BS: Popular Views: the Obama Administration

Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Nov 08 - 03:56 PM

Word on the street is that Powell will become Secretary of Education...

As fir capital gains taxes being raised??? Why not, Dougie... We haven't seen folks doing anyhting with the money but either lending it buying more stuff they don't need... I haven't seen where they are using the dough to create new jobs so that argument you can throw out the window...

As to Wall Street v. Main Street... Yeah, I'd have to say that I am more than a little concerned about many of Obama's picks because of their ties to Wall Street but I guess he is thinkin' that seein' as they have those close ties then maybe if he keeps a sharp eye on them that given the mess that we have now that they will be the best players to sell Wall Street on a new culure of thinking... But I will admit that, while it is bold, it is also risky...

B~

Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: DougR
Date: 26 Nov 08 - 05:39 PM

Amos: your lack of experience has rarely prevented you from second-guessing in the past has it?

Bobert: Increase the taxes on Capital gains and watch the stock market plummet. Also watch how much money businesses spend on new equipment and infrastructure. It's a recipe for financial disaster.

DougR

Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: DougR
Date: 26 Nov 08 - 05:41 PM

Oh, and another thing, I think Obama's appointing Paul Volker as his chief financial adviser, or whatever, may be the smartest appointment he has made yet. Volker and Reagan saved the economy from ruin in the 80's.

DougR

Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Nov 08 - 05:52 PM

Volker and Reagan saved the economy from ruin in the 80's.

And thru their shenanigans- aptly styled "Voodoo Ecomnomiocs" by George Bush the First, laid the groundwork for & produced the collapse of the economy in 2008.

Great work, guys.

Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Nov 08 - 05:54 PM

First of all, Dougie... Like what has the stock market been doing??? And that is with Capital Gains at 15%... Secondly, I don't care about the stock market any more... It has become a joke... Its a bunch of rich people (and a few poor folks who thought that 401K was the Bible) who are too lazy to go out and invest in and manage businesses that create jobs... Like...

...boring!!!

No, if the Fat Cats ain't intersted in investing I don't care if the stock market looses a million points... No, make that a zillion points... Close the sumabich down until investors refigurate that if we ain't ptoducing decent paying jobs fir folks then it is a failed system and of rht elast 8 years its been all about profit taking and not about jobs... Screw 'um... Put a "Out of Business" sign out front... Put the crooks in jail... If they won't invest in jobs then maybe a socialistic system is better for the amsses... This system, clearly, has failed miserably... So don't feed the sumabich... Let ***it*** starve.... It is the beast... Not the governemnt!!!

B~

Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Nov 08 - 07:29 PM

watch the stock market plummet

So "no change" there as well?
....................

Obama's supposed to have been echoing Lincoln when it comes to making apppointments, but I think he's also got in mind LBJ's famous quote about Herbert Hoover "Better to have him inside the tent pissing out, than outside pissing in." (Or "her".)

Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Nov 08 - 07:45 PM

LOL, McGee, and happy birthday, to boot...

Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: Riginslinger
Date: 26 Nov 08 - 07:51 PM

"'And thru their shenanigans- aptly styled "Voodoo Ecomnomiocs" by George Bush the First, laid the groundwork for & produced the collapse of the economy in 2008.    Great work, guys.'"


                Exactly, Greg! That's exactly the way it played out. Anybody who can't see that now simply isn't paying attention. What the country needs now is somebody like Paul Krugman. He's been predicting this for over 25 years.
                The other people Obama picked are pretty straight thinkers, though, as far as I know. Maybe they just needed Volcker for some kind of a sounding-board.

Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Nov 08 - 07:59 PM

I agree, Rogs... Paul Krugman would be my choice, too... I reckon that Obama is gonna try the ol' Trojan Horse play??? I donno if it will work but it is ballsy...

Robert Reich would also tickle my fancy at Treasury...

B~

Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: Riginslinger
Date: 26 Nov 08 - 09:30 PM

Well, I think his treasury pick was fine, but if he's looking for additional input, I would be surprised--given the choices he's already made--if he didn't consult Krugman. It seems to me like Krugman has been virtually proven to have been right all along.

Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: Amos
Date: 26 Nov 08 - 10:04 PM

I've done a lot of things, DougR. From them, I form the basis of opinion for most of the things I second-guess. But high-level finance is not among them, and I believe if you go back and read every one of my posts, which I urge you to do, you will be unable to find any, or a very very few, that try to guess the workings of the macro economy.

A

Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 27 Nov 08 - 04:36 AM

Same ol' same ol'

Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: DougR
Date: 27 Nov 08 - 12:08 PM

Bobert:Your remarks about the stock market are insane. But then, what the hey.

