BS: Inconvenient truths for Libs

Subject: RE: BS: Inconvenient truths for Libs
From: Wesley S
Date: 15 Jun 06 - 01:03 PM

Two sides of the same coin. Frick and Frack. Dumb and dumberer.

Subject: RE: BS: Inconvenient truths for Libs
From: Susu's Hubby
Date: 15 Jun 06 - 01:07 PM

Larry K,

Can't you just see it....

On election night, liberals the country over will be sitting and watching the election results. Their eyes will start to twitch, their neck muscles start jerking and then all of a sudden....their heads explode.

Just like in the movie "Scanners".

And in the following days, conservatives will be rejoicing for we will finally get social security reform, immigration reform, and all the other things that need to be put right in this country without the liberal obstructionists doing their usual thing.

"Happy days are here again!" (Well, this is a music site!)


Hubby

Subject: RE: BS: Inconvenient truths for Libs
From: Arne
Date: 15 Jun 06 - 01:08 PM

Larry K:

How than do both Republican Congressional candidates win?   Especially in California and the battleground state of Ohio?

Ummm, they were both "safe" heavily Republican districts???

The Iraq government said this find has turned the tide of the war.

We've turned so many corners, I'm starting to feel dizzy.

O'Reilly poll- over 60% of people agree with Ann Coulters tactics. Her book is Number 1 best seller.

O'Lielly poll ROFLAMO....

Coulter's not #1, FWIW, at least not right now:

Here

Hillary lost Iowa poll to John Edwards.   If she can't beat John Edwards....

You folks want Hillary. You salivate over the slimejobs you can slather all over her. I'm not fond of her myself.

Cheers,

Subject: RE: BS: Inconvenient truths for Libs
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Jun 06 - 01:16 PM

There are no real "liberals" or "conservatives" in the sense that you think of them, Hubby. It's convenient mythology, invented to divide you against other people and waste your energy in useless controversy.

Real people are complicated. They're liberal about one thing, and conservative about another. They are not walking stereotypes that fit the prevailing mythology concocted to fuel political debates.

Subject: RE: BS: Inconvenient truths for Libs
From: Susu's Hubby
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 11:15 AM

Hmmmmm...I've noticed several things about threads that offer differing viewpoints rather than those from the LW blogoshere.

It seems when those few threads, like this one, pop up, there's a lot of attacking the messenger but no real debate. Then the thread just seems to head to the bottomless pit.


Truth Hurts....

Shame.....



Hubby

Subject: RE: BS: Inconvenient truths for Libs
From: Peace
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 11:17 AM

People do the same thing you do, SH. Don't be surprised.

Subject: RE: BS: Inconvenient truths for Libs
From: Amos
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 11:55 AM

Fact: approval ratings in the 30's. Very inconvenient.

Fact: the administration has caused more deaths since 9-11 than were caused on 9-11. Sad. Truth hurts, but being blown up on your way to school, or while fetching water, hurts more.

Fact: national repute, internationally, at an all-time low. Sad.

Fact: national debt, for which we have no reserves, at an all-time high. Sad.

Fact: parties responsible for 9-11 have not been identified, or of identified have not been apprehended. Oh, except for the substitute guy, Moussaoui. Sad. Incompetence hurts.

It was well stated that 51% is NOT a mandate. Well, 36% is the opposite of a mandate. It's a counter-mandate to stop digging.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Inconvenient truths for Libs
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 12:55 PM

Word is that the Project for the New American Century is disbanding, closing their offices, and allowing their so-called "think-tank" to be absorbed by the larger American Enterprise Institute (another conservative "think-tank"). The reason they give is that the PNAC's mission of maintaining the United States as the world's sole superpower has been accomplished (a statement that tends to cause any thinking person's eyebrows to crawl swiftly up their forehead). But the actual reason (admitted in private, and very quietly) is that the people they relied on to do the job have made a pig's breakfast of the whole thing. Rumsfeld totally mismanaged the war on Iraq, Bush has turned out to be a idiot, and the American public is becoming increasingly aware of the large number of Republicans who have been caught involved in blatant corruption.

So the PNAC has gone upstairs to hide in a closet in the AEI offices, sulk, try to pull up their socks, and plan their next move.

