BS: Moslims non-violence- Kill, burn,destroy

Subject: RE: BS: Moslims non-violence- Kill, burn,destroy
From: beardedbruce
Date: 19 Sep 06 - 10:22 AM

from the above clickie-

"One thing should be kept in mind, however: The often violent protests that erupted in the Muslim world in the wake of the cartoon controversy have often been manipulated and fuelled by Islamists. The bile currently being flung at the pope is no different.

But the attacks against the pope are especially grotesque. The severe criticism -- often coupled with threats of violence -- directed at the speech held last Tuesday by Benedict XVI is not just an attack on the head of the Catholic Church. The malicious twisting of the pope's words and the absurd allegations made by representatives of Islam represent a frontal attack on open religious and philosophical dialogue.

That so many in the Muslim world joined the protests against the pope merely show just how influential Islamist extremist groups have become. The political goal of the Islamists is clear: any dispute between Christianity and Islam must obey the rules handed down by political Islamism."

Subject: RE: BS: Moslims non-violence- Kill, burn,destroy
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Sep 06 - 11:14 AM

There is going to have to be an accounting with the Islamic fundamentalists sooner or later. I think it would be wise to have it sooner. Either that, or let the moderates back into power.

I am tired of hearing about Mohammed. He was another shyster out doing stuff in the name of a god, much the way other religions have their representatives who interpret what the diety 'really meant to say'. If god is so powerful, s/he'll let you know direct.

People who talk about religious rights should also know that they have the right to keep it to themselves. And I wish they would.

Subject: RE: BS: Moslims non-violence- Kill, burn,destroy
From: robomatic
Date: 19 Sep 06 - 01:26 PM

You'd be a little bit more convincing if you had the guts to use your name.

Subject: RE: BS: Moslims non-violence- Kill, burn,destroy
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Sep 06 - 02:53 PM

That makes no difference here because Guests are welcome. Names mean nothing.

Subject: RE: BS: Moslims non-violence- Kill, burn,destroy
From: Rasener
Date: 19 Sep 06 - 03:15 PM

They help Guest especially as some guests are just shit stirrers. Are you?

Subject: RE: BS: Moslims non-violence- Kill, burn,destroy
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Sep 06 - 03:18 PM

Nope.

Subject: RE: BS: Moslims non-violence- Kill, burn,destroy
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Sep 06 - 03:21 PM

"There is going to have to be an accounting with the Islamic fundamentalists sooner or later. I think it would be wise to have it sooner. Either that, or let the moderates back into power.

I am tired of hearing about Mohammed. He was another shyster out doing stuff in the name of a god, much the way other religions have their representatives who interpret what the diety 'really meant to say'. If god is so powerful, s/he'll let you know direct.

People who talk about religious rights should also know that they have the right to keep it to themselves. And I wish they would."

"That makes no difference here because Guests are welcome. Names mean nothing."

They are the posts I made.


To which you say

"They help Guest especially as some guests are just shit stirrers. Are you?"

How does stating an opinion make me a shit stirrer? The above remarks are certainly less 'shit-stirring' than a few threads YOU have started lately. Have a nice day.

Subject: RE: BS: Moslims non-violence- Kill, burn,destroy
From: Rasener
Date: 19 Sep 06 - 03:50 PM

I din't say you were Guest. I only asked.

Anyway like you, I am thoroughly fed up with the behaviour of religious groups and wish they would keep it to themselves.

My father was a devout Christadelphian. He did try to talk to me about them, but I wasn't interested as I have no desire to want to know. So I just wished him well with his religion and asked him to keep it to himself and his religious brothers and sisters. That he did and that was fine. irrespective of what I thought about his religion, if he wanted a lift to a service, I would take him, but wait outside or pick him up later.

Subject: RE: BS: Moslims non-violence- Kill, burn,destroy
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Sep 06 - 03:53 PM

I hear that. I truly wish that those people who have a religion would keep it to themselves. Start a thread and laud it. Wax poetic. Glorify their god. Do as they choose. Quietly and alone.

Subject: RE: BS: Moslims non-violence- Kill, burn,destroy
From: Wesley S
Date: 19 Sep 06 - 04:02 PM

Guest - Just try starting a thread about religion. Quietly and alone. The usual suspects will come in and trash it.

Subject: RE: BS: Moslims non-violence- Kill, burn,destroy
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Sep 06 - 04:05 PM

Ask that the thread be moderated. (Get an atheist to do it.) Rasmussen has had a successful Kitchen Table thread for a few months. No reason there couldn't be one about religion that doesn't drag in those who wish to mess it up.

Subject: RE: BS: Moslims non-violence- Kill, burn,destroy
From: beardedbruce
Date: 22 Sep 06 - 11:55 AM

Tolerance: A Two-Way Street

By Charles Krauthammer
Friday, September 22, 2006; Page A17

Religious fanatics, regardless of what name they give their jealous god, invariably have one thing in common: no sense of humor. Particularly about themselves. It's hard to imagine Torquemada taking a joke well.

