What notion? (Grateful Dead)

Subject: What notion? (Grateful Dead)
From: Cool Beans
Date: 21 Mar 07 - 09:56 AM

In "Riding That Train," what notion just crossed their mind? To get high on cocaine? That there's trouble ahead and behind? What?

Subject: RE: What notion? (Grateful Dead)
From: Wesley S
Date: 21 Mar 07 - 10:12 AM

Actually the song is called "Casey Jones".

The rest of your questions are open to interpretation. Ask the crow.

Subject: RE: What notion? (Grateful Dead)
From: jeffp
Date: 21 Mar 07 - 10:34 AM

You'll just get the same story. It's the only one he knows.

Subject: RE: What notion? (Grateful Dead)
From: pdq
Date: 21 Mar 07 - 10:39 AM

"trouble ahead, trouble behind"

Subject: RE: What notion? (Grateful Dead)
From: Wesley S
Date: 21 Mar 07 - 10:46 AM

Yow know in the heat of the sun a man died of cold.

Subject: RE: What notion? (Grateful Dead)
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 21 Mar 07 - 10:59 AM

Given the Dead's close association with Ken Kesey and the Merry Pranksters, it's possibly an allusion to Kesey's novel Sometimes a Great Notion. The book's title is taken from the verse in the Leadbelly song "Goodnight Irene":

Sometimes I live in the country
Sometimes I live in the town
Sometimes I take a great notion
To jump in the river and drown

That's not to say that the notion lyricist Robert Hunter had in mind was to jump into a river, only that it could be a subtle referrence to Kesey, and to Leadbelly as well.

Subject: RE: What notion? (Grateful Dead)
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 15 Aug 08 - 01:35 AM

Leadbelly? I don't know, but its been said it's hard to run with the weight of lead.

Subject: RE: What notion? (Grateful Dead)
From: GUEST,Gerry
Date: 15 Aug 08 - 08:54 AM

I don't know, but I've been told it's just as hard with the weight of gold.

Subject: RE: What notion? (Grateful Dead)
From: Jayto
Date: 15 Aug 08 - 09:07 AM

I'm sure you all have heard the real legend of Casey Jones haven't you?

Casey Jones from Wikipedia

Here is a link to the wikipedia entry for Casey Jones.

Subject: RE: What notion? (Grateful Dead)
From: PoppaGator
Date: 15 Aug 08 - 01:15 PM

I just posted a comment in the new "favorite songwriters" thread, venturing my opinion that a lot of Mudcatters might be missing something because of their closed-minded refusal to consider the Dead as serious musicians extending folk traditons into the present and future. I'm afraid that there are many who won't even listen, who are content to stick with their opinion ("just a bunch of talentless druggies") without even considering any actual evidence.

I'm glad to see this discussion proving me more-or-less wrong ~ at least among our American brethern, there are obviously a number of folks fully cogniscent of the Hunter/Garcia songbook.

Still, I fear that too many of our hard-core "purists" keep their minds and ears closed to to an awful lot of worthwhile music, including but not limited to this particular group. Sometime earlier this week, I read a complaint that the sanctity of the corresppondant's local folk club was being besmirched by people daring to sing (horrors!) the blues! If the blues ain't folk music, I suppose I'm not interested in folk music, lol.

The late lamented Grateful Dead created a tremendous legacy of contemporary music unique for its deep roots in the complete spectrum of American folk-music traditions. Anyone who has no idea what we're talking about here should at least give 'em a listen. (Hint: Start out with the "Workingman's Dead" and/or "American Beauty" albums.)

