England's National Musical-Instrument?

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Nov 08 - 03:38 PM

Holly and the Ivy by David Franks,I dont think I have ever heard anything like it before,very unusual.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 20 Nov 08 - 04:01 PM

David,

I'm no great shakes as an instrumentalist or a singer. I accept that and whilst I might sing or play for my own enjoyment, I keep it to myself.

You have a terrible lack of talent. Your recordings on your myspace page are completely awful.

Why are putting yourself up for ridicule?

Can you really not notice how bad you are?

Do you wish to parade your oddities as if part of a Victorian freak show?

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Sleepy Rosie
Date: 20 Nov 08 - 04:52 PM

Dear Thready Posters,
Gosh, who or what is this famous WAV creature/thing that you all celebrate on here? It's the longest refreshed thread on Mudcat since I arrived, and whenever I glance at it, I see people referring to 'WAV'.

Is it some mythical folk beasty like the Silkie, or even the renowned singing Mermaid.

It must surely be famous or magically enchanting, or at least addictive. Or just maybe it's even Englands top-secret National Musical instrument? 'Cos although I keep seeing it discussed, dissected and referred to, I still don't quite know WTF it is!

Rosie the speculative

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Will Fly
Date: 20 Nov 08 - 05:13 PM

Rosie - you don't want to know - believe me - it's not for young innocent ears like yours...

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Nov 08 - 06:08 PM

W.A V.is WALKABOUT VERSE AKA David Franks

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: s&r
Date: 20 Nov 08 - 06:20 PM

Click on the 'Holly and the Ivy' link above and find out what really makes a folk voice Rosie

Stu

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 20 Nov 08 - 06:21 PM

I just looked David Franks up on the recently leaked BNP membership list.

He isn't on it.

I suspect this is just because he's too mean to put his money where his mouth is.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Don Firth
Date: 20 Nov 08 - 08:46 PM

I don't think David can hear himself, or doesn't fully comprehend what he does hear.

I have an old friend who is very much into folk music. Plays the guitar pretty well. And he sings. But he rarely sings in front of anyone else, and on those occasions, he has to be coaxed.

It's not that he's shy, God knows! But he has had asthma since he was a child and this has a profound effect on his singing ability. He can hear melodies just fine—nothing wrong with his ear—but there is a disconnect between his ear (clear mental concept of the notes he wants to sing) and his ability to reproduce those notes with his vocal mechanism. Among other things, his restricted lung capacity prevents him from using sufficient breath support, and his vocal cords simply will not respond accurately to his will. The result is that his singing sounds breathy and a bit hoarse, and he tends to sing flat.

He knows this. He can hear it. This is why he generally confines his singing to his own home, not wanting to inflict it on others. But whenever we have a songfest, we make darned sure he gets his turns and that he takes them. He's a really fine person and he loves the songs and loves to sing them. That is, he would love to be able to sing them. So we make sure he gets in his licks along with everybody else.

It would never occur to him to put his singing on MySpace. In fact, he'd be horrified at the idea.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Surreysinger
Date: 20 Nov 08 - 09:06 PM

Rosie - I hope you realise that Stu is, of course, joking. I finally gave way to curiosity and ventured onto that Myspace page, and it's suddenly hit me that what we have here is Folk's very own male counterpart of the wonderful Florence Foster Jenkins .... the same lack of essential pitch and breath control, and the same total belief in own singing ability!!!

I regret that I was unable to display the stamina to listen to more than one third of each of WAV's offerings - the supreme lack of pitch, and dire lack of breath control was so evident in each piece. The sad thing is, at one point I came to the conclusion that under it all there might be a decent voice, given some proper tuition in singing technique - the end of every line that looked as though it might get somewhere in terms of pitch (and there weren't many) was let down by the sudden loss of breath control leading to wavering pitch and tone. The items sung against recorder were interesting ... the Bells of Paradise rendition seemed to have what I would consider a conventional HARMONY, albeit pitched just sufficiently out to make you wince... but that's being charitable and assuming an intent on harmony, which WAV has consistently said that he doesn't consider to be right or allowable.

The interesting thing is the number of plays that he has had in a day ... presumably from people like me who just couldn't resist finding out just how bad it all was!

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Smokey
Date: 20 Nov 08 - 09:42 PM

"The interesting thing is the number of plays that he has had in a day"

I wonder how many managed to get through a whole song though?
I think it's actually worse than his older stuff.. unbelievable. WaV, if you insist on using folk music as a platform for your sick nationalist politics, my advice would be to at least make the music fit to listen to. This is music to slaughter pigs by.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: catspaw49
Date: 20 Nov 08 - 10:18 PM

OHMYGAWD!!!!!!!!

