Smoking at Folk Clubs

Subject: RE: Smoking at Folk Clubs
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 05:03 AM

Well Phlegmb, glad to see a well-reasoned and skilfully put-together argument there. NOT. My post was a personal recollection of my experience of the man, yours was simply vitriol fired up by hearsay. I reckon personal experience carries more weight.
There, no naughty words to offend your delicate eyes.

Bye Now.

Subject: RE: Smoking at Folk Clubs
From: Betsy
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 09:49 AM

Phlegmb,
I didn't much care for Roy Castle - but there is no doubt that he was a very highly talented multi-instrumentalist and almost competent singer who did a bit of dancing also.
The competition he faced just to make it through the ranks of the entertainment and musical scene and establish himself was enormous.
I believe he hailed from Huddersfield which at that time contained the highest number of musicians per head of Capita in Britain - and don't forget how elitist ( in the nicest way )the brass bands in that part of the world were,and still are still are, for musicians wishing to enter into their into their ranks.So there is no doubt that the guy was good.
I'm not sure about the secondary smoking - surely if it was the case, he may have been responsible for tertiary smoking - after blowing it all back at us through his instuments.
No need to bang on in a music Forum / thread about other issues, and ,if you get offended by Anglo Saxon - I suggest you raise the matter in a letter of complaint to the Editor of Bunty or some other young girls magazine - after all - they may give a F*ck 'cos S.Johnny and myself (for two)- certainly don't.

Subject: RE: Smoking at Folk Clubs
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 09:57 AM

Phlegmb - that's a pretty nasty word too. But then it would be.

Subject: RE: Smoking at Folk Clubs
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 10:03 AM

Thanks Betsy and McGrath - I needed that!
Johnny :0)

Subject: RE: Smoking at Folk Clubs
From: GUEST,patriot1314
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 01:26 PM

1/ Air conditioning DOES work..... my local pub has it, no cloud of smoke (unless the coal fire is on.....it sucks the smoke from the chimney and fills the pub!)

2/ Smoke is HEAVIER than air, so does not drift upwards!

I have been to a couple of non smoking folk nights, the atmosphere was as missing as the smoke was!
The place was full of bank managers and teachers who would'nt know a wild rover if he popped up in their porridge.

How about banning Guinness and blokes with ponytails from folk nights?

Oh!.... if your clothes stink, try washing them..... It works

Subject: RE: Smoking at Folk Clubs
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 01:41 PM

patriot 1314 try growing up. Your addiction and the lack of the good sense to kick it is not my problem.

Subject: RE: Smoking at Folk Clubs
From: kendall
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 01:46 PM

I live in a country where majority rules. 75% of us don't smoke. It's not hard to figure.

Subject: RE: Smoking at Folk Clubs
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 01:53 PM

So, 14 postings after we said "enough of this silly argument", it goes on. I guess there's always someone who must have the last word (said he!).

GUEST,Patriot1314, I will not even comment on your posting's logic. If you think it makes sense and provides a convincing argument, let's leave it at that. But your posting also contains its own answer. Please, just keep avoiding non-smoking clubs. That way we'll never meet, and we'll both be happy.

Subject: RE: Smoking at Folk Clubs
From: greg stephens
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 01:59 PM

Kendall: I'm fascinated by your principle of democracy, that if 75% of the population dont do something, the other 25% should be banned from doing it. Would this apply to other minority activities, like guitar-playing, keeping hens, jogging, writing down the numbers on the front of locomotives, writng to Mudcat?

Subject: RE: Smoking at Folk Clubs
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 02:05 PM

Come to think of it, wasn't the old USSR run on that principle?
Just joking.
Really.

Subject: RE: Smoking at Folk Clubs
From: Midchuck
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 02:14 PM

Kendall: I'm fascinated by your principle of democracy, that if 75% of the population dont do something, the other 25% should be banned from doing it. Would this apply to other minority activities, like guitar-playing, keeping hens, jogging, writing down the numbers on the front of locomotives, writng to Mudcat?

