BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: jpk
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 05:33 PM

then quit picking on americans
also what's most 'funny'about the jewish state,a rel.

state supported by a country that supposedly hates rel. in govt.   

but then those that hate the most are rel.govt.controlled states

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 05:34 PM

Additional thought for jpk...

Considering the way you think it's ok to hold all Muslims accountable for the actions and words of a very small percentage of them, I think it would be perfectly reasonable for people to hold you personally responsible for every reprehensible thing that has ever been done by White Christians of European ancestry, and also for every reprehensible thing that has ever been done by men.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 05:38 PM

I'm not picking on Americans, jpk. I am an American, and I am doing my duty as an American citizen to take responsibility for the bad things my country has done and is doing, and I'm doing my best to try to help correct these things. It's your responsibility as an American citizen to do this as well.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 05:40 PM

Etnic cleansing and clumsey attempts to manipulate the religious and ethnic content of the state lies at the root of the tragedy of Israel/Palestine.If the refugees from the war of 1948 had been allowed to return home the end of the fighting the population of Israel would be much more evenly balanced between Jews and Muslime and Christians, and it is likely that it would now be living peacefully alongside a separate Palestinian state in partnership with it, and in friendship with neighbouring countries.

As I understand it, that kind of situation is what was envisaged by the   founders of Zionism.

...............
Perhaps it's a pity that this thread has been so radically diverted from the London bombings - but it has and it'd make more sense for anyone with stuff to say about that to do so in the other thread about the bombings, rather than struggle vainly to bring this one back in line again..

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 07:12 PM

Perhaps this threat can stay on target and not be hijacked by the franatics and obsessive who can only focus on Israel/Palestinian problems---and they are problems. I add---to add fuel to Carol's fire--of the Palestinian's (and the Saudis, Syrians, etc;) own making.

That should, however, be a different topic---this is about the tragic events in London created---it seems --by some home grown fanatics who felt an embrace---wrongfully believed---to Islam makes this proper. I am sure that true believers will disavow their acts, motives, and intentions.   

Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 07:40 PM

"That should, however, be a different topic" - so
so why "add fuel to Carol's fire" by making an intentionally coat-trailing remark?

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 07:54 PM

Bill H, I will continue to address factually incorrect assertions such as jpk's, as well as outright falshoods coming from you, on this subject as well as others when I see them.

I will not bring up the subject of Israel/Palestine myself unless there is an extremely compelling reason for me to do so.

The obsession is not mine, but that of people like you who hate all Palestinians, Arabs, and Muslims, and/or who see them as less than human, and who just can't pass up an opportunity to spread hate toward these peoples.

It is my responsibility as a person of conscience to point out such behavior when I encounter it, and to combat all forms of hatred wherever and whenever I encounter them. This is what I do, and will continue to do... whether you like it or not.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 08:17 PM

Now Carol you have made assumptions that are not valid. You don't know me=-==and, happily, I don't know you.   As they said in the show "Odd Couple"---don'e assume it merely make and ASS of U and ME.

Please do not attempt to know what my leanings and feelings are about. Your are not privy to them. Unlike you there are gray areas ---I do not just see black and white as you seem (note---seem) to.

So--bottom line---stick to your your obsessions, your diatribes that you consider arguments, your penchant for personalizing all things, and focusing on one subject---who knows why. BUT---do not presume to know or understand my or other poster's beliefs, politics, or anything about them. You are, frankly, not that smart.

I know you will say this is defensive---no just factual and objective.

Shalom, Salaam, Cheerio, See Ya, etc; So--you still do not know what I am about---so do not ASSume.

Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 08:26 PM

Bill H, you have just requested that I stop doing something that you then when right ahead and did to me in the next paragraph. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

If you don't want me to tell you what is in your heart and in your mind... don't tell me what is in my heart and mind. Until you live up to the expectations you have of me, don't expect me to do so either.

All I want to do is discuss the issues. But you are so threatened by what I have to say on the issues, you keep making it personal and making personal ad hominem attacks on me.

If you want me to stick to the issues and not discuss you, you'll need to stick to the issues and not discuss me. Stop being such a hypocrite.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 08:39 PM

Trouble is, people want to discuss the issues they want to discuss. And so this thread has strayed from its original title and presumably also from its intent.

