BS: Umpqua: the gun was innocent...

Subject: RE: BS: Umpqua: the gun was innocent...
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Oct 15 - 08:31 AM

think about it Mike....300 million

not 300 thousand.....not 3 million....not 30 million...

it would make prohibition or stopping the drug trade be like a logistical doodle..

think of poor Erskine Childers executed for being in possession of a gun.

i think you would have many willing martyrs to this cause.

Subject: RE: BS: Umpqua: the gun was innocent...
From: Raggytash
Date: 12 Oct 15 - 08:48 AM

I know this is a long shot, a very long shot in fact but if a few people voluntarily handed their weapons in, then maybe a few more may be tempted to do the same and it may snowball a little and then it may snowball some more and when enough people have handed their weapons over, perhaps, just perhaps there may be a sufficient number of people against holding weapons that the state could legislate against guns being held by individuals.

Like I said a long shot but you have to start somewhere otherwise we will continue to read of these frequent massacres.

Subject: RE: BS: Umpqua: the gun was innocent...
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 12 Oct 15 - 08:57 AM

Childers was wilfully & perversely caught up in the Irish troubles which followed the Easter Rising for years. Can't see what possible relevance you imagine, Al, that his fate has to this kingsize rod·for·its·own back which America has permitted itself to become subject to. If the #s involved have evolved to such a level of apparent unmanageability, then it is surely up to those of goodwill to stop throwing up their ☞·☜ in helpless horror and find some way out of this intolerable impasse in which they have become nationally embroiled.

Or else they can go on mowing one another down like there's no tomorrow. Won't make the remotest difference to me -- so long as none of my many dear friends and relations over there are among the inevitable rollcall of victims.

≈M≈

Subject: RE: BS: Umpqua: the gun was innocent...
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 Oct 15 - 09:57 AM

Ya sure?

Absolutely.

Subject: RE: BS: Umpqua: the gun was innocent...
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 12 Oct 15 - 10:05 AM

Why not, Greg?

Honest, now...

Subject: RE: BS: Umpqua: the gun was innocent...
From: Jack Campin
Date: 12 Oct 15 - 10:40 AM

I am going to repeat this (deleted by some gun-nut mod).

Some US states have a law that no convicted sex offender is allowed within a certain distance of a school.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8110356.stm

Gun owners are a far worse risk to kids than perverts. So how about proposing a law to restrict their movements in a similar way? It wouldn't get passed, but floating the idea would send the right message: they're ALL creepy weirdos who could kill at any time.

And yes, I include all the Mudcatters who've put themselves in that category. I know who a few of you are and I never intend to be in the same room with you.

Subject: RE: BS: Umpqua: the gun was innocent...
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 Oct 15 - 03:11 PM

Why not, Greg? Honest, now...


History. And precedent.

Look up what Robert Kennedy was proposing a week before he was gunned down. And that was LONG before the NRA went off the reservation ....

Subject: RE: BS: Umpqua: the gun was innocent...
From: Ebbie
Date: 12 Oct 15 - 10:01 PM

Raggytash's suggestion makes me think of the Ice Bucket fad. ??

Subject: RE: BS: Umpqua: the gun was innocent...
From: GUEST,#
Date: 12 Oct 15 - 10:07 PM

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local/article/Man-on-far-North-Side-mistakes-wife-for-intruder-6563251.php

Yep.

Subject: RE: BS: Umpqua: the gun was innocent...
From: Joe Offer
Date: 13 Oct 15 - 06:43 AM

I live in an area where I'm surrounded by gun fanatics. A couple years ago, four new cars at the local Chevrolet dealer were damaged by gunshots. In a letter to the editor of the local newspaper, I said it seemed to be a situation of too many people owning too many guns.

In letters of response, I was told I ought to move out of the county if I didn't like guns. The language in the letters was more than a little bit scary. I've had guns pointed at me three times in my lifetime - always by so-called "righteous" people, never by "bad guys." We don't need to worry about criminals as much as we think - it's the righteous people we need to look out for.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Umpqua: the gun was innocent...
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Oct 15 - 07:09 AM

Maybe some more progressive church leaders could start a national

"God says no to guns" Campaign...


