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pop music DOES all sound the same
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Subject: RE: pop music DOES all sound the same From: GUEST,Stim Date: 10 Aug 12 - 12:33 AM God love you, Phil Edwards, but I've got some terrible news for you, and that is that the "folk music" of today is the music that most people know, not the music that people in folk clubs play. What people will remember in the future will be distilled from what is popular today--why would it be any other way? |
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Subject: RE: pop music DOES all sound the same From: GUEST,Charles Macfarlane Date: 10 Aug 12 - 09:21 AM > From: Rob Naylor > > How did they decide what's "pop" when selecting the half million songs to base their analysis on? Since it was Spanish researchers, did they use Spanish charts, UK charts, US charts of what as selection criteria? > > Did they include, with hindsight, a lot of older songs that didn't figure as "pop" at the time, but as "underground rock" and if so did they balance them up with current non-chart "indie" songs that are relatively unknown in the mainstream? > > In fact, I looked up the "million song dataset" > ... > (From "The Million Song Dataset Challenge" by Brian McFee et al) A link would have made it easier to comment on your comments. > Having gone through this paper, which deals with the "Taste Profile Subset" I'm still not much wiser as to how they define "pop" music. From what I can see, in this dataset, a song like Pink Floyd's "Wish You Were Here" would make the list on play-count alone, though it would never have been regarded as a "pop" song when released as an album track in 1975 and wasn't even ever released as a single until 1995! the same applies to many songs from the 60s and 70s which were never in any "commercial pop" when originally released but have since become iconic anthems of the period. > > How to compare these "fairly" with what's being produced "underground" these days, and which may well be as varied in its own terms as the "non-pop-pop" of 40-50 years ago was? > > If the review was confined to just singles chart tracks of the relevant period, I suspect the results would show that "top 20 hits" of every period have been structurally limited, similar and "battery farm pop". When I look back to stuff that was in the charts in the days I started listening to "underground music" it was mostly as bland and anodyne (though not quite as loud) as what's in the charts now. This is the first critical comment I've seen that might have some genuine scientific foundation. One of the surest ways to lie with statistics is in the choice of the dataset, or the criteria applied to it. Derek Brimstone used to say something like: "What these people say is that the first day of your life is the most dangerous, but the last one's pretty dodgy too!" In the 80s the police began a campaign against drunken driving, using a statistic like: "X% of accidents involve alcohol!" I can't remember exactly what X was, but my point is, if a drunken pedestrian suddenly lurched out in front of a stone cold sober driver and was hit, that would be included in X, so the choice of that particular statistic was deliberately misleading, and was presumably done to give a bigger value of X than would have a more appropriate statistic such as the percentage of accidents involving drivers found to have alcohol in their blood. The points you raise about song selection for the database are valid. It would certainly be interesting to know more. > From: GUEST,Stim > > As I may have let on, I think the research is lame, in addition to being completely wrong. Surely it can't be both? It's either lame, in which case it's only partially flawed, or it's completely wrong, in which case it's totally flawed. Given that these things are peer-reviewed, etc, I think the latter is unlikely. > Here is a list of The Top 100 Songs from 1962 "100 Greatest Songs From 1962 Criteria: - These records were chosen and ranked based on their initial and lasting popularity, and on their impact on the overall scope of musical history. Records are listed based on the year that they were released." So that list is flawed as well, because it's partly based on hindsight. If it is true that pop music today is more simplified than that of fifty years ago, those making a selection today such as the above are likely to skew the results by applying modern criteria to produce the selection. You could try this: 1962 > this statement, "In particular, we obtained numerical indicators that the diversity of transitions between note combinations - chords plus melodies t has consistently lessened in the last 50 years." doesn't even make sense. Can't find that sentence in the original research page. |