Which is why yesterday's GUEST comment on Jordan's being well endowed (referring of course to British model or whatever she is) was the closest to the thread's title; because of the British reference.

For the rest, much of this thread reads boringly similar to dozens of other threads on the subject of muslims, jews, bigotry, Bush, Blair, the media etc etc. Many valid opinions are lost in the midst of posters trying to outdo each other and score points off each other.

It's just a rehash and leads nowhere.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 08:46 PM

El Grecko---You have hit the nail on the proverbial head. This is, sadly, a version of cyber Bullshit---people just venting their own issues---me---I too am guilty in responding to people like Carol
The rest would just be confrontational---so why bother.

Peace!!!

Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 08:57 PM

You're so full of it, Bill. I REPEAT... I DID NOT BRING UP THE SUBJECT OF ISRAEL/PALESTINE ON THIS THREAD.

I repeat once again...

I DID NOT BRING UP THE SUBJECT OF ISRAEL/PALESTINE IN THIS THREAD

I have only responded to what others have said on the subject here in this thread.

ANY SUGGESTIONS TO THE CONTRARY BY BILL HAHN IN THIS THREAD ARE OUTRIGHT LIES

Bill Hahn has nothing of substance to contribute to any subject, pertinent or otherwise, so he has to resort to lies and personal attacks because that's all he's got to work with.

El Grecko, if you are suggesting that I am the one who brought the subject of Israel/Palestine into this thread, you are a liar as well.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 09:14 PM

Wow---you do get upset, Carol. Try to find more to your life than this sad cyber venue. There must be something.    Surely you must have other interests than mundane discussions that lead nowhere.

Have you tried some physical exercises--seriously---get those endorphins flowing--really helps. I played tennis today and this is not my biggest priority. Feel real good---wish you do too. Seriously!! Now we really have left London and gotten into dear old Carol Cs anger.

Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 09:15 PM

I rest my case.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 09:23 PM

which is what? YOur need for anger control management?

Bill H

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 09:23 PM

From: jpk
Date: 12 Jul 05 - 04:57 PM

dear carol c if not for the media,this would not even be a blip on the radar.the only way they can accomp.anything with these actions is with media help and there tend. to [blow]things way out of proportion.(more of there [if it bleeds it leads]reporting standards.   giving into the plo,and it's sister orgs sure accomp. a lot did it not[yep more violence]and to think clinton and those before him [bush sr included][yes and carter to] were proud of there placating actions to the spoiled brats of socalled palistine   i do feel for the victims,but must carry on.

This is the post that brought the Palestinian People into this Thread.

A simple read through can provide validation of someone's claim that they did not bring the subject up and only replied to the subject when it was!

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 09:40 PM

which is what? YOur need for anger control management?

No, the fact that you have nothing of substance to add to any discussion. But I am also beginning to conclude that you are a troll.


By the way EL GREKO... the actual subject of this thread is Peter Woodruff's suggestion that the London bombings and the 9/11 attacks were both a part of a conspiracy by the governments of the US and Britain to create an excuse for the "war on terror".

With that in mind, all but the first few posts on this thread are off topic. Yours included.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Jul 05 - 09:55 PM

Thanks, GUEST 13 Jul 05 - 09:23 PM

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 14 Jul 05 - 04:38 AM

CarolC, calm down - my post was not referring to yours, just to the state of the thread. It's like watching a tennis match with several participants; heads go left, right, further left, and so on, and one cannot get a sense of the whole discussion. The thread started with the question about why Guliani was in London to be interviewed (apparently he was on holiday - true or false, who knows), but the discussion soon descended to bickering.

Now, I did not attack you, but you felt the need to lash out, even to the level of pointing out that my own note too was off the point (!). I don't mind, I still often agree with your postings, though not always with their manner or tone, but hey - it's a free internet, one can say what they want anyway, and we don't have to like each other.

I am only guessing from your manner, but you must be a frustrating person to like when you hit out at friends like this.

