Kate Rusby, 'You belong to me'

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby, 'You belong to me'
From: GUEST,Crazy Man Michael
Date: 08 Aug 07 - 03:17 PM

"And I've had far better band names than that."

ahhhh...but none so appropriate.....

"Because it's not and never has been about me"

but thy name and ego are writ large upon this thread...as I said earlier you have once more succeeded in riling up the mobs at large, once more. Well Done!

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby, 'You belong to me'
From: gnu
Date: 08 Aug 07 - 03:49 PM

T R O, LL I N G, M O U T H. Trolling mouth, .... c'mon, you know the words boys and girls....

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby, 'You belong to me'
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 08 Aug 07 - 03:58 PM

This thread could be nominated for Mudcat's 'Funniest ever' (Or most tee-jus, depending on which side one's funnybone is buttered).

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby, 'You belong to me'
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 08 Aug 07 - 04:04 PM

It's not funny at all and ought to be addressing profound issues.
Trouble is, most contributors are far to thick to recognise what they are.
Anyway, I said it was tee-jus many posts ago.
The pub will be infinitely more interesting.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby, 'You belong to me'
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 08 Aug 07 - 04:09 PM

Ah, a gnu.

I'm a gnu—I'm a gnu
The g-nicest work of g-nature in the zoo
I'm a gnu—how do you do?
You really oughtta g-know w-who's w-who

Flanders & Swann did mention you weren't all that bright.
Y'see, the trolls ain't arrived yet.
(That would be madlizziecornish and uncleboko and their many aliases).

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby, 'You belong to me'
From: gnu
Date: 08 Aug 07 - 04:18 PM

There it is. Thanks for taking the time to confirm I was talking about you. At least you know you are as stunned as a bat. Goodbye.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby, 'You belong to me'
From: GUEST,Crazy Man Michael
Date: 08 Aug 07 - 04:21 PM

We don't agree with whats'er face so we be all thick in't 'ead,well some of us have heard of Flanders and Swann and look,she's talking about imaginary trolls...hell she's even got names for them it seems.....cooking sherry does that you know...*LOL*

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby, 'You belong to me'
From: Rusty Dobro
Date: 08 Aug 07 - 04:33 PM

Now that the silliness seems to have run its course, may I revert to when we were all very young, at 4.11pm on 7/8, when I for one learnt that:

'In mainland Britain there are two academically-recognised dialects.
Lowland Scots and Yorkshire Dales.'

No troll, no axe to grind, nothing intended except to clarify the point: what disqualifies all the other commonly accepted dialects from actually being dialects? Five minutes on Google gave me references to East Midlands, Lincolnshire, London, Geordie, West Country, Leicestershire, Nottingham and Derbyshire dialects, all on the BBC alone, and an AS level study course, presumably written by an academic which dealt in detail with various 'dialects'.

I grew up thinking that my country relatives spoke (and sang) in a Suffolk dialect. So many local words, most now largely out of use - more than just an accent, surely?

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby, 'You belong to me'
From: GUEST,Crazy Man Michael
Date: 08 Aug 07 - 04:46 PM

I'm from Derbyshire originally, and too right there's an East Midlands dialect, as I said somewhere further back there, the dialect is what is spoken and the accent is what is used to speak that dialect....and if certain people from North Yorkshire want to argue with the Oxford English Dictionary, far be it from me to stop them.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby, 'You belong to me'
From: GUEST,Fadge Boy
Date: 08 Aug 07 - 04:52 PM

'Derby born and Derby bred,
Strong in the arm and thick in the head.'

No, offence, CMM, though we'll raht it dahn the twitchle if yers gorra mo.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby, 'You belong to me'
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 08 Aug 07 - 05:17 PM

No it isn't.
Liverpool? Jesus Christ.
The 'uncleboko' troll printed out swathes of my CV the other day.
No idea why but I'm surprised you missed it.
. . . since you have little better to do.



David Crystal, Linguistics Professor at Bangor, said in the Cambridge Encyclopedia of the English Language:

Varieties of language can be distinguished not only by their vocabulary and grammar, but also by differences in phonology. Where distinctions are limited to phonology, the term accent is often used instead of dialect.

Using this definition, Professor Crystal defined only two true dialects in mainland Britain, Yorkshire Dales and Lowland Scots.

Obviously, many accents think they're bigger than that and have equipped themselves with gunboats and small navies. Their aim is to become dialects and even languages.

