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BS: Bush's speech
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: Jack the Sailor Date: 21 Sep 01 - 02:18 AM I don't know if the proper Mudcat term is "Flamer or Trool" but DougR has been nothing but a shit disturber (my term) this whole thread. Doug, you smartass, my point was that if Bush is not carefull then one of us will probably end up being hijacked. I want JUSTICE for CRIME. An international trial at the Hague would do nicely. We could ask the Meccans to use their influence at the head of Islam to demonstate their outrage by declaring a jihad against bin Laden for the blasphemies against Islam about which Mr. Bush so eloquently spoke. If that doesn't work, then use the bombers. Korea was a war. The United States Government called it a "Police Action" It did not work out well. Vietnam was a war which was not officially called a war. This "war" should be a police action. Justice Doug, Justice. To all of you who want to discuss this rationally I just want to say that I think this will work out OK. I hope this will work out OK. I Pray this will work out OK. I realize that Mr. Bush felt he had to say war to get his $40,000,000 from Congress. I realize that the majority of the American people are impatient for revenge and that cooler heads in Washington must appease them with tough words and still may actually seek justice. But folks, the stakes are so high. I'm scared, really scared. I was looking for some comfort and was blindsided by Doug's trolling. In retrospect, I should have expected trolling and looked elsewhere. Again I say, for the sake of the whole world George, be careful. PS With all due respect Guest,Karen please read or reread my second post. If you can't understand my fears from what I have said there. All I can say is that when one talks of justice one talks of arrest and trial. Mr. Bush's speech is making this into vengance or war. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: DougR Date: 21 Sep 01 - 02:22 AM Nah, Carol, I know you are an honest person and if you say so, I believe you. I don't believe I ever implied that everything that Republicans did was poifect, Guest. But whatever I may have said in the last three years on the Mudcat, I damn well used my real name when I said it. Kendall, you disappoint me. (I'm sure that will cause you a sleepless night). Everyone here knows I had no use for Clinton, but when he delivered a keynote speech, I never failed to listen to him, and he made some damn good ones. I didn't start this thread because I expected the majority of Mudcatters to voice approval for Bush. I just kind of wondered how far you folks would go to show your liberal fairness, based on the fact that everybody else interviewed on TV after the speech, including leading Democrats, thought he did a damn good job. I'm not at all surprised. About what I expected. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: Jack the Sailor Date: 21 Sep 01 - 02:24 AM Excuse me $40,000,000,000 of course. It is hard to think in terms of numbers so huge. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: bseed(charleskratz) Date: 21 Sep 01 - 02:25 AM I didn't see the speech, but I heard the last ten minutes or so on the car radio driving home from work. I missed the most outrageous things he said, I guess, judging from what bothered many previous posters. I thought the ending of the speech was reasonable, more reasonable than I had expected. But I thought his presentation, which featured regular emphasis on inappropriate words, showed that at best he's not much of a speaker and at worst that he might not have understood all that was written for him. --seed |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: Joe Offer Date: 21 Sep 01 - 02:28 AM A situation like this makes me ask some hard questions about my stance as a pacifist. Nonetheless, I think this world needs people who will stand firm in support of nonviolent solutions to the problems of the world. I was happy that Bush made a distinction between the terrorists and ordinary, peaceful Muslims. Still, I'm very much afraid of what's going to happen in the next few months. I hope it ends soon, and I hope against hope that it will end peacefully. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: Jack the Sailor Date: 21 Sep 01 - 02:45 AM DougR: In your last post you admit that you were trolling. Here:.... I didn't start this thread because I expected the majority of Mudcatters to voice approval for Bush. I just kind of wondered how far you folks would go to show your liberal fairness, based on the fact that everybody else interviewed on TV after the speech, including leading Democrats, thought he did a damn good job. I'm not at all surprised. About what I expected. You wasted my time you smug ************************* I have wasted enough time on you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: Amos Date: 21 Sep 01 - 02:50 AM I share your hope, Joe. In my "realist mode", I have to say I don't think peaceful or soon will be the case. In my heart I hope for the intervention of some remarkable development. If I were the Taliban right now I would be making a list, and checking it twice, and planning a roundup. But, of course, I am not. Well, you knew that, too, I guess. G'night. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: Peter Kasin Date: 21 Sep 01 - 03:03 AM It was one of the best presidential speeches I've ever heard. A great speech. He touched all bases, was eloquent, firm, humane, confident. It was a complete turnaround from the Bush who often speaks haltingly. For me, he said all the right things, and said them far better than I imagined he would. DougR is no "shit-stirrer"! This was an extremely important speech to the nation and Doug asked what we thought of it. -chanteyranger |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: Mudlark Date: 21 Sep 01 - 03:36 AM I've just finished listening to the rerun of the speech in its entirety and I admit to being pleasantly surprised by the less furtive and more direct delivery....that alone is a relief. I think it will go down in time to come as a very well written.... speech--just that, with actions as yet to be determined and assessed. The actions described in this speech to be taken on the home front all seem reasonable and well thought out. However, the words regarding international action do cause me concern. The inherent "us or them, yer w/us or agin us" thinking is, to me, both simplistic and frightening.
