Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: GUEST,02 Apr 04 - 08:45 AM
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 02:31 PM

The ad does call into question just who the company is target mareketing to with the ad. Does anyone here believe that the ad for women's lingerie is actually directed towards young women of the age of the model? Or is it directed at older men who (like a lot of the men here, if this thread is anything to go by) enjoy looking at the Victoria's Secret model?

Lest we forget, there is some controversy about Victoria's Secret advertising and their prime time "special" that has aired. Here is a link to an online political forum discussion about it:

America's Debate forum

And then there is the recent workplace sexual harassment court case, involving charges against a Hartford CT police chief and his deputy, which alleges that the chief fired a female officer for union activities. The fired female officer also alleges, among other things, overhearing the male chiefs and officers making lewd remarks, and beinf forced to "tolerate" pornographic material displayed in the workplace. The suit also alleges the deputy chief handed the female officer a Victoria's Secret catalog, and told her to pick something out.

The ad portrays an old, powerful male (Bob Dylan) getting his jollies leering at the young, scantily clad, innocent girl (ie the angel). That sort of says it all, IMO.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 02:31 PM

You're just jealous, Peter, because your own attempts to grow a Vincent Price mustache failed miserably... :-)

- LH

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 02:42 PM

The ad is targeting older men, in an attempt to get them to buy Victoria's Secret lingerie for women they know.

The whole Victoria's Secret thing is notoriously provocative and engenders a lot of anger from women of all ages.

From all women? Absolutely not. Women of all ages shop at and buy from the Victoria's Secret catalog.

Does the fact that many women buy Victoria's Secret Products mean Victoria's Secret's advertising doesn't make many women who don't buy their products, feel that Victoria's Secret is sexually exploitative and demeaning to them as women?

No.

Regardless of where you come down on the Dylan ad being provocative, disgusting, annoying, or whatever, does anyone here really believe the woman in the ad ISN'T intended to be a sex toy for the old man?

The old men commenting upon the ad in this thread are certainly suggesting through innuendo, that she is.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: Peace
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 02:43 PM

I want the lingerie for penguins.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: Peace
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 02:53 PM

Like, is it a hot flash or news that ads target people? Do you see any difference between this ad and an ad that was aired years ago in which a car came to a stop in the desert and about a half dozen scantily clad young ladies appeared from lord knows where and proceeded to drape themselves on the hood of the car?

Do you really think that this ad will make one damn bit of difference to the crap that goes on in the world? Really?

We have had professional sports people advertising shoes made by enslaved children in SouthEast Asia. Is this any more lewd or disgusting than that? We use tax money to have farmers burn wheat crops rather than get that 'surplus' food to where people can eat it. Millions starve to death every year on this planet, and the moral f#ckin' majority is worried about some ad that don't amount to a hill of beans.

If you want to change the ad or its airing, write a letter to the Victoria's Secret company and let them know you disagree, and why. Refuse to buy their products. Act, don't posture.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 02:55 PM

Guest2, this is a difficult subject for anyone to find middle ground. I truly understand your points and I do agree that too many commercials and pop culture lean toward promoting sexuality at the cost of respect for dignity and basic rights.

At the same time, I do not feel that I should feel guilty for appreciating the beauty of another human form. While the instances that you mention do describe an unfortunate attitude in society, I don't believe that most men fall into that catagory. Looking at a Victoria's Secret catalog does not make a person a "pedophile". After watching the commercial, I am not going to make lewd remarks to my female coworkers. Men that have those sort of "issues" are going to have those problems regardless of what society throws at them. People learn respect, or disrespect, for the opposite sex much earlier AND at home.

While men (myself included) will glance at a Victoria's Secret catalog, we are not going to go out and buy the product. Any company that markets themselves to people that aren't going to do business with them are not long for the market.

I completely disagree with your description of Bob Dylan as "leering" and "getting his jollies". While you may interpret him as a "powerful male", I think there are others that would disagree. I have seen Dylan in concert many times over the years, and this is bascially his normal look.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 02:58 PM

Feeling a little nervous under cross-examination, eh brucie?