"There are no guns in the bible"

"No entry to heaven if you're packing"

"The Devil welcomes careless shooters"

etc etc etc [more at TeeShirtSlogansRus.com]

See if the big beardy old man in the sky's disapproval makes any difference.... 😇

Subject: RE: BS: Umpqua: the gun was innocent...
From: Wesley S
Date: 13 Oct 15 - 08:44 AM

And "Heaven is a gun free zone"?

Subject: RE: BS: Umpqua: the gun was innocent...
From: GUEST,#
Date: 14 Oct 15 - 10:18 AM

There was a great suggestion on Facebook about how to get the gun thing in America under control. Require that all gun owners carry liability insurance. The insurance industry would have the gun industry by the short and curlies in less than a year, second amendment notwithstanding. I think it's a brilliant idea and worthy of consideration.

Subject: RE: BS: Umpqua: the gun was innocent...
From: Ebbie
Date: 14 Oct 15 - 05:27 PM

I agree, Guest #.

Subject: RE: BS: Umpqua: the gun was innocent...
From: Jack Campin
Date: 15 Oct 15 - 07:27 PM

These people shoot an American a week with complete legal impunity:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2015/10/14/people-are-getting-shot-by-toddlers-on-a-weekly-basis-this-year/

Subject: RE: BS: Umpqua: the gun was innocent...
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Oct 15 - 07:37 PM

bloody hell !!!

where's Mary Poppins when the Yanks really need her...!!!??? 😬

Subject: RE: BS: Umpqua: the gun was innocent...
From: GUEST,#
Date: 15 Oct 15 - 07:41 PM

Require that all gun owners carry liability insurance.

Subject: RE: BS: Umpqua: the gun was innocent...
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Oct 15 - 08:20 PM

Would also help to require that Republican Senators and Congressmen have an IQ above 12.

Subject: RE: BS: Umpqua: the gun was innocent...
From: frogprince
Date: 15 Oct 15 - 08:35 PM

Guns don't kill people,
Toddlers kill people.

Subject: RE: BS: Umpqua: the gun was innocent...
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 19 Oct 15 - 09:29 AM

And again: guns in the house? This is what you will end up with.

Subject: RE: BS: Umpqua: the gun was innocent...
From: Jack Campin
Date: 21 Oct 15 - 08:11 AM

Florida excels itself with two in a couple of days:

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/oct/19/florida-shooting-zombie-con-police-suspect

I haven't seen any followup to the reports that there was a Christian picket of the event immediately before the shooting. Anybody local know what church was involved and if they have a record of sectarian violence?

And Florida extends its open season on blacks:

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/10/20/us/florida-officer-shooting/index.html
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/oct/21/corey-jones-shooting-officer-involved-had-previous-suspension-threat

Having a gun did a lot to protect Jones, didn't it? About as useful as it was to this cop in Minnesota:

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/10/18/us/minnesota-deputy-killed/

At least the toddlers aren't getting it all their own way:

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/10/21/us/child-road-rage-death/index.html

Subject: RE: BS: Umpqua: the gun was innocent...
From: GUEST, ^*^
Date: 21 Oct 15 - 10:47 AM

A Texas woman was just blown away with a shotgun at 4am in her home when her husband heard movement in the living room and fired without saying anything or turning on a light.

Subject: RE: BS: Umpqua: the gun was innocent...
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 Oct 15 - 10:54 AM

Darwin?

Subject: RE: BS: Umpqua: the gun was innocent...
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 21 Oct 15 - 06:12 PM

I was in Oregon when this happened...I live close by...and we can not go into a store in this area without thinking of it because a local brand of ice cream is Umpqua from there.

Subject: RE: BS: Umpqua: the gun was innocent...
From: Jack Campin
Date: 21 Oct 15 - 06:46 PM

I see the gun-nut mod has gone berserk again. I have posted several news links to related manifestations of US gun culture over the last few days - they have been deleted and so have responses by people like "#" and Peter Laban (all agreeing with me as far as I could see).