Kevin:As you well know, the stock market fluctuates up and down. No one was spilling tears in their beer when it was at 14,000. And it will be there again.

GregF:I don't know where you were in the 1980's but it sure wasn't earth.

Bobert/Riginslinger: If you long to live in a country where economists like Paul Krugman are plentiful, may I recommend Russia. Their economy is super, right?

DougR

Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: Amos
Date: 27 Nov 08 - 12:46 PM

DougR:

Krugman in Russia? What on earth do you mean?

So you believe Reagonomics worked?

I am sorry to hear it.

Good luck with that belief.


A

Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Nov 08 - 01:35 PM

Hey, ya'll... You'll love this...

My brother is a life long Republican... He, like Dougie, believes that Dems are commies but like he called this morning to wish me a happy thnaksfiving and went out of his way to say, while he ceratinly didn't vote for Obama, that he is impressed with the way Obama has been putting together his team???

What next??? Dougie sayin' he thinks Obama is doing a good job??? I don't believe I could take that... Prolly put the ol' hillbilly right in the wacko ward... 'Er worse...

B~

Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 27 Nov 08 - 02:13 PM

First rate people generally hire first rate people. Second rate people hire third rate people.

Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Nov 08 - 02:46 PM

"while he ceratinly didn't vote for Obama, he is impressed with the way Obama has been putting together his team???"
Well he would be wouldn't he? being a right wing Republican!

Come on Bobby ole pal....The big O's rollin' over......Ake

Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: Amos
Date: 27 Nov 08 - 02:55 PM

Ake, you are way off the beam on this call, I am quite sure.


A

Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Nov 08 - 03:26 PM

Arguing about who's going to win the presidential race made sense, as did arguing about who should win. But arguing about how the winner is going to perform in a job he doesn't even have for nearly two more months seems a bit premature.

Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Nov 08 - 03:43 PM

Part of "his job" McGrath, is forming a new administration. So it can be argued that he has already started "his job".
Now if we were to elect a nice socialist Prime minister on an agenda of CHANGE and he started filling his cabinet with old time centre right manipulators and ambitious warrior princesses, wouldn't you smell the fish?

Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Nov 08 - 03:58 PM

Well, yeah, Ake, he does appear to be rollin' over... That scares me a little but I'm hopin' that Obama thinks that he can change alll these folks minds before they change his... I know it's a crap shoot... But it beats the heck outta what McCain and Palin would be doing now had they been elected...

But, yeah, I am concerned... There are a lot of other folks I would rather have seen chosen... Robert Reich at Treasury, for one... Dennis Kucinich at State woul;d have been a nice fit... But doesn't look as if there is a true "liberal" in the bunch so far...

B~

Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Nov 08 - 04:21 PM

Bob...if Mr O had chosen Kuninich for State I would have swum over there and kissed his "black" ass!!:0)

Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Nov 08 - 07:21 PM

The relevant thing will be what the people appointed actually do. The people appointed are in one sense tools, and we still have to find out how the man makes use of those tools.

Scepticism is a reasonable position to take in pretty well all political contexts, but it shouldn't be allowed to slide over into cynicism. By cynicism I mean when we find ourselves wanting to have our scepticism confirmed rather than hoping that it'll turn out that we were wrong.

Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Nov 08 - 07:36 PM

I am still a believer that Obama will use the tools correctly, McGee, but still kinda wonderin' why he chose a pair of channel-locks when the 18" pipr wrench would have been my tool of choice... I hope these folks will be motivated to do things that they haven't done in the past...

Like I say, it's a crap shoot and Obama is holdin' the dice...

B~

Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: Ebbie
Date: 27 Nov 08 - 07:54 PM

Yesterday Obama as asked about this very thing- with all these old familiar faces, where's this change he spoke of in the campaign?

He said, Change comes from the top. It is up to me to direct the change.

Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Nov 08 - 08:00 PM

One thing is Obama is in a very strong position to motivate people "to do things that they haven't done in the past" if he really wants to.

And in a good position to give the order of the boot to them if they don't comply and don't perform, which might be a very effective way to get the message across to the others...

Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: Amos
Date: 27 Nov 08 - 08:57 PM

He made no commitment to choose "nice" people or those that one or another group approved of. He's instinctively looking for the best balance of world experience and bright, well-intended minds.

What some sourpuss in some far corner of elsewhere thinks about his choices makes little difference in the record of what he accomplishes or fails to accomplish. Nattering about the cast of characters is relatively absurd considering we haven't seen the first scene of the first act yet.