Over and out - the other thread on London is more interesting.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 14 Jul 05 - 09:23 AM

The land that Jordan took was later captured and occupied by Israel in the 1967 war. This is the land that is now in dispute, and that the Palestinians want as their homeland. This land, btw, is the West Bank, Gaza, and East Jerusalem. (Carol)
Gaza?

Back to the start of the thread. When the first news came in I knew that there would be people (mostly the same) at Mudcat saying 'conspiracy'. They always do when the actual culprits don't fit into their prejudices. Meanwhile it is obvious except to the most closed-minded that it was an Al Qaeda attack (though this is now probably more a general brand name than an actual strongly led group. The name is there for grabs for any Muslim fundamentalist groups prone to violent action).

What drives these people is much more fundamental than Iraq, Afghanistan or Israel. This type of violence would not stop if some demands were met. Meeting some demands only could help to dissuade some of their new blood.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: CarolC
Date: 14 Jul 05 - 12:42 PM

Actually, El Greko, I have been ignoring many of your similar, broad sweeping condemnations of large numbers of other peoples' posts in other threads. I find them to be rude as well as presumptuous. But this time I felt it was time to comment. You must be a very bossy and overbearing person to have to deal with in your real life.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: CarolC
Date: 14 Jul 05 - 07:31 PM

Yes, Wolfgang, Gaza is still in dispute. There are many people in Israel who are still working very hard to prevent the handover of Gaza. I'll stop including Gaza in statements like that one after it's been handed over. A lot can happen between now and then.


On the subject of assumptions (and making an ass of one's self)...

When I post something in red letters, it is to increase the chances that my words will be seen. Any assumptions about my emotional state when I do so are nothing more than that - assumptions, and more often than not, they will be wrong assumptions.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 14 Jul 05 - 08:00 PM

I've got to 'fess up, Carol, you got me sussed. You clearly know me so well from my posts on this and other threads that you have worked out that I am a rude and presumptious individual, and bossy and overbearing too. My sweeping condemnations of large numbers of other people's posts must have been hard to ignore until now, so I fully understand that this time you had to do something about it.

Oh well, what can I do - friendless and unloved I remain...

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 14 Jul 05 - 09:11 PM

Ah well---Carol---as usual your obsessive and compulsive comments---devoid of a debating formulation---other than your own narrow interests that make you then say "troll" leave me nothing but to say that there are more important things in our short, but hopefully, worthwhile lives, than to correspond with the obsessive kidnappers of a discussion to fulfill their futile and frustrating (to them---meaning you) agenda.

Happy Southern evenings dear compulsive and obsessive. May the thought of wider thinking and a more open mind visit upon you at some point in the near future


Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 14 Jul 05 - 09:14 PM

I add here---that the London tragedy is a hell of a lot more germaine than your diatribes---and we should stay on that and mourn the loss of innocents from fanatics who, for whatever sick reason, believe they have the right to be judge, jury, and decide the fate of others. You may well applaud them---I say NO---swift justics should be meted out---when we are sure the right parties are "collared"

Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: dianavan
Date: 14 Jul 05 - 09:53 PM

The face of 911 in London happened to be British. The masterminds apparently left the country before the bombing. Pakistan seems to be a hotbed of terrorist training. So why not invade Pakistan instead of Iraq? This is a similar question; "The 911 terrorists were Arabs so why don't we seek out the terrorist in Saudi Arabia?"

Why the war in Iraq? You can't fight terrorists with military might. What is needed is good police work. This could be done without any war at all. Why can't the government understand this?

I am so sick of incompetence.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: CarolC
Date: 14 Jul 05 - 11:26 PM

I could say the same about your remark regarding what you suppose I am like in the 3D world as well, El Greko.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 15 Jul 05 - 11:57 AM

OK, let's say "snap" and move on, Carol. I will suppose no longer.

Dianavan, I agree 100% with your "can't fight terrorism with military might" statement. It's the wrong size net for the fish you need to catch. In fact your statement applies even in the case of state-sponsored terrorism, which of course neither the London bombings nor 9/11 were.

Earlier today, when I heard that (one of) the bombmaker(s) was Egyptian and had been arrested in Cairo, it occurred to me that there will be those out there who will immediately shout "bomb Egypt". But that is the same mindlessness thar drives thugs to attack a sikh temple in the UK because they thought it was a mosque, or the early Crusaders to arrack christian villages in the M.East because the males wore turbans. But the truth is you can't fight bombs with bombs when it comes to terrorism.