I am merely quoting the current academic definition and don't, otherwise, give a toss.

Just go ahead and invent as many dialects as you like.

I thank you.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby, 'You belong to me'
From: Captain Ginger
Date: 08 Aug 07 - 05:19 PM

Well, having watched the YouTube clip, I can only comment that the song is saccharine, tin-pan alley pap, and the delivery does no justice to Ms Rusby's talents. It certainly isn't my cup of tea.
If you want to see someone doing real justice to a contemporary ditty, I can recommend Spiers and Boden doing Tom Waits' 'Innocent When You Dream'. It's on YouTube if you look for it.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby, 'You belong to me'
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 08 Aug 07 - 05:28 PM

Innocent When You Dream

Ha!
Appropriate too.
'The bats are in the belfry . . .'

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby, 'You belong to me'
From: Rusty Dobro
Date: 08 Aug 07 - 05:31 PM

Thank you for your courteous reply, Diane.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby, 'You belong to me'
From: GUEST,Crazy Man Michael
Date: 08 Aug 07 - 05:50 PM

Do you see what I mean...? and there's whole threads of her nonsense. If she's not insulting people's musical tastes, she's insulting the people. She'd make a tee-totaler into a drunk, I swear.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby, 'You belong to me'
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 08 Aug 07 - 06:15 PM

>>>>>>>>>>>David Crystal, Linguistics Professor at Bangor, said in the Cambridge Encyclopedia of the English Language:

Varieties of language can be distinguished not only by their vocabulary and grammar, but also by differences in phonology. Where distinctions are limited to phonology, the term accent is often used instead of dialect.

Using this definition, Professor Crystal defined only two true dialects in mainland Britain, Yorkshire Dales and Lowland Scots.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
WRONG yet again Diane!!!!!!
Want a list of dialects Diane?
Includes many such as Edinburgh, Cumbria, Liverpool etc etc.
CRYSTAL clear I would say!

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby, 'You belong to me'
From: van lingle
Date: 08 Aug 07 - 07:18 PM

diane, you are the malt vinegar on my freedom fries.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby, 'You belong to me'
From: harpmolly
Date: 08 Aug 07 - 10:00 PM

LOL!

This thread really is surreal. I wanted to pop back in and quickly assert that 1) I'm not a particular fan of this song, though I am of KR in general; and 2) I find it hilarious that the ersatz Diane Easby has spent half the thread bitching about how people HERE erroneously claim that KR "represents" English music, and yet there was no such claim made. The first notion of the concept was in Diane's own post of 3:46 am.

So it seems to me that Diane has knowingly hijacked this thread into a confrontation about whether KR represents English music, irrespective of a reader or poster's feelings about the SPECIFIC SONG discussed. She seems to have the opinion that any unsuspecting schmo who happens upon Kate's music online will immediately form a horribly skewed impression of English music as a whole. All I can say is, if the schmo in question is that narrow-minded and lazy, who cares what opinion they form?

I can't wait until Kate's new album comes out next month. Then we'll have a whole new source of material to trample and spit on. Jesus friggin' Christ, people, she's not Mussolini, she's a damn folk musician!

Why am I allowing myself to get sucked into this? Kate doesn't need me to defend her. She got the measure of the Folk Police some time ago, and has come to the realization that the bloated self-importance of critics like Diane needn't cause her any more pain. People who like her albums buy them. People who don't, don't. She's not Eliza Carthy, and she's not Nic Jones, and she's not whoever the hell we all think she should be. Get over yourself, Miss Easby.

Charmingly yours,

Molly

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby, 'You belong to me'
From: Big Mick
Date: 08 Aug 07 - 10:25 PM

This is why I love you, Molly............LOL!!!!

Mick

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby, 'You belong to me'
From: harpmolly
Date: 08 Aug 07 - 10:37 PM

Awww...I've gone bright red :)

M

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby, 'You belong to me'
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 09 Aug 07 - 02:22 AM

As I said, far too much to expect peeps to actually read what's written. Those plopping pigeons have been by again.

she's a damn folk musician

No I'm not.
The very word 'f*lk', meaningless and abused as it is, is why most people fail the grasp the faintest notion of what it actually is.
Should be binned forthwith.
And, as mentioned, I haven't done a paid gig for decades.

Want a list of dialects?

