BS: The WMD that is never mentioned

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: Rapparee
Date: 04 Jan 05 - 12:40 PM

No, I'm not qualified to comment, but I know folks who are. I've sent this to a friend at Argonne and a friend at Goddard. One is a PhD in astrophysics and the other in plasma physics.

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 04 Jan 05 - 12:52 PM

Thanks beardedbruce. The scariest part is that it can now be dehydrated for easy concealment and transport, and can be reconstituted when necessary!

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 04 Jan 05 - 12:56 PM

Any discussion of weapons of ass destruction should start here.

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: DougR
Date: 04 Jan 05 - 01:00 PM

Wow! Love that fish scaler! Just think, it's made of stell and plastic!

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 04 Jan 05 - 02:37 PM

The last picture was more of a battlefield or tactical scaler. Now THIS is a mass scaler weapon.

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Jan 05 - 05:38 PM

I will attribute the "uniformed" crack to the fact I am still recovering from the flu so I am a bit crankier than usual.

Amid the fish and fart sarcasm here, lets imagine one more rarely discussed weapon of mass destruction:

Suppose we could build gigantic multi gigawatt ionsphere heaters and aim them at the sky from a spot close to the artic circle. Imagine further that the energy pumped into the atmosphere can cause jet streams to alter their course according to man made manipulations of the energy radiated by this gigantic machine.

Now lets name this gargantuan machine/weapon with a cute acronym like the DOD does with most weapon systems. We already have 'Peace keepers and Daisy cutters so lets name this one with angelic initials such as HAARP.

For a lark I can imagine the Soviets having one years before the US and picture a meeting in the crisis room deep underground at US cental command when a General stands up and says "Gentlemen, we must not have a HAARP gap!".

Imagination is a wonderful thing.

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: Rapparee
Date: 04 Jan 05 - 06:30 PM

Oh, come on now! Arecibo, Puerto Rico is NOT near the Arctic Circle!

The HAARP project aims to direct a 3.6 MW pulse in the 2.8-10 MHz bandwidth into the ionosphere and then to examine the effects of the pulse and the recovery period using associated radar equipment. According to the HAARP team, this will advance the study of basic natural processes that occur in the ionosphere under the natural but much stronger influence of solar interaction, as well as how the natural ionosphere affects radio signals. This will enable scientists to develop techniques to mitigate these effects in order to improve the reliability and/or performance of communication and navigation systems, which would have a wide range of applications in both the civilian and military sectors.

The project is funded by the Office of Naval Research and jointly managed by the ONR and Air Force Research Laboratory, with the principal involvement of the University of Alaska. Fourteen other universities and educational institutions have been involved in the development of the project and its instruments, namely the University of Alaska, Penn State University (ARL), Boston College, UCLA, Clemson University, Dartmouth College, Cornell University, Johns Hopkins University, University of Maryland, University of Massachusetts, MIT, Polytechnic University, Stanford University, and the University of Tulsa. The project's specifications were developed by the universities, which are continuing to play a major role in the design of future research efforts. There is both military and commercial interest in its outcome, as many communications and navigation systems depend on signals being reflected from the ionosphere or passing through the ionosphere to satellites.

The HAARP project offers annual open days to permit the general public to visit the facility, and makes a public virtue of openness; according to the team, "there are no classified documents pertaining to HAARP."

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Jan 05 - 06:35 PM

Lets imagine the HAARP installation is in Alaska.

I don't know what gave you the impression that its in PR

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: Bill D
Date: 04 Jan 05 - 11:09 PM

well....lots to read

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: Bill D
Date: 04 Jan 05 - 11:13 PM

WAY too much to read

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: Rapparee
Date: 05 Jan 05 - 09:39 AM

The fact that there at three installations in Alaska and one in Puerto Rico, for one thing. There are also installations (under other auspices, but using some or all of the same technology) in northern Norway near Tromsø; Japan; the University of Leicester; Sodankylä, Finland; Jicamarca, Peru; near Moscow, Nizhny Novgorod (SURA) and Apatity, Russia; near Kharkov, Ukraine; and in Dushanbe, Tadzhikistan.

It took VERY little searching to turn this information up -- and it's not classified. In fact, the US HAARP installation near Tok, Alaska has had open houses for the public.

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Jan 05 - 11:10 AM

ah-HA! So they're hiding it all in plain sight! What a sneaky, devious way to disguise Doomsday weapons. They give tours, but don't explain that the little button labeled "V C" means "Vaporize China".

Lordy....what ARE we supposed to do if there ARE super-weapons disguised as radar test stations out there? Or Area 51s in Nevada?

If it is all benign, there's no problem....if it is a super-secret plot, I doubt that all the speculation in the world is gonna change anything. Write my congressman? Go to Alaska and picket a field of antenna while bemused Caribou walk by me? Start another website 'exposing' it all?...I think I'll wait till the glow in the sky starts buzzing over MY house.

