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BS: What Survival foods?
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Subject: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: GUEST,Eater Date: 27 Mar 07 - 09:12 PM I want to set aside a supply of emergency food for myself and my family, but I'm not sure how to go about it. Any suggestions? I live in the U.S. I was thinking of the dehydrated kind, but then I ran across freeze dried food, so the decisions already begin. Does anyone know what the difference would be between freeze dried and dehydrated? Any advice from experience or any ideas would be appreciated. Thanks. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: GUEST,worker Date: 27 Mar 07 - 09:17 PM What kind of disaster(s) are you expecting? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: Rapparee Date: 27 Mar 07 - 09:19 PM And how long are you planning for? A "72 hour" kit is quite different from a supply for a year or more. And where do you live? One size doesn't fit all. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: Bobert Date: 27 Mar 07 - 09:19 PM beer... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: GUEST,Eater Date: 27 Mar 07 - 09:20 PM Just disruption of food delivery. If food can't get to the markets, I'd like to have some back-up. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: Peace Date: 27 Mar 07 - 09:22 PM Having food available is part of the issue. The other part is having water. There are many, many things to consider. Amongst those things are caloric intake vs caloric necessity; nutrient values; ability to cook the food you do have; water to cook it with--water that is safe; heat you'll need; shelter; what it is you think you need to be prepared for; length of time you will need the food supply. There are too many factors for you to 'start from scratch'. There are some sites that will help you make decisions. Here is one. http://www.zyz.com/survivalcenter/index.html You will get many suggestions and most of them good. However, IMO, reading is step one. That site has a good basic overview available for a few bucks. Best to you and your family. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: Bee-dubya-ell Date: 27 Mar 07 - 09:23 PM Plant a garden. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: Peace Date: 27 Mar 07 - 09:23 PM Sorry. Didn't see your post, eater. The site I linked to is a good place to look. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: Rapparee Date: 27 Mar 07 - 09:26 PM Canned food is usually good for several years. Be sure to check the "use by" dates. Some are coded though, so ask the store manager. Since you'd be sitting at home and you don't seem concerned about water or power interruptions, I'd get a mixture of canned and freeze-dried. At home you should have space to store them. A vegetable garden would be a good idea as well. That would give you fresh veggies in the warm months. Concentrate on what you and your family likes in the way of food. Vitamin supplements should be included, and DON'T forget to rotate your stock. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: GUEST,Eater Date: 27 Mar 07 - 09:40 PM A 2-year supply for 3. Water will soon be taken care of with a solar or hand-pump well. We're going to look into gardening seed kits and may lay out the garden area but don't know when gardening would begin. Having the seed and tools and space prepared is in the planning. We have plenty of defensive weapons but could use a varmint and a hunting rifle, for fresh meat. Vitamins are going to be the first thing we stock up on, when we find a half-price sale. I went through this years ago on a small scale, but nothing like what I'm thinking of now. I'll look at the link. Thanks all. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: Peace Date: 27 Mar 07 - 09:44 PM If things are that desperate, you'll need more than just food. You'll need some way to protect that food. You seem to be contemplating a complete breakdown of the social order. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: GUEST,worker Date: 27 Mar 07 - 09:50 PM I suggest you form a cohesive gang. Seriously. When social order breaks down it would be difficult trying to protect and feed a family on your own. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: GUEST,worker Date: 27 Mar 07 - 09:54 PM I got that gang idea from reading an interview with Kurt Vonnegut. He was talking on that very subject on how to survive when all social order breaks down. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: Bee-dubya-ell Date: 27 Mar 07 - 09:55 PM I believe I still have a five-gallon bucket of soybeans and a five-gallon bucket of lentils out in my toolshed. A friend give them to us when she moved away. She had gotten them from her in-laws who had bought them during the Y2K scare. I've tried both. They suck. I'm sure dried beans would be a top choice as survival food (assuming you have fuel for cooking), but buy varieties you actually like. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: Peace Date: 27 Mar 07 - 09:58 PM Read the novel, "Lucifer's Hammer" by Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: Rapparee Date: 27 Mar 07 - 10:02 PM If you don't know how to use firearms well, don't get them. If you do know how to use them, I suggest something like this. A .22 will get you small game and you can store a lot of ammo for a small cash outlay. If you want something bigger, get a 12 gauge shotgun, perhaps a pump like a Remington 870. A 12 gauge slug will know down any large game in North America and the shot shells can be used to take ducks, turkeys, and other birds. But I repeat: do not get firearms if you don't know how to use them and aren't willing to learn IN ADVANCE. And if carrying a gun will make you feel 8 feet tall, covered with hair, and invulnerable, don't get one -- you'll get yourself killed if you do. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: GUEST,worker Date: 27 Mar 07 - 10:07 PM In the event of a complete breakdown of social order, I'd consider one of these. required protection in a Brave New World without order |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: bobad Date: 27 Mar 07 - 10:14 PM Another sugestion is to look into making a root cellar - very handy. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: mack/misophist Date: 27 Mar 07 - 10:28 PM Ask the local Mormons. They're required to keep a years supply on hand and should have some expertise. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: Rapparee Date: 27 Mar 07 - 10:51 PM Assume a complete breakdown of social order. Your rifle is mine, because you won't see me before I kill you and take it. But assume that I don't get it -- do you know how to reload your own ammunition? Do you know how to safely store rifle powder and primers? Do you know how much powder to use? What weight bullet gives the best performance? Most importantly, however -- do you know what to do when you run out of material to reload with, or when you reach the point that the brass cartridge cases are no longer safe or usable? Assume a complete breakdown of the social order, I'd rather have one of these superweapons. Silent, deadly, and simple -- but you do have to learn to use it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: Peace Date: 27 Mar 07 - 11:58 PM Crossbow is easier to learn in a short time, however. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 28 Mar 07 - 12:17 AM With practice, an experienced long bow user can have several arrows in the air before the first one strikes the target at 100 yards. For close ranges, the Traditional English Longbowman also carried a sword.... :-) Actually, I'd recommend training in Escrima, or Kali... any stick can be deadly in trained hands, and with Cacao Canette's techniques, you also understand empty hand techniques at the same time. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: Peace Date: 28 Mar 07 - 12:53 AM The rate of fire of the old English longbowmen--with accuracy--was close to one every five seconds. The machine gun of its time. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: Barry Finn Date: 28 Mar 07 - 02:12 AM Anyway if storing canned goods dip them in wax. A drop of bleach for a one gallon jug of water helps too. Barry |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: Ebbie Date: 28 Mar 07 - 02:51 AM Speaking of bows, a musican friend of mine is a 'good ol' boy' from Arkansas. He is BIG, not only in height but in girth. His wife is about 5' 6" and normal sized. They go to an archery range every week and he says she is better with the bow than he is, even though he has been shooting much longer than she. I'm of two minds - or more - about going into survival mode. I remember Ike Eisenhower wrote in connection with nuclear war that if the time came that everyone around him had died he wouldn't want to live either. Juneau, Alaska, is vulnerable in ways that is not true in less isolated places. If planes weren't flying and no barges or ships were coming up from Seattle we'd run out of groceries, gasoline and other commodities quite quickly. Although we could still have electricity- we have hydropower and it is self-sufficient, not on a grid. Hmmmm. I went to check on the State of Alaska Emergency Preparedness information and I found this: "State of Alaska Threat Level ELEVATED National Threat Level HIGH For commercial aviation operating in or destined for the United States Alaska Cyber Security Alert Level GUARDED Is this directive new? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: JohnInKansas Date: 28 Mar 07 - 03:19 AM If you're planning on sitting out an emergency in your regular living area, the usual recommendation is that you find the storage-stable things that you normally use, and simply stockpile - and rotate - your normal supplies of the more durable items. If there's a possibility of having to move with all of your supplies of course the requirements are immensely more difficult to meet; and many of the things you'd want to have in a mobile emergency cache wouldn't be things you're likely to integrate into your regular diet. Debates about how to "defend" or "supplement" your cache with weaponry need to consider that the knowledge, experience, and likely physical condition of the user play a tremendous role. A longbow is of little use if you can't draw it (as with a sprained wrist or elbow) and even a few years can be the difference between "prime-of-life" and stumbling invalid. (voice of experience?) Don't forget the can opener - even if you're not stocking many canned goods. You may need to forage. Simple first aid and medical kit need to be considered, but if you're past "prime athlete" age note that many prescription drugs have extremely limited shelf life - relative to what you might need. Suitable clothing in good repair should be part of the stock, but - a year or two of reduced circulatory efficiency can change your boot size by two or three increments, so maintaining and updating the store has to be considered. Basic tools such as saws, hammers, knives, jacks, prybars, rope and tarps should be considered. And DON'T FORGET the CHOCOLATE. (for trading purposes even if you don't care for it). John |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: gnomad Date: 28 Mar 07 - 03:24 AM Freeze-drying is a method of dehydration. If you are buying dehydrated goods there is a good chance that some of them, e.g. instant coffee, will have been done this way. I have not heard of anyone freeze-drying at home, though if you want to see the effect in action just leave an unwrapped piece of food [maybe a bread bun] in the freezer and observe how it becomes desiccated. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: Gurney Date: 28 Mar 07 - 04:05 AM I had the thought long ago, when I was in my teens. In the event of a complete social breakdown, I decided that I'd need a social skill that I could sell (Music?) and crafts like building a loom, carpentry, tanning, blacksmithing, woodsmanship, veterinary medicine, dowsing, etc. It depends on where you expect society to regress to. Tribal-Hunter/gatherer, farming/husbandry, pre-industrial or early industrial. Or total savagery. That was just to teach to the next generation. I thought such knowledge would help to keep me alive. The first few years would be the nightmare, with starving and savage gangs from cities trying to get food from the countryside. Farmers would have to murder almost everyone who came up the pike. Tins of pork/spam and beans would keep you alive for months, and the sort of bread that you twist around a stick and bake over a fire. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: Megan L Date: 28 Mar 07 - 04:53 AM Move somewhere safer! But not Orkney we have enough idiots here already :) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 28 Mar 07 - 07:04 AM But isn't Orkney going to be buried under 200 feet of ice? :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: Rapparee Date: 28 Mar 07 - 09:09 AM Use a bow to extend your supply of ammunition. If you want something intermediate, get a flintlock -- not a rifle, but a smoothbore musket like a reproduction Brown Bess. That way it can double as a shotgun, and will fire a slug out to about 100 yards with fair accuracy. If you must, you can make your own gunpowder (See "Foxfire 5"). But if you must hunt for survival, try traps, snares, and deadfalls instead of weapons that fire projectiles. Nothing here is simple! You either learn it beforehand or you can't use it -- it's not on the job training. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: Bee Date: 28 Mar 07 - 09:30 AM Store cases of tinned sardines. They're a highly nutritious whole food, and double as fishbait. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: GUEST,GI Joe Date: 28 Mar 07 - 09:44 AM Try the following sites Emergency.com Ready..gov Fema.gov Survival-center.com very good disasterlinks.net knowledgehound.com Backwoodshome.com this site is great lots of free info they put out a fantastic magazine worth every cent..,by the way the "pull date or use before" doesnt mean anything food that is canned will last for years it may not taste as good but as long as the can is not puntured to allow bacteria to enter it will keep. also water will be your biggest problem. As to ammo stick w/ a calaber the is easily avalable .22 223 7.62 and practice practice practice Get involved w/ your local gun club lots of like minded people there. as to Shot gun stick w. 12 0r 20 ga. the backwoods home site has most of their articles avalable on line |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: Stilly River Sage Date: 28 Mar 07 - 01:31 PM What do you know and where do you live? If I'm nearby I think I'd like