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: Peace
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 03:00 PM

Asshole, I don't even know what Victoria's Secret is. I gather it's a fashion company of some sort. F#ck you, too.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 03:01 PM

You sure as shit sound PC there, Ron. I'm not buying it in light of your previous remarks, though. You're leering too.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 03:07 PM

"The ad portrays an old, powerful male (Bob Dylan) getting his jollies leering at the young, scantily clad, innocent girl (ie the angel)."

Funny, dressed in black with that mustache and goatee I say Dylan's character was a very specific fallen angel. The devil really did make him do it. The kick for the ad is that hee doesn't want to be tempted by what he sees that's good.

(PS, by this interpretation, the female angel character wouldn't have to be young at all. Young looking, perhaps, but immortal after all.)

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: Peace
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 03:08 PM

GUEST: Me thinks thou doth protest too much. I bet you watch TV, buy magazines, are influenced by ads. You seem to know what Victoria's Secret is. Why do you know this, and why do you lurk in dark corners moralizing? Why do you not have the guts to sign your name? You are likely who the ad is aimed at. And on you, it would work.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 03:08 PM

Oooh, a little touchy there, aren't we fellas?

Why do I find it so hard to believe brucie doesn't know what Victoria's Secret is, yet he was the second poster to the thread, and seems to be relishing the banter among the boys throughout the thread, considering his number and the nature of his posts to it, hmmmm?

So some of you fellas don't like the fact that someone associated a Bob Dylan commercial for ladies scanty lingerie with dirty old men and leering perverts?

I think that is YOUR problem, boys, not mine.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 03:11 PM

Dylan comes off as a dirty old pervert in this ad. It really is that simple. It is creepy as hell.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 03:12 PM

You're missing the point. Penguin Lust is a much more serious problem than this ad, which will soon be forgotten. Meanwhile, Penguin Lust stalks the streets of our nation unchecked! Go to the BS section (below) now, and learn the awful truth!

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: Peace
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 03:13 PM

GUEST: You are a piece of shit. I haven't seen the ad, mostly because I don't watch ads or television. You are cheap, but anonymous people are often like that.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 03:15 PM

Guess I nailed you for what you are brucie, considering the vehemence of your responses to me.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 03:15 PM

Guest, thank you so much! Based on the definition of "leer", I love to LEER!   I make no apologies for looking and enjoying a beautiful woman. That does not mean I make inappropriate and unwanted comments to women OR men. I can also see a distinction between pornography and art, not that I would try to push my values on others. I respect my marriage, protect my children, and pay my taxes. I guess I am "PC". If I knew who you were, I suppose I could pay you some compliments as well.

from Merriam-Webster:   
Leer - to cast a sidelong glance; especially : to give a leer

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: GUEST,Victoria
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 03:17 PM

Oooo, guest, you are a little touchy aren't you? Pervert.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 03:22 PM

Whatever. Your "I'm a fine, upstanding male role model" schtick doesn't fool me Ron. You are still an old guy getting your jollies looking at the nearly naked girl gyrating around in a ladies lingerie commercial, just like the washed up, dirty old perv rock star.

The fact that you like the dirty old perv rock star just makes you feel cleaner about it.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 03:25 PM

Dylan turned me on.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 03:26 PM

I am sick. I need help.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 03:27 PM

Will the real GUEST please stand up?

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 03:27 PM

GUESTED AGAIN!

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 03:29 PM

I guess I am an old guy at 46. Still, it is much better than being an 18 year old troll. At least the other Guest (2) made some legitimate comments.

I can see that what was a discussion has turned into something else. Probably best to end it since your school bell is probably about to ring. Good luck with your homework this weekend.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: Peace
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 03:32 PM

GUEST: You nailed yourself for what YOU are.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: GUEST,Britney
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 03:32 PM

I'm like, whatever. He's some famous singer, right? Victoria's Secret stuff is totally awesome!!! I would sooo love to model for them! I'm like, chill out, GUEST. You need it bad, that's what I'm guessing. Awwww...

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 03:36 PM

Bob Dylan looks for commercial success as Secret partner
By CLIFFORD PUGH
Copyright 2004 Houston Chronicle

The secret is out.