Don Firth

P. S. So very sad (sob!)

Subject: RE: BS: Inconvenient truths for Libs
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 04:01 PM

Hubby - are you rejoicing that you'll also get (actually have gotten already):

- record budget deficits and national debt

- the largest expansion of the federal government in history

- government intrusion into citizen's lives (through wiretapping,
infiltration of groups, laws regarding personal lives)

- suspension of habeus corpus (for terrorists as defined by the government of course)

- overseas adventurism/police actions by the US Armed Forces

- outing of clandestine operatives

- etc...

Exactly what do "conservatives" stand for now?

Oh never mind... I know that they stand for supporting GWB even if he loads a truck full of puppies with a pitchfork*.

*stolen metaphor

Subject: RE: BS: Inconvenient truths for Libs
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 04:09 PM

More inconvenient truths...no matter how well you dress a complete fool, he is still a complete fool. Unprovoked aggression is still unprovoked aggression. And lies about WMDs are still lies.

Subject: RE: BS: Inconvenient truths for Libs
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 04:11 PM

The Hubster's just a "big government" kind of guy. He loves big government. That's why he's not a conservative...

Hear that, Hubster?

YOU'RE NOT A CONSERVATIVE

Subject: RE: BS: Inconvenient truths for Libs
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 04:15 PM

Just hating "liberals" is NOT, in itself, enough to qualify a person to be fairly described as a conservative. ;-D

Ann Coulter, for instance, is no conservative. She's an extreme rightwing radical. The Bush administration is also not conservative. They are extremely radical, both in foreign and domestic policy, as well as fisal policy.

Conservatism is naturally opposed to such radicalism.

Subject: RE: BS: Inconvenient truths for Libs
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 04:16 PM

Ahem! "fiscal policy", I meant to say...

Subject: RE: BS: Inconvenient truths for Libs
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 04:26 PM

GWB 'the decider' also increased the debt by more than all the past presidents from George Washington to Clinton.

Subject: RE: BS: Inconvenient truths for Libs
From: Amos
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 04:32 PM

Ya know, it is a shame there is so much inconvenient truth out there. Someone ought to do something to clean it up, maybe replace it with more convenient truths.

Some convenient truths I would like to see:

The new Administration has cut government waste and fraud down by 40% saving tens of billions of dollars.

The resurgence of constitutional pride and democratic principal has resulted in people from all walks of life actually knowing the Constitution and being able to recite the Declaration of Independence again.

The CIA and NSA have invented ways to be twice as effective in fiding correct intelligence about correct targets and have abandoned wasteful and unconstitutional options.

An Ecumenical Movement led by American liberals has resulted in an international Unified Churches of Humanity movement which has resulted in the brotherhood of the species becoming an international by-word and a cultural theme in Asia--including China--, Europe, the Middle East, Russia and Polynesia.

Western ingenuity has finally developed the Zero Point Energy brick, a device the size of a typewriter and capable of putting out 100 KWH/day. A Federal program is funding the distribution of these units to needy villages and farms all around the world, resulting in economic resurgence, massive desalination programs, self-reliance for food and new levels of human dignity in every region of Africa, the Middle East, India, Pakistan, South America, and China, while Americans are once again driving totheir heart's content without concern for negative energy impacts.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Inconvenient truths for Libs
From: Ron Davies
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 12:49 AM

Hubby--

Your allegations are "Truths"? Not likely. Au contraire.

It gets boring to refute you--your arguments are so, pardon the expression, pathetic, it's far too easy.

1) What is Al Gore doing about global warming? Trying to stir people up so they will put pressure on their elected reps to do something about it. (On the off chance that they're not like you-- selfish enough to seize any excuse to do nothing rather than change your lifestyle one whit.)

But somehow I think you knew that.

2) Rove: To prove perjury, you have to prove intent. Not easy. In fact, never likely. But Rove has been out of the loop for many months now. Many, including WSJ editorial writers, feel that his absence contributed to Bush's many recent missteps--e.g. the Harriet Maiers fiasco. So from the standpoint of the Bush opposition, it's been great to have him gone so long. No regrets. And please don't whine, as did the WSJ, about the unfairness of it all. If you can't stand the heat....


And so on. Your other points have equal validity--i.e. precious little.

Also, I note you haven't addressed my point about the War on Terror--exactly when it will be over.

You're not worth my time, so that's all I'll say now.

Have a nice day.



By the way, never have seen you in the music threads. You wouldn't be one of our delightful politics only posters now, would you?

