African Music Threads & Posts

Subject: RE: African Music Threads & Posts
From: Big Mick
Date: 18 May 06 - 02:09 PM

Seems to me that the problem isn't the thread, I believe it is interesting and useful. Also seems to me that Azizi wanting to keep it on topic is a perfectly legitimate thing to do. The problem seems to me that Azizi wants to be able to define African Music and inhibit others from doing so. I have reread the initial post and it is vague.

IMO, it would be very important to include the music of the African Diaspora. Much of the Diaspora was forced against the will of the people. Often the only thing that could be taken was the music, songs, and stories. Hence this music of the new world forms a vital link with the land of the old world, and the identities of various peoples.

Keep the thread going, but it is what it is.

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: African Music Threads & Posts
From: Azizi
Date: 18 May 06 - 02:44 PM

I'll repeat what I posted earlier:

"Um, well I have to admit another mistake or two."

Hopefully, this thread will be of benefit and interest to persons whatever definition of "African music" is used and wherever the discussion/listing leads.

Subject: RE: African Music Threads & Posts
From: Azizi
Date: 18 May 06 - 02:53 PM

greg stephens and others:

As I mentioned in my first post, 'There may be a better way to compile these thread listings' on this multifacted subject.

If you have any suggestions, please pm me or post on this thread [though I would love this thread to get back to the music].

However, I don't have to lead this effort.

Despite my mis-step above, I am a team player.

Subject: RE: African Music Threads & Posts
From: wysiwyg
Date: 18 May 06 - 03:05 PM

As it now stands, it's a good resource with a variety of ways people can find out more or add more information.

~Susan

Subject: RE: African Music Threads & Posts
From: Big Mick
Date: 18 May 06 - 03:21 PM

Don't misunderstand me, Azizi. You are a valuable and much needed player in this thread and this forum. I think you are absolutely the one to give this discussion depth and meaning. Much of the important folk tradition in the world owes its existence to the African descended peoples, and you are a very good spokesperson. The key in many discussions is too simply give gentle nudges to the natural flow. That will be the key here. And this thread will hopefully spawn other discussions of this music, and its ties to other traditions.

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: African Music Threads & Posts
From: Azizi
Date: 18 May 06 - 06:11 PM

thread.cfm?threadid=45180#668744

Subject: RE: Help: Danger Waters - story behind the song?
From: hobbitwoman - PM
Date: 13 Mar 02 - 10:41 PM

Dave, I have a copy of Joan Baez in Concert (Vol. 1) on cd - and you're right - the original album was released in 1962. I have forced my poor aging eyes to read the incredibly small print, and here's what it says:
"Danger Waters: The ethnomusicologists have been tracing African influences on American folk music for decades, but now we find that our folk music, jazz and Latin American rhythyms are being re-exported to Africa and creating new hybrids which in turn will exert a new influence on our music. This lament of a hard-time heroine is from the Gold Coast, created in the "Highlife Cafes" patronized by the poor and less-poor, where a new African-Western-African music of extraordinary poetic and rhythymic strength is now emerging. Beneath the seemingly direct and simple verses is a fluid use of words and images which marks this as poetry of a higher order, a realistic poetry based on the patterns of ordinary speech which makes use of the slashing transitions and many-leveled ambiguities of the finest modern poetry."

I dunno, maybe I'm just tired, but that doesn't make it much clearer to me! It doesn't explain what the song is about - other than a "hard-time herione".

Annie

Subject: RE: African Music Threads & Posts
From: wysiwyg
Date: 18 May 06 - 06:11 PM

Azizi, you said:

...maybe these individuals who are specifically interested in the subject of African music, will stick around and and join in other discussions, and-hopefully, join Mudcat and regularly posts on whichever thread they wish to, and start new threads too.

I'm in full agreement with you about that. I have come to the conclusion that personal help is one of the most effective ways to build community, so that is the context I come from. (My upthread post about that was a contribution to the effort, not an argument or complaint about the best way or the only way.)

The link I posted earlier, BTW, gives access to hear sound clips of that group-- it's not just a plug for an appearance, although the thread TITLE is. It is a normal Mudcat convention to use a thread name as the link text. Some folks want to hear music, some want to talk about it, some want to do both. And some folks who have no context about African music at all need to hear it before they can talk about it.

Musicians especially, I think, want to talk about the musicality of music to a greater extent than they want to explore the cultural ramifications... And I think we do have more musicians here than professional historians, sociologists, or musicologists. Although some musicians do think about and talk about (and argue about) music's cultural ramifications-- and Mudcat is a great place to do that-- there are a lot of us who just want to experience music, by hearing it and making it.