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: robomatic
Date: 05 Jan 05 - 11:51 AM

The most pitiful thing about this thread is that there has been some real doomsday stuff done that this folderol diverts attention from.

Don you cover yourself by liberal uses of the words 'suppose' and imagine. To which I can easily respond: 'Supposin' it ain't' and 'imagine that!'

Use spell-check a little more, and you will continue to be uninformative rather than uniformative, and your 'artic'les may improve, but I doubt it.

You have a proven competency as an illustrator. Why'n't draw a picture of a doomsday device and maybe someone will buy it.

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jan 05 - 02:43 PM

Whoops!
Thought this was another thread about toilet paper.

Sorry!

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Jan 05 - 02:50 PM

"The most pitiful thing about this thread is that there has been some real doomsday stuff done that this folderol diverts attention from."


do tell

We already know about nukes and bioweapons.

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 05 Jan 05 - 05:06 PM

The biggest doomsday threat of mass destruction is posed by global environmental degradation. It's happening right now, and accelerating. And our government claims it is not happening, and if it is, it has nothing to do with us, and stopping it would be "bad for business". Bad for busines?!?!? Hard to sell riding mowers, DVD players and diet cola to an extinct race.

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: robomatic
Date: 05 Jan 05 - 07:05 PM

"We already know about nukes and bioweapons. "

I don't think we do

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: Rapparee
Date: 05 Jan 05 - 10:30 PM

The US fire bombing of Japanese cities killed more civilians than the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs combined, including those that have died since. The Japanese use of biological warfare against China and Manchuria killed a large, but indefinite, number of people -- Chinese, Manchurian, and Japanese. By various means the Third Reich was directly responsible for the deaths of at least 16,000,000 people. Stalin was responsible for the deaths of about 8,000,000, including the German soldiers who surrendered and were then marched off to Siberia. Pol Pot killed two or three million in Cambodia. The Hutu/Tutsi genocide in Rwanda killed -- how many? How many in Serbia? How many in Sudan? How many in Armenia? How many?

We don't need superweapons to kill off our neighbors. We do a pretty damned good job with what we have.

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Jan 05 - 11:44 PM

amen, Rapaire! (and he ain't makin' those numbers up!)

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: robomatic
Date: 06 Jan 05 - 12:06 PM

I third that agreement. I was referring, however, to a program on bioweapons research done on PBS by Nova (I think) which mentioned specific work done by the Soviets while they were denying they were doing any research (and in fact had signed a treaty to the effect to the US, which did comply). I'm not going to contaminate this thread any further with real WMD as the imaginary one has taken the title.

In another thread the subject came up as to how do you convince people (in that case the anti-vaccine crowd) that one set of information is bogus and another set is true. In this thread we have an assertion which doesn't jive with the facts, and no data in support of it at all. So I just put it down as entertainment.

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: Rapparee
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 01:49 PM

From a physical engineer at Argonne Labs, Chicago (PhD):

With all of the web-video images that Fermi has, at least we can see the end of the world on the web.

At the easiest level, the report is wrong factually. FermiLab has
NOT been increasing the beam energy in the Tevatron accelerator, it
has been increasing the beam current only. So the Tevatron can still
only achieve 4 Teravolts energy (4,000 billion volts). I do not know
where Dugan found the claim of 33 Tev. It also only runs at about 1 Tev.So Dugan's assertion is a "Nevermind"

As to his claim that at 33 Tev the accelerator will create a supernova, I was trying to find out where he discovered that. But I was not able to reach his web site.

This is actually the third claim that the world will end because of
high energy physics. During the atomic bomb development, one theoretical calculation found that the bomb detonation would ignite the earths atmosphere. Fortunately, it was wrong (although you have to admire the arrogance of science where it was, well we should at least try it).

When the Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider (RHIC) accelerator at Brookhaven as starting in 1998, someone calculated that colliding gold atoms at 25 Gev would ignite a plasma that would engulf the earth. Again, fortunately we did not see that either.

I am not an expert, but the issue is not simply the energy of a single
particle, such as a proton or a gold atom, because that is multiplied by 10exp(-19) due to the coulomb charge of the particle. You need to have a large number of particles to have a cosmic effect.

From the head of NASA's Magnetospheric Research Dept. at Goddard, a PhD in Plasma Physics:

Hope you enjoy the snow, it is much more real than what is talked about for Fermilab.

That should put the quietus to that!

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: robomatic
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 03:20 PM

Rapaire:

It should but it won't. Some folks just need to believe weird stuff, there's even a book about it by Michael Shermer. Other folks need to feed that other need. Sorta like did God make pacifists to help out sadists or vice-a versa.

In any case, I believe some folks will go on believing that at some level there was truth in this thread, and I believe that the originator of this thread will go on and make a few more. Each response is a little 'victory'.