Subject: RE: BS: Inconvenient truths for Libs
From: GUEST,Old Guy
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 09:27 AM

Keep up the good work Hubby. Keep 'em busy.

Subject: RE: BS: Inconvenient truths for Libs
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 11:15 AM

You're a big government kind of guy too, aren't you, Old Guy?

Subject: RE: BS: Inconvenient truths for Libs
From: Amos
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 12:37 PM

There are nine Senators and Representatives currently under investigation and/or indictment for corrupt practices of one sort or another.

Of these nine, two are Democrats, while seven are Republicans.

By this index, the corruption on Capitol Hill, in the Legislative branch at least, is 22.2% Democratic, and 87.8% Republican.

Any idea why this is so?


A

Subject: RE: BS: Inconvenient truths for Libs
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 01:33 PM

Some people see life in terms of "father knows best". They want a powerful male authority figure to lay down the law and run a tight ship. It is those people who instinctively support Big Government every time.

Other people do not see life in those terms. They are suspicious of powerful male authority figures. It is those people who question Big Government and don't trust it.

The Republicans have traditionally tended to appeal to the former group, and the Democrats to the latter, but it's a very subliminal kind of thing.

And it's amusing, in a sad sort of way, because BOTH the Republicans AND the Democrats, once they are in office become...Big Government!

And they are equally untrustworthy.

Subject: RE: BS: Inconvenient truths for Libs
From: Barry Finn
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 02:52 PM

Hi Amos
That percentage above you gave is near the same as the percentages that Reps recieve from big oil companies, this year is 84% to16%.

"Since 1990, Big Oil has given more than $190 million to members of Congress and 75% ($142,635,314!) of those donations have gone to Republicans.1 That money has guaranteed energy policy that serves the oil industry rather than the public interest".
see-
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=1872&id=8061-3971286-T_0gXbs9.saWNOsu3jQz0w&t=5

Funny how that scale keeps tipping more towards one than the other.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Inconvenient truths for Libs
From: GUEST,Woody
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 11:12 PM

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/08/AR2006060800627.html

Analysis: Iraq PM Gets Double Good News

By SALLY BUZBEE
The Associated Press
Thursday, June 8, 2006; 3:50 PM

CAIRO, Egypt -- It was a day filled with rare good news for Iraq's new prime minister: Not only did he announce the death of the country's most-feared terror leader, he also won approval for new ministers on security, charged with stopping the violence in Iraq.

With that rapid series of breakthroughs, Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki firmly established his control, setting the stage for what he pledges will be a sharp crackdown to restore order. U.S. officials seemed overjoyed, keenly aware that their ability to trim the number of U.S. troops depends on his success.

The three posts that al-Maliki named Thursday are crucial to that effort _ the defense minister to run the army, the interior minister to run the national police and the national security minister to advise the prime minister.

The posts had been deadlocked for weeks by squabbling among Shiites, Sunnis and Kurds. But the new ministers were quickly approved by Parliament on Thursday, just minutes after al-Maliki announced the death of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the leader of al-Qaida in Iraq.

U.S. military and Iraqi officials said the timing was coincidental; indeed, Iraqi political leaders said the final agreement on the new ministers came late Wednesday, before news of al-Zarqawi's death was known.

If anything, that made the achievement even more impressive.

In the end, al-Maliki _ widely viewed as a pragmatist _ apparently was able to break the Sunni-Shiite-Kurdish logjam over the posts by picking technocrats, less likely to aggravate either old, Saddam Hussein-era prejudices or the country's virulent new sectarian divides.

The Interior Ministry was the hottest button.

Sunnis had accused the previous interior minister, a Shiite, of allowing Shiite death squads to operate from inside his ministry, and were determined to get a more neutral figure this time.

The new interior minister, Jawad al-Bolani, is also a Shiite but _ as an independent member of the dominant Shiite United Iraqi Alliance _ is considered so neutral that no Sunnis objected to his name. Almost a political unknown, he had worked, he said, as an engineer in the Iraqi air force until 1999.

The new defense minister, Iraqi Army Gen. Abdul-Qader Mohammed Jassim al-Mifarji, is a Sunni Arab unaffiliated with any party. He was thrown out of the military and Saddam's Baath Party in 1991 after he criticized the invasion of Kuwait and received a seven-year prison term, he said.