No. I've already quoted the academically accepted list of two mainland Britain dialects. kR is singing a shit song in her native Barnsley accent. It's hard to know why.

horribly skewed impression of English music

It's not just the damaging nonsense of flagging up recordings of fakesong imitations such as this. A US radio station was at it the other day, peddling pop band SoH as though it were 'English music'. It bloody well isn't.

You lot might be content to wallow in a morass of MOR, R2-generated pap indistinguishable from the rest of the mainstream shit. Some even talk of 'f*lk crossover hits'. All around my bleedin' hat on a day trip to Bangor, presumably. I won't be ceasing any time soon from urging everyone to come away (Melinda) and bang the door very tight shut.

A couple of nights ago someone started a thread just to get away from this lowest common denominator dumbing down on what CDs to lend to a newcomer. Should be an entrance test before anyone is permitted even to open their mouths about English music. Define your subject matter before you speak. Ha! Some hope.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby, 'You belong to me'
From: Kampervan
Date: 09 Aug 07 - 02:36 AM

O.K., I've been following this thread since it started and one of the things that seems to be missing is a description/definition of 'English music'.

Would someone like to oblige?

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby, 'You belong to me'
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 09 Aug 07 - 02:45 AM

No different from the tradarts of any nation or culture: it's local music with a sense of roots, place and community.
Not mass-produced pap that's undergone cultural ethnic cleansing.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby, 'You belong to me'
From: harpmolly
Date: 09 Aug 07 - 02:48 AM

Hmmm...odd, that. I would argue that "English music" could be defined as ANY music either composed or performed by someone FROM ENGLAND. I know that doesn't fit your extremely narrow definition, but hey, you're also the one asking us to "define our subject matter". If you want to impose your narrow views on a specific genre, be my guest, but "English" and "music" are both pretty broad terms.

And I find it quite funny that you complain of no one reading "what's written" but in the very next paragraph, you misinterpret my words. I was referring to Kate Rusby as a "damn folk musician", not yourself. As for "what is folk", I'm certainly not going to get into that here. There's quite enough mudslinging and histrionics on this thread to be going on with as it is, I think. *grin*.

As to your statement that Kate is "singing a shit song in her native Barnsley accent...it's hard to know why", oh, I don't know, maybe it's because she LIKES THE SONG. I tend to perform and record songs I personally enjoy performing and recording, rather than subjecting them to a long list of "does this hold up under the weight of every narrow-minded musical zealot that's likely to listen to it?" regulations.

Cheers,

Molly

(who realizes this thread is karmic payback for her past declamations of "Celtic Woman Is Eeeeeeeeevil!!!" *big grin*)

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby, 'You belong to me'
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 09 Aug 07 - 03:08 AM

narrow definition

It's not the definition I proposed that's narrow.
The provenance of music played by English musicians could be just about anywhere.
As a maritime nation, it always has been.
It depends on how that music is played and what it is played on and incorporated into the indigenous tradition that matters.
Local music with a sense of place as I said.
Anything 'celtic' usually is evil, unless it's from musicians steeped in their own tradition and have taken the trouble to re-create ancient instruments and authentic texts.
As opposed to commercialised, wifty-wafty, new-age shit.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby, 'You belong to me'
From: harpmolly
Date: 09 Aug 07 - 03:12 AM

*Molly's head spins around and around and then explodes*

Look at this mess. That's where attempting logic gets me.

Pardon me, I have to find a mop...

:)

Molly

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby, 'You belong to me'
From: Big Phil
Date: 09 Aug 07 - 03:31 AM

Kate sings in a Barnsley accent because she comes from there, ten miles down the road in Sheffield the accent is totaly different, not rocket science is it. Can you make that into some kind of argument Diane Easby.

A quick lesson in Yorkshire speak, "To get some ones attention"

Barnsley -- Ey up

Sheffield -- Nah den dee

I have kept it simple for you, so even you can grasp it D. E.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby, 'You belong to me'
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 09 Aug 07 - 03:39 AM

Then perhaps you should go and do what was suggested way above and go and listen to Jon Boden doing Innocent When You Dream for a start.
This is an English musician interpreting a Tom Waits composition in an entirely English style.
Or look at the work of Simon Ritchie as an obvious example (or that of any eceilidh band) to recognise how these musicians are incorporating and adapting music from what you might (but I don't) categorise as from outside the genre (simply because I don't recognise it as such) and making it their own.
This is directly opposed to just taking mainstream pap and reproducing it as identikit McMuzak in a back-to-front baseball hat.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby, 'You belong to me'
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 09 Aug 07 - 03:46 AM

The above was for harpmolly.
Does anyone know what bigphil is talking about?
Or what it has to do with defining an English style of music?