Police work is indeed what is needed, and painstaking one at that. I confess I am rather surprised (pleasantly) at the swift progress made so far; these things can take years. I can only guess at the massive effort that has gone on to sift through the available evidence, and of course that mother's phone call was a lucky break.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: CarolC
Date: 15 Jul 05 - 12:55 PM

No problem, El Greko.


I will be ignoring you from now on, Bill H, because that's how I have been instructed to respond to trolls. I have been assured that if I ignore you, you will go away.


dianavan... it's quite a gooey problem, isn't it? If we were to examine it all from the perspective of behavioral psychology, I think we would come up with some interesting and possibly rather disturbing questions.

In behavioral psychology, you look at what causes the behavior to increase (or decrease), and you also look at who benefits and in what way from the behavior in question (if the behavior persists), to try to find the reasons for what is happening.

So we might ask these questions...

- Who has benefitted (if anyone) from 9/11 and the London bombings?

- Has the "war on terror" caused the behavior to increase or decrease (or continue at the same level?)

- Has the invasion and occupation of Iraq caused the behavior to increase or decrease (or continue at the same level?

- Has the way the West has responded to the issue of militant Islam caused the behavior to increase or decrease (or continue at the same level)?


Some of these questions are not easy to answer. It would be difficult (maybe even impossible) to try to predict how many "terrorist" attacks might have happened had things been done differently. We can't really measure that. But we can measure an increase in the kinds of people who are engaging in these kinds of activities. For instance, the fact that the London bombers are supposed to all be people who were born and raised in Britain. And we can measure any increases in particular forms of "terrorism". For instance, the fact that the London bombings are supposed to be the first ever suicide bombings in Europe.

One could argue that 9/11 happened before the "war on terror", and before the invasion and occupation of Iraq. But there were other things happening that we could look to as possible causes for that. The question for now is, if we do this (whatever we happen to be contemplating), does the behavior increase, decrease, or remain at the same level, and who benefits from whatever we find to be the result?

The only reason I can think of why the people who are supposed to be dealing with this problem are not using a behavioral psychology approach to understanding it and dealing with it is because doing so might draw attention to behaviors of their own that they don't want to draw attention to.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: dianavan
Date: 15 Jul 05 - 01:05 PM

Carol - While I basically agree with the above, I think that it is inaccurate to apply psychology to groups of people. Behavioral psychology can only be applied to individuals. Sociology deals with groups of people. To understand how those groups interract we need to look at the economy, politics and social status.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: CarolC
Date: 15 Jul 05 - 06:41 PM

Oops. You're right, Wolfgang. I see my mistake now.

Dianavan, I don't think I can agree with you. Group dynamics are an important part of behavioral psychology. Behavioral psychology does not just deal with individuals. The size of the group is not important. Sociology also deals with groups of people (in different ways), and it can also be used as a tool for understanding why these kinds of things happen. But to not address group dynamics from the perspective of behavioral psychology leaves a very big hole in the total picture.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 15 Jul 05 - 06:45 PM

Wow---Carol---you took the course in Troll avoidance 101---bravo. Sadly you never found out the definition of that vis a vis a legitimate disagreement.

   Your next course should be Obsessive/Compulsive definition--101. Probably less expensive to get a mirror and look into it.

Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: Shakey
Date: 15 Jul 05 - 07:07 PM

Sorry to burst in on carolc's party but, to return to the topic:

I assume Peter Woodruff is about twelve and a half years old, this is based upon what I know of kids who are already thirteen and who think conspiracy theories are quite amusing.

As for some of the people here who seem to go along with all of this clap trap, well, you need to get out more.

Bill, you need to follow Feminist Humour 101 - when someone creates it that is.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: CarolC
Date: 15 Jul 05 - 07:22 PM

One example that comes to mind would be the phenomenon of scapegoating. The practice of scapegoating is very much something that can be examined and understood using the questions I posed in my 15 Jul 05 - 12:55 PM post, and it is something that can happen only in groups.