A

Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Nov 08 - 04:44 AM

Leopards don't change their spots!!

Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: Ebbie
Date: 28 Nov 08 - 02:59 PM

That doesn't leave much hope for you, huh! :)

Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Nov 08 - 03:54 PM

I love my "spots" Ebbie.........:0)

Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: Ebbie
Date: 28 Nov 08 - 04:06 PM

I see- in denial too. :)

Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Nov 08 - 04:24 PM

:0)XXXX

Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Nov 08 - 05:35 PM

Yeah, Ake... Don't go pokin' at Eb... She is sweet as can be but can put ya' in yer place in short order when you mess up...

As fir Obama, hey, I guess it's gonna be qwait an' see as to his courage to stand up to the Washington insiders with which he has surrounded himself... I'm not too sure which one is the most dangerous but Hillary comes to mind as a finalist in that category...
I mean, he is puttin' a lot of trust in her that she and Billary don't roll him under the bus, which I think they could do...

Heck, I trust Robert Gates more than I trust Hill 'n Bill...

B~

Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: Amos
Date: 28 Nov 08 - 07:03 PM

I think he is trusting his own instinctive talent for log-rolling when that comnes.

Meanwhile, they are handy with the hobnails when intelligently applied.


A

Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: Riginslinger
Date: 28 Nov 08 - 07:06 PM

There's a big difference between "calks" and "hobnails."

Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: Amos
Date: 01 Dec 08 - 03:45 PM

"Five good things Obama said today

By Barb Shelly, Kansas City Star editorial page columnist

Barack Obama pushed some really important buttons today in his remarks as he introduced the nominees for his security team.

What I most appreciated:

1)"I will be giving Secretary (Robert) Gates and our military a new mission as soon as I take office: responsibly ending the war in Iraq through a successful transition to Iraqi control."

Supporters of the current strategy will say that's the current mission. But Obama is putting some urgency behind it. He went on to say that a new focus will be placed on a strategy and resources to succeed in Afghanistan.

2)"Let me be clear: the Attorney General serves the American people. And I have every expectation that Eric (Holder) will protect our people, uphold the public trust, and adhere to our Constitution."

This is a pointed departure from the mindset that got Alberto Gonzales run out of the attorney general's post in George W. Bush's second term. Gonzales never made the transition from being a political operative to a guardians of the Constitution and the rights of U.S. citizens.

3)"She (Janet Napolitano, the Homeland Security secretary nominee) insists on competence and accountability."

There's a concept. It sounds like a rebuke of the good-old-boy hiring that led to the disastrous response to Hurricane Katrina.

4)"America must also be strong at home to be strong abroad. We need to provide education and opportunity for our citizens, so every American can compete with anyone, anywhere."

Education at the K-12 level is primarily a state responsibility. But Obama talks about it often, raising hopes that he'll use his stature to take on the culture of failure that hangs over too many school districts, schools and students.

5)"My dear friend, Hillary Clinton."

What a different a few months make."

Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: akenaton
Date: 01 Dec 08 - 04:19 PM

Being black doesn't necessarily make you a good or trustworthy person, you goons see a change of colour equating to a change of political direction......just imagine the liberal euphoria if Mr Obama was "gay" as well as "black".........welcome to X Factor politics folks!!

I still think you can judge a man by the company he keeps and Mr Obama's company....or administration, will ensure no pesky change anytime soon.

I know you're partial to words Amos.....so how would you like 'em...fried or boiled?

Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Dec 08 - 06:44 PM

Well, looks as if Obama has been studying both Lincoln and FDR and using their successes as a roadmap... I've never been to wild about Lincoln and, let's get real, it was WW II that really broke "The Depression" so I don't know... I think both did good things and bad things and it really boils down to a crap shoot...

I do know that Obama is both blessed to be elected in such a screwed up times and cursed...

And, yes, I do have alot of concerns about the folks he has chosen... Not one pregressive in the bunch... Not one!!!

B~

Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: Amos
Date: 01 Dec 08 - 06:53 PM

Ake:

Exactly which words of mine are you proposing I will have to eat, hey?

Let the man roll and we'll see whether he makes things better or not.



A

Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: beardedbruce
Date: 01 Dec 08 - 07:27 PM

Yes, he does seem to be following FDR's example...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/28/AR2008112802370.html

Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Dec 08 - 07:44 PM

Kinda scares me, bb, seein' as it took a World War to break the US outta "The Depression"... Man, I'm hopion' this redession is more like the one in the 80's than the one in the 30's 'er you may be right about Obama havin' to use yet another war to get the economy on track...

