British Rock n Roll

Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 05:31 AM

...Right you are ,Charley, as usual!
BTW Herself, on hearing I'd declined the offers in your last 2 e-mails, thinks the 12-step programme may be working at last! Only got about 4 CDs on order at the moment!

RtS

Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll
From: Rasener
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 05:56 AM

Here is an interesting link, I think.

http://www.onlineweb.com/theones/1950_ones.htm

Strikes me that whilst Rock and Roll was brilliant, not many singers acheived a number one hit with Rock and Roll in the UK

Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 06:21 AM

Don't think Joe Meek was into girls.

Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll
From: Rasener
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 06:41 AM

Say no more Al :-)

Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll
From: fat B****rd
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 08:14 AM

Listen again to the Joe Meek story on BBC Radio 2. Strange Man.
Dadudendoodoo Angela Jones. I hated that record when it came out and still hate it now.
Bad Penny Blues, now that's different.
I'll get me anorak.

Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll
From: Rasener
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 05:14 PM

Bad Penny Blues - now that is something else

Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll
From: GUEST,Trev
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 05:23 PM

Not sure about Cliff and Shadows being first 'real' group. Billy Fury had the Tornadoes as his backing band, who scored number 1 in UK and US (only Brit instrumental group to do so) with Telstar.

Wasn't Johnny Kidd's "Please Don't Touch" before "Shakin' All Over".

Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll
From: Peace
Date: 11 Feb 07 - 12:01 AM

Youtube video: Country-Rock today. Good song.

Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll
From: Blindlemonsteve
Date: 11 Feb 07 - 02:11 AM

Hi Trev, Larry Parnes bought in the Tornadoes to back Billy Fury around 1961, to try to emulate the success of Cliff and the Shadows, He auditioned many bands for Billy, including the Beatles, of whch John Lennon got Billys autograph, he was a real fan of Billy Fury.The Shadows were originally called the Drifters, but had to change theyre name in 1959 because of the American group of the same name. Cliff and the Drifters truly were our first r,n,r band, unfortunately because of what Cliff has gone on to do, they seem to get forgotten as a credible band, they only really had about 18 good months. but if your from the States and you have never heard of tem, they are well worth checking out.
Heres a few titles to look out for

1, Move It
2, Apron Strings
3, Livin Lovin Doll
4, Mean Streak
5, No Turning Back
6, Dynamite

Dont forget the first album just called "Cliff" recorded live at the E.M.I studios in 1959. not a bad track on it..... also check out "The Sound of Fury".....

Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll
From: Peace
Date: 11 Feb 07 - 02:17 AM

Move It and Mean Streak are both on Youtube, FYI.

Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll
From: Alec
Date: 11 Feb 07 - 03:06 AM

Guinness give the title of first British Rock 'n' Rollers to top the British charts to Tommy Steel & the Steelmen's version of "Singing the Blues" which reached the top on 11th January 1957.
Cliff & The Drifters(as were) got there for the first time on 31st July 1959 with "Livin' Doll"
Though The Tornadoes did score the first major Transatlantic Britrock hit with "Telstar" Billy Fury never had a No 1 hit in his own right.(personal best "Jealousy" No 2 Sept. 1961)

Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll
From: Blindlemonsteve
Date: 11 Feb 07 - 04:00 AM

My point about Cliff and the Drifters being the first true British RnR band is that, although Tommy Steele had what is known as our first RnR hit, he wasnt really a RnR artist, "Rock with the Caveman" is a very weak song, its a record company contrived piece of garbage really, all his RnR records were. He was placed to get teenagers to spend theyre new found wealth...he was a 1950´s version of an Xfactor winner. but probably more forgettable. They all were untill Cliff and the Drifters arrived. I personally think that those early RnR hits like "Rock around the Clock" "Rock with the Caveman" etc etc, are more swing/big band orientated. My personal favourite by Billy Fury is "Wonderous Place" it still sounds fresh today, if he sung the killer lyric any slower it would be a ballad, if he sang it any faster it would be a pop song, he gets it smack on......although i love him doing "Dont Knock Upon My Door"   fantastic stuff....

Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll
From: Alec
Date: 11 Feb 07 - 04:26 AM

Agree with your view of Cliff's primary importance Blindlemonsteve but I feel that, having peaked so early,he rapidly became a singer who was,for the most part,inclined to sing anything that looked as though it may have commercial potential.
(Though this may be verging on blasphemy in the eyes of some,I feel the same way about Elvis.)

Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll
From: Blindlemonsteve
Date: 11 Feb 07 - 05:05 AM

You are absolutely right Alec, although i do feel that Elvis´s problem was with his management rather than his pursuit of commercial success. But with a few exeptions, i dont think Elvis done anything of real note for real music lovers after 1956. John Lennon nailed it when told of Elvis´s death he said "Elvis died the day he went in the army"
His records on the Sun label were absolutely amazing, i cant imagine how they must have sounded to middle class Bible belt America when they first come out....i think they were an important part of the civil rights movement.
But these problems of people selling out for commercial success are common. just about everyone does it in the end, The problem with Cliff is that he got so naff, that its hard to remember that he actually deserves his place in the British RnR hall of fame, but only because he had done his best work by the time he was 20. I listen to Move it and think what could have been...

Whats got 200 feet and smells of urine "the front row of a Cliff richard concert".... what a shame....

Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll
From: Alec
Date: 11 Feb 07 - 09:47 AM

Roy Young was one time pianist in Tony Sheridan's Band & last I heard was living in Canada.

Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll
From: GUEST,Terry K
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 05:21 AM

Interesting, your reference to Roy Young, who I thought was one of the better talents of the original British rock 'n rollers. I don't think he ever amounted to anything in terms of commercial success did he?

cheers, Terry

Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll
From: Alec
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 05:46 AM

There is a fairly lengthy recent(ish) interview with Roy Young at beatles.ncf.ca

Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll
From: Scrump
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 06:07 AM

Interesting discussions - I've only just revisited this thread so here's my catch-up 5p's worth.

Girls in Rock 'n' Roll - Alec's assessment is right (i.e. being a female R 'n' R star wasn't considered the right wholesome image for a young woman at the time). It was similar in the USA, with Wanda Jackson being very much an exception in the mid/late 50s. Most girl singers of the Helen Shapiro ilk were the female equivalent of the 'teenage idol' type of male singer that was still popular until being swept out of fashion by the Beatles and the 'beat boom' (see below). This continued to some extent for female singers even after that (big 1960s female stars like Cilla Black, Sandie Shaw, etc., were not really R 'n' R singers).

I'm surprised no-one followed up Manfred's mention of The Springfields, who were more folky than most bands in those days. They consisted of a trio with Dusty & Tom Springfield and Tim Field (later replaced by Mike Hurst). They had a few hits in the UK including Island of Dreams & Say I Won't Be There, and issued some albums with a lot of folk songs on. Of course Dusty went on to be a much bigger star on her own. As others said, Lulu didn't arrive until 1964 (initially with her then obligatory band 'The Luvvers') when the 'beat boom' was well under way (see below).

British R & R bands: apart from Clif & The Shadows and Johnny Kidd & The Pirates, there were few successful bands as opposed to solo singers, until the Beatles came along. Yes, Billy Fury had various backing groups at different times including the Tornados, the Outlaws and the Blue Flames (featuring Georgie Fame on keyboards - of course he & the Blue Flames had great success in their own right after moving on from Billy.)

When the Beatles came along, suddenly the charts were full of groups, notably from Merseyside, Manchester and London (among other places), and solo male singers were seen as somewhat old hat. The record companies tried to bring their singers up to date by finding backing groups for them, e.g. Adam Faith & The Roulettes, Billy Fury & The Outlaws. It worked for a while, until the beat boom moved on and some of these artists faded away (e.g. Adam Faith didn't have much success after the mid-1960s).

Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 07:22 AM

Roy Young also played Hammond in Cliff Bennet's 'Rebel-Rousers'. A fantastic player in a fantastic soul-orientated band. Had the pleasure of playing on the same bill as them a number of times in the '60's - magic nights!

Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll
From: fat B****rd
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 08:43 AM

Damn right, Strollin', I saw Cliff Bennett numerous times from '61 to '69. He always had great musicians and material. Roy Young was on Hammond and vocals with Chas Hodges on Bass and vocals. Last I heard of Roy on record was with Long John Baldry back in the 80s.

Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll
From: Leadbelly
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 12:52 PM

Very good summary of this discussion so far, Scrump!
Concernig girls in Rock'n'Roll I would like to add that next to Wanda Jackson US-singer Connie Francis has had a rock'n'roll-like song in 1958: Stupid cupid. And what about lipstick on your collar? At least she has had some talent to perform r&r.
But naturally she's not british (see subject).

Manfred

Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll
From: GUEST,ian
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 05:38 PM

Johnny Ray,Sam Cooke,Ray Charles,and so many more who moved music on in ways that the 50s needed.To develope and change as music does and will.Music is not a pure thing of Folk,Rock and Roll,Skiffle,R/B,Reggae,Motown or whatever.It does not stand still,because the art does not stand still.

Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll
From: GUEST,Terry K
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 12:33 AM

Thanks for that link on Roy Young - there was me thinking he had sunk into oblivion whereas it seems he has had a fantastic career just below the parapet - including playing on Beatles albums.

cheers, Terry

Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll
From: Scrump
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 05:36 AM

Good point about Connie Francis, Manfred.

She and some of the other girl singers did sing a few rock 'n' roll-like songs, but I would hesitate to call them rock 'n' roll singers. Connie Francis probably had more hits with ballads and 'teenage' love songs that were popular in those days. Some of the girl singers would do occasional up-tempo numbers which might just be classed with rock 'n' roll, but R&R purists would probably say they weren't!

Some girl singers had rather gentle vocal style which wouldn't probably have lent itself to rock 'n' roll. Lulu is an exception, as I would think Helen Shapiro could be too, as they both had strong voices that could belt out a song. But others like Sandie Shaw and Carole Deene (remember her?) were probably better at the 'teenage' love songs than anything else.

Then of course there were the girl groups, a whole new topic (Shangri-Las, Shirelles, etc.)!

Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll
From: Blindlemonsteve
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 08:01 AM

I know its not RnR, but i love Cilla Black "Anyone who had a heart". its such a classy song, i think that has to be the female single of the 60´s. Just wanted to add that really....

Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll
From: Leadbelly
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 08:31 AM

Scrump,I heard about Carol Deene, but I cannot remember any songs she did. Living in Germany I had to rely on BFN and I don't believe that she ever reached the top ten resp. top 20 although I just learned by a german site that she did it once (rank# 20).
She has had a car accident in 1966, that's right?

By the way: remembering BFN in those days Alastair McDougall (?) and others come into my mind. They made a good job for the british army in northern germany and as a german I'm very thankful for all information about british and international music. I got a positive shock listening for the first time to Lonnie's "Cumberland Gap" and "Don't you rock me Daddy-o". Wow!

Manfred

Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll
From: Scrump
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 08:39 AM

Hi Manfred. Yes, she did have a serious car accident in 1966 as you say, but her chart career was already over by then. She only had a few minor hits, some of which were covers of American hits by US girl singers like Sue Thompson (Norman and Sad Movies) and Joanie Sommers (Johnny Get Angry). She recovered from the accident but I don't know what happened to her after that. Her singing style was probably put out of fashion by the Beatles and other groups.

Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 10:31 AM

not had time to read all this..

but the best of late 50's Brit rock'n'roll is a glorious timeless sound..