Allie asks: " What is a fundamentalist? what produces a terrorist is what we should be asking." A more important question to me is what produces a fundamentalist? It is a question I've not ever been able to satisfy for myself...and fundamentalists of all stripe, in all religions, in all countries including the US, scare the living daylights out of me, I guess because to me they seem to have left rationality behind...it's like dealing with a crazy person. And I can't help but worry that pacific rationality may not be effective in the face of such craziness, whether it be bombing family planning clinics with nail-filled bombs, or blowing up buildings. In terms of the WWIII scenarios and worries, I thot the most reassuring ...words...were Bush's expectations that soon all our lives will go back to relative normal, to the point that he felt it necessary remind us we must maintain our vigalence and resolve. We'll see what actions come. Kendall...if I'd had a chance to hang out and play with Gordon Bok I'd have forgotten all about this speech too....I've never been a big fan of speeches anyway, but playing and singing, especially when the solace is so needed...now that IS a treasure. Nancy |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: BlueJay Date: 21 Sep 01 - 03:47 AM Jack the Sailor- Sorry, but I disagree with your accusations of DougR being a flamer on this thread. He's expressing his opinion, and most of his posts on this thread are good naturedly, (is that a word)? humorous in tone. I don't think his posts on this thread qualify as flaming. If they are, then opposing viewpoints are equally guilty. If your accusation is related to previous threads, then it doesn't belong here. BTW, I more agree with you regarding the speech. I was more scared than inspired. We should all be scared shitless. I'm afraid that Shrub, Jr. is promising way more than our American society can deliver without leading to financial disaster and further loss of civil liberties. But DougR didn't do anything wrong here, IMO. I usually disagree with him politically, and I admit I don't often argue with him, as I suspect you have. But I do value his perspective. Helps me keep things in order. Does that make me a flamer, too? Thanks, BlueJay |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: Lepus Rex Date: 21 Sep 01 - 03:48 AM I agree. Doug's not a flamer. He's just wrong all the time. :) ---Lepus Rex |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: allie kiwi Date: 21 Sep 01 - 04:58 AM This thread has opened a few issues for me that I find interesting. Troll, thanks for running over the middle east/Israel issues for me. *sigh* It is a total no win situation, the whole world around, isn't it? Being so big means everything you do and don't do is so noticable - you help someone and it becomes 'interference', you dont help and you are 'ignoring the plight of innocents'. I guess what I was thinking more of was the economic sanctions - eg against Iraq after the Gulf war. someone up in this thread (sorry, cant remember who) mentioned about how Bin Laden is a millionare. That partly is my point. Economic sanctions will not effect the people we want to punish. Like Bin Laden, and S. Hussein. It is the ordinary citizens that suffer and go hungry and die for want of medical supplies. And that only adds fuel to the fire of the polititians on the 'other side'. i cannot see war doing anything except make the new upcoming generations of Afghanistan etc angry at the USA and allies. They may not remember the WTC attacks, but they will remember attacks on their own soil. Thanks Nancy, I too find fundmentalism strange and frightening, of all denominations. Sorry, this post is probably a little pointless. I sit here with a swollen lip after having been head butted by The Toad. Could someone try and outlaw toddlers for me? Allie |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: harpgirl Date: 21 Sep 01 - 05:10 AM I too, thought the speech was well written. However, I believe it is unlikely that George crafted any of it himself except maybe for the bombastic parts. I do give him credit for practicing his delivery, as well. But the poor man was never the people's choice to begin with and he knows it. I suspect that the fact that it was widely well received is fortunate, because this did seem to help him believe that he must act presidential even if he is a pretender. If he plays the role well, as a result of listening to a broad range of thought and research as the speech seemed to demonstrate, he might not lead us into a huge holy war. Muslims outnumber Christians, though. And psychopathic despots have been hiding their true intentions under the guise of religious belief for a very long time. Ultimately, I believe US direction will reflect what is good for us economically and psychologically as a nation. I am not afraid that recent events will touch of a global war, just more senseless destruction of innocent human beings. As for Doug, shame on those of you who would deny him the right to his freely articulated opinion. That's what we are supposed to be defending. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: Gervase Date: 21 Sep 01 - 07:00 AM After listening to Dubbya's speech lauded to the rafters by commentators this morning as the most statesmanlike speech ever by a US president, I'm baffled. To me it sounded like a collection of cheap-jack soundbites cobbled together by a Madison Avenue hack, designed to evoke suitable resonances of Churchill, Lincoln and Roosevelt but sounding flat, woolly and almost Blair-like in its vacuity. Even the delivery seemed to me to be as statesmanlike as a "speak your weight" machine. And to ask countries "are you with us or against us" is pointless rhetoric. Look at poor Pervez Musharraf in Pakistan. He has probably signed his own death warrant by agreeing to support US action in a limited way, so plenty of other national leaders can probably be forgiven for equivocating there. And across the world there can be countries avowedly against terrorism, but also against the sort of action that results in 30,000 deaths in Nicaragua, or the reign of terror in Chile, or the arrest of Nelson Mandela, or the refusal to extradite an IRA bomber. Grrr. Better lay in plenty of tins of Spam and batteries! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: InOBU Date: 21 Sep 01 - 07:09 AM I will share with you my letter to my bandmates... which is my reaction to the speach. Concider it an invitation to New York musicians as I expect to have a much smaller band today, perhaps one person unaccompanied on the stage. Join Joe and I, praying for peace. - Larry
Last night the president made a speach which hinted at limitations of freedom and described the US entering a world war. We are entering a time which may make the McCarthy era seem like a time of liberty. Some of us believe we will need to respond to this with art which preserves the ideals of liberty. Some will respond by keeping their heads down. You know the songs I write, they are thoughtful responces to our times. I have been writing to band members for days now, proposing that, for example we use art to help wounded firemen who have done so much for us, and I have gotten no responce. Pissing into the wind. Now may be a good time to ask if you wish to keep your heads down on stand on the front line of liberty. I am asking do you wish to use art to help heal a world going to tear itself appart with war, a world where the basic freedom that Americans have lived for and died for for centuries is being offered up without question? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: GUEST,bubble buster Date: 21 Sep 01 - 07:27 AM Hey Harpgirl, You are only partially correct in saying that Bush is not the people's choice. However, he was the choice of the people who know how to punch an election ballot correctly. And of course he appeared a bit macho, when was the last timne you met a Texan who wasn't? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: GUEST,just a nobody Date: 21 Sep 01 - 08:33 AM Thanks for starting the thread DougR.... I watched the speech. I thought he did a great job. His writers did a wonderful job to help him articulate what he wanted to get across and he did a damn good delivery. Did the speech get me nervous... hell yeah. I don't think anyone in their right mind wouldn't be nervous. We have drawn a line in the sand. Our Mililtary is mobilized, our demands made clearly with no room for interpritation. I was always wondering though, how would we keep groups from Ireland and England from falling under these catagories. I don't think Great Britain would be overlyjoyed to see our ships surrounding them. I liked the term "global reach" it did let people get an idea of what sort of groups we were going for. Bush touched on many topics that people have asked questions to on Mudcat... I hope that those that despise the republicans, hate bush, think he cheated his way into the whitehouse, Whatever negative feelings you have, can at least comb through the