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby, 'You belong to me'
From: s&r
Date: 09 Aug 07 - 03:54 AM

Just for interest in the name of English Folk Music

"Simon Ritchie: 'Squeezebox Schizophrenia' (X-Tradition Records TMM 1956, Goldens Farm, Boyton End, Thaxted, Essex CM6 2RB or phone [phone])

If you are expecting a traditional melodeon album when you hear this CD, you are in for a surprise. Simon Ritchie plays and sings hits from the 60s 70s and 80s as well as traditional, classical and self composed tunes.

The standard of the playing is amazing. He manages to do things with the instrument that are above and beyond the call of duty. Simon's voice is very reminiscent of traditional gypsy singers, so it takes some getting used to hearing songs like the Sex Pistols' Anarchy In the U.K. with melodeon accompaniment. Having said that, Move Over Darling and I Wanna Hold Your Hand fit like a glove. "

Stu

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby, 'You belong to me'
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 09 Aug 07 - 07:20 AM

Diane you state:->>>>>>>>>>>No. I've already quoted the academically accepted list of two mainland Britain dialects. kR is singing a shit song in her native Barnsley accent. It's hard to know why.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Previously you stated:-
>>>>>>>>>>>David Crystal, Linguistics Professor at Bangor, said in the Cambridge Encyclopedia of the English Language:

Varieties of language can be distinguished not only by their vocabulary and grammar, but also by differences in phonology. Where distinctions are limited to phonology, the term accent is often used instead of dialect.

Using this definition, Professor Crystal defined only two true dialects in mainland Britain, Yorkshire Dales and Lowland Scots.<<<<<<<

"The academically accepted list you quoted has come from one professor at one university....he must be right then???????
Take a look at the British Library site on dialects and the site I gave a link for above .....it would appear to me that you are the only academic (or you believe you are) that accepts Crystals' word as totally correct. Perhaps he only defined two by choice as he had little time to go into them all! or maybe you just got it wrong again!! Where's your source? Where's your proof?

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby, 'You belong to me'
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 09 Aug 07 - 07:24 AM

Well Well...someone has started a thread on accents and dialects....perhaps a quick peek at the website link in the first post.....Diane....just put 'Dialects' into the search box...and away ye go to the land of proof that you are indeed wrong and so is your professor Crystal if what you have quoted is true....I don't know..these universtities, they can't get the staff these days can they?

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby, 'You belong to me'
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 09 Aug 07 - 07:52 AM

Anyone who disagrees with a leading academic's definition is free to sail off in a gunboat and fight them for the right to call their accent a dialect, or their dialect a language.
Been done before.
All David Crystal was doing was providing a linguistic definition, so that people would be clear what they were talking about (ha!)
I find, on the whole, that this assists rational discussion and prevents participants from rampaging off-topic and down blind alleys.
It wouldn't have mattered if Prof Crystal had called accents 'fish pies' and dialects 'apple charlottes' (or whatever).
Well, it might to him . . . it's his definition.
But it's not my personal fault.
I've said before that I couldn't give a toss whether you describe what's spoken in Little Hicksville-by-the-Haystack an accent or a dialect.
Except that it has already been defined academically which precludes the need agonise over which term to use. Or should.
As I said, sail your gunboat round to Bangor if you want to argue the toss.
You might take in some actual Welsh trad and ditch the MOR shit in the sea.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby, 'You belong to me'
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 09 Aug 07 - 08:12 AM

Diane. Are you so blind that you cannot see the truth when it faces you or are so so totally ignorant that you choose to ignore academia when offered? The British Library does not agree with your professor, neither does the site on the accents and dialects thread...what does it take to make someone of your rigidity see the truth? Or even better 'admit' the truth?

