BS: Farewell To Mudcat II

Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: Scabby Douglas
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 11:46 AM

Jon - Good Luck.

I've already expressed my thoughts to you in PM, and won't reiterate them here. I'll look forward to visiting your new site.

Cheers

Steven

Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 02:12 PM

I've been perfectly happy with Mudcat since I first discovered its existence in fall of 1999. On DT I've found the words to huge numbers of songs that I'd been seeking for years, there for the downloading. On the forums I have found a wealth of information that I probably couldn't have found anywhere else without years of digging. In turn, I've had the opportunity to share what knowledge and experience I have with those who may be interested. I feel that I've made friends with a lot of people whom I have never met and I've made contacts and have been given opportunities that wouldn't have happened otherwise (several things, including being asked to write a guest column in a local folk music magazine). It is a unique and powerful resource on many levels, and I am eternally grateful to Max and those others who started it and keep it going—and to the Mighty Minions of Mudcat who make up the whole community.

I get immensely disgusted with people who occupy vast amounts of bandspace (provided by Max) bitching about what's wrong with Mudcat, how Max doesn't know what he's doing and/or how he and Joe Offer and Pene Azul and rest of the "inner clique" are involved in some nefarious plot to prevent Mudcat from reaching its (in their view) full potential. My admittedly knee-jerk reaction to this is "Okay, wiseguy, anybody can whine and complain. If you think you can do a better job, then why don't you start your own website and show Max how you think it should be done?"

Jon Freeman is doing that. For this, I salute him and wish him the best of luck. If he can provide resources and opportunities anywhere near what Mudcat has, then what can I do but be grateful and offer every encouragement I can? We'll all be better off. After all, it's not an "either-or" situation, is it?

I shall watch with great interest.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: AliUK
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 02:15 PM

went to The Anexe and...suprise, suprise...it had non-music threads on it! Wow.

Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: MMario
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 02:25 PM

aliUK - the Annexe was ESTABLISHED for non-music threads. Jon has not yet got his music forum running.

Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: AliUK
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 02:33 PM

Ahhh...ok...my mistake. Was interesting though.

Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: Amos
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 06:34 PM

This raises the ancient philosophiickle question, "What is non-music, really?". Is there a definitve answer to tyhis question?

Of course we all know the pat answer -- "a horse wrote it" -- but is that really good enough?

While we're at it, I think I'll start a thread on "Why We Don't Sing". Hmm -- interesting -- we could die it in with all the non-events and meaningless hours we spend at the terminal. "I don't sing because I am too busy clicking on links" or "I don't sing because I am dried up and unfeeling within" kind of thing. It'd be great!!

(flees stage left, pursued by a herd of airborne capos...)

A

Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 06:44 PM

Amos,

Get back to the Mudcat CD

Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: Callie
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 10:52 PM

I haven't been following who said what to whom, but if you're really going Jon then thanks for your generosity and friendliness, esp on the old "Hear Me" sessions. Good luck with your new venture. I hope it is fulfilling. Callie

Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: Terry K
Date: 20 Jun 02 - 03:11 AM

I can quite understand how one can be completely "Shatnered out". Some of the inanity here (under the guise of humour) is a real piss-off.

Don't get me wrong, I think the Mudcat as a music resource, as a source of help, and as a community is unique and I hope to continue to be accepted here.

But when some fairly tame joke is perpetuated ad nauseam, it's a bit like being back in second year. It's also fairly yuck-making to see claims of "I love you" and "you're my great friend" from people who you just know have never met.

The popular bleat is "don't open those threads" but that doesn't quite work. I liken it to a pub; you will generally find all types, from all walks of life. But if those who make the most noise in the place are simply annoying, you will tend to go somewhere else. I haven't yet found the Mudcat so annoying as to not visit, but I guess many other people have. I know you need to open lots of oysters to find the odd pearl, but there are limits.

I just wish that some of the worst perpetrators ("you know who you are") would recognise themselves and try not to be so self-indulgent, because I do think it is genuinely damaging.

Some hope!

Best of luck, Jon, let us know where you are - hey, do you think that if you post your new site address here your post might be censored?

cheers, Terry

Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: wysiwyg
Date: 20 Jun 02 - 09:33 AM

Terry, all you need to do is use the extremely well-publicized "BS: filter" to skip those threads even being in front of you. Right now it's something you use as a URL. Soon it will be an automatic default setting you can choose.