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Subject: RE: pop music DOES all sound the same From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker Date: 10 Aug 12 - 09:41 AM Charles please could you use the simple & proven effective communicational convention of "Quotation marks".* Your increasingly lengthy multi quote referencing posts are such an eye-strain to untangle they are rendered almost unreadable. In fact almost too jumbled to even begin to try reading.... * eg: "Here is a list of The Top 100 Songs from 1962" italics are optional, but I prefere to use them for improved clarity. |
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Subject: RE: pop music DOES all sound the same From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker Date: 10 Aug 12 - 09:51 AM Now back to the topic of debate. As unreliable and spurious as this 'scientific' research may be, we need to consider for whom these 'findings' will be of most benefit and a source of increased 'indisputable' cultural power...?? In a similar way to how & why the Nazi party needed Eugenics and other sham fashionable modern state of the art sciences to prove theories of racial purity and superiority.... The POP RESISTANCE will fight back against cruel oppressors !!! |
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Subject: RE: pop music DOES all sound the same From: catspaw49 Date: 10 Aug 12 - 09:58 AM Well Macfarlane, after continuing reading you have convinced me you are both interested in shit and full of it. My mistake. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: pop music DOES all sound the same From: GUEST,Blandiver Date: 10 Aug 12 - 10:33 AM When I was a kid I had a friend who could tell me the make, type and engine size of the unseen car coming around the corner just by the sound it made. We were about 10 at the time, but even so I was sure it was some sort of trick. Was he using reflections in house windows? But no - he could tell them all, where all I heard was a car engine (though I might, at a push tell if it was diesel). I've since met others who can do exactly this - & car mechanics who can tell by the sound of our healthy car engine that all is not as well as we'd hoped. That said, I can just imagine one of said mechanics (maybe my old childhood pal himself; he had the splendid name of David Crackett though I think he went into double-glazing) muttering his cups: "Trouble with pop music today - all sounds the bloody same!" * Ever visited that sight that tells you the Number One Pop Song for your birthday? I did, and got THIS ghastly piece of formulaic MOR dross which I guess was the one of the reasons things just had to get better, which they did, and continue to do so without petty studies like this wasting precious time & resources. |
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Subject: RE: pop music DOES all sound the same From: GUEST,Blandiver Date: 10 Aug 12 - 10:40 AM Oops! The correct link to my Birthday Number One: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5I2cG-ed6hw I can only wish that such an ensemble as Hesperion XXI had been Number One on the day I arrived on Planet Earth, but, truth was, no one was doing that back then either. Just listen to so called Early Music from the 50s & Early 60s and most of that it heavy handed lifeless formulaic dross as well. It took the mid-late 60s youthful zeitgeist to blow the cobwebs off & kick-start all manner of musics into the sort of diverse life which these days we take for granted. |
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Subject: RE: pop music DOES all sound the same From: GUEST,Charles Macfarlane Date: 10 Aug 12 - 10:46 AM > From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker > > Charles please could you use the simple & proven effective communicational convention of "Quotation marks".* And what if there is something within quotation marks within the quoted part of the post? The real problem is that Mudcat doesn't provide even the most basic form of text formatting to simplify applying italics or similar. > From: catspaw49 > > Well Macfarlane, after continuing reading you have convinced me you are both interested in shit and full of it. My mistake. Your mistake is to fail to realise that abuse the is the last refuge of a loser. |
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Subject: RE: pop music DOES all sound the same From: GUEST,Charles Macfarlane Date: 10 Aug 12 - 10:57 AM > From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker > Date: 10 Aug 12 - 09:51 AM > > Now back to the topic of debate. > > As unreliable and spurious as this 'scientific' research may be, > we need to consider for whom these 'findings' will be of most benefit > and a source of increased 'indisputable' cultural power...?? Supposing that these results are followed up, and sufficiently widely accepted, neither of which is at all certain, I suspect that those who might benefit most might actually be music industry moguls, who might use it to justify concentrating expenditure ever more on mainstream work. > In a similar way to how & why the Nazi party needed Eugenics > and other sham fashionable modern state of the art sciences > to prove theories of racial purity and superiority.... > > The POP RESISTANCE will fight back against cruel oppressors !!! Dear me, if this is meant to be serious (there is no smiley) you really have got conspiracy theory bad, haven't you? Have you been taking your anti-paranoia medication? |
