Origins: Moses Ri-Tooral-I-Ay

Subject: RE: Origins: Moses Ri-Tooral-I-Ay
From: GUEST,Paul Burke
Date: 10 Dec 04 - 08:57 AM

If it was written in 1907, it was just after the Limerick pogrom:
What was the Limerick pogrom?
Which makes the casual racism (Jews are small and fat: they can expect favours from friends in high places) just a little distasteful.

Subject: RE: Origins: Moses Ri-Tooral-I-Ay
From: GUEST,Ellen
Date: 27 Dec 05 - 03:27 PM

Hi I know I'm late to the party. I notice references here to the "Clancy's". However there is a version of the song by Margaret Barry, a ballad singer. She was known in the 20s, 30s and 40s and earned her wages singing at fairs on the west coast of Eire -- though Alan Lomax did finally do proper recordings of her in the 50s -- they're a bit crude but nonetheless charming.   It makes me think the references to banning Irish are about the time during the elder lord major Briscoe's office. (Shorlly after 1916?). Llanguage might still have been a hot topic then.

Subject: RE: Origins: Moses Ri-Tooral-I-Ay
From: MartinRyan
Date: 27 Dec 05 - 08:46 PM

Ellen

If you read through the thread, you'll see that Briscoe is a latecomer to the party! Language was indeed a "problem" at the time.

Regards

Subject: RE: Origins: Moses Ri-Tooral-I-Ay
From: GUEST,Kathleen O'Farrell
Date: 26 Jul 08 - 05:38 PM

My mother (born 1890) used to sing this song in the 1930s and there was not word about Briscoe in it.
Robert Briscoe (and, I believe, also his brother) was a patriot during the struggle for freedom and a very well respected Lord Mayor of Dublin some time around the 1950s.
In my mother's version the policeman was called a "bobby", Moses' name was written on a dray (a cart) and "a little black man packing glass into straw" in those days meant a darkhaired man. The bobby ended up as a "scavenger" not a garbage collector.
Peter the Packer was a judge with a reputation for "packing" juries (by selecting only pro-Crown individuals), hence the "I pack for a living, you pack for one too".
The song was anti-British, anti-authorities but definitely not anti-Semitic. My mother would never have sung it if it had been: a devout Catholic, she admired the Jewish people in Dublin because, in her opinion, they were goodliving, hardworking, of sober habits and generous to the poor.
Regards, Kathleen

Subject: RE: Origins: Moses Ri-Tooral-I-Ay
From: MartinRyan
Date: 26 Jul 08 - 07:26 PM

While I agree that the song is never regarded as anti-Semitic in Ireland, its author could certainly be described as such - see my earlier posting.

Regards

Subject: RE: Origins: Moses Ri-Tooral-I-Ay
From: Fergie
Date: 26 Jul 08 - 10:42 PM

Hi Martin et al

This is facinating stuff.

Fergus

Subject: RE: Origins: Moses Ri-Tooral-I-Ay
From: GUEST,Oz Childs
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 02:31 AM

A scavenger is a garbage collector. When I lived in San Franciso, the two garbage haulers were "scavengers" (the main one was "Sunset Scavengers" as I recall). Shouldn't be surprised if the scavengers were Irish at first, before the big wave of Italian immigration.

In that respect, the Clancy Bros. version just updated the language of the lyrics.

Subject: RE: Origins: Moses Ri-Tooral-I-Ay
From: kendall
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 12:27 PM

Poetic license.

Subject: The Limb of the Law
From: Felipa
Date: 11 May 19 - 06:40 PM

a somewhat related song by Brian O'Higgins about a policeman trying to learn Irish language is in the Digital Tradition. But I don't find it in a forum search apart from the title being given in a list of Frank Harte songbook lyrics. The Limb of the Law

Brian O'Higgins also penned the song about emigration and parted lovers, "A Stór Mo Chroí" according to various sources.

Subject: RE: Origins: Moses Ri-Tooral-I-Ay
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan
Date: 12 May 19 - 03:14 AM

Hi Felipa,

Yes - O’Higgins wrote “A Stór mo Chroí”.

Regards

Subject: RE: Origins: Moses Ri-Tooral-I-Ay
From: Charley Noble
Date: 12 May 19 - 10:45 AM

Nice!