The URL you can use now is:

http://www.mudcat.org/threadsnot.cfm?Title=BS:

If you bookmark that and use it as your site entry, you will see only a few nonmusic threads that were titled wrongly when started-- but Joe Offer catches most of those nowadays and retitles them. From the thread list that comes up, just right-click the threads you want to respond to, to keep the BS-free list on the screen. Use the bookmark, not the refresh button, to refresh the page, to keep it BS-free.

The new feature will be even simpler.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jun 02 - 09:38 AM

the extremely well-publicized "BS: filter

Is that a joke? Pray tell me where it is pubicised?

Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: harpgirl
Date: 20 Jun 02 - 09:49 AM

...how soon, Susan?

Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: GUEST,gargoyle
Date: 20 Jun 02 - 09:59 AM

Joe Offer catches most of those nowadays and retitles them.

Well, I guess ol' Joe is asleep at the switch today. These little lovies lend add a ludicrous lilt to your "wisdom" WYSIWYG!

Who are the terrorists? Part 113

Help: who knows there obscure holidays?

Bat Goddess' Birthday Today!

17 at last!!!

Help: who knows there obscure holidays?

Welcome to EUCLID!!

RA QUIZ

Btrieve Localization

Help: Hotel in Boucherville near Montreal

WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!

june 21st in Paris

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 20 Jun 02 - 10:05 AM

JON - BEST WISHES!!!

You performed a grand service by providing a playground for the most offensive propolgators to parade. THANK YOU!!!

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: wysiwyg
Date: 20 Jun 02 - 10:28 AM

The BS: filtering URL has been mentioned in just about every "Mudcat Sucks Now" thread, it's in the FAQ, it's been suggested all over the place whenever the issue is raised.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: Uncle Jaque
Date: 20 Jun 02 - 10:35 AM

Sorry to see such a squabble in Toyland, but such is Nature, it seems.

Might we hope for a link to Jon's new site here when it gets up and running?

I'm still a big fan of Mudcat, although there are a few things we yet await in the area of technical convieniences;

It would be grand to be able to format text without having to bother with all of the HTML code insertions, which obviously some of us have mastered better than others.

Being able to post a graphics file on occasion to share a scanning of old sheet music, a new instrument etc. on a thread, as some other forums I subscribe to allow, would be a nice feature as well. It does take a bit of bandwidth, we understand - but would be a very useful utility.
Perhaps it will happen - eventually, but the 'Cat is such a tremendous resource already that I'm willing to put up with a few minor inconvieniences for the moment.

Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: PeteBoom
Date: 20 Jun 02 - 11:00 AM

In fairness, Jon's point is a good one. I tend to agree that in this cyber-realm, creating a new forum does not by definition detract from any other forum. It MAY add great value - and, when combined, result in value greater than the summ of the individual pieces. Best of luck to you.

Also in fairness, most of the "Shatner" threads I've seen lately were old threads that were refreshed lately. Not that I'm thrilled with the BS: threads in general. However, I'm also not interested in many of the music threads. Those I am, then I keep an eye on.

Ah well, just me mebbe...

Pete

Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Jun 02 - 11:26 AM

BS: Mudcat accounts and commitee?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 15-Jun-02 - 01:42 PM
...It would be absolute madness to try to create another music site

BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
Jon Freeman
Date: 18-Jun-02 - 09:30 AM

I intend starting another folk forum...it will aim to focus on Music

Still, nothing wrong with a bit of absolute madness, I suppose. There's a fair amount round the Mudcat anyway; I'm encouraged at the indication that Jon's new venture will have it's share as well.

If it's a tenth as good as the Mudcat it'll be a greatr resource for us all. Except the ones who have some principled objection to using even a pseudonym of course. I suppose we're stuck with them here.

Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Jun 02 - 12:13 PM

As for Gargoyle's little list - I've just checked, and almost all of those have had the BS label added. And at least one of the three which haven't is a music thread anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: An Pluiméir Ceolmhar
Date: 20 Jun 02 - 12:17 PM

Farewell to Mudcat...

Sounds like the makings of a good SONG CHALLENGE! to me - or would that just stir up too much nasty stuff from the bottom of the pond?

Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: Big Mick
Date: 20 Jun 02 - 12:19 PM

It is hopeless. Can't you just wish him well and say goodbye? No wonder the trolls/flamers love this place. Everyone is so easy to predict. Jon is doing exactly what we have all suggested from time to time for those who don't like the way Max run's it. A little bad form on his part in his first post, but we are all human.

Jon,

Good luck on your new site. I will look in on it.

Goodbye.

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Jun 02 - 02:34 PM

Here's a farewell to the Mudcat song I posated a couple of years ago:

My PC is crashed,
all my cookies's are crumbled,
I'm trapped in this Web,
and my pride has been humbled
I think somebody's poisoned
this watering hole.
And the Mudcat's been skinned,
it's been slaughtered and sold.
My head it is sore,
and my heart it needs healing
Let's all sing out once more
And let's sing it with feeling
Let's break down the walls,
And let's bring down the ceiling
For they say that the day
of the Mudcat is gone.

One by one we go down,
and the last was Mike Billo -
and we buried him under
an old weeping willow,
and we carved on his tombstone
this epitaph plain,
"Rest in Peace! Rise in Glory,
Old Friend What's-His-Name"
My head it is sore,
and my heart it needs healing
Let's all sing out once more
And let's sing it with feeling
Let's break down the walls,
And let's bring down the ceiling
For they say that the day
of the Mudcat is gone.

When I first came upon it
out there in the desert
I thought I had found
an Oasis of Quiet
with the Mudcat in splendour,
and singing and shouting
But trouble soon came
and marauders and fighting.
My head it is sore,
and my heart it needs healing
Let's all sing out once more
And let's sing it with feeling
Let's break down the walls,
And let's bring down the ceiling
And rise to the skies
with the Mudcat reborn.
And let's rise to the skies,
with the Mudcat reborn.

(And the tune - Deportees.)

Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: Irish sergeant
Date: 20 Jun 02 - 04:47 PM

Jon: Good luck in your endeavour. I really don't know what the flap is about so I'll offer no comment other than to wish you well. Kindest regards, Neil

Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: GUEST,An Pluiméir Ceolmhar
Date: 20 Jun 02 - 05:15 PM

Nice one, McG., and more thoughtful than I expected. I was thinking more in terms of a skit, but I like it.

Evidently, as I suspected, people have been leaving for a long time. Reminds me of Brendan Behan's quip about the split being the first item on the agenda of every organisation in you know where.

Perhaps rather than a song we need a whole grand opera in which successive lead characters stand in the doorway singing long arias in which they repeatedly announce their departure, in counterpoint to a chorus which alternately entreats them to stay and wishes them Godspeed!

Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: SharonA
Date: 20 Jun 02 - 05:25 PM

Well, I said my well-wishes on the Annexe, but I'll say 'em here, too: good luck to both Jon and Pip in their new ventures!

Also, if I may venture an opinion, I think that it is to Max's credit that, even though he and Jon "had words" with one another, Jon was still free to post this thread to Max's forum uncensored. I have no doubt that when Jon's new site is up and running, he will be free to post an uncensored thread here announcing it. Max strikes me as being a lot fairer and kinder than some of the rest of us might feel justified to be, if we were in the same position as he.

Anyway, as Mick says, it's been suggested many times on many Mudcat threads that those who do not agree with the way things are done here might try starting their own music site and run it the way they see fit. Perhaps Jon's site will suit some people's tastes better; then again, perhaps some people will still be dissatisfied (of course, those people are welcome to do just what Jon is about to do!). But, as others here have said, there's nothing wrong with more music sites, and there's no reason not to visit more than one. That's what my father would call "the beauty part" of the internet: there's room for enough sites to suit everybody.

So I'm looking forward to seeing what Jon's new site will have to offer, as I'm looking forward to enjoying more of what Mudcat already offers! Above all, Jon and Pip and Max, have fun with your sites!!!

Sharon

Subject: RE: BS: Farewell To Mudcat II
From: Gareth
Date: 20 Jun 02 - 07:05 PM

Best wishes anmd sucess to you John - but it tends, and no offence intended, of the old political joke - What happens when two political organisations merge ? You get three political organisations !!

Gareth