5 Dems to Stand Trial for Slashing GOP Tires

Subject: RE: 5 Dems to Stand Trial for Slashing GOP Tires
From: Joe Offer
Date: 16 Feb 05 - 05:36 PM

OK, so we have Amos going to the Getaway.

Now, if we could get Martin Gibson to go, we could smother him with warm fuzzies and turn him into a bleeding-heart liberal....

Well, come to think of it, warm fuzzies make me gag. As penance for suggesting such a thing, maybe I'd better go out and slash some tires.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: 5 Dems to Stand Trial for Slashing GOP Tires
From: Ebbie
Date: 16 Feb 05 - 05:48 PM

I know, Don Firth. That is why I wondered what Sinsull was referring to.

Marvin, in another thread you mentioned the time-honored humo(u)r Jews have always used. You might consider the fact that their humor is famously self-deprecating. You don't seem to have internalized it.

Subject: RE: 5 Dems to Stand Trial for Slashing GOP Tires
From: SINSULL
Date: 16 Feb 05 - 06:25 PM

My point was that the Democrats in this case stood up and were willing to testify against the accused criminals despite party affiliation. Under the Nixon administration lying to protect the accused burglars and their keepers tainted the very presidency.

Subject: RE: 5 Dems to Stand Trial for Slashing GOP Tires
From: Peace
Date: 16 Feb 05 - 06:29 PM

That and 18 minutes of tape.

Subject: RE: 5 Dems to Stand Trial for Slashing GOP Tires
From: Ebbie
Date: 16 Feb 05 - 06:59 PM

Ah. We're of the same opinion, which is what I thought.

I obviously did not make a clear statement with "There is one major difference between the 'liberal' Democrats and the 'conservative' Republicans. Liberals make no bones or excuses about the legality or appropriateness of vandalizing cars for whatever reason. I suspect that if it were the conservatives responding to one of their own, we'd hear totally different reasoning."

I meant that the liberals/Democrats are agreeing with the conservatives/Republicans as to the wrongness of the vandalism, and then further implying that the cons/Reps might not have the same reaction had it been Republican vandals.

Subject: RE: 5 Dems to Stand Trial for Slashing GOP Tires
From: akenaton
Date: 16 Feb 05 - 07:47 PM

I just don't understand American thinking.
Is it some sort of insult to be referred to as "friends" of the people who slashed the tyres?

These people were protesting against an administration which instigated an "illegal" war for spurious reasons against a virtually unarmed sovereign nation ,resulting in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent people.....and you're horrified about a few tyres?
   Now thats what I call CONDITIONING!!       Pathetic...Ake

Subject: RE: 5 Dems to Stand Trial for Slashing GOP Tires
From: akenaton
Date: 16 Feb 05 - 07:57 PM

They used to talk of the inhabitants of communist countries as being "brainwashed"

Dont you people realise that if you don't start kicking back soon it will be too late.

I would say to Bearded Bruce that these people would certainly be my friends, and the question he poses, asks more of himself than of Amos.

Subject: RE: 5 Dems to Stand Trial for Slashing GOP Tires
From: Ebbie
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 02:29 AM

akenaton, you're missing the message big time. The allegation is that aides/volunteers/whatever of the Democratic Party went out and slashed tires of vehicles that were meant to take registered Republicans to the polls the next day. In every election both sides want to get out the vote; dirty tricks to keep the other side home is definitely NOT part of the democratic process.

Dirty tricks in elections have been discovered from time to time- notably in Nixon's time - but we, the people, frown on it. Not to mention that if one side does it, the other side will do something worse and it escalates from there.

Subject: RE: 5 Dems to Stand Trial for Slashing GOP Tires
From: akenaton
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 03:38 AM

Ebbie....I didn't really miss the message.

My point is that we DONT have a democratic process.

In the UK and USA, people have stayed in their "democratic" boxes too long. Why do the ordinary people always have to play fair ,while those who rule us do the opposite.
There used to be an argument which said that any protest only makes matters worse,but both our societies are now set on a course which must be protested against ,regardless of the consequences.

Subject: RE: 5 Dems to Stand Trial for Slashing GOP Tires
From: Teresa
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 03:49 AM

Yes, indeed, Akenaton, those are revolution words, and I have to say I agree with them. I don't think most people do, however. It'll take some travelling into much harder times, I'm afraid, before folks start protesting on a grand scale.

That said, I was going to post here that I think this and the other thread, which I accidentally posted my comment on, are silly sniping, and we don't need it.

I want to meet both these 'catters at the getaway. :)

Teresa

Subject: RE: 5 Dems to Stand Trial for Slashing GOP Tires
From: GUEST,McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 05:36 AM

Gesture politics like that isn't "revolution", it's just a way of playing. Rolling Stones "Street Fighting Man" stuff.

Subject: RE: 5 Dems to Stand Trial for Slashing GOP Tires
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 11:18 AM

MG said That's because Amos lives for this place.

this is his life, folks.

The pot is calling the kettle black these days, eh?

