Irish but Not Scottish Sessions. Why?

Subject: RE: Irish but Not Scottish Sessions. Why?
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 14 Nov 24 - 08:15 PM

Not sure where “over a dozen Scottish programmes” comes from,

I wasn't judging the folkiness, just going by what the bbc listed on their 'folk' page. (link above)

Music Planet(world music mainly) (r3)
The Folk Show With Mark Radcliffe (r2)
Tim Walker's Folk (Lincolnshire)

Ambell i Gân (Cymru)
Celtic Heartbeat (Wales)
Georgia Ruth (Cymru)

* Blas Ceoil - (Radio Ulster)
Folk Club with Neil Martin (Ulster)
Trad Ar Fad! (Ulster)

A' Mire ri Mòir (Nan Gàidheal)
Caithream Ciùil (Nan Gàidhea)
Catgut and Ivory (Scotland)
Claire and Friends (Scotland\Shetland)
Crùnluath (Nan Gàidheal)
Fae Hameaboot (Scotland)
Iain Anderson (Scotland)
Oota Da Cans (winter only) (Scotland)
Orkney Folk Music with Jennifer Wrigley (Scotland\Orkney)
Orkney Irish Country \What's the Craic with Colin Kirkness (Scotland\Orkney)
Orkney Scottish Dance Music with Liam Muir\Dashing White Farmer (Scotland\Orkney)
Pipeline \Pipes and Drums (Scotland)
The Piping Season (Scotland)
Piping Sounds (Scotland)
Roddy Hart (Scotland)
Saltfish Sessions (Scotland\Orkney)
Take the Floor - Gary Innes (Scotland)
Tiompan (Nan Gàidheal)
Travelling Folk (Scotland)

Subject: RE: Irish but Not Scottish Sessions. Why?
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 15 Nov 24 - 06:09 AM

I've always thought the main point of the 'limited' DG (diatonic) melodeon is the built in rhythm section it provides- great for dancing, not that I do much of that.
   'English' and Scottish music tend to use much more staccato rhythms (the Scotch snap etc) and the melodeon provides this in spades. The piano box is now the norm in Scotland- some folk seem able to have a technique to replace some of its lost rhythm capability, & it's done mainly by drums & bass. The DG melodeon is dominant in England of course but the semitone tuning favoured in Ireland suits the much more ornate & flowing nature of Irish dance music.
    Attempting to 'smooth out' the DG melodeon for playing reels by crossing rows is OK- I do it myself, but also reduces its innate rhythm. I grew up with Irish music & did try the BC Paolo for a while but not for me as a singer too.
    As for the bass buttons on two-row diatonic boxes, I watched fascinated as Tim Lyons played his BC box & tapped the totally unrelated bass buttons as well as the melody side. I asked him what he was doing with it &he said 'jaze I dunno, I look the other way'
   another rated Irish box player did similar & said 'ah but it's only percussion anyway'    nufsed

Subject: RE: Irish but Not Scottish Sessions. Why?
From: Johnny J
Date: 15 Nov 24 - 06:26 AM

Freddy,

That is a good list list of programmes but spread over more than one radio station.
Some of these e.g.
The Orkney and Shetland programmes are only broadcast regionally on their own local BBC radio or Radio Scotland in that particular area.

Some of the programmes are on Nan Gàidheal which is available on FM and DAB but not AM in most areas.

Of course, it's easy to listen live or again on BBC Sounds these days but not everyone finds it that convenient. Casual listeners won't always bother and will just listen to whatever hapepns to be on at the time.

Having said all that, your point about Scotland being well served compared to other parts of The UK is valid. Also, there's nothing to stop the rest of The UK, Ireland, and beyond from checking out these programmes either and enjoying our Scottish music.

Subject: RE: Irish but Not Scottish Sessions. Why?
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 15 Nov 24 - 10:10 AM

“Nufsed” - er, no!
I play BC accordion and DO put chords in as and when I can: not randomly punching or flapping at the basses, but chords which match the melody. So I can offer you the “three chord trick” for tunes in a number of keys - C, G, D and A majors. For minors, I just pull out the stop that takes the middle third out of the chord, which allows some left hand accompaniment in Am, Em, Dm and mixolydian mode in those keys too.
When I was first learning, I asked my tutor, “When can I start playing the basses and chords?”
“Oh”, he said, “That comes much later”.
“How much later?” sez I.
“About 5 years” sez he.
Somewhat despondent was I, but he was quite right. I worked at it,
and proved that it is very possible to play chords and basses on a B/C.

Subject: RE: Irish but Not Scottish Sessions. Why?
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 15 Nov 24 - 12:30 PM

Yes it's possible to do it, I agree but why, when the Irish seem to manage very well with very limited bass use or none at all?
Also, as a singer, I've always found the existing DG box very satisfactory, while I found the BC arrangement almost impossible to sing with -
There aren't that many British DG players who sing WITH the box but I've never found even one who accompanies his/her own singing with a BC box in Ireland- it is not a natural combination, I think?
So it's what you need really & personal preference as usual?

Subject: RE: Irish but Not Scottish Sessions. Why?
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 15 Nov 24 - 01:55 PM

There are a few accordion players around who are also very fine singers, Conor Connolly springs to mind and the late John Lyons was another one. I would say their choice to not accompany themselves is not one driven by practicalities but an aesthetic one. Same goes for concertinsayers, pipers, fiddleplayers even. They could if they wanted to but they don't.

Subject: RE: Irish but Not Scottish Sessions. Why?
From: GUEST,Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Nov 24 - 04:04 PM

The record that most got me into Irish music was Jackie Daly's Music From Sliabh Luachra Vol 6. If you want to know what's doable with the button accordeon bass buttons, have a listen.

Subject: RE: Irish but Not Scottish Sessions. Why?
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 15 Nov 24 - 06:17 PM

One of Jackie's standard stories is how Joe Burke complained to him 'Jackie, Jackie, my bass is not working, it is broken, what am I to do'. To which Jackie replied 'Well, Joe, you can use the other ones...'

Subject: RE: Irish but Not Scottish Sessions. Why?
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 15 Nov 24 - 07:01 PM

Well, I must be unnatural then, as I do sometimes sing and accompany myself on the B/C. As for aesthetic reasons, yes, the box is pretty loud and in a session it would be very easy to drown your singing out by playing too loudly. So I would tend to just play a few chords and let the voice supply the melody while singing the verses, and then bring the right hand in for any choruses or instrumental breaks. My favourite keys for singing, depending on the range and register of the song are D, G or A, all of which work fine with a B/C.

Subject: RE: Irish but Not Scottish Sessions. Why?
From: GUEST,Howard Jones
Date: 16 Nov 24 - 10:07 AM

Talking of which, cam anyone explain to me why a lot of Irish concertina players choose a C/G when a G/D does the job without using the accidentsls?

Quite simply, this was because C/G was by far the most common for anglo concertinas. Older players played up and down the rows, and because it was mainly played in the home it didn't matter that they couldn't join in with other instruments. Then the modern cross-row style was developed to play in the fiddle keys. This forces the ornamentation to be played in a certain way. Whilst it might be easier to play the tunes on a G/D, critics say that the essence of the style is then lost. Despite the now wider availability of instruments in other keys, the Irish style is built around the C/G.

Subject: RE: Irish but Not Scottish Sessions. Why?
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 16 Nov 24 - 10:25 AM

I haven't been playing concertina very long but I find playing across the rows easier than playing up and down them. You do lose some of the ability to harmonise but I think of the instrument as a melodic one and would leave that to the guitarists anyway.