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Subject: RE: pop music DOES all sound the same From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker Date: 10 Aug 12 - 11:08 AM yep.. Charley Macfullofhimself has leached onto this thread to show off his vast knowledge and superior intellect & wit.... you need 'smileys' ??? .. it's a lovely sunny day, try chilling out to some Herman's Hermits & Bay City Rollers... |
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Subject: RE: pop music DOES all sound the same From: GUEST,Blandiver Date: 10 Aug 12 - 11:13 AM our mistake is to fail to realise that abuse the is the last refuge of a loser. That's you clamped then, Macfarlane as abuse seems to be one of your pet tactics. Loser, huh? It figures. |
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Subject: RE: pop music DOES all sound the same From: GUEST,999 Date: 10 Aug 12 - 11:29 AM Well, the Kodak moment is gone, that's fer shore. ############################## Notice the slope of this lady's breasts as she does a pop song from 1965. Turn your computer upside down to see the year 2005 and it's obvious that she has changed her singing style as well as her physiology. Couldn't be clearer. |
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Subject: RE: pop music DOES all sound the same From: GUEST,Stim Date: 10 Aug 12 - 11:48 AM A study of this kind would seem to require a much more comprehensive definition of variables than has been specified in the research model, and the conclusions therefore seem overbroad, and tend to be contradicted by information from other sources. Do you like that better? This research seems really to be more intended to showcase the current state of music information retrieval technology, and, rather than to actually answer questions, to suggest the avenues of research that may now be possible. As is sadly typical of scientific studies of all types, the press, aided and abetted by those with a musical axe to grind, has jumped to attention grabbing, and misleading conclusions. Incidentally, rather than being either an exercize in dismissing contemporary music or pointless "Who gives a shit" research, this technology is used at such places as Pandora, iTunes, etc to find other sorts of music that you might like, based on the recordings that you have listened to. |
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Subject: RE: pop music DOES all sound the same From: catspaw49 Date: 10 Aug 12 - 03:47 PM Macfarttle......... Abuse? Geeziz man.......Abuse? No.....See, abuse would be if I suggested your mother was a collie who ate shit and ran rabbits or that your balls were the size of buckshot pellets and your dick resembled a broken toothpick. I didn't do that fearing that it all might be true. I'm a nice guy.......ask anyone.............. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: pop music DOES all sound the same From: Mavis Enderby Date: 10 Aug 12 - 05:06 PM This is the first critical comment I've seen that might have some genuine scientific foundation. One of the surest ways to lie with statistics is in the choice of the dataset, or the criteria applied to it. D'you ever get the feeling your postings are invisible Foggers? |
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Subject: RE: pop music DOES all sound the same From: Phil Edwards Date: 10 Aug 12 - 06:01 PM the "folk music" of today is the music that most people know, not the music that people in folk clubs play Since I don't believe there's any such thing as "the folk music of today", I don't agree. As far as folk music's concerned, mechanical reproduction - starting with pianolas and ending with TV - changed everything, ISTM. |
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Subject: RE: pop music DOES all sound the same From: GUEST,Blandiver Date: 10 Aug 12 - 06:48 PM As far as folk music's concerned, mechanical reproduction - starting with pianolas and ending with TV - changed everything, ISTM. Musical experience is part & parcel of the available technology of any given culture; technology which is only an extension of the way we deal with information anyway. Folk remains a reactionary myth within the technological framework of the culture that creates it, or yearns for it. Without technology there would be no Folk; it only exists at all because it was perceived to exist and taxonomised via recording & reproduction. If the Old Trad Songs had been left in their natural habitat they would have died just as surely as the music of the Druids, the Ancient Egyptian Sun Priests or the Troubadours. In a very real way the old songs died too; they live on only an as technological echoes; as Ghosts in the Machine (even the Machine Molle). Meanwhile the Idioms & Traditions of a Myriad Human Musics continue apace, undaunted, evolving as never before, if only because Technology gives them the juice to do so. In terms of usage & experience 'the folk music of today' is right there, available to all at the flick of a switch or a touch of a button. It's whatever floats your boat & remains as relevant and as vibrant an aspect of human experience as it has done for 50,000 years. The technology of musical recording is now the technology of musical creation, just as surely as Conlan Nancarrow created his masterpieces on the piano roll. The important thing is not how music is played or reproduced or recorded. The important thing with music is how is it HEARD, which has always been, and will always be, via THE EAR and straight to THE HEART and THE SOUL. It is because of THE EAR that music exists at all. |