Today's Islamists seem to have not even a sense of irony. They fail to see the richness of the following sequence. The pope makes a reference to a 14th-century Byzantine emperor's remark about Islam imposing itself by the sword, and to protest this linking of Islam and violence:

· In the West Bank and Gaza, Muslims attack seven churches.

· In London, the ever-dependable radical Anjem Choudary tells demonstrators at Westminster Cathedral that the pope is now condemned to death.

· In Mogadishu, Somali religious leader Abubukar Hassan Malin calls on Muslims to "hunt down" the pope. The pope not being quite at hand, they do the next best thing: shoot dead, execution-style, an Italian nun who worked in a children's hospital.

"How dare you say Islam is a violent religion? I'll kill you for it" is not exactly the best way to go about refuting the charge. But of course, refuting is not the point here. The point is intimidation.

First Salman Rushdie. Then the false Newsweek report about Koran-flushing at Guantanamo Bay. Then the Danish cartoons. And now a line from a scholarly disquisition on rationalism and faith given in German at a German university by the pope.

And the intimidation succeeds: politicians bowing and scraping to the mob over the cartoons; Saturday's craven New York Times editorial telling the pope to apologize; the plague of self-censorship about anything remotely controversial about Islam -- this in a culture in which a half-naked pop star blithely stages a mock crucifixion as the highlight of her latest concert tour.

In today's world, religious sensitivity is a one-way street. The rules of the road are enforced by Islamic mobs and abjectly followed by Western media, politicians and religious leaders.

The fact is that all three monotheistic religions have in their long histories wielded the sword. The Book of Joshua is knee-deep in blood. The real Hanukkah story, so absurdly twinned (by calendric accident) with the Christian festival of peace, is about a savage insurgency and civil war.

Christianity more than matched that lurid history with the Crusades, an ecumenical blood bath that began with the slaughter of Jews in the Rhineland, a kind of preseason warm-up to the featured massacres to come against the Muslims, with the sacking of the capital of Byzantium (the Fourth Crusade) thrown in for good measure.

And Islam, of course, spread with great speed from Arabia across the Mediterranean and into Europe. It was not all benign persuasion. After all, what were Islamic armies doing at Poitiers in 732 and the gates of Vienna in 1683? Tourism?

However, the inconvenient truth is that after centuries of religious wars, Christendom long ago gave it up. It is a simple and undeniable fact that the violent purveyors of monotheistic religion today are self-proclaimed warriors for Islam who shout "God is great" as they slit the throats of infidels -- such as those of the flight crews on Sept. 11, 2001 -- and are then celebrated as heroes and martyrs.

Just one month ago, two journalists were kidnapped in Gaza and were released only after their forced conversion to Islam. Where were the protests in the Islamic world at that act -- rather than the charge -- of forced conversion?

Where is the protest over the constant stream of vilification of Christianity and Judaism issuing from the official newspapers, mosques and religious authorities of Arab nations? When Sheik 'Atiyyah Saqr issues a fatwa declaring Jews "apes and pigs"? When Sheik Abd al-Aziz Fawzan al-Fawzan, professor of Islamic law, says on Saudi TV that "someone who denies Allah, worships Christ, son of Mary, and claims that God is one-third of a trinity. . . . Don't you hate the faith of such a polytheist?"

Where are the demonstrations, where are the parliamentary resolutions, where are the demands for retraction when the Mufti Sheik Ali Gum'a incites readers of al-Ahram, the Egyptian government daily, against "the true and hideous face of the blood-suckers . . . who prepare [Passover] matzos from human blood"?

The pope gives offense and the Mujaheddin al-Shura Council in Iraq declares that it "will break up the cross, spill the liquor and impose the 'jizya' [head] tax; then the only thing acceptable is conversion or the sword." This to protest the accusation that Islam might be spread by the sword.

As I said. No sense of irony.

[e-mail]

Subject: RE: BS: Moslims non-violence- Kill, burn,destroy
From: beardedbruce
Date: 22 Sep 06 - 01:06 PM

By SARAH EL DEEB, Associated Press Writer
2 hours, 3 minutes ago

JERUSALEM - Thousands of Muslim worshippers staged marches against Pope Benedict XVI in Jerusalem, the West Bank and Gaza on Friday, waving green Hamas banners and denouncing him as a "coward" and an "agent of the Americans."

The demonstrations in the Middle East, as well as smaller rallies in Pakistan and Malaysia, came as Benedict invited representatives of Muslim countries to meet Monday at his summer residence, the       Vatican said.

The Vatican has been seeking to defuse anger across the Muslim world that followed the pope's remarks about Islam last week in Germany.

Benedict cited the words of a Byzantine emperor who characterized some of the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad as "evil and inhuman," particularly "his command to spread by the sword the faith."

The pope said Sunday that he was "deeply sorry" about the reactions to his remarks and that they did not reflect his own opinions. Earlier this week, he said his comments were open to misinterpretation and that he had "deep respect" for Islam.

He has not issued a direct apology, as demanded by Muslim leaders. Earlier in the week, protesters attacked seven churches in the West Bank and Gaza, causing little damage and no injuries.