I hope there is room for that, too, in your ideas, because folks around here seem to like trying out what other Mudcatters recommend, and this thread may also create an entry point for that side of things-- as Peace's BBC link does, above.

Hey-- did you know that you have already added something special to the culture of Mudcat with the term you often use, "upthread"? It's especially a good piece of lingo when you consider that a thread displayed 50 posts at a time doesn't show a previous post physically "above," but below-- and so "upthread," like "upriver," is a great word in this kind of setting.

You ARE appreciated here!

~Susan

Subject: RE: African Music Threads & Posts
From: Azizi
Date: 18 May 06 - 06:24 PM

http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=36657#507614

[When you hyperlink to this thread you will find a number of related threads listed below that thread title]

Subject: LYR ADD: Shololoza
From: Sorcha - PM
Date: 16 Jul 01 - 10:32 AM

Shosholoza
Traditional
This song has been recorded by a variety of artist. From Ladysmith Black Mambazo to PJ Powers and Peter Gabriel. It was even recorded by Helmut Lotti. Each artist recorded their own version so the lyrics might be different but these are the basic lyrics (with the English translation alongside - I can't vouch for the correctness thereof). The word 'Shosholoza' means 'Go forward' or 'Make way for the next man'.


From Boetie, Dugmore (Barney Simon, ed.), "Familiarity is the Kingdom of the Lost" (New York: Four Walls Eight Windows, 1969), pp. 71-72
'Chocholoza!' Chocholoza is the song that South African blacks sing under hardship. Especially by long-term convicts when engaged in hard labour. Chocholoza is like a child with no parents. Nobody knows when or where it originated from, but what everyone knows is that when there is some kind of deep-rooted ache in the heart, the first thing to visit the lips will be 'Chocholoza'. The song with no beginning and no end, as old as misery itself.


Shosholoza
Ku lezontaba
Stimela si qhamuka e South Africa
Wen u ya baleka
Wen u ya baleka
Ku lezontaba
Stimela si qhamuka South Africa


(Shosholoza
You are meandering on those mountains
The train is from South Africa

You accelerate
You accelerate
On those mountains
The train is from South Africa)

Here's the lyrics as recorded by Ladysmith Black Mambazo

Chorus:
Shosholoza
Ku lezontaba
Stimela si qhamuka e south africa
Shosholoza
Stimela si qhamuka e south africa

Wena u ya baleka
Wena u ya baleka
Ku lezontaba
Stimela si qhamuka e south africa

Verse 1:
Shosholoza
Work, work, working in the sun
We will work as one
Shosholoza
Work, work, working in the rain
'Til there's sun again

Verse 2:
Shosholoza
Push, push, pushing on and on
There's much to be done
Shosholoza
Push, push, pushing in the sun
We will push as one

Sithwele kanzima, sithwele kanzima (ooh, aah!)
Sithwele kanzima, sithwele kanzima (ooh, aah!)
Sithwele kanzima, sithwele kanzima (ooh, aah!)
Sithwele kanzima, sithwele kanzima (ooh, aah!)
Sithwele kanzima, sithwele kanzima (ooh, aah!)
Etshe!

Shosholoza

repeat chorus

repeat verse 1

repeat chorus

Shosholoza is available on the following compilation albums of South African music:
Ladysmith Black Mambazo with the Springbok Rugby Team - We Are The Champions - The Songs That Won The World Cup also on Anthems
Ladysmith Black Mambazo 1999 (Metro Mix) - Sound Offerings From South Africa 2
PJ Powers - Springbok Rugby Hits
Leon Schuster - We Are The Champions - The Songs That Won The World Cup
West Transvaal Youth Choir - Rainbow Nation - Rhythm & Chants From South Africa

From: http://www.geocities.com/rembrandt0/Lyrics/S/Shosholoza.html


(note--even I don't believe I found this!)

Subject: RE: African Music Threads & Posts
From: Azizi
Date: 18 May 06 - 06:39 PM

thread.cfm?threadid=16088#148972


Subject: Lyr Add: SARIE MARAIS
From: Shimbo Darktree - PM
Date: 11 Dec 99 - 09:24 AM

When I was at primary school (YEARS ago) we were taught this song. We were told it was from South Africa. You can have what I remember (first verse and chorus) but it will have the flaws of a child's memory.
My Sarie Marais is so far from my heart,
And I long to be with her again,
She lived on a farm by the Moie(???) River bank,
Before I left on this campaign.
Oh take me back to the old Transvaal,
That's where I long to be,
Way yonder 'mong the mealies by the green thorny tree,
That's where she's waiting for me,
I wonder if I'll ever see that green thorny tree,
Where Sarie is waiting for me.