Subject: RE: What notion? (Grateful Dead)
From: Wesley S
Date: 15 Aug 08 - 01:26 PM

Or even try listening to "Old and in the Way" - Jerry's blugrass group. Or several of his recordings with David Grisman. Such as "Not For Kids Only", "Been All Around This World" or "Shady Grove"

Subject: RE: What notion? (Grateful Dead)
From: GUEST,cStu
Date: 15 Aug 08 - 01:47 PM

It's the notion that their potion quotient has exceeded their devotion to locomotion

forsooth

Subject: RE: What notion? (Grateful Dead)
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 15 Aug 08 - 02:05 PM

I don't know, I think they always had an ocean of potion locomotion.

Poppagator, right on the money! Sure there was a very significant psychedelic component to the Dead, but their grounding in folk, bluegrass, and country traditional music was always evident. They were definite proponents of the so-called "Folk Process" to the point of taking traditional music and intentionally adding verses or re-working entire melodies to create something new with an old flavor, take Casey Jones, Tennessee Jed, and Dupree's Diamond Blues as examples. Those who condemn the Grateful Dead based on freeform electric jams like New Potato Caboose and because of their legion of Deadhead followers are overlooking a prime doorway that admits fans of pop and rock n roll into the world of traditional music.

Subject: RE: What notion? (Grateful Dead)
From: michaelr
Date: 15 Aug 08 - 06:28 PM

See this entry in The Annotated Grateful Dead Lyrics.

Subject: RE: What notion? (Grateful Dead)
From: pdq
Date: 16 Aug 08 - 11:08 AM

A near-perfect record by the Grateful Dead is "Dead Reckoning", a rather long CD, having been originally a 2 lp set. The Song "Babe, It Ain't no Lie" was left off the CD to make the CD's time limit.

This is a collection of song gleaned from warm-up sets done in 1980. Lesh plays electric bass, but both Bob Weir and Jerry Garcia appear to be playing Martins, I think Jerry has a D-18. This record gives a different take on many of the Grateful Dead's classic songs. It may be a better choice, in some ways, than "Working Man's Dead" or "American Beauty" since those are studio efforts. "Dead Reckoning" is live, which is what they did best.

BTW, the John Hurt version of "Casey Jones" is on the Jerry Garcia Band record "Almost Acoustic". It is, of course, a completely different song than the GD composition discussed here.

Subject: RE: What notion? (Grateful Dead)
From: Mick Woods
Date: 16 Aug 08 - 11:38 AM

They are (were) true folkies. Norma waterson even does a GD song!

Subject: RE: What notion? (Grateful Dead)
From: Barbara
Date: 16 Aug 08 - 01:43 PM

There are a whole lot of deep roots to the Dead songs, roots in country, folk, rock, blues and old time traditional sources. As singer and guitar player of modest talent, I have always thought that one of the main reasons the Dead are not done more has to do with their amazing time sense. (That could possibly be enhanced by their substance consumption). I once had a really skilled guitar player do "Ripple" for/with me and I could see how tricky the time/syncopation was.
I hadn't thought about the significance of "that notion". I like Bee's explanation. But, guys, it's poetry, and it's not supposed to follow a direct path anywhere.
Blessings,
Barbara

Subject: RE: What notion? (Grateful Dead)
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 16 Aug 08 - 04:20 PM

Barbara

You think Ripple is tricky, try The Eleven!

I am trying to work out one of my favorite Hunter-Garcia trad-sounding songs, Mountains of the Moon and have this so far

Mountains Of The Moon
Lyrics: Robert Hunter
Music: Jerry Garcia

(G)Cold mountain(F) water, the(Dm) jade merchant's (G)daughter
(G)Mountains of the(F) moon, Electra, (Dm)bow and bend to (G)me
(G)Hi-ho, the (F)carrion crow, (Dm)folderol-de-(G)riddle
(G)Hi-ho, the (F)carrion crow,(Dm) bow and bend to (G)me

Hey, Tom (G)Banjo
Hey, a (G)laurel
(Dm)More than laurel (G)you may sow
(Dm)More than laurel (G)you may sow
(G)Hey, the laurel,(G) hey, the (F)city (D)in the (G)rain
Hey, (D)hey, (F)hey the (C>wild wheat waving in the (Dm)wind