And scapegoating is a tool that is and has been used by governments and other powerful entities as a means of controling behavior. I would go so far as to say that it is a big part of the problem we see now.

In smaller groups, like families for instance, the practice of scapegoating creates a schism between the ones who are designated as "good" or some other term denoting acceptability, and the one(s) who are designated as "bad" or some other term denoting unacceptability. When this is the pattern, it's as though there are two sets of score cards. Only good marks go on the scorcards of the ones designated as "good" (and no bad marks, no matter how badly they behave), and only bad marks are put on the score card of the "bad" ones (no matter how "good" they behave).

And what we see when that happens is that the ones who are designated as "bad", usually end up rebelling against the group dynamic, sometimes in the form of addictions, sometimes in the form of the scapegoated one removing him or herself from the group (or family), or by exhibiting hostile behavior within the group. Such people can often function perfectly well outside the group without engaging in any of those behaviors, but when placed back in the group context, those behaviors emerge again.

In a scapegoating group dynamic, using the questions I posed earlier, it is possible to understand why people are behaving the way they are, and sometimes even to correct the situation (dynamic). For instance, the ones who are designated as "good" have something to gain from someone in the group being designated as "bad". While they criticize the ones who are designated as "bad", they actually need someone to be designated as "bad" in order to be able to identify themselves as "good". So they have to make a decision... would they prefer to let go of the need to elevate themelves at the expense of someone else, and to eliminate whatever disfunctional behaviors result from that dynamic, or would they prefer to maintain that dynamic and take the consequences.

In this particular context, if we ask the question; since the beginning of the "war on terror" have we seen an increase or a decrease in the kinds of people who engage in terrorist acts, or an increase in the kinds of terrorist acts being engaged in (or old kinds showing up in new places), the answer is "yes". If we ask, who gains (benefits) from this increase, we find that the most extreme elements of both sides of the conflict are the ones who gain (the gains for the US government, of course, being money and increased power). The people in the middle (the vast majority of people) lose.

So, since the people who are waging the "war on terror" are one of the groups who gain from the results of an increase of terrorist activities, we can extrapolate the possibility that this is, in fact, what they want. And we can look at any actions they may take or any behaviors they engage in as possibly being designed to produce this specific result.

This is a vastly oversimplified example. Obviously there are many other factors to consider. But it does give you an idea about how these questions can be used as a part of the total picture to help understand why people behave the way they do.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jul 05 - 07:49 PM

Jordan still has massive tits

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: GUEST,H. Hogan (a real American)
Date: 16 Jul 05 - 11:25 AM

Bill Hahn is one of the most respected FolkDJ's in the country. CarolC spends all of her time making excuses for terrorists and attacking legitimate governments who stand up to them.

According to CarolC, anyone who disagrees with her, and that would be about 96% of all Americans, is a "troll." Thank God that the loonies-of-Mudcat like CarolC and Dianavan are not typical of the vast majority of people.

Don't worry Bill, you're in good company.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 16 Jul 05 - 11:57 AM

Thanks--H Hogan---for both thoughts

Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: dianavan
Date: 16 Jul 05 - 12:54 PM

Guest,H. Hogan (A Real American) AKA troll - "...the vast majority of people" do not hide behind a variety of pseudonyms to express their opinions. I have no 'beef' with Bill Hahn so please do not try to create a problem that does not exist. You are a coward and a bully. Thank goodness the vast majority of people are neither.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: Shakey
Date: 16 Jul 05 - 01:05 PM

I don't see what H Hogan said that was cowardly or bullying. However I do find you naive and dangerous. You have posted over 3000 messages - I think it's time you got a life in the real world.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: Frankham
Date: 16 Jul 05 - 01:12 PM

Ellen,

I believe that pulling US troops out of Iraq may not stop violence from occuring but I do think it would go a long way to diminish it somewhat in the Middle East. As long as US troops are on Iraqi soil, there can be no peace agreement. Unfortunately, the brokers in the Mid-East peace deal have no moral authority to do anything useful.. The Bush administration abdicated all moral authority by the pre-emptive invasion of a foreign country and is a spokesperson for violence in the world.