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Subject: RE: pop music DOES all sound the same From: GUEST,Stim Date: 11 Aug 12 - 01:31 PM Well, Phil, If you don't believe in the folk music of today, I guess you're not going to be that much fun at a party;-) Your comment about the pianola makes me laugh--though my inner "music wonk" compels me to point out that that it was far from the first mechanical musical device, the "music box" probably was(it was also probably the first programmable device). At any rate, my belief is that "folk music" and "folk songs" are that collection of words and melodies that someone in a community knows well enough to start, and have most of the rest in the group join in. These group of songs is not necessarily very coherent. I suspect that, even in the depths of the past, when our forebearers grunted Proto-Indo-European morphemes in caves there was the odd music hall tune. Such like the estimable Mr. Child collected specific sorts of things, such as ballads, which created among latter day revivalist an impression that there was time when people liked nothing better that to sit around and drone ballads to one another. However,I think people are people, then as now, and that after a few of the long ones, someone would sing a contemporary song, with a few bawdy verses thrown in, and the older ones would complain and go off to other other room and play cards, leaving the young ones to pair off for dancing to the temporal equivalent of "hip-hop", while someone said something to the effect that that wasn't real music. It is further my thought that in these times we tend not to sing together much because our present day world doesn't allow the sort of camaraderie that facilitates singing together. |
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Subject: RE: pop music DOES all sound the same From: Desert Dancer Date: 17 Sep 12 - 07:20 PM The Computer as Music Critic (NY Times, 16 Sept. 2012) from the researchers, excerpted... DID your parents tell you that today's music is getting poorer and too loud? Well, maybe they were right. But we will offer a different hypothesis: what if it is all about economy of resources? If today's music still satisfies listeners the same way pop music did 50 years before, then maybe its creators are simply better at crafting pleasing songs. ~ Becky in Tucson |
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Subject: RE: pop music DOES all sound the same From: GUEST,keberoxu Date: 01 Oct 19 - 06:40 PM Seven years on, and the reason I refreshed this thread, is this experience: I had a fairly lengthy drive today, relying on my car radio, where a whole lot of FM radio stations are programmed at the touch of the right combination of dashboard buttons. (No, I don't do Alexa. The heck with Alexa.) The FM stations where I live and drive, have their parameters. Some play more of the older stuff than anything else, and those stations make a living, so they have their audiences. Within the "pop music" category, and within what is fairly current now and not from earlier generations, I have noticed two distinct areas, covered by two types of stations/programmers. One is the corporate conglomerate mass media stuff. You know, the names that EVERYONE has heard of even if many of us never go out of our way to listen to the music; the celebrities of the pop music industry. The names change, the business remains the same. And the other category? "Alternative" is the term favored by writers who compare pop musics. These radio programmers/stations tend to be around universities and colleges. Today's "Alternative" could be Beck, could be Sleator-Kinney, many more names. Some have got big contracts with big companies; some work the student-concert circuit really hard and manage to break even, even though they are not household names. I spent the drive today switching back and forth between the two categories of stations. And ... yes, you can smell it coming ... it really DOES all sound the same. It did to me, anyhow. |
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Subject: RE: pop music DOES all sound the same From: leeneia Date: 02 Oct 19 - 12:51 AM Two weeks ago, I was staying at a hotel owned by a famous chain. I wanted to color in an adult coloring book and had to go to the computer center to find a table. (No desk in our room.) I listened to a lot of corporate pop while coloring, and I can assure you it was homogeneous to the max. The same kinds of voices, the same limited range. Melodies mostly stepwise. One pattern of percussion throughout each piece, the dull thuds produced by cheap music software. If this music were candy, it would be Milk Duds. I didn't understand one sentence of the lyrics all evening long. I don't understand why the hotel goes to such trouble to make high-class visuals (fine woodwork, nice carpets, fancy furniture), then fills the air with cheap, shrill, poor-white loser music. |