(G)Twenty degrees of (F)solitude,(Dm) twenty degrees in (G)all
(G)All the dancing(F) kings and wives (Dm)assembled in the (G)hall
(G)Lost is the long and(F) loneliest time,(Dm) fairy Sybil (G)flying
(G)All along the,(F) all along the (Dm)mountains of the (G)moon

Hey, Tom (G)Banjo
(C>It's time to(G) matter
(Dm)The earth will see you on(G) through this time
(Dm)The earth will see you on (G)through this time
(G)Down by the water, the (G)marsh king's (F)daughter, (D)did you (G)know?
Clothed in (D)tatters, (F)always will be, Tom where did you (Dm)go?

(G)Mountains of the (F)moon, Electra, (Dm)mountains of the (G)moon
(G)All along the,(F) all along the (Dm)mountains of the (G)moon
(G)Heigh ho, the (F)carrion crow, (Dm)folderol-de-(G)riddle
(G)Heigh ho, the (F)carrion crow, (Dm)bow and bend to (G)me
Bend to (Dm)me

Anyone else know this one? It seems that there is no chord or tab chart of the net as of yet. I would appreciate any comments or corrections on this beautiful old chestnut.

Subject: RE: What notion? (Grateful Dead)
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 16 Aug 08 - 04:21 PM

Subject: RE: What notion? (Grateful Dead)
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 16 Aug 08 - 04:23 PM

Oops. I inadvertently left the (C) out of the two lines that begin "hey Tom Banjo".

Subject: RE: What notion? (Grateful Dead)
From: Ref
Date: 17 Aug 08 - 10:55 AM

I like this thread becauseI like Dead music and because I've read a lot about their background. Garcia started out as VERY trad bluegrass musician. All of them, except for Bob Weir, had great musical resumes and Weir obviously had talent to spare. They fused folk,'grass, rock, and blues in their songbook. The addictions they battled were sad, butthey shouldn't detract from a fair appraisal of their work.

Subject: RE: What notion? (Grateful Dead)
From: Jayto
Date: 17 Aug 08 - 02:39 PM

The Dead influenced a ton of younger musicians. I know alot of guys that started in rock and heavy metal then somehow turned on to the Dead. After a little while they all started playing folk and bluegrass. I have seen that scenario play out quite a few times over the years. I am not a big fan of the dead but hey they have my respect. I wish I could get out of them what alot of people do but I just don't. I think they were a great band but just not my thing. I cannot downplay thier influence though.

Subject: RE: What notion? (Grateful Dead)
From: GUEST,Dave MacKenzie
Date: 17 Aug 08 - 07:26 PM

I got turned on to the Dead after hearing a member of the Scottish Traveller community singing "Casey Jones" in the late 60s!

Subject: RE: What notion? (Grateful Dead)
From: M.Ted
Date: 17 Aug 08 - 09:41 PM

If you are a "folkie" of a certain age, you could, and did play most of the tunes on the Dead's first album when you jammed with people, and when you performed, you had a full set of Dead stuff--

You couldn't and can't find tunes that are more traditional and rootsy than "Viola Lee Blues" and "New Minglewood Blues", and, be honest now, everybody played "Friend of the Devil"--

Subject: RE: What notion? (Grateful Dead)
From: pdq
Date: 17 Aug 08 - 10:01 PM

"New Potato Caboose", Lonesome EJ?

Shows up originally on "Anthem of the Sun" but was played live only 20 times.

Well, Lonesome EJ, I will defer to you in all future discussions of the Dead. You da Man! I did, however, see then once, 20 OCT 1974, considered one of their best nights. *smile*

Subject: RE: What notion? (Grateful Dead)
From: Dave Ruch
Date: 27 Nov 16 - 08:58 PM

Dave MacKenzie, would love to hear more about that if you're still reading these posts...