Subject: RE: 5 Dems to Stand Trial for Slashing GOP Tires
From: akenaton
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 02:12 PM

McGrath...Like yourself , I marched with the hundreds of thousands against the war.
We marched in an orderly manner to the rallying point, where we heard a few speaches from a few politicians,then in an orderly manner, we went home for our tea.
The end of the 15th Feb Anti War march was a complete anti- climax.
We had so much raw emotion amongst the crowd, and we squandered it, the government continued to lie and manipulate, in fact they completely ignored us.

Looking back on the demonstrations of the past, the ones that made the difference were those where force was used, damage caused ,and a signal given that the people would fight for what they believe in.

Our rulers are quite happy to keep us fooled that we can achieve anything by "democratic means".
They dont like it when we jump out of the box..Ake

Subject: RE: 5 Dems to Stand Trial for Slashing GOP Tires
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 02:28 PM

I can't remember it working like that, akenaten. Tokenism isn't really that effective, and that's what that kind of thing is. Now, if we'd been able just to stop where we were in Whitehall, and refuse to go home, that might have got things moving, but the kind of symbolic street heroics that just trashes the place is a waste of time, and presents no kind of problem to the authorities.

They know how to deal with that stuff. In fact, it's what they want to see happen. It's not jumping out of the box, it's jumping into the box.

Subject: RE: 5 Dems to Stand Trial for Slashing GOP Tires
From: DougR
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 05:57 PM

The tires were on vehicles that the local GOP had rented to transport voters who needed a ride to the polls. Because they were not available on election day, many people were deprived of being able to vote.

The Kerry lovers on the Mudcat have ranted and raved about Democrats who were allegedly deprived of voting for one reason or another (not enough voting machines, not enough time, not enough ballots, etc.) Why don't we hear those same people ranting and raving about this injustice?

DougR

Subject: RE: 5 Dems to Stand Trial for Slashing GOP Tires
From: Ebbie
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 07:01 PM

Because, Mister Bright Bulb, "raving and ranting" is not productive. We spoke against it- isn't that good enough? You want us to go out and slash some of our own tires?

Subject: RE: 5 Dems to Stand Trial for Slashing GOP Tires
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 07:04 PM

One reason for the different scale of reaction might be the different scale of the offence.   

When people interfere with elections - either in this daft way, or in the organised and coordinated way it is sometimes done, where tens of thousands of peole are deprived of the vote by corrupt officials - that is an offence to all honest citizens, regardless of their voting preferance.

I would quite agree with Doug that, if people see that kind of thing as excusable or unimportant, just because their own side might benefit, that is disgraceful. In fact, when it their own side that benefits, that is the time an honourable citizen will get most angry. Don't you agree, Doug? Wasn't that why you were so vociferous in denouncing that kind of thing, for example in regards to what happened in Florida in 2000?

Subject: RE: 5 Dems to Stand Trial for Slashing GOP Tires
From: akenaton
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 07:35 PM

McGrath I think most people know that we are well and trully in the box, mainly through economic reasons.
Many people I know are working up to 80hr weeks to pay credit bill ,morgage payments and living expenses.

In all my life I'v never seen so many people with two or even three jobs.

Oh yes we're in the box all right,and the way out isn't the one marked "democracy".

If we want a better life for our people in the future, we'll have to kick that bloody box to pieces..Ake

Subject: RE: 5 Dems to Stand Trial for Slashing GOP Tires
From: DougR
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 10:35 PM

Yes, McGrath, I agree with you (where that leaves Ebbie, I'm not quite sure). Dirty tricks committed by either party to prevent people from exercising their voting right is wrong.

DougR

Subject: RE: 5 Dems to Stand Trial for Slashing GOP Tires
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Feb 05 - 04:44 AM

"Dirty tricks committed by either party to prevent people from exercising their voting right is wrong."

That is a principle to hold on to like a lifebelt. For example if there is ever again something like Florida 2000 - by either party.

Subject: RE: 5 Dems to Stand Trial for Slashing GOP Tires
From: GUEST,Amos
Date: 18 Feb 05 - 09:12 AM

Hear, hear, hear, DougR.

A

Subject: RE: 5 Dems to Stand Trial for Slashing GOP Tires
From: kendall
Date: 18 Feb 05 - 02:07 PM

Why you ask, Doug? Simple. Because that incident involved a handful of people. What the republicans did in Florida was a much bigger issue, they screwed thousands out of their right to vote.

The thing is (and I agree with Doug that what they did is dead wrong) it seems like most people just pay lip service to the dirty deed IF it is the other party, and if it's THEIR party, they go nuts!

In other words, sure he's a scoudrel, but he's OUR scoundrel. Classic case of, it makes a difference whose ox is gored.

Subject: RE: 5 Dems to Stand Trial for Slashing GOP Tires
From: Nerd
Date: 18 Feb 05 - 02:17 PM

DougR says:

The tires were on vehicles that the local GOP had rented to transport voters who needed a ride to the polls. Because they were not available on election day, many people were deprived of being able to vote.

Any evidence of this, DougR? Are you sure the GOP didn't just go and rent some more vans?

Subject: RE: 5 Dems to Stand Trial for Slashing GOP Tires
From: Auggie
Date: 18 Feb 05 - 02:41 PM

Numerous articles in the somewhat liberal, definately not Republican Milwaukee Journal-Sentinal newspaper support Doug R's contention.