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Subject: RE: pop music DOES all sound the same From: Jim Carroll Date: 02 Oct 19 - 04:12 AM Of course all pop music sounds the same - amm music sounds the asme to the non initiated The difference with pop music is that, because its created as a commodity it's designed to sound the same until the manufacturers decide that sound has reached the end of its shelf life and decide to replace it with a "new sound" that will be put through the same process - ad infinitum Whatever the composers and musicians want to create or of capable of creating is immaterial - it won't become "pop" (popular) until it sounds as if it will sell to the marketers There ahre hiccups in this process - The Beatles created their own sound, which was then marketed as part of the 'Mersey Sound' and began to sounds a different 'same' Folk songs became 'the folk sound' and became indistinguishable frpm therest of the pap The same happened with jazz and Country and Western Look what happened to the "new raw sound" of punk (which I always detested) sanitised and marketed as a commodity The best of all music maintained it's identity and its uniqueness and survived apart from the machine, put the musical 'Big Brothers' always kept their beady eyes on it to see if there was any pelf to be got from it There - got that off my chest ! Jim Carrolll |
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Subject: RE: pop music DOES all sound the same From: Jim Carroll Date: 02 Oct 19 - 04:13 AM sorry 'bout the typos but I'm sure someone can make use of them Jim |
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Subject: RE: pop music DOES all sound the same From: punkfolkrocker Date: 02 Oct 19 - 09:59 AM Old dogs probably moan that all cats sound the same...??? Actually, I might agree with dogs on that one... |
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Subject: RE: pop music DOES all sound the same From: Jack Campin Date: 02 Oct 19 - 10:48 AM Of course all pop music sounds the same - amm music sounds the asme to the non initiated The difference with pop music is that, because its created as a commodity it's designed to sound the same No it wasn't created like that. Elvis and Roy Orbison had voices that were very different - much more different than any two male voices you could find on the British folk scene today. But you don't get that range of voice types today in pop, either. It took decades of evolution for that homogenization to happen. |
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Subject: RE: pop music DOES all sound the same From: punkfolkrocker Date: 02 Oct 19 - 10:57 AM btw... I don't listen to much 21st century music.. But this 'pop' track from 2016, which I first heard last week, is my most recent favourite.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjfspM5sDIA But.. hey.. It does sound the exact same as.. well.. ermmm.. King Houdini and His Calypso Parliament aka Wilmoth Houdini - "Bobby Sox Idol" circa 1947 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aB159Ac7sh0 So that proves it then.. all pop music is the same... |
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Subject: RE: pop music DOES all sound the same From: Jim Carroll Date: 02 Oct 19 - 11:08 AM "No it wasn't created like that. Elvis and Roy Orbison had voices that were very different " Another world, another set of values in my opinion Back then the words were far more prominent and distinguishable than they later became - the diction was far better I suppose it's all down to how deeply the subject interests you I have never been able to take pop songs seriously since the late fifties Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: pop music DOES all sound the same From: GUEST Date: 02 Oct 19 - 11:19 AM The reason is that the marketers control the music on the media. Reduced playlists, conformity to the dollar and the ignorance of the pop musicians to the history of music contribute. The late Fifties and early Sixties represented a shake up in the industry when the marketers didn't quite know their target audiences which allowed Dylan, PPandM and the KT to go up the charts. Then the rockers created something new and outside the bounds of conformity. Something similar happened in Country Music with Haggard, Nelson and the Outlaws. Every once in a while, the public gets to make a choice on what they want to hear other than the tastes of the pocketbook executives. Then, the marketers have to retool. Think of it as being a metaphor for the way our government is being run today. The majority of people have little choice in their representation. |
