him to get stuffed. The Polish guy was saying - why on earth didn't he mention all this at 2.30 in the afternoon.

Oh well! i suppose they'll all have a few more days out on expenses to sort out this misunderstanding.

Subject: RE: BS: Europe forges fiscal union/Cameron Veto
From: MikeL2
Date: 13 Dec 11 - 06:30 AM

Hi

DC was in a difficult position in between a rock and a hard place.

So it was obvious to most people that some thought and approach was required to negotiate our position.

Cameron and the Public School part of his Government don't do negotiation. They just shout and expect people to jump to their requests tugging forelock as they do so.

fag packets and loud-hailers don't work in the situation we are in.

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Europe forges fiscal union/Cameron Veto
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 13 Dec 11 - 07:45 AM

If David would have agreed to the terms Europe set out, the usual mob here would have said he lacked backbone and was a poodle to Germany.

What would Labour have done ?

It was a hard call,I feel he made the right one. Now get us to hell out of Europe.