Btw.. to get a flavour of seedy late 50's soho/coffee bar rock'n'roll era

check out DVD "Expresso Bongo" usually about £3 or £4

[or the recent more expensive 'special edition']

a classic sharp black & white widescreen satire on dodgy rock'n'roll show biz promoters..

Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll
From: Blindlemonsteve
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 02:24 PM

On the Expresso bongo theme, check out "Serious Charge" an absolutely fantastic Film, very dark issues, and the first recording of Living Doll, a rocked up version, also "No turning Back".... fabulous,,, tell ya what else has come out on DVD is "The Leather Boys".... real cutting drama about a young lad experiencing the secret homosexual desires of a friend,,, its a must see, also, my Dad is in one of the motorcycle scenes. its the film that Morrisey based "Girlfriend in a coma" on....long live Pinewood.

Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll
From: Scrump
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 02:34 PM

The "Serious Charge" 45 rpm EP is notable because it featured the first ever track by the Shadows on their own, "Chinchilla" (The Shadows were still called the Drifters then). (The other 3 tracks on the EP were by Cliff of course).

Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll
From: Rasener
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 02:19 PM

Strollin'
Now that was a great band Cliff Bennett & The Rebel Rousers

2 of my favourites were

One Way Love
Got To Get You Into My Life de re de de de dum :-)

Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 04:18 AM

I saw that bloke who played the vicar in Serious Charge, not long before he died - he was in a play at The Thetre Royal in Nottingham.

He played the nazi south african in Ice Cold in Alex.

can't say I share your enthusiasm for Serious Charge. Mind you I was more of a The Duke Wore Jeans fan - I even used to buy sissy girls magazines like Roxy if Tommy was on the front.

Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll
From: Scrump
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 04:26 AM

Can't remember much about the film (Serious Charge) or Expresso Bongo, although I've seen them on telly years ago.

I think most of these films are mainly of interest now for their historical pop music (and social) content, rather than any great storylines, plot or acting (although some good actors did appear in some of them).

In the 1950s and 60s there were a lot of films issued as 'vehicles' for pop stars of the day (Cliff's Young Ones, Summer Holiday, Elvis's string of films, etc.) Some of these films were more or less like watching an episode of Top of the Pops (in the days before TOTP existed). I can remember films such as "Just For Fun" or "It's Trad Dad" that featured a lot of the pop stars of the time. I wonder if any of these are available now on DVD? They'd be fascinating to see again (even though they were probably cr*p as films!). Can anyone else remember these, or think of any others?

Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll
From: David C. Carter
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 04:41 AM

Wasn't there a film with the theme title'Some People'
Something like......Some people think that kids today have gone astray
But they don't know co's they're all mixed up too.

Can't recall the rest
Me brain hurts

David

Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll
From: Alec
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 04:42 AM

"It's Trad,Dad" is certainly available on DVD.Some of the others still get an airing on afternoon T.V. from time to time.
Only ever saw "Expresso Bongo" but it was certainly a far more intelligent film than some of Cliff's later offerings.

Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll
From: Alec
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 04:47 AM

Yes,David it featured the heartmeltingly good looking Aneke Wills who later became a Doctor Who girl & object of my first crush.

Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll
From: David C. Carter
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 05:34 AM

Alec, Thanks for that.I still remember the music,Often find it running through my head.And you're right about Aneke Wills,Ho Hum!

Cheers
David

Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll
From: Scrump
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 05:42 AM

Yes, "Some People" is another film of the type I'm thinking of. I can't actually remember seeing it, but I probably did. The theme song was recorded by Valerie Mountain, but there were a couple of other versions from Carole Deene (mentioned above in this thread) and Jet Harris, both IMO better than the 'official' one.

Most of these films had pretty dire plots about youth clubs, dastardly property developers hoping to bulldoze them, and teenagers forming bands to raise money to buy the site and save the youth club, so we had the excuse for the gigs to be filmed (OK that was more or less the plot of the Young Ones, but from what I remember, most of the other films had similar storylines).