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Subject: RE: pop music DOES all sound the same From: Nick Date: 02 Oct 19 - 11:32 AM In a somewhat similar vein Has every song been written? And I like Rick Beato's take on music |
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Subject: RE: pop music DOES all sound the same From: Steve Shaw Date: 02 Oct 19 - 11:46 AM Last year I spent an hour and a half on a hot, cramped coach in Greece as we were transferred from airport to hotel. The bus driver played poor-quality recordings of Greek pop songs from his memory stick. The enervating atmosphere, combined with the chatter, the bus noise and the shrillness and thudding of the music (the only elements of it that were discernible) COULD have had me thinking that all Greek pop music was the same (and shite to boot)... Pop music on the radio is transmitted with extra compression so that loud and quiet bits are smoothed out. Great if you're in your car doing eighty with all that engine and road noise...a feeling of sameyness is thereby injected into the music. If I'm on the motorway, I find I can't listen to Penguin Eggs or Mozart piano sonatas on CD because the wide dynamic range means I either miss the quiet bits or turn the volume up extremely loud... For a number of years I've been editing pop music tracks on my laptop for a local dance teacher, generally by cutting bits out and splicing and blending bits together. I obviously have to listen very closely to the music in order to do that, often having to play passages over and over again to get it right. I've done several hundred songs like that by now. Many an earworm has been the upshot. Pop music hasn't been "my thing" since the Beatles split up but I'll tell you what: in terms of invention, imaginative arrangement, lyricism and production values, there's some bloody good stuff out there. And there's variety. Of course, being a woman of good taste and exceptional talent, the dance teacher has probably selected mostly "better" pop songs... You can have music, any music, playing in the background, but if you're not engaging with it there's the danger that it will rankle and "sound all the same." Engage with it and you're likely to discover that variety and nuance. There may be many common elements in pop music, but, as Dick Greenhaus said seven years ago, if there weren't it wouldn't be a genre. You still might not like it even if you do try to engage, but at least you opened your mind... I still haven't bought any Greek pop CDs and am unlikely to indulge. End of random musings.... |
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Subject: RE: pop music DOES all sound the same From: Mrrzy Date: 02 Oct 19 - 12:10 PM Everybody's talking 'bout (can't believe nobody said that yet) mmPop Muzik! |
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Subject: RE: pop music DOES all sound the same From: Bonzo3legs Date: 02 Oct 19 - 12:15 PM Many singers of so called "pop music" sound if something is being poked up their bums when singing - I suppose they need to compete with folk singers who bleat like goats of sheep!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Subject: RE: pop music DOES all sound the same From: GUEST,HiLo Date: 02 Oct 19 - 12:59 PM To suggest that all pop sounds the same is really a very narrow view...and a tone deaf one. Imogen Heap does' nt sound remotely like Natasha Kahn, nor does Natasha Kahn sound at all like Adele...yet they are all talented women and they all bring a great deal of passion and skill to their music. I believe that these artsts and many like them, would write and perform music regardless of the renumeration. We could make a list of pop icons and it would be easy to see that they do not all sound the same. If, by your own admission, you haven't listen to much of it since the fifties, I don't know how you can pass such sweeping judgement on a genre about which you know so little. I sometimes get the feeling that what people really don't like about pop is not its' sameness, but its success. |
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Subject: RE: pop music DOES all sound the same From: punkfolkrocker Date: 02 Oct 19 - 01:09 PM Some old folkies are even more intolerant about pop music than extremist evangelical vegans are about tasty hot meat pies... |
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Subject: RE: pop music DOES all sound the same From: Bill D Date: 02 Oct 19 - 01:32 PM As my daddy used to say, "It's the same... only diffrn't." To even discuss the idea, people need to clarify their personal, subjective concepts of what constitutes 'sameness'. After long, bickering debates, they will discover that it's kinda like my daddy said. SOME songs/music is very much the same in SOME aspects, and very different in others. I personally agree that far too many pop songs have far too many irritating similarities to suit me... most about topic, but also about coherence and repetition... and very often, volume. However, if pressed to listen to a moderate list and classify them, I 'could' find some differences. I might even... now & then... find one that is relatively interesting or vaguely pleasant. But I am simply not familiar enough with most 'pop' to bother sorting thru 100 to find 1 or 2. ... and because for the first few years of Mudcat, I used to debate fiercely that 'folk' and 'traditional' were not defined narrowly enough, I dare not even attempt to explain MY subjective categories in pop. |