"As a defense minister I will work for all Iraqis and will not work according to my tribal, religious and ethnic background," he said after he was named.The new national security minister, Sherwan al-Waili, who will advise the prime minister on security matters, also is a Shiite but also considered neutral.

With those three key Cabinet posts now filled, al-Maliki can presumably turn to the still-overwhelming tasks ahead _ including reining in militias and getting Iraqi forces trained and cohesive enough to slowly take over from the U.S. military.

For an Iraqi public that craves security, that would be good news. And al-Maliki's announcement of the death of al-Zarqawi could create a well of good will and support, just what he needs to take on other, difficult security tasks like shutting down militias.

Yet despite Thursday's success, no one expects the way to be easy for al-Maliki, a veteran insider in Iraq's oldest Shiite political party who spent years in exile after receiving a death sentence from Saddam's regime.

While his more pragmatic stance may have helped resolve the Cabinet stalemate, al-Maliki still will need much help from both his fellow Iraqis and other Arabs, all working to "take advantage of the gap left behind by al-Zarqawi to gain back his followers," said one political analyst, Mohammed El-Sayed of the Al-Ahram Center for Strategic Studies in Cairo.

Thursday's events make clear that al-Maliki is determined to try.

Sally Buzbee, the AP's Chief of Middle East News, reports often from Iraq.

Subject: RE: BS: Inconvenient truths for Libs
From: Ron Davies
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 09:06 AM

Woody (AKA Old Guy)--

"rare" good news. From 8 June. Haven't you been able to find anything more recent than that--and from a reputable source like the Washington Post, not your normal Fox News, etc? If I can quote the Wall St Journal in support of my views, you should always be able to find something left of center to support yours.

We will treat your postings with all the respect they deserve.

Subject: RE: BS: Inconvenient truths for Libs
From: Ron Davies
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 09:37 AM

Yes, I recognize that your article is from the Washington Post. All I'm saying is keep it up--citing--more recent--articles from similar mainstream sources--not Fox News etc. Although, as Steven Colbert pointed out, Fox News does in fact, as Doug R indicated, give both sides of a story--the president's side and the vice president's side.

Subject: RE: BS: Inconvenient truths for Libs
From: GUEST,Woody
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 10:46 AM

http://www.canada.com/reginaleaderpost/news/viewpoints/story.html?id=4d06ab20-8d17-4cf2-b82e-37615d5b717f

Mood of hope in Iraq

The Leader-Post
Published: Saturday, June 17, 2006

As the U.S. announced that the number of its military personnel killed in Iraq had reached 2,500 this week, an unexpected mood was in the air -- optimism.

Buoyed by the June 7 air strike that killed Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, al-Qaida's leader in Iraq, U.S. and Iraqi forces have since carried out almost 400 raids on insurgent fighters, seizing 28 "significant" collections of arms. There has also been a small decline in violence in recent days.

But the U.S. and Iraqi governments say the best news is contained in a purported al-Qaida document found in an alleged hideout sometime in the past three weeks. The Iraqi government released a transcript this week in which al-Qaida leaders say their terror campaign is in "bleak" shape because of an increase in Iraqi forces trained by the U.S., a large number of arrests, weapons seizures and financial problems.

The document suggested a change of tactics might be needed that could include involving the U.S. in a "war against another country".

While recent events have been encouraging, many other supposed "turning points" have come and gone:

- Saddam Hussein's military quickly collapsed after the March 20, 2003, invasion, with Baghdad in U.S. hands by April 9;

- President George W. Bush confidently declared on May 1, 2003, that "major combat operations in Iraq have ended";

- Saddam was captured in December 2003;

- After five months of negotiations following

December's general elections, Iraq's parliament approved a new government in May.

Throughout, the bloody insurgency by Saddam loyalists and al-Qaida has continued and more than 30,000 Iraqi civilians are believed to have been killed since the invasion.

Still, perhaps a dash of optimism is what the world needs on Iraq -- so long as everyone remains realistic about the tough days that undoubtedly lie ahead.
© The Leader-Post (Regina) 2006

Subject: RE: BS: Inconvenient truths for Libs
From: Ron Davies
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 10:53 AM

" Many other supposed 'turning points' have come and gone."

The proof of the pudding....

Today, 10 have been kidnapped in Baghdad--from a bakery, yet. Things do not appear under control, I'd say.

An inconvenient truth---and not for liberals.