The fanatics are not identifiable at this time. They are there but they are unseen as long as the Bush propaganda machine makes them into a mythical hob goblin. Somewhere we have to come to terms why young men would blow themselves up to promulgate their beliefs. They must be shown a constructive alternative not a massive retaliation using the same means that they do.

Frank Hamilton

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Jul 05 - 01:14 PM

He's a DJ!?

hahahahahahahaha...

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: GUEST,H. Hogan (a real American)
Date: 16 Jul 05 - 01:28 PM

CarolC,

If anyone around here is a troll, it's you and Dianavan.

Yes, Bill Hahn is a DJ. Along with Ron Olesko, he is the host of Traditions, one of the top folk music programs in the country.

You should tune in, you'd learn something about folk music, and about humanity.

WFDU Traditions

Bill is also the host of an excellent program of Jewish music called Sunday Simcha.

WFDU Sunday Simcha

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: Shakey
Date: 16 Jul 05 - 01:33 PM

Give up Hogan she's not listening, by the way did you know diana thinks we're actually the same person. We must be 'cause she's always right.

Shakey

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: GUEST,well
Date: 16 Jul 05 - 01:37 PM

dianavan said

"I have to admit to having similar thoughts. What better way to shift the attention of G8 away from global warming or the economics of the developing nations? What better way to cement the relationship between the U.S. and Britain than to bond their citizens in grief and dismay? What better way to increase the demand for a war on terror?"

"It somehow doesn't fit that this was an act of Muslim fanatics"

I think her UK and USA sabotage plot theory has been blown out of the water, the meeting between Bush and Blair to concoct the bombings I think you now know to be a little far fetched to say the least.

CarolC

Get a life

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Jul 05 - 01:40 PM

I can have a productive discussion with anyone who holds different views than me if he or she is capable of discussing the actual issues rather than slinging personal abuse. But anyone who consistantly slings personal abuse is simply looking to get an emotional response... not discuss issues. Joe Offer has instructed us to not respond to people who are just trying to get an emotional response (trolling). I have said that I will follow Joe's instructions in this particular case. I find it interesting that Bill H finds this so threatening that he has to post under three different identities in this thread (Bill H, Hulk Hogan, and Shakey) to try to discredit my decision to ignore him.

LOL (DJ indeed... )

hahahahaha...

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: dianavan
Date: 16 Jul 05 - 01:47 PM

I'm not always right and I'm not interested in engaging in your stupid game. Grow up.

Once again, you are trying to de-rail a perfectly good thread.

You are like the face of 911 - anonymous and dangerous.

Frankham - You are exactly right. By occupying Iraq, we are creating more terrorists. It is also a very ineffective way to fight terrorism. What are we going to do, invade Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Syria and Iran? Since the London bombers were British, maybe Blair should slap his own face.

Armies are not intended to do police work.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: GUEST,H. Hogan (a real American)
Date: 16 Jul 05 - 01:47 PM

CarolC,

YOU are the ultimate troll and beleive me, other than the Dianavan, everyone here knows it.

I not Bill Hahn. I have never even met the man. However, I have listened to him many times via the WFDU webstream.

Unlike you, he's someone who is a vital part of the folk music scene in this country.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Jul 05 - 01:48 PM

Yeah, sure.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: GUEST,Well
Date: 16 Jul 05 - 01:55 PM

"Since the London bombers were British, maybe Blair should slap his own face."

dianavan you did not have any credibility in the first place but any you had with anyone has just been totally lost with the above statement. Get a life.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: dianavan
Date: 16 Jul 05 - 04:20 PM

Please read: http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=7025

Can someone help with a blue clicky?

From the article:

"Since 1990, the United States has stationed tens of thousands of ground troops on the Arabian Peninsula, and that is the main mobilization appeal of Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda. People who make the argument that it is a good thing to have them attacking us over there are missing that suicide terrorism is not a supply-limited phenomenon where there are just a few hundred around the world willing to do it because they are religious fanatics. It is a demand-driven phenomenon. That is, it is driven by the presence of foreign forces on the territory that the terrorists view as their homeland. The operation in Iraq has stimulated suicide terrorism and has given suicide terrorism a new lease on life."