Look folks, I'm not much of a singer myself but for the love of crap I cannot believe what I just listened to!!! Based on recent posting on both the threads I am trying to be charitable towards Wavyfunkywhiteboyracist..........So I went off to have another listen and found Christmas had invaded his MySpace page.

YOU MUST GO LISTEN TO O COME ALL YE FAITHFUL...... I can assure you there is none other like his rendition and you will come away in awe. I was in awe. I was incredulous. No one in their right mind would put up something like that on a public website for any reason other than a joke!

I am totally serious. It must be a joke. Right? I had already decided to drop off these threads but thought I would try to bow out with the most charitable feelings possible towards WFWBR. But after that experience I simply had to make this post and invite you one and all to visit his MySpace page and check it out.

Here ya' go.....#6 is the MUST HEAR


Spaw

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Don Firth
Date: 21 Nov 08 - 12:20 AM

The Gospel of John, 11:35 (!)

Don Firth

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Smokey
Date: 21 Nov 08 - 01:07 AM

How can anyone get worse by practising?

Anyone ever heard of that before? I certainly haven't. I think I smell a rat.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 21 Nov 08 - 01:47 AM

With fear and trepidation I followed the link that Spaw kindly(?) provided.
Am not sure how I can describe the feeling of nausea.
Irene is right. Wav is either the Florence Foster Jenkins or Mrs Miller of folk music....
I'm going to download his songs for posterity, and put them in with my recording of Kenny Everetts Bottom 30!
He has to be preserved for posterity!!
It's not that he's so bad that is painful. We've all heard appaling singers and musicians in our time, and either left the room, or said Oh bless you for trying.
Thats no problem.
It's the inmitigated arrogance of the man. To tell people like Eliza and Don how songs should be sung????
It defies belief.
Off to download his songs now, before they get wiped!!

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: s&r
Date: 21 Nov 08 - 02:50 AM

Compare if you dare This is the ex champion.

Stu

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 21 Nov 08 - 02:53 AM

Swans sing before they die,
'twere no bad thing,
Should some folks die before they sing. [ anon ]

eric

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Gervase
Date: 21 Nov 08 - 03:04 AM

Christ on a bike! Thanks for the link Pat - that treatment really beggars description. There must be some way we can get this to a wider audience; it's the sort of thing that could become a viral phenomenon across the media. I see clips being played everywhere as the perfect antidote to Christmas. It is truly, breathtakingly bad. C'mon chaps - link to it as much as you can. Tell a friend that you've found the Eddie the Eagle of the recorder, that the spirit of Florence Foster Jenkins lives (even if it's in the shrivelled form of a workshy racist).
The sheer effrontery of the bloke is remarkable. Still Eliza, at least you now know what you and your family have been doing wrong all these years.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 21 Nov 08 - 03:08 AM

Hey Stu..Ms Jenkins is still the Guvnor!
Wav has get to do a lot more practising to get down to ner level!
Loved the Cat photos as well!!
Ralphie.....Where's WAV gone?

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Sleepy Rosie
Date: 21 Nov 08 - 04:16 AM

Hey it might not be the best I've heard, but it'd be absolutely perfect as a Christmas slasher-movie, pro-mo soundtrack!

Picture this: it's a classic American Dickensian consumerist fantasy scene.

Nice drunken slo-mo, of some Father Christmas masked psycho (of course no-body but us viewers realise he's very obviously a psycho). That jolly Santa mask...? But... it's somehow too joyful! And of course that mysterious haunting Christmas music...
Somehow, we just 'sense' something isn't quite right with this scene!

Glass is shattered, blood curdling screams are heard, and bright red blood gushes over virgin white snow.

"Santas back, Ho ho ho....
Have you been a good little girl this year?"

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: KEVINOAF
Date: 21 Nov 08 - 06:14 AM

in reply to SURREYSINGER
YOU ARE CORRECT concerning le Petomane being French , however his performances did not involve any form of mechanical amplification one of his clone performers at the time (a woman having a similar feminized stage name did in fact use the instrument nominated,she too was of course French}
I nominated the instrument because of the english preoccupation for talking with this oriface they might try doing something a little more creative with it.
or course the greatest source of prospective talent in this field lies in Westminster.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Surreysinger
Date: 21 Nov 08 - 07:57 AM

Stu - great choice of clip ... I posted that up as a fave on my Facebook profile some long while ago ... it's the bedraggled cat demanding its tuna at the end that I particularly like ... and the one with the electric cable in its mouth !!!!!

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Surreysinger
Date: 21 Nov 08 - 08:27 AM

Just out of interest I went back to You Tube ... there are an awful lot of clips of Florence on there, one quite interesting one about her accompanists (Cosme McMoon among them), and would you believe it, one about a play about her = "Glorious" .... way to go for WAV??