"All we need is another good war" (Bob Martin)

B~

Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: Amos
Date: 01 Dec 08 - 08:10 PM

BB: Will's perspective is interesting, but I am not persuaded it is thorough. While it is possibly true FDR over compensated in the support of labor, it should be remembered he was also doing so after some egregious abuses on the part of corporate leaders, and manic exuberance on the part of financiers leading to the collapse.

He is also very much apparently ignoring the role of technology as the productivity-multiplier it is.

We do not need another good war; the reason the war was a blessing in the Depression is that it provided a hungry market which our labor force was able to fill. It was a no-brainer. Thinking through how to do the same kind of trick with peace-time demands and marketing is a much harder, and much more humane task.

A

Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: Amos
Date: 03 Dec 08 - 02:52 PM

MARION, Ala. (AP) — In central Alabama's Perry County, government workers already get a day off for President's Day, Martin Luther King Day, and Veterans Day. In 2009, they'll get one more: "Barack Obama Day."

The rural county, which overwhelmingly supported Obama in last month's presidential election, has approved the second Monday in November as "The Barack Obama Day." Commissioners passed a measure that would close county offices for the new annual holiday and its roughly 40 workers will get a paid day off.

Sponsoring commissioner Albert Turner Jr. said the holiday is meant to highlight the Democratic president-elect's victory as a way to give people faith that difficult goals can be achieved.

Perry County has 12,000 residents, most of them black. Voters there backed Obama by over 70 percent in a state that gave 60 percent of the overall vote to Republican John McCain based largely on strong support from white voters.

At the state level, Alabama observes the standard federal holidays as well as a handful of its own that include Confederate Memorial Day in April and the June birthday of Confederate President Jefferson Davis. It observes Martin Luther King's birthday in January but the holiday is twinned with commemoration of Confederate Gen. Robert E. Lee on the same day.

Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: Riginslinger
Date: 03 Dec 08 - 06:09 PM

Wow! That's got to be classic; Martin Luther King/Robert E. Lee Day. I wonder if they argue over which name gets top billing.


            As far as FDR making The Great Depression worse, it would seem to make sense to remember that the country had just spent three-and-a-half years waiting for things to get better under Hoover, and nothing happened.

Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 03 Dec 08 - 08:17 PM

Rig-

"But people whose recipe for recovery today is another New Deal should remember that America's biggest industrial collapse occurred in 1937, eight years after the 1929 stock market crash and nearly five years into the New Deal. In 1939, after a decade of frantic federal spending -- President Herbert Hoover increased it more than 50 percent between 1929 and the inauguration of Franklin Roosevelt -- unemployment was 17.2 percent.

"I say after eight years of this administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started," lamented Henry Morgenthau, FDR's Treasury secretary. Unemployment declined when America began selling materials to nations engaged in a war America would soon join.


In "The Forgotten Man: A New History of the Great Depression," Amity Shlaes of the Council on Foreign Relations and Bloomberg News argues that government policies, beyond the Federal Reserve's tight money, deepened and prolonged the Depression. The policies included encouraging strong unions and higher wages than lagging productivity justified, on the theory that workers' spending would be stimulative. Instead, corporate profits -- prerequisites for job-creating investments -- were excessively drained into labor expenses that left many workers priced out of the market. "

Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: Riginslinger
Date: 03 Dec 08 - 08:44 PM

It's my understanding--only from watching pundits on television; no formal research--that the deepening of the depression in 1937 was the result of FDR finally realizing that he couldn't continue to run deficits forever, and tried to balance the budget. I suspect this was through increased taxes, and not cuts in spending.

                   If that's the case, and that this is also the situation in which we find ourselves now, it doesn't seem like there is any actual way out of this, short of another world war.

Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: robomatic
Date: 03 Dec 08 - 09:25 PM

I learned about lunchtime today that the Obama administration was giving up the idea of a windfall profits tax on the oil companies. This was the right thing to do as there are no 'windfall' profits to tax and the idea was tantamount to class warfare. I hoped Obama was too smart to fall for this and apparently he is (too smart to fall for this).

Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 03 Dec 08 - 09:51 PM

"If that's the case, and that this is also the situation in which we find ourselves now, it doesn't seem like there is any actual way out of this, short of another world war. "


As I said- WMD used by two sides by July, 09... 30% chance.

Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: Riginslinger
Date: 03 Dec 08 - 10:09 PM

Wonderful!

Subject: RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
From: Amos
Date: 03 Dec 08 - 10:11 PM

Prediction:

On January 21 or 22, the Obama Administration will unroll an economic plan that will gain traction over the following 12 months and reverse the trend of the present decline gradually but certainly.


A