That argument misses the point. Pretty much completely.

I consider myself a libertarian (lower case), but smoking in public is not a personal liberty issue.

I will defend, with enthusiasm, the right of any adult to smoke at any time, provided that:

1) It is done where no one else has to breath the second-hand smoke - including the smoker's own children, living in his/her residence, and

2) Some arrangement is made for the burden of the additional health care costs to be imposed on the smoking public rather than the general public - like dumping all of the tobacco taxes into the health care system.

But smoking in an enclosed public space is a physical attack on anyone else present, pure and simple. It would be wrong - it was wrong - even when the majority of people smoked. The difference now is, the non-smokers have the power to protect themselves.

Peter.

Subject: RE: Smoking at Folk Clubs
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 02:18 PM

You don't get secondary "guitar-playing, keeping hens, jogging, writing down the numbers on the front of locomotives..." Smoking is different, as has been pointed out repeatedly by several people. It involves putting smoke in the eyes and lungs of other people in the room. A similar effect can be had by setting fire to a paper handkerchief in an ashtray, but for some reason people tend not to do that too often.

If people want to take a quick nicotine fix, use snuff. If they want to blow smoke around, do it outdoors.

Subject: RE: Smoking at Folk Clubs
From: GUEST,patriot1314
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 02:32 PM

mmmmmmm...... strange!
I don't recall saying I was a smoker, I'm maybe just tolerant.

Subject: RE: Smoking at Folk Clubs
From: greg stephens
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 02:46 PM

McGrath: I am reasonably familiar by now with the "secondary smoking" argument, thought why the same principle doesnt apply to cars I havent quite figured out. My point was purely about kendall's argument, that if 75% of people dont do something, it should be banned. That, to my way of thinking, is not the cornerstone of democracy.

Subject: RE: Smoking at Folk Clubs
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 03:06 PM

I was brought up to believe that "freedom" meant the right to do what you liked as long as it didn't affect anybody else. Acts like smoking impact upon others so my right to smoke must be modified by their right not to smoke. Where the majority do not smoke then my right to smoke must become subservient to their right not to smoke.

Subject: RE: Smoking at Folk Clubs
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 03:24 PM

Perfectly true, and I quite agree that was a weak argument for him to have put up, and it deserve to be put down.

But the distinction I was making is not a weak argument. Smoking in a room does interfere with the enjoyment of other people, and the evidence is that it also threatens their health.

Even if the smokers were in a majority, that applies - and that is the logic behind the Irish Supreme Court decision that resulted in the ban on smoking in Irish pubs, because it centred on the right of the person serving the drinks not to have to breathe other people's smoke smoke in his or her place of work.

The analogy with car fumes is a valid one, and legal restrictions on car emissions already go some way towards meeting it. In time they should go a lot further. However I suspect that there are relatively few closed rooms where you will find an internal combustion engine being operated - and there's probably a law against it already.

Subject: RE: Smoking at Folk Clubs
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 08 Apr 04 - 12:19 PM

Well (and admirably moderately) spoken McGrath! Wish I had your self-control. Respect!
Johnny :0)

Subject: RE: Smoking at Folk Clubs
From: kendall
Date: 09 Apr 04 - 11:53 AM

Greg, are you missing my point on purpose? Ok, let me be more specific; 75% of us don't smoke. Why? because it is expensive, stupid and potentially fatal. I dare say those of us who don't smoke don't want to smell the stench of those who do, not to mention the danger of having to breathe their toxic fumes.
All that crap about hens etc. is nothing but another "Red herring"

Subject: RE: Smoking at Folk Clubs
From: PennyBlack
Date: 09 Apr 04 - 03:29 PM

I have more problems with my breathing problems when around strong perfumes than smoke - but then it's a big world and I don't mind sharing it with my fellow humans.