Seriously though, as you've been told many times before, David, you would be best advised to seek some advice and tuition from a decent singing coach. It sounds to me as though you possibly have the makings of a pleasant voice BUT your sense of pitch, breath support and rhythm are all seriously lacking. I don't think that there's anything there that couldn't be at least partially cured or assisted with a lot of hard work both from a teacher and from you... but at the moment it just ain't got it.... sorry.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 21 Nov 08 - 10:35 AM

I hadn't noticed before that WAV claims to be a Christian musician. So presumably there are Christian music forums that are getting the same kind of dialogue we see here and in uk.music.folk.

You'd think one of his fellow churchgoers would have pointed out by now that performances like that "O Come All Ye Faithful" rendition make a pretty compelling argument for converting to Satanism or the Taleban.

I can't imagine how he achieves that. You hear a lot of singers who can't hit the right pitch at the start of a note, but WAV quite often *does* hit it and then slithers away from it like a slug meeting a pile of salt.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 21 Nov 08 - 10:40 AM

Managed to drag my computer kicking and screaming to WAVs music site.
Downloaded offending items...!
I'd move house if I where you. Or expect a very nasty Christmas present!
(Mind you Floerence FJ wins hands down.....and why not check out MA Numminem too!...A rock opera whose subject is Wittgensteins thoughts on logical positivism....I'm sure Irene can provide a YouTube link!)
Thanks WAV for cheering up my day

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Gervase
Date: 21 Nov 08 - 10:52 AM

Well, the devil does have all the best tunes, so WAV probably thought it was best to avoid all tunes.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: catspaw49
Date: 21 Nov 08 - 01:32 PM

LOL Gervase......Perfect!

Spaw

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,surreysinger
Date: 21 Nov 08 - 09:09 PM

Ralphie ... only too happy to oblige!! Herewith the sublime rendition of Wittgenstein's thoughts, "Wovon man nicht sprechen kann..." by the said M A Numminem ....
as pointed out by Ian Blake elsewhere , the pianist in the background should be observed as he provides a distinct
homage to that wellknown work by John Cage ... so homages to two idols of our time in the one divine performance!! Enjoy!

It should be noted, however, the Numminem manages to stay more or less in pitch throughout .. although the homage to dear Flo is pretty evident throughout!! Lovely way to finish my birthday - thanks Ralphie!!

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,surreysinger
Date: 21 Nov 08 - 09:36 PM

Further to my last post, I have just found the following link, which provides details of M A Numminem's track record up to date . It makes very interesting reading ... the man was part of the Orgiastic Winnie the Pooh Big Band in his early days in the 1960's ... graduating to a film in 2000 entitled M A Numminem turns into Rabbit ... and is or has been in the throes of composing another piece of music based on philosophical treatises ... although having heard the whole of the Tractatus Suite (thanks for the introduction Ralphie!) I doubt whether it will be the same in nature!! His track record is vast ... and it is clear that his singing style is INTENTIONAL ... and he has been successful.

Someone (possibly Ralphie) made the observation way back in this thread that the one good thing that has come out of it all is the introduction to some very interesting information. Whereas I doubt I would pay to go and see Numminem, I nevertheless find his background fascinating ... and until today I had never actually gone looking for any detail... thanks WAV!

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,surreysinger
Date: 21 Nov 08 - 09:45 PM

Don - it's taken me this long to look up your Biblical quote ... LOL!!! even ROFL!

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Don Firth
Date: 21 Nov 08 - 10:41 PM

Very good. . .

Don Firth

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 22 Nov 08 - 12:25 AM

Thanks Irene.
Back to WAV though.
I'm reminded of the quote.
Jazz is knowing all the notes of a tune, and then playing all the other ones.
I've repaired the computer now. but it's stopped talking to me and gone into a sulk....

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Woody
Date: 22 Nov 08 - 04:31 AM

WAV's inspiration???? Les Dawson

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Nov 08 - 05:57 AM

Yesterday, Smokey said: How can anyone get worse by practising?

I don't think he has, Smokey. If you look at the recording dates the 'carols' are December '07 whereas 'Christmas Sung Simply' which is a big improvement in terms of vocal technique is August '08.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,surreysinger
Date: 22 Nov 08 - 05:58 AM

Ralphie - I'm not surprised that your computer is having a strop ...it's obviously sensitive ... call out the RSPCC !! So you're now suggesting that WAV is an exponent of the jazz genre?

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 22 Nov 08 - 07:21 AM

After playing and singing "Down in Yon Forest" many times, I did change the key before recording my Christmas tracks about a year ago, and my singing of it does need more work...I may drop it shortly and re-do it one day with "organ" rather than "piano" accompaniment.
But, as for the others, including "O Come all Ye Faithful", a year on, I think the quality is about the same.