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Subject: RE: pop music DOES all sound the same From: Jim Carroll Date: 02 Oct 19 - 01:38 PM "Some old folkies are even more intolerant about pop music" The only intolerance I can see here is from those who describe an effort to analyse and describe a music as 'intolerant' Do we have to accept everything without thinking or talking about it I can remember bitter battles with you and others about the importance of traditional song - does that make you "intolerant" ? Not liking a genre is not 'intolerant' it's personal taste "Old Folkies" and "extremist evalangical vegans" doesn't strike me as particularly tolerant Look to thyself before you start casting your stones boyo On observation, Pops songs are not there to be listened to anyway - those played as muzak, as many are, are talked over and whenever I've been unfortunate enough to be at a live session, shouted over, even by those who are there for the music I've often wondered what would happen if someone adopted the folk club "shhhhhh, we're trying to listen" Can't see Metalica fans being too pleased Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: pop music DOES all sound the same From: Jim Carroll Date: 02 Oct 19 - 01:54 PM Forgot to add Aren't people who worry what others think of their music being a little insecure ? |
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Subject: RE: pop music DOES all sound the same From: punkfolkrocker Date: 02 Oct 19 - 02:21 PM Jim - it's a meat pie duel at dawn then... Now "Ernie" was a proper chart topping pop hit... |
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Subject: RE: pop music DOES all sound the same From: Jim Carroll Date: 02 Oct 19 - 02:47 PM "Jim - it's a meat pie duel at dawn then..." Sorry - I'm an "extremist evangelical vegan" - remember ! Now if you'd suggested sticks of celery you'd have been walking with bow legs for weeks Jim |
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Subject: RE: pop music DOES all sound the same From: Jack Campin Date: 02 Oct 19 - 03:00 PM My answer to Steve's Greek bus experience was being on a long bus ride in Croatia. That was the first time I heard Dolly Parton's "Jolene". Which (a) didn't sound stereotypical in any way and (b) had every word crystal-clear, even on a bus's sound system. This is a trend we're talking about, not a universal. |
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Subject: RE: pop music DOES all sound the same From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch Date: 02 Oct 19 - 03:06 PM Producer-package-consumer. Are you a pop music consumer? They are typically female, c.13-24yrs. If you were not born in the present century, you are likely not a pop music consumer. If you prefer AM-FM radio or piped in muzak over mobile phone and ear buds, you are likely not a pop music consumer. If you feel Shawn Mendes & Camila Cabello (Señorita) look or sound like Lil Nas X* & Billy Ray Cyrus (Old Town Road,) you are likely not a pop music consumer. The consumer, not the producer, decides what product succeeds in the marketplace. If you believe you can predict or control the emotions of a million+ teenage girls, you are a special kind of delusional. *Not to be confused with NAS & Nick Cannon, aka: Shuck & Jive (Eat Dat Watermelon.) |
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Subject: RE: pop music DOES all sound the same From: keberoxu Date: 02 Oct 19 - 03:10 PM I'm delighted to see some dust getting kicked up on this question, whether or not the opinions are like my opinion. |
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Subject: RE: pop music DOES all sound the same From: GUEST,Starship Date: 02 Oct 19 - 04:02 PM I think it was Kendall Morse who said something along the lines of "All Indians walk in single file. I know that because just yesterday I saw an Indian and s/he was walking in single file." |
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Subject: RE: pop music DOES all sound the same From: GUEST,HiLO Date: 02 Oct 19 - 05:43 PM Well, they are not predominately teenage girls. the most successful ohas always been driven by boys and men in the 18/24 age bracket. heavy metal, punk ,rap, and goth are almost exclusively male driven. the current crop of female pop stars, Taylor Swift,Adele and so on, are a great sign that pop is now celebrating more and more female pop stars And,as I said, they are passionate, talented and successful....and they are not all the same. their “sin” , seems to be that they make money..they also make music which will be the” folk” of their generation. give credit where it is due...please. |