Scantily clad models in a new television ad for Victoria's Secret are prancing around the palazzo Palazzo in Venice with an unlikely companion: Bob Dylan.
The music legend, whose songs fueled the 1960s counterculture, even sports dark facial hair that looks like a bad dye job in the ad, which first aired on during American Idol Tuesday night.

It may seem a bit disheartening to longtime Dylan fans -- the New York Post dubbed the bizarre pairing the "sellout sell-out of the week" -- but the singer apparently had his reasons for appearing in the ad.

"We asked him to be in the commercials and he said yes, he would gladly go off to Venice with the supermodels," the underwear firm's CEO, Grace Nichols, recently told students at Colorado State University.

The Dylan connection was established last year when Victoria's Secret creative director Ed Razek sifted through the music of more than 50 singers, from Tom Waits to Luciano Pavarotti, hunting for a tune for an ad featuring a lingerie-clad model with angel wings.

"We put everything against the track, and nothing worked like Dylan," Razek recalled.

The song, a remixed version of Love Sick from Dylan's 1997 album Time Out of Mind, "captures everything relationships are about," Razek said.

For the ad's sequel, which will air for the next three weeks, the company used the same song -- and snagged Dylan to appear on-screen for the first time in a commercial. A nine-track CD of Dylan songs is available at Victoria's Secret stores for $10.

The odd combination opens the door to all sorts of grizzled rock star/product pairings. Will we see Aerosmith's Steven Tyler for L'Oréal hair-care products in the future? Or maybe Neil Young for Maybelline?

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 03:38 PM

I like the young girls, I can't stand Dylan. S and M is my thing.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 03:42 PM

This one is for brucie, since he doesn't know what Victoria's Secret is:

Victoria's Secret chief underscores growth
Company to enlarge stores, Nichols tells CSU students

By Janet Forgrieve, Rocky Mountain News
March 4, 2004

FORT COLLINS - Colorado State University students got to hear the serious side of selling frilly things.

Grace Nichols, president and chief executive officer of Victoria's Secret Stores since 1991, detailed the business of the famous lingerie retailer Wednesday as the keynote speaker for the school's Business Day.


"Behind the glamour, the supermodels and the public face, there is a business structure supporting all that," she said.

The brand's story begins 22 years ago, when Les Wexner wandered into a European-style lingerie boutique on a trip to San Francisco. Wexner, chairman and CEO of Limited Brands Inc., saw the potential to develop the concept into a large national chain, Nichols said. Soon after, Limited paid $1 million for the company.

Today, as the largest of Limited's brands, Victoria's Secret operates 920 U.S. stores and generated $3.5 billion in sales in 2002, including about $1 billion from online and catalog sales.

The picture was quite different in 1986, when Nichols joined the company as vice president and general merchandise manager.

"There were 100 stores, $100 million in sales, and the stores didn't make any money," she said.

Heavy discounting was common, she said, with the average bra selling at $12.

That began to change in 1993 with the first national advertising campaign, which included TV commercials and print ads. Since then, the company has grown to command a much bigger chunk of the $12 billion U.S. lingerie market.

Nichols showed the audience a clip of commercials, as well as a reel from all the free news and talk-show coverage of the company's world-famous fashion show.

The combination of advertising and public relations campaigns around the fashion shows spurred rapid growth in the 1990s, she said, and also allowed the company to stop heavy discounting.

Today, the average bra in Victoria's Secret sells for between $35 and $50, she said, and sales happen only twice a year, in January and June, to clear out seasonal items.

According to the company's annual report, filed with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission, Victoria's Secret saw sales at stores open more than a year climb by 6 percent in 2002.

The company expects to see bigger jumps in the coming years, as it works on increasing the size of its stores in existing markets, Nichols said. More stores, which now average about 5,000 square feet or so, will take on the look of the 21,000-square- foot flagship Manhattan store.

In markets where the renovation and expansion have been done and customers have more to choose from, she said, sales have jumped by almost 50 percent.

Victoria's Secret expects future growth to come from its continued focus on core items - bras and panties - as well as its sub-brands, including its best- selling "Body by Victoria" line, which brings in $500 million in annual sales.

This year, the company launched a new sub-brand, called Pink! and aimed at 18- to 24-year-old women, slightly younger than the company's typical customers.