speech and pull from it a little more enlightenment about the situation we are in. Bush is not approaching this in a Ronold Rayguns kinda way. He acknowledges that the people are frightened, but asks that we be resolute. Asks that we stand and back our military. I think a good point that was made, Where I have seen so many say that Bin ladin wants this war. I tend to agree that he does not. In Bush's speech, the comment made that we do not need to isolate ourselves, to close ourselves off. When we do that then we have turned our backs on others, that do want our help, and then we would leave them in the mercy of groups like the Talbin and Bin Ladin. My question is, What would you prefer? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: GUEST,Stanley Wyatt, Baltimore Date: 21 Sep 01 - 09:37 AM I've been reading through these comments and in other thread topics pertaining to the terrorist massacre of September 11th. I lost a cousin and two friends in the WTC and my bitterness from reading these threads makes me wish it was Lepus Rex who was murdered by the terrorists instead of my cousin Andy Wilkie and my friends Jeff Hardy and Susan Russell. I have never been a fan of George W. Bush. In the 2000 election, I was a campaign worker for Ralph Nader. But last night, when President Bush spoke, he spoke for me. Stanley Wyatt Baltimore, MD |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: Jack the Sailor Date: 21 Sep 01 - 09:49 AM I honestly do not know your definition of trolling. DougR in effect said that the only reason he started the thread was so that he could bait what he calls "liberals" Yes it is his right to express his opinions. But is it right for him to ask for mine so that he can ridicule it? That comes pretty close to some of the definitions of trolling which I have read here. I answered him in good faith expecting that he was actually asking my opinion. I was wrong. I will know better the next time. I'll probably just start my own thread as is my right. DougR in answer to your question. George made one of the best political speeches I have heard in my life. And I am old enough to have heard some good ones. He was well prepared, confident and articulate. For that you should be proud of him. I am still afraid. Why did he have to lie about the reasons for the attack. Who in the world is naive enough to believe that 19 ment would kill themselves because they are jealous of freedom and democracy? It harkens back to Regan's "Evil Empire" speech. America, this kind of talk make other countries worry about the sanity of the person saying it. BTW the way DougR from what I have read of your previous posts, I believe that I am more politically conservative than you. But being Canadian, my definition of liberal is not "one who dissagrees with Republicans."
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: Kim C Date: 21 Sep 01 - 10:55 AM Some of you have already made up your minds about W and will never be swayed no matter what he does. I thought it was a good speech. A little frightening, yes, but frightening times call for frightening measures. Allie, last year we gave Afghanistan several million dollars' worth of humanitarian aid. Whether that aid ever got past the Taliban is anyone's guess. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: Tedham Porterhouse Date: 21 Sep 01 - 10:56 AM No country in the world has provided more aid to Afghanistan than the U.S.A. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: Troll Date: 21 Sep 01 - 11:12 AM Jack the Sailor, have you read bin Ladens Fatwa? If not, please do so. troll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: DougR Date: 21 Sep 01 - 01:14 PM Jack the Sailor, I regret that you viewed my post as trolling or flaming, but that's certainly your right. I do, at times, overlook the fact that the terms, "conservative" and "liberal," mean different things in other countries. I should keep that in mind because the Mudcat world is not just composed of Americans. I have not seen such a demonstration of bi-partisan support in America since WWII. I regret that we just don't seem to be able to accomplish the same feeling of solidarity on the Mudcat. I guess it's just not to be though. Thanks to all of you for posting your thoughts. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: DougR Date: 21 Sep 01 - 01:22 PM Jack the Sailor, I regret that you viewed my post as trolling or flaming, but that's certainly your right. I do, at times, overlook the fact that the terms, "conservative" and "liberal," mean different things in other countries. I should keep that in mind because the Mudcat world is not just composed of Americans. I have not seen such a demonstration of bi-partisan support in America since WWII. I regret that we just don't seem to be able to accomplish the same feeling of solidarity on the Mudcat. I guess it's just not to be though. Guest Stanley: I am sorry you lost your cousin and two friends in the WTC. I think you may have posted in anger because of that loss, and perhaps under the same circumstances, I might have reacted as you did. Lepus has been a member of the Mudcat for quite a spell, and as he noted, we rarely if ever agree. I certainly would not have wanted him to be a casualty of the WTC though. That's pretty tough statement you made, I think. Thanks to all of you for posting your thoughts. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: DougR Date: 21 Sep 01 - 01:25 PM Sorry for the double post. I failed to reply to the Dr. in original post. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: Troll Date: 21 Sep 01 - 01:26 PM Doug! ENOUGH already! troll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: GUEST Date: 21 Sep 01 - 01:33 PM Whoopie! He's gonna wipe out "Terra"! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: harpgirl Date: 21 Sep 01 - 01:41 PM Hey bubble butt! I assume you mean both male and female Texans are macho! While I'm thinking in this vein did it ever occur to anybody that the Taliban does not represent Afghani women? Would they condone the atrocities in New York City and Washington if they were truly free to say what they think? Would any truly Muslim woman condone such a bloodbath? We should defeat the Taliban in the interest of freeing Afghani women! The terrorists were also all men I noticed! And while I'm talking I might add that the most aggresive and in your face posters on this forum are men...harpgirl |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: GUEST,Bubble Buster Date: 21 Sep 01 - 02:06 PM Actually, Harpgirl, I was referring to male Texans as macho. That's because Texgirls, like all southern flowers, are too feminine to be macho, and they don't need to worry their pretty little minds about things like war. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: GUEST,Melani Date: 21 Sep 01 - 02:14 PM The speech wasn't as bad as I had feared. I was more interested in content than delivery, and it was a lot more balanced and sane than I had expected, though the characterization of the terrorists as hating freedom is a bunch of crap. That reference was designed to get Americans all fired up with patriotism, which will be necessary to get everyone behind a "war effort." Either these guys are religious fanatics that want to force their brand of Islam on the world, or they are angry over the U.S. support of Israel, sanctions on Iraq, etc., or maybe both, but I'm sure they don't give a flying you-know-what about our Constitution or national ideals. I agree that we may be balanced on the edge of WWIII. It will take some careful handling to avoid it, and I sure hope Colin Powell and Dick Cheney are up to it. If Dubya can become a decent speechmaking figurehead, that will be about the best I expect from him, and so far it looks good. I don't understand why you guys are always on about "trolling." You seem to be defining that term as expressing any opinion that somebody else is likely to disagree with. It is clear DougR and I have very different views, but I have never known him to be nasty about it, unlike, say, MAV or X-Ed. I personally have no problem with reasonably polite arguments--it gets really boring if we all agree. "Flaming" as I understand it, is being really nasty and calling people names. I have not seen anybody do that in this thread. Sometimes it seems that people are afraid of arguing, but I think that it's really possible to do that without getting nasty. A certain amount of passion adds spice, as long as it's not personal. I am still very reluctant to wave a flag; I am still afraid of mindless "patriotism." I am very much afraid that civil liberties may go down the tubes with a rush if we don't guard against it. We must be careful to make a distinction between actions that must be taken for security's sake and harrassment and profiling. I stopped into a fabric store last night and found that every scrap of red, white or blue ribbon had been sold, as well as every bit of American flag-patterned fabric, no matter how stupid-looking. I bought some rainbow ribbon for myself.