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby, 'You belong to me'
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 09 Aug 07 - 08:33 AM

I think that "you belong to me" is great song. I think Kate Rusby is great, but I do not think they are a match at all. And..Ms. Easby is ambitiously rude.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby, 'You belong to me'
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 09 Aug 07 - 11:30 AM

Fer chrissake, David Crystal is one of the leading academics in the world in the field of linguistics.
He was not, however, 'my' professor as I did not study at Bangor.
I quoted his definition in the interests of clarity.
His is the accepted academic treatise on the subject.
I don't give a stuff whether anybody prefers what's been uploaded to some tinpot website for their own quaintly jingoistic reasons.
This is science, not football fandom.
Now sail off in your flaming gunboat and get every accent, idiolect and speech impediment registered as a dialect or even a language.
Just what ease of international communication needs.
And the recording is still MOR mainstream shit.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby, 'You belong to me'
From: KB in Iowa
Date: 09 Aug 07 - 11:33 AM

"And the recording is still MOR mainstream shit."

So you have listened to it now? Earlier you said you had not.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby, 'You belong to me'
From: Sttaw Legend
Date: 09 Aug 07 - 11:51 AM

Its really sunny outside and rather enjoyable.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby, 'You belong to me'
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 09 Aug 07 - 12:02 PM

Yes hasn't it been a beautiful day!

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby, 'You belong to me'
From: Big Mick
Date: 09 Aug 07 - 12:32 PM

One of the things that troubles me about Ms. Easby is that I find myself in agreement with much of the core of what she says, but it gets lost in the arrogance, and the elitist image she projects. For instance when she says, "Fer chrissake, David Crystal is one of the leading academics in the world in the field of linguistics. He was not, however, 'my' professor as I did not study at Bangor. I quoted his definition in the interests of clarity." When one couples it with the other things she has said, it gets ignored as her attitude just causes folks to automatically assume she is being a pompous ass, when in fact she is correct. Had she simply laid out this man's cred's, when she used him as a cite, perhaps we wouldn't be arguing about her instead of the subject. It took me all of 90 seconds to go to Ask.com and pull up the following with regard to Mr. Crystal:

Crystal studied English at University College London between 1959 and 1962. He was a researcher under Randolph Quirk between 1962 and 1963, working on the Survey of English Usage. Since then he has lectured at the University of Wales, Bangor (UWB) and the University of Reading. He is currently an honorary professor and part-time lecturer of linguistics at UWB. His many academic interests include English language learning and teaching, forensic linguistics, language death, ludic linguistics (or language play), English style, Shakespeare, indexing, and lexicography. He is the Patron of the International Association of Teachers of English as a Foreign Language (IATEFL).

Crystal is the author, co-author, editor or translator of over 100 books on a wide variety of subjects, specialising among other things in editing reference works, including the Cambridge Encyclopedia of Language (1987), the Cambridge Encyclopedia of the English Language (1995), the Cambridge Biographical Dictionary, the Cambridge Encyclopedia itself, and the New Penguin Encyclopedia (2003). He has also edited literary works, and is Chair of the UK National Literary Association. He also has a strong line in books for the layman about linguistics and the English language, which use varied graphics and short essays to communicate technical material in an accessible manner. He hypothesises that globally English will both split and converge, with local variants becoming less mutually comprehensible and therefore necessitating the rise of what he terms World Standard Spoken English (cf International English). In his 2004 book The Stories of English, a general history of the English language, he wrote of the value he sees in linguistic diversity and the according of respect to varieties of English generally considered "non-standard". His non-linguistic writing includes poems, plays and biography. A Roman Catholic by conviction, he has also written devotional poetry and articles.

From 2001 to 2006, he served as the Chairman of Crystal Reference Systems Limited, a provider of reference content and Internet search and advertising technology. The company's products are based upon the patented Global Data Model, a complex semantic network that Crystal devised in the early 1980s and was adapted for use on the Internet in the mid 1990s. After the company's acquisition, he remains on the board as its R&D director.

So it appears that Mr. Crystal is, indeed, an accomplished scholar, and Diane's assertion that he is one of the leading academics in the field is correct. His opinions would seem to be a very legitimate predicate to base one's own arguments on.

Diane, you have much to offer. But the "take no prisoners, you are all a bunch of idiots" approach just causes your legitimate points to be lost in the fog.

And I still don't care much for this recording.

Mick

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby, 'You belong to me'
From: GUEST,Crazy Man Michael
Date: 09 Aug 07 - 12:41 PM

It's absolutely wonderful outside the sun's really nice....