Any South African Mudcatters?
Regards,
Shimbo

Subject: RE: African Music Threads & Posts
From: greg stephens
Date: 18 May 06 - 06:45 PM

I was critical earlier about the practical use of this thread, and I still am. So I would like to add(because I know how destructive negative energy can be) that I am a 100% supporter of Azizi's indefatigible attempts to make sure that discussions of black music get a fair crack of the whip here on Mudcat. Those who are familiar with what I do will know me, but I would like to add on this thread that I am a white do-gooder liberal, obsessed with ethnic music, who has attempted with various degrees of success to understand some of the different musics of the world, and to try to meet some of the people who make that music, and even try to join in with the process.So keep it up Azizi. But dont expect me to always appreciate the complexities of this thread!

Subject: RE: African Music Threads & Posts
From: Azizi
Date: 18 May 06 - 06:47 PM

Here are two posts from that thread. The 2nd [re]post is in response to the first [and the initial] post to that thread.

Subject: Audience participation? OK?
From: Chet W. - PM
Date: 11 Jul 99 - 01:07 PM

After trying for years unsuccesfully to get people to sing along, on choruses at least, when I was performing in public, I had the opportunity to perform and to be an audience member in some European countries. My experience was that if people know the song, you don't have to try to get them to sing along, at least in Central Europe. What's it like where you live?
Chet

-snip-

Subject: RE: Audience participation? OK?
From: Jeri - PM
Date: 11 Jul 99 - 07:07 PM

I remember seeing an African American performer once who said he'd taken a trip to Africa expecting to hear those syncopated claps. Guess what - he said everyone he heard clapping was doing so on 1 and 3. I haven't heard enough African music to know where the claps fall or whether they might have once fallen in different places.

Subject: RE: African Music Threads & Posts
From: Azizi
Date: 18 May 06 - 06:53 PM

Susan, you wrote

"Although some musicians do think about and talk about (and argue about) music's cultural ramifications-- and Mudcat is a great place to do that-- there are a lot of us who just want to experience music, by hearing it and making it."

This thread may be better suited for those who want to read about the cultural ramifications of music.

However, it would be great if folks would post links to websites with sound clips of African music.

Subject: RE: African Music Threads & Posts
From: Azizi
Date: 18 May 06 - 06:56 PM

thread.cfm?threadid=12063#93297


Subject: South African vocal music
From: Andrés Magré - PM
Date: 06 Jul 99 - 11:39 PM

Has anyone seen in the Web a source for Midis, or full score for the songs of that marvelous group called LADYSMITH BLACK MAMBAZO ? They are the most famous representatives of South African a capella songs called ISICATHAMIYA. They made a long U.S. tour in 1998.
I'm part of a large vocal group in Argentina, some of us interested in giving a try to those astonishing harmonies. Dozens of sites can be found in the Web, but only discography, history, fans, etc. I could not find a single sheet or Midi file. I recall all of you that I am very close to the sources of argentine folk and tango music, and would be glad to be of any help to those interested. Best regards - [e-mail]

Subject: RE: African Music Threads & Posts
From: wysiwyg
Date: 18 May 06 - 07:26 PM

Yes, Azizi, that's what I mean-- people may discuss here, when they want to, but they may need a hand finding what to listen to, before discovering they have anything to offer on the cultural discussion. I appreciate you making your intent on this thread a bit clearer-- if I understand what you mean-- culture, rather than the music itself?

~Susan

Subject: RE: African Music Threads & Posts
From: Azizi
Date: 18 May 06 - 08:09 PM

In my opinion, this thread speaks for itself.

Read this thread if you want to. If you don't want to read it, don't.

If you want to, post general comments about African music & links to sound clips on this thread.

If you want to, post comments and/or questions related to the subjects of specific threads about African music on those specific threads.

If you want, start new threads on African music.

And if you don't want to, don't.

It's your choice.

I'm interested in the information sampled here and preserved in those mostly archived threads. Hopefully, others are too.

As the spirit moves me, I will post additional links to other Mudcat threads on African music. I will also continue to post sample comments from those featured threads.

Others can post what they wish on this thread. Or not.

It's your choice.