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Subject: RE: pop music DOES all sound the same From: Steve Shaw Date: 02 Oct 19 - 06:12 PM Well said. What I think is that you don't have to diss it if you don't like it. As for the money side of things, well a great conductor of Wagner, a composer I hate to pieces, can make enough dough from a few night's' gigs to buy my house. A player for the greatest team in footballing history, Liverpool FC (argue and you might get "a visit..."), can make enough money in one week that would allow me, my brother and my sister to retire in luxury for life. It's called CAPITALISM. You can think of plenty more examples. So it's invidious to single out pop music for its cynical money-making. Of course it's like that. But that's the world we've acquiesced in, unless we're lifelong rabid Marxists who've eschewed all modern conveniences and still shit in pit latrines and ride donkeys into town. Ps. Try "Symphony" by Clean Bandit... |
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Subject: RE: pop music DOES all sound the same From: Steve Shaw Date: 02 Oct 19 - 06:32 PM "I might even... now & then... find one that is relatively interesting or vaguely pleasant. But I am simply not familiar enough with most 'pop' to bother sorting thru 100 to find 1 or 2." Well same here, Bill, but, as I was saying, I was obliged to "sort through" hundreds via signing up to help that dance teacher. And it was an eye-opener. I won't be investing in pop CDs any time soon (though my copies of Beatles and Queen albums, along with the odd Dolly Parton, Abba and Mamas and Papas compilations, enjoy a permanent and treasured presence in my glove box...), though I did find that, among the dross, there is much that is genuinely original, well-wrought and beautifully produced. It's just that you don't have to like it... |
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Subject: RE: pop music DOES all sound the same From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch Date: 03 Oct 19 - 11:40 AM ...heavy metal, punk ,rap, and goth... &c consumers would not self identify as pop music consumers. Each of these genre market rebelling, to one extent or another, against pop culture as part of their cache. If you're in the business of producing pop music you'll know who you're target demographic is. It hasn't changed since the beginning. Doesn't mean they're all evil, or bad people. They're just consumers like everybody else. |
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Subject: RE: pop music DOES all sound the same From: JHW Date: 03 Oct 19 - 12:08 PM I'd agree with 'I don't need graphs to tell me that the pop music I hear in public places lacks melody and other forms of musical interest.' I've wondered something else as I am fed such background music today (7 years later than that post). Can today's kids all read the dots? I assume they must be able to or how could they sing song after song with no discernable melody. |
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Subject: RE: pop music DOES all sound the same From: Richard Mellish Date: 03 Oct 19 - 12:10 PM My experience of pop music is almost exclusively what is inflicted on me when I am shopping. Sometimes it drives me straight back out of the shop and makes me wonder why they seem happy to drive potential customers away. (I know, most of their target customers are oblivious to the "music" and some of them apparently can't bear silence.) There is a strong beat provided by percussion, a very simple rhythm, hardly any melody, and about a dozen words sung umpteen times over. I understand that the production of such "music" usually starts with a "rhythm track" to which other layers are added. I understand from hearsay that not all pop music is like that. I also understand that the many sub-genres really do have differences, but what I encounter and try to avoid mostly sounds much the same. |
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Subject: RE: pop music DOES all sound the same From: Jim Carroll Date: 03 Oct 19 - 12:26 PM "What I think is that you don't have to diss it if you don't like it." No you don't, but it's not helped by the fact that it's becoming impossible to avoid it My experiences in shops are the same as Richard's - you're left feeling that you have to send scouts ahead to find out how loud the music is on the PA systems (pretty much as you do to find if an unfamiliar folk club actually does folk song) I walk out once and never go back - doesn't suit me and can't suit the shop - surely The only thing that makes me angry is the ***** volume - pumped up over the point of distortion, more often than not We have three traditional sessions in our small town on Saturday night - all catering for a different crowd in regular venues right in the centre of the town is a disco venue - fine by me, except the volume is so high sometimes that it can be heard in the other three bars - a little 'impossible' for our best solo players I've given up worrying about the damage being done to they youngsters' hearing - their choice, I'm afraid 'Pump up the volume' merchants should by locked in small, soundproofed cells and overdosed on their own medicine Jim Carroll |
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