Subject: RE: BS: Inconvenient truths for Libs
From: GUEST,Woody
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 11:27 AM

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/16/AR2006061601265.htmlNew Tape Says Zarqawi Death 'Great Loss'

By SALAH NASRAWI
The Associated Press
Friday, June 16, 2006; 6:40 PM

CAIRO, Egypt -- A key insurgency leader in Iraq said the U.S. killing of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi was a "great loss," but one that will strengthen the militants' determination, according to an audio tape broadcast Friday.

The Al-Jazeera network said the voice on the tape was that of Abu Abdullah Rashid al-Baghdadi, the head of the Mujahedeen Shura Council, which groups five Iraqi insurgent organizations including al-Qaida in Iraq. But the authenticity of the tape couldn't immediately be verified.
        

"This is a message to the enemies of God, the crusaders, the rejectionists and the renegades," the voice says, referring respectively to U.S.-led forces, Shiites, and Sunnis in the government. "The martyrdom of the leader will not change the arena of confrontation. Rather, it will become fiercer and stronger."

The tape appeared to be an attempt to rally support for the insurgents after last week's killing of al-Zarqawi, the leader of al-Qaida in Iraq who died when U.S. forces bombed the house north of Baghdad where he was meeting his advisers.

"This leader (al-Zarqawi) has laid the foundations and his great loss will not lead to weakness. He will remain a symbol for all the mujahideen, who will take strength from his steadfastness," the speaker says.

Significantly, the speaker does not mention the man that the insurgent group has chosen to replace al-Zarqawi _ Abu Ayub al-Masri, also known as Abu Hamza al-Muhajer. The lack of such a reference may suggest that al-Baghdadi does not support him.

Some terror experts mentioned al-Baghdadi as the possible successor of al-Zarqawi, but the U.S. military believe al-Qaida in Iraq is now led by al-Masri, an Egyptian-born terrorist who trained with al-Zarqawi in Afghanistan.

Al-Baghdadi is believed to be a former officer in Saddam's army, or its elite Republican Guard, who has worked closely with al-Zarqawi since the overthrow of the Iraqi dictator in April 2003

Subject: RE: BS: Inconvenient truths for Libs
From: Ron Davies
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 01:07 PM

Main question is the degree to which "the insurgency" is irrelevant. Is there enough bad blood, because of all the (continuing) killings, between Shiites and Sunnis that the civil war will continue regardless of the titular "head of al Queda in Iraq"? The only way the new Iraq government can prevent this is to ensure that all the official government forces are perceived as even-handed by the Sunnis---that, is that they are not riddled with Shiite militia. And, as I said, "de-Baathification" will have to be severely curtailed. Reconciliation is the only way.

Subject: RE: BS: Inconvenient truths for Libs
From: Amos
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 04:06 PM

I guess the most inconvenient truth for neo-cons and their ilk is that the entire repute of this Presidency now hinges on whether one Iraqi politician, Prime Minister Maliki, can cover his ass for him by pulling the shreds of the country together. The reason this is so ois because the invasion of Iraq was an act of supreme arrogance and ignorance, in which the real ground situation was totally misestimated by an incompetent Administration.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Inconvenient truths for Libs
From: CarolC
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 04:27 PM

And we also need to remember that neo-cons should not in any way be equated with "conservatives".

Neo-Cons are the opposite of conservative.

Subject: RE: BS: Inconvenient truths for Libs
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 04:36 PM

If two billion people do an insane and stupid thing, it is still an insane and stupid thing.

Art

Subject: RE: BS: Inconvenient truths for Libs
From: Greg F.
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 05:21 PM

Neo-Cons are the opposite of conservative.

Now, if only the conservatives will realize & admit this, and the American Gutless Wonder Party (a.k.a. Dems) can remember what they're supposed to stand for- There may be a sliver of hope.

But I'm not holding my breath. Muscular Stupidity is currently ascendant
in the U.S. of A.

Subject: RE: BS: Inconvenient truths for Libs
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 07:38 AM

News today not looking any better

Subject: RE: BS: Inconvenient truths for Libs
From: GUEST,Old Guy
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 10:22 AM

Well quit doing it Art.

Subject: RE: BS: Inconvenient truths for Libs
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 11:20 AM

"If two billion people do an insane and stupid thing, it is still an insane and stupid thing."

Yeah, like...shaving....or...watching "Survivor"...or gambling at the casinos.... ;-)