Best wishes,

Azizi

Subject: RE: African Music Threads & Posts
From: Azizi
Date: 18 May 06 - 08:14 PM

And needless to say,

as the spirit moves other Mudcat members & guests, you can & hopefully will post additional links to other Mudcat threads on African music. Other Mudcat members & guests can & hopefully will also continue to post sample comments from those featured threads.

:o)

Subject: RE: African Music Threads & Posts
From: Alan Day
Date: 19 May 06 - 03:53 AM

There are examples of South African music on the recently released "Anglo International" which features Zulu Squashbox Music the brilliant 15 year old Regardt de Bruin and Zak van der Vyver
plus concertina music from various parts of the World (3CD set).
Al

Subject: RE: African Music Threads & Posts
From: GUEST,Asomani
Date: 24 May 06 - 11:52 AM

I'm looking for the lyrics for Africa, Center of the World.

Can anyone help me??

Regards

Asomani

Subject: RE: African Music Threads & Posts
From: wysiwyg
Date: 24 May 06 - 12:08 PM

Welcome to Mudcay, Asomani.

I've emailed someone to ask them to post the lyrics here or email me an MP3 so I can transcribe them to post in case no one here has them.

~Susan

Subject: RE: African Music Threads & Posts
From: wysiwyg
Date: 24 May 06 - 12:15 PM

Roy Ayers' website is here: http://www.royayers.com/ and there may be sound samples there, but my computer's sound is not working right now for me to transcribe the song's lyrics.

~Susan

Subject: RE: African Music Threads & Posts
From: Alba
Date: 24 May 06 - 02:16 PM

I have the Track "Africa, Center of the World" on the Album:
Music of many Colors by Fela Anikulapo Kuti and Roy Ayers

I would have to go searching through a lot of my Music as it is not the Genre I am working with at the moment and I don't have a turntable to play vinyl right now:) Asomani.
If you have no success finding what you are looking for please let me know and I would be happy to try and get something together and transcribe the Track for you.

Jude

Subject: RE: African Music Threads & Posts
From: Azizi
Date: 12 Jun 06 - 07:23 AM

I'm refreshing this thread for Quarcoo {and anyone else who wants to post to it}.

Quarcoo emailed me this morning indicating that he had tried to load this thread on Thursday, but it didn't load properly. And he said that on Friday, the entire Mudcat website was inaccessible.

Hopefully, those technical difficulties have been fixed so that Quarcoo and other 'Catters and Guests from African nations will have access to Mudcat for reading & for posting.

In his email Quarcoo also mentioned that Ghana is playing against Italy in the world cup today and the whole country is up in a frenzy.

Because I don't know anyone from Italy, and because I know one person from Ghana, I'm taking sides and saying "Good Luck to Ghana!!"

:0)


Azizi

Subject: RE: African Music Threads & Posts
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 12 Jun 06 - 07:29 AM

Azizi!!!

How are you my friend?   Oh Azizi, I've recently discovered such soul enriching music! Here, take a listen:

Ayub Ogada:
http://www.myspace.com/ayubogada

Isn't that just the most beautiful sound! I'll be back in a minute with some more links. Myspace is opening up music from around the world.


Lizzie :0)

Subject: RE: African Music Threads & Posts
From: Azizi
Date: 12 Jun 06 - 07:47 AM

Wow!! Lizzie!!

Thanks so much for introduing me to Ayub Ogada. I'm playing that clip now as I write. That's the kind of thing I was hoping would happen via this thread!

I love that clip!!! That soothing music is just what I need to help prepare me emotionally for the stress that invariably comes from my line of work.

Here's some information on Ayub Ogada:

Ayub Ogada's life is a prime demonstration of the wonders of cultural collision; the exposure to both traditional African and modern Western values provided a rich background on which he founded his unique musical talents. Ogada is one of the Luo people of Western Kenya, and he received his first exposure to Western culture early on. When he was six, his parents (also musicians), toured the college circuit in the U.S. Ogada then returned to Kenya with his parents, and was educated in a Catholic school, then an English boarding school. After finishing school, he played for several years in a Kenyan group called African Heritage Band, which fused traditional music with the sounds of rock and soul that Ogada and bandmates heard regularly on the radio. In 1986, he decided to take his talents abroad. Armed with his nyatiti (a lyre-like stringed instrument), he went to the U.K., and played on the streets for money. After the better part of a year, he was approached and asked to play at Peter Gabriel's WOMAD festival. In 1993, he was invited to Gabriel's Realworld Studios, where he recorded his first album, En Mane Kuoyo (Just Sand). He continues to tour extensively with WOMAD. "

-snip-

I've definitely got to get this CD. And I'm emailing a friend of mine in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania who is a Luo from Kenya. He probably knows about Ogada, but just in case he doesn't, I'll sending him that website address.