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: Amos Date: 21 Sep 01 - 02:17 PM Bubblebutt, your ass is grass, and harpgirl is a lawn mower!!! Harpgirl, I think you raise an excellent point. We have condemned the Taliban regime openly in the President's speech, among other things for the very abuses you are thinking of -- the brutality toward women, the arbitrary denial of civil freedoms, the repression of speech, not to mention the phsyical abuses. But we are not ordering them to reform their government. We are focusing here on terrorism. Since their protection of terrorists and their abuse of women are both rolled up in their minds with confused ideas about who Allah is and what wants, the two issues may unroll together, resulting in the Taliban and their radical ilk being ejected both by our saber-rattling and internal revolt led by outraged citizens. Wouldn't THAT be a step forward in a difficult time? (A burly, hard-hatted redneck leaps into the middle of the post waving a Scotch plaid colored thermos bottle and raising his middle finger in the general direction of the assembled clerics of Afganistan. He yells loudly in a distinctly Brooklyn accent: "Allah THIS, motherfuckers!!!".)
Honest, I get so sick of these stupid dramatizations pretending to speak from Infinity, when actually speaking from the dark places in the human anatomy.... A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: Gary T Date: 21 Sep 01 - 02:50 PM BlueJay, "trolling" and "flaming" are not the same thing. Flaming, as Melani mentioned, typically uses scathing and incendiary language. I haven't seen any in this thread. Trolling is typically throwing out a provocative message (the bait) in the hopes that some people (the fish) will rise to it with emotionally charged responses. I haven't seen that in this thread either. Jack the Sailor, DougR's post does not constitute a troll. He was not trying to get people to make fools of themselves debating a loaded question. He was interested in your opinion, although not for the reason you might have hoped. DougR, I think you'll find that the "MD" in "Stanley Wyatt Baltimore, MD" stands for Maryland, not for Medical Doctor. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: harpgirl Date: 21 Sep 01 - 03:04 PM ...bubblebutt, dahling! You must be referring to Bonnie Parker, right? |
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Subject: Bush's speech From: Jack the Sailor Date: 21 Sep 01 - 03:07 PM Sorry for the overreaction, I was expecting an honest conversation and didn't get it. I was extreemly fearfull and my adrealine took over my typing fingers. The BS in the title should have tipped me off. Americans, That speech had many undercurrents and hidden meanings. But utlimately it was a declaration of war on the present government of Afghanistan. Supporting your government doesn't mean you should stop thinking for yourselves. Remember the past, don't let your government make any major mistakes. Learn the point of view of your foreign friends and allies. Be vigilant. Please. God Bless America. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: harpgirl Date: 21 Sep 01 - 03:11 PM I think we should wage war on the present government of Afghanistan, in case anyone doesn't get that from what little I have said about this issue so far. I think we should FREE AFGHANI WOMEN!!!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: Kim C Date: 21 Sep 01 - 04:03 PM I don't think it's necessarily a load of crap that the terrorists hate freedom/liberty/democracy. Look at it this way: if the US is the Great Satan, and the US loves freedom/liberty/democracy, then by hating the Great Satan, they also hate what the Great Satan stands for, which is freedom/liberty/democracy. Just a thought. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: kendall Date: 21 Sep 01 - 05:08 PM Kim C, that is really convoluted! I cant comment on the speech because I didn't hear it. I too cant stand the sight or the sound of that moron. However, I dont think either Doug or Troll mean to start trouble. Even though I disagree with them on all political matters, they strike me as being honest, decent, thoughtful and, unfortunately, wrong. No, they are not wrong, I have no right to say that. I do have the right to say I disagree with them. Troll, I have said repeatedly that I am a liberal, and I support the second amendment. Why dont you hear that? I have also said Clinton was a disgrace to the office, that I have voted republican in the past, that I sent a contribution to McCain, and you dont hear any of that. When has either of you two said anything good about a democrat? I dont recall if you have, and you both seem to support any republican. Come to think of it, that's what makes me a liberal. I'm not hidebound. One final word to you two, I'd have dinner or a beer with either of you, but stay away from politics. In my younger days, I could start a fight in an empty house! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: Kim C Date: 21 Sep 01 - 05:12 PM Of course it's convoluted. Terrorists don't seem to me to be logical people. But it seems to me that if they don't like us, they also don't like the things we stand for, or the things we do. Maybe they don't like that the women in our country run around with their navels exposed. I dunno. Remember I already said I don't understand a bunch of this stuff anyway. :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: X-Ed Date: 21 Sep 01 - 05:20 PM To Jack the Sailor, your mind set is so unrealistic. No criminal ever listens to law. The idea that America asked for this ATTACK is as ridiculous as a black getting away w/ killing a white becaude the black was oppressed. Jr. was not my 1st choice as President, Harry Brown was. However the speech was impeccable for him. He seemed to be speaking from the heart. I saw him look at his notes only once. Anybody checkout teh attitude on Hillary? SHe is just such as selfinvolved...... eh! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: Troll Date: 21 Sep 01 - 05:31 PM Kendall, I have said it once and I'll say it again, Bill Clinton is a MASTER Politician and highly adept at reading the public mood. Had it not been for his insatiable lust for power and his unfortunate inability to keep his trowsers zipped he might very well have gone down as a great president. The opportunities were certainly there. The most charitable thing I can say about Carter is that he makes an excellent ex-president. LBJ had a war and the burden of Camelot to deal with. I don't think he ever really had a chance. OK? BTW, I don't like the Republicans that much either. I lean toward Libertarian and I voted for Bugs Bunny in the last election. troll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: Kim C Date: 21 Sep 01 - 05:40 PM What do you reckon ol' Bugs would do in this instance? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: Walking Eagle Date: 21 Sep 01 - 06:05 PM Me? I went to see a man about a dog. *snicker*. No seriously folks, I was busy restringing an instrument. You know something about restringing? At first, the instrument acts ornery as hell, but then it eventually comes around. I'm not sure this war against terrorism will. What's my point? I'm too confused to know myself. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: Donuel Date: 21 Sep 01 - 06:12 PM I have no problem with bush holding up a badge during his speach. I would have liked to see a symbol of the fireman. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: SharonA Date: 21 Sep 01 - 06:33 PM I'm another who missed the speech. Spent longer than I expected getting my after-work shopping errands done, and got back in the car to turn on the radio just in time to hear him say, "Thank you". I'm with kat and GUEST: I hate listening to and watching the man speak, especially to Congress (look at TelePromptR on left side of aisle, look at center camera, look at TelePromptR on right side of aisle, look at center camera...) but the video clips that I've seen last night and this morning make me kinda think that, as WYSIWYG says, his speechmaking skills are improving. And the thought occurred to me, too, that his hopes for America's commitment to his war effort include the hope that he will be re-elected. Of course, the next coupla years will tell... if he and we live that long. I chatted with my co-worker this morning (the one whose best friend lost a son to the WTC attack) about Bush's delivery and speculated that he must have had some training in sermon delivery (citing as added proof the speech/sermon he gave last Friday at the national prayer service in DC). BTW, that co-worker of mine attended the Philadelphia Flyers-New York Rangers hockey game last night — or should I say the two-thirds of a hockey game — where the crowd insisted on watching the speech instead of allowing the third period of the game to commence. My friend was amazed at the experience: not only did Philly's hockey fans NOT want to watch hockey, but they also cheered the mayor of NYC and the governor of NY. I'm not sure that anyone outside the Philly area understands just how significant that is! My friend said that last night, Philadelphia truly was the City of Brotherly Love. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: DougR Date: 21 Sep 01 - 07:44 PM Jeeze, Kendall, I think I said something nice about Clinto in this very thread. He was, as Troll pointed out, a master politician and a super public speaker. I admire President Carter immensely. I think he is the epitome of what an ex-president should be. I don't personally dislike any democrat I can think of, I just don't agree with their political philosophy of the majority of them (there are conservative democrats too you know). When Barry Goldwater was first elected to office he never would have won the election without the support of conservative democrats. I know many democrats who I consider to be friends. One of them, though I have never met him, is Kendall Morse. DougR DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: Greg F. Date: 21 Sep 01 - 08:40 PM I urge everyone to read Dubya's speech- several times. The text is easily available in lots of places. The