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby, 'You belong to me'
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Aug 07 - 12:44 PM

David Crystal is but one source, find me two others that concur exactly with Mr/Doctor/Professor Crystal, and i might go along with him Until then I speak an East Midlands dialect with an East Midlands accent, so play that one on yer fiddle, Missus.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby, 'You belong to me'
From: GUEST,Crazy Man Michael
Date: 09 Aug 07 - 01:03 PM

ooops and I am also that mysterious 'Guest'*LOL*

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby, 'You belong to me'
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 09 Aug 07 - 01:08 PM

professor Crystal is but one source amongst many..that does not make him right as you would see if you checked the British Library link and the one on the accents and dialects thread.
I grew up with Devonshire dialect....left it behind but still have an almost hardly noticeable Devonshire accent.
Perhaps if people actually looked at the Dictionary definitions of accent and dialect...they might be a little more understanding of the whole silly debate.
There are many dialects and many accents and I don't have to be a professor to understand that..I only have to read what many others have written on the subjects.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby, 'You belong to me'
From: Snuffy
Date: 09 Aug 07 - 01:11 PM

Survey of English Dialects
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Survey of English Dialects was undertaken between 1950 and 1961 under the direction of Professor Harold Orton of the English department of the University of Leeds. It aimed to collect the full range of speech in England and Wales before local differences were to disappear. Standardisation of the English language was expected with the post-war increase in social mobility and the spread of the mass media. The project originated in discussions between Professor Orton and Professor Eugen Dieth of the University of Zurich about the desirability of producing a linguistic atlas of England in 1946, and a questionnaire containing 1,300 questions was devised between 1947 and 1952.

313 localities were selected from across England, the Isle of Man and some areas of Wales close to the English border. 404,000 items of information were gathered, and these were published as thirteen volumes of "basic material" beginning in 1962. The process took many years, and was prone to funding difficulties on more than one occasion.

The Linguistic Atlas of England was published in 1978, edited by Orton, John Widdowson and Clive Upton. Two further publications have been produced from the survey's material, Survey of English Dialect: The Dictionary and Grammar (1993) and An Atlas of English Dialects (1996), both co-authored by Upton and Widdowson.

A large amount of "incidental material" from the survey was not published. This is preserved at the Leeds Archive of Vernacular Culture, part of the School of English of the University of Leeds

You'd hardly neeed to publish an Atlas of English Dialects if there only were the one Diane claims. And I think the Leeds Archive might be as (if not more) authoritative on the subject than Professor Crystal.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby, 'You belong to me'
From: KB in Iowa
Date: 09 Aug 07 - 01:24 PM

"Really love the accent...especially the way she sings 'jungle' "

This rather innocuous looking comment is what spawned this whole dialect/accent brou-ha-ha. Incredible, really.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby, 'You belong to me'
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 09 Aug 07 - 01:48 PM

David Crystal on dialects on BBC News

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby, 'You belong to me'
From: s&r
Date: 09 Aug 07 - 01:53 PM

Varieties of language can be distinguished not only by their vocabulary and grammar, but also by differences in phonology. Where distinctions are limited to phonology, the term accent is often used instead of dialect

Note: 'is often used' not should be, or always. It's not uncommon in learned works to define terms for the purpose of the discussion. You might as well say accent and dialect are both used.

Stu

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby, 'You belong to me'
From: KB in Iowa
Date: 09 Aug 07 - 01:57 PM

'David Crystal, consultant to the Voices project, said: "Some of the old rural dialects have disappeared as that way of life has dwindled, but they are being replaced by a new range of dialects from ethnic groups as they settle into communities." '

A new range of dialects, he says. Interesting.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby, 'You belong to me'
From: countrylife
Date: 09 Aug 07 - 02:09 PM

a translation of the lyrics of You Belong To Me.


See t' pyramids along t' nile see t' sunrise fra eur tropic isle just rememba darlin, orl t' while you belong ta uz. see t' market place i' owd algiers sen' uz photographs 'n souvenirs just rememba when eur dream appears you belong ta uz. i'll be sa a sen wiyaa' tha maybe tha'il be lonesome too fly t' ocean i' eur silva plane see t' jungle when it's witched wi' rain just rememba while thas 'ooam agin you belong ta uz i'll be sa a sen wiyaa' tha maybe tha'il be lonesome too see t' pyramids along t' nile see t' sunrise fra eur tropic isle just rememba darlin, orl t' while you belong ta uz.