Jazz is an aspect of American culture, SURREYsinger - I'll keep working at playing and singing just the unadorned unadulterated tunes of English chants, carols, hymns and folk-songs, thanks.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 22 Nov 08 - 07:57 AM

Oh WAV....You just don't get it do you???
God you must have the hide of a Rhino!
Your recordings are unmitigated rubbish.
And Jazz is American Eh? I'll mention that to Courtney Pine next time I see him. Sadly can't inform Humphrey Littleton.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Surreysinger
Date: 22 Nov 08 - 07:58 AM

Sigh.... you have a long way to go with your working at playing and singing David, and also it seems with construing ironic content.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 22 Nov 08 - 08:14 AM

I've never seen anyone play the recorder like this moron, he's got it up his nose fer fecks sake.

WalkaboutsVerse has got 7004 friends,[ in his own mind.]


eric

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 22 Nov 08 - 08:51 AM

Having downloaded the offending items, I've got lots of people that I don't like who are now going to have a miserable Christmas.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Jeri
Date: 22 Nov 08 - 09:20 AM

It's not WAV who 'just doesn't get it'.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Nov 08 - 10:05 AM

"I may drop it shortly and re-do it one day with "organ" rather than "piano" accompaniment."
Oh Please Don't....Please Please Please.......It's rubbish already.
What did we do so wrong to suffer this?
Have I been strangling Cats or something?

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 22 Nov 08 - 10:08 AM

That was me sorry !

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Woody
Date: 22 Nov 08 - 10:59 AM

WAV - can't you hear the problems with "Oh come all ye faithful?" Don't you understand how poor it is?

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Stu
Date: 22 Nov 08 - 11:36 AM

Don't listen to 'em WAV - you stick with it son.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 22 Nov 08 - 11:45 AM

"I've never seen anyone play the recorder like this moron, he's got it up his nose fer fecks sake." (Eric)...while waiting for a singaround to kick-off, a chap (who was very good at quickly learning new tunes by ear, and who had a wooden tenor-recorder with him) wanted to "nick my tunes" - and very soon he was indeed playing them in very close unison with both my tenor recorder playing and singing.

And as for leaning toward "organ" rather than "piano" setting on my keyboards - it may be slightly better given my way of trying to play like I sing and sing like I play (i.e, no fade-out on the former).

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 22 Nov 08 - 11:57 AM

close unison . . . .CLOSE UNISON?

Is that another way of saying Good Enough For Folk?

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Don Firth
Date: 22 Nov 08 - 12:31 PM

Um . . . David, there is no such thing as "close unision." It is either unison or it is not. "Close" is still a miss.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Smokey
Date: 22 Nov 08 - 01:49 PM

"Yesterday, Smokey said: How can anyone get worse by practising?

I don't think he has, Smokey. If you look at the recording dates the 'carols' are December '07 whereas 'Christmas Sung Simply' which is a big improvement in terms of vocal technique is August '08."


This seemed to be anonymous, but I must confess I hadn't seen the dates. It's my own fault for not wiping my eyes whilst I was listening. Sometimes one is just too overwhelmed with emotion to pay attention to details.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 22 Nov 08 - 04:39 PM

Further to Down in Yon Forest/Corpus Christi Carol: having not bothered with carols for a year, I just checked my notes and I first learnt it from DigiTrad in Eb but, finding the fingering difficult, I changed to C when I saw it that way in the "Oxford Christmas Carol Book"; for what it's worth, my fingering has improved a bit and I intend to re-do it in Eb for next year, as that key suits my voice better.
"Christmas Sung Simply"/"As Gospellers Have Said", Smokey, is the very last piece in both my book/website "Walkabouts" and my CD "Chants from Walkabouts" and, again for what it's worth, I've just finished working out/writing the tunes for all 17 Chants, so will probably have an accompanied version of "CSS" ready for next year, also.

Subject: no such thing
From: peregrina
Date: 22 Nov 08 - 05:16 PM

This comes from a post in the BS thread.

I find it intriguing that the focus here is ENGLISH rather than, say, Lincolnshire, Lancashire, Yorkshire or Northumbrian regional instruments.

It seems to me that an English identity is oppositional, and is sharpened by the need for definition AGAINST those over a border (to Scotland or Wales). It is, in other words, self definition that is negatively constructed AGAINST a non-English OTHER.

Whereas a regional area identity is far more 'real' in the sense of being associated with specific regional dialect, food, field and farming traditions, vernacular architecture and so forth.
There is no homogenous pan-English identity--it's a label of political designation , but any investigation looking for an English instrument that had any historical depth would have to take account of regional diversity.