At Islam's third-holiest shrine, the Al Aqsa Mosque compound in Jerusalem, hundreds of worshippers hoisted black flags and banners that read, "Conquering Rome is the answer." Protesters chanted, "The army of Islam will return." The march dispersed peacefully.

In the West Bank city of Nablus, Hamas supporters took to the streets after prayers, shouting slogans against the pope and waving Hamas flags. Raising their hands to the sky, the more than 2,000 protesters chanted: "We put up with hunger, detention and occupation, but we won't put up with the offending the prophet. We sacrifice our lives for you prophet."

Marching in the streets of Nablus, the protesters called the pope a "coward and agent of the Americans."

In northern Gaza, more than 1,000 Islamic Jihad supporters shouted in praise of the prophet, and waved black flags. Khader Habib, an Islamic Jihad leader, told the crowd that the pope's comments "indicate that this pope doesn't understand Islam or the prophet."

In Ramallah, hundreds of Hamas supporters marched around the city center.

Hundreds of radical Islamists chanting "Down with the pope" rallied in several Pakistani cities.

More than 500 supporters of a coalition of six Islamic parties, called Mutahida Majlis-e-Amal, or MMA, demanded the pope's removal and accused him of supporting the policies of President Bush.

"If I get hold of the pope, I will hang him," Hafiz Hussain Ahmed, a senior MMA leader, told protesters in Islamabad, who carried placards reading "Terrorist, extremist Pope be hanged!" and "Down with Muslims' enemies!"

In Karachi, another MMA leader, Ghafoor Ahmed, accused the pope of wanting to force "Christians and Muslims against each other."

"We condemn the pope. We will not tolerate insulting remarks against Islam or our Prophet Muhammad," Ahmed said at a protest that drew about 300 people.

Another 200 rallied in the eastern city of Lahore, while several dozen protested in Multan.

The demonstrations came a day after 1,000 clerics and religious leaders met in Lahore and called for the pope's removal and warned the West of consequences if it didn't change its stance regarding Islam.

Thursday's meeting was organized by radical Islamic Jamaat al-Dawat group, which runs schools, colleges and medical clinics. In April, Washington put the group on a list of terrorist organizations for its alleged links with militants fighting in the Indian part of       Kashmir.

After the meeting, a statement was issued demanding the West "change its stance regarding Islam (or) it will face severe consequences." It did not elaborate.

It also said that jihad was not terrorism and that "Islam was not propagated with the sword."

Malaysia's opposition Pan-Malaysian Islamic Party staged demonstrations outside mosques nationwide, calling for the pope to fully retract his remarks. In Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia's largest city, some 150 party members chanted "Stop the insults" and held a banner that read "We Muslims are peace-loving people."

Subject: RE: BS: Moslims non-violence- Kill, burn,destroy
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Sep 06 - 01:10 PM

It is time for a showdown with Islam's more radical leaders and followers. Islam continues to spew hatred. They are not followers of their prophet. They are followers of sick men with sick agendas. They deserve no apology. They deserve contempt.

Subject: RE: BS: Moslims non-violence- Kill, burn,destroy
From: beardedbruce
Date: 22 Sep 06 - 01:10 PM

"and that "Islam was not propagated with the sword." "

Just axes, bows, arrows, and clubs, I guess...




Jihad -circa 640-740 CE

"Soon after Muhammad's death in 633 AD Arab raiders pushed out of the Arabian peninsula and within 100 years they had cut and burned their way across North Africa to the Atlantic, north through the Iberian peninsula across the Pyrenees into southern France where they were repulsed by Charles Martel, King of the Franks, at Tours in 732 AD. Islam's armies also pushed into the Byzantine Empire, across the Middle East, and then in the 8th and 9th centuries they overran Persia, Afghanistan and northwest India. The march of Islam was stopped by the Mongols and Turks who destroyed the Islamic empire. The Turks adopted Islam and continued its spread across Anatolia and Armenia, over the defeated imperial city of Constantinople into the Balkans, twice reaching the gates of Vienna in the 17th century, from which they were miraculously repulsed.

Islam divides mankind into believers and non-believers. The former are "the best of nations" (6) and the latter are "the vilest of animals" (7) The parts of the world where Islam prevails is called "House of Islam" (dar al-Islam) and those areas which non-believers control is known as "the House of War" (dar al-harb) because war is what it takes to subdue it. Non-believers are divided into two groups, namely pagans and Peoples of the Book (Christians and Jews because they relied on books, i.e. the Torah and the Gospels). In early Islam the pagans were offered the choice of converting or being put to the sword. Most converted. Christians and Jews, however, were treated differently. Upon surrender without a struggle and in exchange for protection of their lives and property, they entered into a contract (dhimma) with their overlords, minimum conditions of which were 1) submission to Islamic rule; 2) admission of their own inferiority; and 3) payment of the capitation or head tax (jizya) (8) In addition the local rulers imposed whatever other limitations or indignities they wished, such as distinctive clothing, boots and head gear, restricted living areas, limited use of riding animals etc and other indignities designed to compel conversion to Islam and transfer of wealth to Muslims."