(I can't remember Aneke Wills - what was her name in Dr Who? I can remember most of the other girls though :D)

Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll
From: Alec
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 05:49 AM

Slightly off topic but: Aneke Wills played Polly in (Late Hartnell & early Troughton era)Doctor who.
She also later co-starred in "Strange Report" & guested in at least one episode of "The Likely Lads."

Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll
From: David C. Carter
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 06:28 AM

I seem to remember a scene where a guy is sitting in the bath,wearing his jeans,waiting for them to shrink!
I tried it,my mother thought I was mad.She's since been proved right on that score!

Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll
From: Scrump
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 06:55 AM

I seem to remember a scene where a guy is sitting in the bath,wearing his jeans,waiting for them to shrink!
I tried it,my mother thought I was mad.She's since been proved right on that score!

Yes, instead of shrinking my jeans I just waited a few years until I got bigger round the middle :-)

Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 07:48 AM

Villan, you're right, Cliff Bennett and the Rebel Rousers were a great band. Slightly off-topic here because they most definitely were NOT R&R, but they sure could play Soul. They had a couple of LPs out, both of which were used as frisbees by my (then toddler) children, so I no longer have them. I recollect that, when I played with the support band on the live gigs we did with them, they did stroming versions of 'Beautiful Dreamer' and '6345789' - bloody marvellous! :-)

Question for the World At Large - anyone lnow if their stuff's available on CD?

Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 07:50 AM

I also have a recollection that the two guys who went on to become Chas & Dave were with them at that time, but it was a long time ago and my grey cells are disappearing by the day................!!

Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 07:52 AM

Stroming?? STORMING!! Told you my grey cells were going AWOL! LOL!

Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll
From: Alec
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 07:54 AM

Most of their back catalogue appears to be available on CD strollin'
Though as far as "Got To Get You Into My Life" goes, I still prefer the original.:-)

Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll
From: Scrump
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 08:20 AM

Yes, Cliff Bennett & The Rebel Rousers were a good band who sadly didn't get the success they deserved. I think "One Way Love" was their only hit. He had a strong voice and the band were good musicians. Maybe that was their problem :-)

Reminds me of the old Peter Sellers sketch about a 'svengali' type pop manager (an ex-army Major), where the interviewer is asking what qualities he looks for in a pop singer.

After he reels off the list, she asks: "I suppose a nice musical singing voice is what you look out for. Is that right?"

To which he replies: "By Jove yes! First sign of that and out he goes, what! (laughs)"

Full sketch words can be found here

Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 08:34 AM

"Expresso Bongo" was a movie version of a hit west end musical satire..
and was as 'adult' a movie as the producers could con past the censors
without an X cert..

[the special edition is worth the extra few quid for the directors commentary and a hiariously naff contemporary colour documentary
about soho coffee bars..]


.. and another similar favourite .. though perhaps more beatnik than rock 'n'roll

is "Beat Girl"..

but you probably need to find a bootleg of the uncut widescreen[european export? ]nudey strippers version

shown on Film 4 a few years ago..

Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 08:44 AM

strollin J - I saw Cliff Bennett and Rebel Rousers on a warner break somewhere in Norfolk about 8 years ago. That day I took a stroll down that street in Yarmouth where all the cheap discount cds are and there was indeed a cliff Bennet on cd for about two quid and of course he was flogging a cd at the gig.

Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 08:46 AM

oh.. and the DVD of "Expresso Bongo" is a shorter print
than shown on BBC about 25 years ago..

the 'daring' dance and backstage scenes still seem to be intact..

but for reasons unexplained..

about 3 songs by characters other than St.Cliff are missing..

Subject: RE: British Rock n Roll
From: Alec
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 08:47 AM

"Beat Girl" is probably the best of the U.K. "Exploitation" flicks.
Released as "Wild for kicks" in the U.S, starred Adam Faith with music by John Barry.