Whoever you are, you gutless anonymous twat, fuck you.

Subject: RE: BS: Umpqua: the gun was innocent...
From: Bill D
Date: 21 Oct 15 - 07:41 PM

Some are trying....

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/10/15/california-official-to-propose-background-checks-for-ammunition-purchase.html

The NRA, of course, claims the "slippery slope" defense

It is slow, but wheels ARE turning...

Subject: RE: BS: Umpqua: the gun was innocent...
From: GUEST,#
Date: 21 Oct 15 - 09:24 PM

Jack, the last post I made to this thread was

Subject: RE: BS: Umpqua: the gun was innocent...
From: GUEST,#
Date: 15 Oct 15 - 07:41 PM

so I suspect it was a troll doing an impersonation. I do agree with you btw, but I choose to express my views in a different manner. My thoughts have pretty much been concerned with the Canadian election recently and the few breaks I took from that dealt with other things on Mudcat. I think that the deleted posts were because it was a troll. I know a few of the moderators and truth be told they are not as nefarious as some folks think. In fact, they are really good people and we are fortunate to have them. Best wishes to you.

Subject: RE: BS: Umpqua: the gun was innocent...
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 22 Oct 15 - 04:25 AM

My few posts to this thread are still there.

Subject: RE: BS: Umpqua: the gun was innocent...
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Oct 15 - 12:40 PM

Interesting Article Here

Subject: RE: BS: Umpqua: the gun was innocent...
From: GUEST,bitsey
Date: 13 Nov 15 - 07:25 AM

" it's the righteous people we need to look out for."
Exactly. Ribhteous people who hate guns.

Subject: RE: BS: Umpqua: the gun was innocent...
From: GUEST,Charlie
Date: 14 Nov 15 - 06:41 AM

"France outlaws most gun ownership and it's almost impossible to legally acquire a high-powered rifle such as an AK-47, so where did the weapons in the Nov. 13 terror attack—not to mention the bloody January assault by Islamic terrorists on the Paris office of Charlie Hebdo magazine and the 2012 shootings by a militant in Toulouse— come from?"

Getting rid of guns does not solve anything. It makes matters worse because people are unable to defend themselves. Killers will get guns no matter what even if they have to make them. Remember zip guns?

Subject: RE: BS: Umpqua: the gun was innocent...
From: Greg F.
Date: 14 Nov 15 - 09:10 AM

Last post compliments of Dr. Batshit Crazy, or his campaign organizers.

Subject: RE: BS: Umpqua: the gun was innocent...
From: Rapparee
Date: 14 Nov 15 - 09:50 AM

Guess what? You can get a gun anywhere if you know the right people and are willing to pay enough.

Strip a gun and ship the components. Would you know a sear if you saw one? Or a trigger spring from any other spring? Or hide the entire weapon in a cargo of pipes, or inside a bag of cement. Or have a machine shop available and build it -- the plans are available. Or use one left over from one of the many wars.

As for self-defense, that's a specious argument. First, the baddies have to fire first (it's just not done to shoot someone because you think he or she might be a bad 'un). Secondly, it you're armed you're the first target. Thirdly, unless you've been in actual, blood-and-brains-on-the-ground combat you have no idea how you will react when someone is shooting at you with the intent to kill. Fourthly, the police or military will be shooting anyone who is "not one of us" who has a gun.

And you will get this thread closed if you keep using it as a mouthpiece for your views.

Subject: RE: BS: Umpqua: the gun was innocent...
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Nov 15 - 01:36 PM

Absolutely spot-on Rap.

Subject: RE: BS: Umpqua: the gun was innocent...
From: Lighter
Date: 14 Nov 15 - 04:57 PM

Rap is 100% correct.

However, Donald Trump insists that with laxer gun laws in Paris, "the situation would have been very different."

And Newt Gingrich warns that every American who can get a permit to carry had better start doing so - before it's too late.