And Victoria's Secret plans another ad blitz beginning this month. The latest commercials will feature not only a song but a guest appearance by music legend Bob Dylan.

"We asked him to be in the commercials and he said yes, he would gladly go off to Venice with the supermodels," she said.



By the numbers

920: Stores in the United States

$3.5 billion: Sales in 2002, including $1 billion in catalog sales

$12: Average price of a bra in 1986. Today's price is between $35 and $50.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 03:43 PM

My cookie was destroyed when my computer was overhauled, and I haven't been interested enough to get a new one. I do agree that there are more than one GUEST here. I believe that Dylan's supposed to represent a dark presence that contrasts with the "white angel" and his character isn't learing, although I understand that that could be the ultimate attraction of the commercial to many people.

Yes, I know what Victoria's Secret is and am not ashamed of understanding that women wear underwear nor am I particularly titlated by it when I see it. I have even spent the obligatory boring hours waiting in a VS store while my wife was trying things on. She buys there because they carry bras that fit her, not because of any input I have.

It's only underwear, after all. The rest is what you let be in your head.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: GUEST,Prissy Penguin
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 03:43 PM

This stuff doesn't shock me in the least. I've seen worse.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: Peace
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 03:44 PM

GUEST: You have some serious issues. Who you are may be one of them. Your obsession with ads is another. Good luck finding a doctor. You need one.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: Peace
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 03:48 PM

Thank you for telling me about the Victoria's Secret empire. I can't ever see myself shopping there. I don't know which GUEST posted the info, but thanks. If you are the GUEST who had a few things to say to me, thanks and go f#ck yourself. You certainly care more about VS than I ever will.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 03:50 PM

Even though I do not have a problem with the commercial, I do see something odd at work here.   Why are there over 80 postings about Dylan and underwear when another thread about Dylan and what is probably going to be considered a masterpiece of a recording (Live 1964) has only 9 comments at this time?

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: Peace
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 03:52 PM

Your guest is as good as mine.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: GUEST,Neil to Bob
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 03:57 PM

THIS NOTE'S FOR YOU

Don't want no cash
Don't need no money
Ain't got no stash
This note's for you.

Ain't singin' for Pepsi
Ain't singin' for Coke
I don't sing for nobody
Makes me look like a joke
This note's for you.

Ain't singin' for Miller
Don't sing for Bud
I won't sing for politicians
Ain't singin' for Spuds
This note's for you.

Don't need no cash
Don't want no money
Ain't got no stash
This note's for you.

I've got the real thing
I got the real thing, baby
I got the real thing
Yeah, alright.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 03:59 PM

It isnt fair that people use my name like this.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 04:04 PM

ITS NOT FAIR.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 04:05 PM

Lets play trolling for GUESTS.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 04:11 PM

OK, let's play.

If Dylan weren't in the ad I doubt I would have noticed it. Dylan with his hair dyed and slicked back that way, well, who wouldn't wonder what was up?

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 04:13 PM

How do I know it is Dylan in the ad? Just ask one of me.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 04:14 PM

It is Dylan stupid.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 04:14 PM

Loose your cookie, right bad guest?

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 04:17 PM

Where is Stephen King when he is needED!

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 04:18 PM

Ruuuuunnnnnnnnnnnnn. There coming, ruuuuuuNNNNNNN.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: GUEST,02 Apr 04 - 08:45 AM
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 04:19 PM

Sure, bad brucie.

But instead of carrying on like this though, why don't you just grow up and stop doing this idiotic "I'll pretend to be an obnoxious, anon guest" every time you put your foot in your mouth in threads we disagree in a thread? This behavior of yours brucie, is really getting tiresome.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: Peace
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 04:21 PM

Same to you, S

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: Peace
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 04:21 PM

hithead

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: GUEST,Shlio
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 04:25 PM

THREAD HACK AND EXTRANEOUS GDUESTS ALERT!!!

Btw, does anyone know why Dylan agreed to do the ad?

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 04:31 PM

"Btw, does anyone know why Dylan agreed to do the ad?"

Common suggestions:

Money
Wanting to be hip
Attractive, scantily clad women on the set
Money

Wait, I'm good GUEST and I lost my cookie. What are you trying to say, brucie?