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: M.Ted
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 07:44 PM

"Some folks just need to believe weird stuff"--in my experience, on close examination, everything turns out to be weird--

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 08 Jan 05 - 07:48 PM

Every time I come across one of these wonderful scientific dissertations based on dodgy interpretation of even dodgier evidence, I am reminded of the fact that, aerodynamically the bumble bee cannot generate sufficient lift to take flight. However, I won't tell him, if you don't.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: GUEST,Wolfgang
Date: 11 Jan 05 - 10:31 AM

How some others try to make sense of that catastrophe in their way of thinking:

Mahmoud Bakri in the Egyptian weekly al-Usbu published the theory that a secret nuclear test done in collaboration of the USA, Israel and India with the aim to find a way to eliminate all humans has triggered the tsunami. (USA, Israel, India? Well, that's the axis of evil in the mind a lunatic islamist)

Jussuf al-Qaradawi (preaching in Qatar TV) said that this was God's collective punishment for the people vacationing in that region who imbibe themselves with alcohol and fornicate. (I bet that some Christian preacher has said something very similar, but have not found a quotation yet)

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 11 Jan 05 - 01:21 PM

Actually a school chum of mine (Michael Dickinson, now at Berkely (?)) worked out the bumblebee aerodynamics problem. Had an article in Nature (?) about it last year. I'll try to find the reference.

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 11 Jan 05 - 06:34 PM

The old bumblebee can't fly myth dispelled.

And too think Mike and I used to sit on the beach after washing dishes and pass an old Ovation back and forth (he was a better picker than me).

Subject: TIA
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Jan 05 - 01:44 PM

In keeping with drifting from the subject or attacking the messenger;

Killer TIA's http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/bushtia.jpg

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: robomatic
Date: 12 Jan 05 - 02:55 PM

Donuel if you are referring to yourself, you haven't been a messenger of anything, you have not given any background you have basically trolled in a whopper as a starter and then sat back and watched the fun.

And speaking of attacks, your link is to a blatant attack of, I presume, your own devising.

Nice going, I'm so impressed.

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: Wolfgang
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 11:28 AM

A bit more on the crazy theories after the tsunami:

Mohamed Faizeen (German transliteration), chairman of the Center of Islamic Studies in Colombo, has the proof that Allah has sent the wave "as punishment for the humans not following his laws". You can even see Allah's signature in a satellite picture of the wavefront:

click

Sometimes these pictures I link to don't show here, so I tell it in case you don't see it yourself: A curved 'W' is seen in the wavefront with a bit of phantasy, a part of Alla's name in Arab writing. Reminds me of Christians seeing Satan's picture in the smoke on Sept 11th, 2001.

German rightwing nuts believe in the Jewish-American bomb triggering the event: Why else were so few Americans and Jews among the victims?

Not to foget the UFO buffs: Extraterrestrials have sent ther wave to correct the earth rotation (thanks anyway, but wasn't there a way with less victims; ET?). That fits well with some observations of a red triangle in the sky over India in the night before the wave.

Some other followers of the extraterrestrial idea see the ETs as less helpful: A superior intelligence plans the reduction of mankind to roughly 1 billion by exploding a supervolkano. The tiny earthquake and tsunami we have witnessed is but the last testrun before they really hit.

For the more scientifically minded: Ther real reason was a seismic test off the coast of Australia done for prospecting oil and gas (there's the oil angle!!!). The proof: 169 whales and dolphins have stranded at the coast of Tasmania just four weeks before the tsunami.

However, I think a German magazine hit upon the correct explanation when they blamed heavily overweight Helmut Kohl vacationating at the time of the disaster in Sri Lanka: "After Kohl's 'arse bomb' (if a diver dives arse first with the intention to make as big a splash as possible we call it an 'arse bomb') half of Asia flooded".

Yes, it was a satire magazine. But all other explanations are meant serious by those publishing them.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 05:10 PM

God's will arguments often work well with the ignorant.

Lately there is the Sponge Bob Square Pants conspiracy where SB and Patrick are actually preaching a gay life style to kids.

The writers for Sponge Bob countered with "A sponge is an asexual organism by definition."

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 05:12 PM

Mycoplasm bio terrorism

http://www.rense.com/general62/molecularterrorism.htm

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: GUEST,Frank
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 05:22 PM

The WMD's have been found. They were in America all the time.

Under the first Bush, they were given by America to the Iraqis to gas Kurds and act as a deterrent to Iran.

They were completely destroyed by UNSCOM. Completely except for the ones in America which are being stockpiled.

Frank

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: robomatic
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 05:46 PM

nice nazi website there, Don'l.

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: GUEST,Wolfgang
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 08:02 AM

Frank, this is not a thread about Iraq.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: The WMD that is never mentioned
From: GUEST,Rapaire
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 09:15 AM

Allah is signing his work now??????????