So who ya gonna believe?

Subject: RE: BS: Umpqua: the gun was innocent...
From: Greg F.
Date: 14 Nov 15 - 06:10 PM

Unfortunately, there are millions of idiots who WILL believe Trump & preety soon we'll have the O.K Corral redux all across the U.S.

Subject: RE: BS: Umpqua: the gun was innocent...
From: GUEST,Batshit Crazy
Date: 14 Nov 15 - 10:28 PM

"You don't need an AR-15." "Buy a shotgun. Buy a shotgun"

Subject: RE: BS: Umpqua: the gun was innocent...
From: GUEST,Charlie
Date: 17 Nov 15 - 02:35 PM

"Gun owners are a far worse risk to kids than perverts."
Howso? Please explain.

Subject: RE: BS: Umpqua: the gun was innocent...
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Nov 15 - 03:21 PM

Shotgun 20 inch police barrel and 00 buck, that's my home security system

Subject: RE: BS: Umpqua: the gun was innocent...
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Nov 15 - 03:30 PM

If you want a real saw off shotgun just spend 200 bucks for the tax stamp then you can cut it any size legally

Subject: RE: BS: Umpqua: the gun was innocent...
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Nov 15 - 03:41 PM

There's your answer, Charlie.

Subject: RE: BS: Umpqua: the gun was innocent...
From: GUEST,Charlie
Date: 17 Nov 15 - 04:54 PM

I prefer a 50 cal ala rambo.

Subject: RE: BS: Umpqua: the gun was innocent...
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Nov 15 - 05:25 PM

12. 33 caliber pellets, attacker problem solved

Subject: RE: BS: Umpqua: the gun was innocent...
From: GUEST,raggytash
Date: 17 Nov 15 - 06:59 PM

You guys are crazy!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Umpqua: the gun was innocent...
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Nov 15 - 12:36 AM

Wish I still had my Johnny Seven O.M.A ...💥

Subject: RE: BS: Umpqua: the gun was innocent...
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 18 Nov 15 - 04:13 PM

Guns don't actually protect you-if they did, no one would ever die in combat.

Subject: RE: BS: Umpqua: the gun was innocent...
From: Greg F.
Date: 18 Nov 15 - 05:23 PM

Guns don't kill people, wars kill people......

Subject: RE: BS: Umpqua: the gun was innocent...
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 19 Nov 15 - 10:46 AM

There are lots of things that people use to kill other people. A lot of people seem to object to the guns, rather than the killing.

In the bloodiest battle in history, Hannibal's assault on Canae, something akin to 70,000 lives were lost in a single day. And not a gun in sight.

The most murderous single act in history, the destruction of the   dikes on the Yellow River on June 5 and June 7 in 1938 is claimed to have resulted in 900,000 deaths. The dikes were destroyed with explosives, and water did the rest.

The 1-2 million killed in the Rwandan Genocide were mostly dispatched with machetes. I could go on.

That said, I don't think that guns should be left out so that toddlers can kill their family members, that people should be allowed to shoot up Chevy Dealerships, or that, as seems to be happening in Enid, Oklahoma, people should drive around shooting windows out of passing cars


There seems to be a sentiment here that "gun control" will solve everything, but the common element in all of these atrocities is not gun ownership, it is a willful, murderous intent, and gun legislation doesn't regulate that.

Subject: RE: BS: Umpqua: the gun was innocent...
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Nov 15 - 01:54 PM

But it makes it far more difficult for those of wilful, murderous intent to have the means to carry out that intent.

Subject: RE: BS: Umpqua: the gun was innocent...
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 20 Nov 15 - 10:01 AM

My point above was that it is not that difficult to find other options.

I don't have time to pull up and link the sources for this and I probably shouldn't mention it, but... In the US, the majority of shooting deaths are suicides. One sad thing that the US and the UK share is that we have very similar suicide rates. In the UK, perhaps because guns are less available, hanging is the preferred means.

Again, I am not a gun rights person, I am just saying that the simple solutions are not going to solve the problem.