And-while I'm emailing him about that-I'm going to encourage him to check out this Mudcat thread, and hopefully join Mudcat.

Thanks again!!!


Azizi

Subject: RE: African Music Threads & Posts
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 12 Jun 06 - 07:55 AM

Diogal:
http://www.myspace.com/diogal

Alpha Dialia:
http://www.myspace.com/alphadialia

Rahmane Diallo:
http://www.myspace.com/rahmanediallo

Mandeng Tilo:
http://www.myspace.com/mandengtilo

Maher Cissoko:
http://www.myspace.com/mahercissoko


Sorry for the delay, took a while to do the blue clickies..then the computer turned itself off! Grrrr!...

Anyway...I hope you enjoy them all. I've fallen completely in love with much African music. It should be all over our radio and TV's in exactly the same way that Western music is.   

One world!


Lizzie :0)

PS...GREAT thread by the way Azizi, must be taking you ages to sort all this out. Well done! :0)

Subject: RE: African Music Threads & Posts
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 12 Jun 06 - 08:03 AM

AND....Azizi, Ayub's music was used for the soundtrack to 'The Constant Gardener' film recently. It is an excellent film which deals with the corruption within the huge Corporate Medical Companies and tells how they're using innocent people in Africa to test their new inventions on...In the film it was a vaccine for malaria.

It will really open up your eyes...and make you seethingly angry, which is of course what we all need to become, to stop these terrible things from happening in the first place!

I've got Ayub's CD and it's wonderful. My children LOVE it and my friends here it and go "WOW!! WHO is that?"

I had trouble tracking down his CD, but then someone gave me this link on the Radio 2 board and we ordered it from there. It's now one of our favourites. I wish he'd do more!!

http://www.realworldrecords.com/catalogue/titles/action.lasso?-response=framesetLink.html&-token.rwrID=cdrw42&-nothing

Hope that helps and I am SO glad that I've introduced you to him Azizi!

Take care....

Lots of love...

Lizzie :0)

Subject: RE: African Music Threads & Posts
From: Azizi
Date: 12 Jun 06 - 01:12 PM

Lizzie, I am so happy that I refreshed this thread.

Thanks so much for those links.

You are right about this music being soul enriching. And thanks to the Internet, it can be shared with everyone no matter where or who they are.

Positive vibrations and lots of love to you too!

Azizi

Subject: RE: African Music Threads & Posts
From: Kweku
Date: 13 Jun 06 - 06:09 AM

We have had a dynamic music arena in Ghana,from the 1950's calypso style music, to the 1970's to 80's highlife and the burger highlife of the 1990's and currently contemporary highlife and hiplife(rap + highlife).

The message too have moved from patriotic and decent songs to lyrics that leaves much to be desired. this has led to some music being banned from air-play on radios.

Ghanaian music too have moved from live band music to already-made instrumentals, and much of the work is done by sound engineers.

During the live band era,Ghanaian music was very much like jazz,with every musical instruments from the guitar to the dondo(local drum) and artists like E.T. Mensah,Pat Thomas,A.B. Crentsil,A.A.A.,Black Chinese,Frimpong,etc. giving us their best.

Subject: RE: African Music Threads & Posts
From: Azizi
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 09:47 AM

FYI, Guest Gwen and several other folks who live in South Africa have been discussing various recording artists in this Mudcat thread: Music of South Africa thread.

Among the artists that are noted in this thread are:

Sibongile Khumalo who "combines jazz with traditional African music, and also performs a lot of classical [music]"

Abdullah Ibrahim

Joe Nina

Hugh Maskela

Lucky Dube

Arthur Mafokate (solid hip-hop)

Freshlyground, Nthando (Afro-pop)

Zola, Judith Sephuma (gospel)

Zamajobe (Afro-pop/soul)

Skwatta Kamp, Kabelo (kwaito - hard-core township-based pop

In addition, Guest Gwen highly recommends the soundtrack to the movie "Amandla: A Revolution in Four-Part Harmony" which "tells the story of the role music played in the SA liberation struggle. On this soundtrack, you will find Sibongile Khumalo performing one of the anthems of that struggle - it is called "The Untold Story" - and she is accompanied only by a pianist. It will give you some idea of her power."

-snip-

I found various online references to Sibongile Khumalo. Here is one link to information about this South African artist:

http://www.music.org.za/artist.asp?id=99