empty platitudes and mindless assumptions and over-simplifications come across much more clearly in print. "Carrying a big dick"' as someone here has already said. So he was able to read what someone else had written for him off the teleprompter without screwing up too badly (not much he can do about the irrepressible smirk, apparently) but so what? We're still at the point where every time he manages to go to the bathroom without pissing on his shoes he gets universal accolades. WHY? The speech itself is just that- words. Lets wait and see what the administration actually DOES. Paul "Mad Dog" Wolfowitz is still performing his rendition of Randy Newman's "Lets Drop The Big One Now"- no point in just bombing Afghanistan back into the stone age- lets do Iran, Iraq & anyone else that pisses him off while we're at it! Tom Ridge's new Committee of State Security (soon to be re-named the People's Commissariat of State Security) is only getting started- who knows where the new secret police will take us? There's already talk in legal circles (and several articles) about courts being much more favorable towards Racial Profiling now- since we need to go after them nefarious A-Rabs! and more of the same to come. Terrorism may not be the only danger we're facing, folks- and if we're not careful it may turn out in the long run to be the lesser danger. Best, Greg |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: Donuel Date: 21 Sep 01 - 09:27 PM My next door neighbor's first words out of his mouth after the attack was "Its the liberals who done this letting in all them furners , bringin this country down from within". All I could do was think of the inscription on the Staue of Liberty and leave him to grieve as all us must do in their own way.
Last Christmas I got one of those Hilshire Farms salami logs I knew I would never eat so I tossed it over the fence for his dogs. Awhile later he was complaining about other dogs and perhaps a neighbor that were inciting his dogs to howl and bark every night well past 3 AM. I told him as a musician I know exactly which dogs are doing the barking and that I have to sleep downstairs with the TV on to get some sleep. This evidently invited him to accuse me of trying to poison his dogs with a sausage and possibly poison the rabbits that he finds dead near his dog pen.
Should I escalate tensions and tell him that I do not discriminate between his dogs behavior and him? Should I deliver an ultimatum that he is either for me or against me?
As it turned out I found out what his favorite car was and I just happened to have a replica in the basement that I gave him for hiw birthday. Surley this man has legally killed fellow human beings. He has no relish for war and is not a meglomaniac to my knowledge.
You can finish the story any way you like by imagining the turn of events had I taken a tough stand or decided upon retalliation of some sort over something as simple as barking dogs and no sleep. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: Ebbie Date: 21 Sep 01 - 09:38 PM I'm another who has trouble listening to the man. However, at Yahoo.com, they list the full text of the speech. There he says most of the things I want to hear- the call to nations to support the 'war' (hate that word) against terrorism, the necessity of recognizing that terrorism must be dealt with; he even sounded like he's become aware of the ambiguity of the proposed cat and mouse game. Unlike what he was saying before: "We will find them in their caves and smoke them out" (All I could see was the horrific pictures of the napalmed Viet Cong). He seems to have had recent briefings that laid out clearly for him some of the difficulties in the course he was proposing. Having said that, I think my operative thought is that he was briefed, that he was made to understand the impossibility of going with his gut instincts, not that he has suddenly become statesmanlike. MO But God, I wish him well. Because I wish us well... I hope that in the months and years to come we don't find it necessary to increase the misery of the people in so many cities and countrysides, and I hope we don't have to go through more destruction and sorrow at home. And all of it sounds too much to expect. But dropping bread across the countryside- ah, that I can support! It could be hard for the powers to convince the people with food in their hands of our demonic components. Ebbie |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: GUEST,CLETUS Date: 21 Sep 01 - 09:39 PM Say thair Donnell ol buddy, iffen ya got ennymor uv them salamis, doan go awastin em on no dawgz. Me an Paw an the Reg Boyz kin takem offen yer handz an weed be rite happy bowt it. CLETUS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: Troll Date: 21 Sep 01 - 11:31 PM OK Greg. Here's your chance.. Lets hear your plan -in detail- for handling this crisis. Please include any research or evidence that might back up your ideas. Try to avoid perjorative terms or inflamatory rhetoric. Please be specific and concise. Of course, if you have no plan...oh, but I'm sure you must troll. |