to move. . . I have a rotating supply of canned and dry goods in a cupboard that will last for several days. I keep gallons of bottled water, and it's time to start rotating all of that stuff again. I'll pull it out of the cupboard and use what was stored before it is too old to use. And I'll replace it with canned goods, meat, veggies, and fruit, and pasta and beans. I always try to keep a couple of extra bags of flour as well. My house is well-stocked already, but this is an extra buffer (for in case a tornado hits the area, for example, and it takes a little while to be able to get to the store). I have a couple of options for cook stoves, I have a large yard, live near a wooded area with lots of wildlife, my back yard abuts a year round creek with fish. I don't think I'd want to drink it, so I'd have to get a heavy-duty filter of some sort. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: MMario Date: 28 Mar 07 - 01:35 PM twinkies. research has shown they survive just about anything |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: autolycus Date: 28 Mar 07 - 03:13 PM Or you could study to discover all the reasons the social order might break down,work out the ways to deal with the problems that might lead that way,see what several million others have come up with on the same subjects,and do what you can to maintain a humane ,human,viable sort of world. i await the emails resulting from the deliberations,and meanwhile some of the time,that's what I do anyway. "Do whay you can , where you are, with what you've got." Roosevelt senior You might even consider communal as well as individualistic solutions to your problems. That's what Rockefeller,Carnegie,Gates, Ford et. al. did. Only they called them employees. I. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: M.Ted Date: 28 Mar 07 - 03:50 PM SRS is right on the money--keep a buffer supply of the things that you use regularly--with extra emphasis on drinking water(three or more weeks supply, with extra for cooking)-- Even if civilization doesn't end, the power can go out, whether due to a storm or just administrative stupidity--so think about how you're going to cook the food-- It is also worth thinking about how you're heat the place, and how you'll access all that important info you keep on the computer-- Keep in mind that, in times of emergency, gas for that all terrain SUV may be a a little dear. An old fashioned bicycle basket, which you can make one of the numerous bikes we all seem to have in the garage(and a tire pump), a handy thing for running errands and shopping-- Though some of you seem eager to kill your friends and neighbors at the earliest opportunity--generally, when confronted with catastrophe, people work together--civilization, in the final analysis, does not require technology--it merely requires that people recognize the need to cooperate-- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: autolycus Date: 28 Mar 07 - 03:57 PM Hear,hear. I. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: Megan L Date: 28 Mar 07 - 03:59 PM Fools my dear with me around the ice wouldn't dare approach you should know that by now :) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: autolycus Date: 28 Mar 07 - 04:48 PM W-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-hat are y-y-y-y-you saying? I. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: Bert Date: 28 Mar 07 - 05:02 PM Flour, dried yeast, rice, a variety of pulses, dried eggs if you can find them, dried mashed potatoes, lots of spices to make those lentils and soy beans taste good. This season's dried peas, mung beans and other beans for sprouting. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: Bee Date: 28 Mar 07 - 05:46 PM Social order needn't break down for people to need emergency stores. Power out after a hurricane or ice storm for two or more weeks, stores closed, some roads closed, drinking water hard to find, are scenarios that happen all too often. After H. Juan taught me a lesson, I keep several weeks stores cycling through my cupboards, plus extra drinking water, propane, camp fuel, charcoal, lamp oil(kerosene), batteries, one of those 'shake' flashlights, and I keep an eye on the status of the first aid kit. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: Rapparee Date: 28 Mar 07 - 06:02 PM We have "72 hour" kit for the house, and we can load it into the car in a flash. We're in a seismically active area, have a MAJOR nuclear lab to the northwest, and are subject to blizzards on occasion. Frankly, I doubt that the social order would collapse all at once. Over a period of some years, perhaps, but it won't be a sudden thing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: Grab Date: 28 Mar 07 - 06:10 PM Hang on. You say you're protecting against "disruption of food delivery", but then you're talking about 2 years' worth of stocks? Those two statements can't both be correct, unless by "disruption of food delivery" you're talking about a complete breakdown of all national forms of transport for that long. But the only thing which could cause that would be an attack from some WMD - nuclear, chemical or biological - such that the country's transport infrastructure was irreparably damaged and all senior people (political and military) who could do something about it were dead. It's certainly possible to plan for a post-apocalyptic scenario. But that opens the question of how likely you consider the apocalypse to be. Most apocalypse predictors are clinically paranoid. You might not be, but the odds are on the other side... :-/ Graham. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: bubblyrat Date: 28 Mar 07 - 06:28 PM It"s OK for you people in the USA, as you can pick up a rifle or a shotgun , as a human right, from almost anywhere, but we are completely oppressed in Britain, and nobody, and I mean NOBODY,gets to own a shotgun, or ( even less likely ) a rifle, as it is illegal here to defend yourself against an attack by an aggressor ( In case you hurt or injure them ,thus infringing their "human rights " ).Crossbows and longbows are out of the question also, for the same reason---in fact, they are also banned, as are Bowie-knives and even baseball bats !!! YES folks, you can be arrested and jailed in Britain for having a BASEBALL-BAT in your car, in case of attack by muggers or hijackers, as it would be a serious crime to hurt them in ANY way !! Can you believe that ?? It"s TRUE !! In fact, if my girlfriend is caught with a pair of scissors , a pointed comb, or,God forbid, a pocket knife ,in her handbag, she goes on trial for being in possession of an Offensive Weapon !! Really !! So the only thing we can hope to do is to attach a kitchen knife to a broomstick with sticky-tape or string, and hope that our attacker has a heart-attack , or trips over his shoe-laces, as he rushes at us !! So there is no point in getting in "emergency supplies" in Great Britain, because we would not be allowed, by law, to prevent anyone else from stealing them from us !! If we WERE foolish enough to hurt someone who attacked us,or our loved ones, then we would immediately be arrested or shot by any Police or Army personnel who were still in control . THAT"S what it"s like to live in modern Britain, under Tony Blair and his crooks !! Shit, isn"t it ?? Why on earth do we put up with it ?? Enjoy your freedom, America------We who have none, salute you !! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: M.Ted Date: 28 Mar 07 - 06:43 PM Fresh from the Hash Browns thread, it occurs to me that, if you are going to grow something, it should be potatoes. They are highly nutritious, an acre of potatoes yields enough to feed 10 people, and even a marginal farmer can grow them. They keep well, too, and, if push comes to shove, you can use them for ammunition in a Spud Gun. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 28 Mar 07 - 07:47 PM "twinkies. research has shown they survive just about anything " ... including attempted digestion... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: GUEST,thebanjoest Date: 29 Mar 07 - 02:47 AM When the shit hits the fan it will help you to have resigned yourselves to be ready to eat anything from roaches to your fellow man. That's survival food my friends, all the other suggestions are just a way to temporarily to set back the inevitable. Things like beans, lentals, and many of the other suggestions are bad news. You need fire, with fuel and lots of time and water to cook them. Than just won't do with people like me ready to take your food away when you've cooked it and then me being ready to kill you and eat you. Other than that.... Peanut Butter is good. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: Grab Date: 29 Mar 07 - 09:05 AM nobody, and I mean NOBODY,gets to own a shotgun Must have been hallucinating when I saw those people clay-pigeon shooting, then. Or farmers out after rabbits. as it is illegal here to defend yourself against an attack by an aggressor Since when? A couple of years ago I was on a jury for a guy who provoked a fight (but didn't throw the first punch). He was getting the worst of it until the other guy fell over and buggered his leg, and the guy on trial kicked him in the face once while he was down, not knowing that he couldn't get back up, and consequently was had up for assault and ABH. We had absolutely crystal-clear instruction from the judge that if we believed this guy thought he was still in danger, what he did was entirely justified and we had to vote not guilty. Conversely, if this guy knew the other guy was down and staying down and was putting the boot in out of malice, we had to find him guilty. The jury was split pretty much evenly so we had to return no verdict, and it never came up again in the papers so I guess the CPS dropped it. I'm afraid I'm legally not allowed to say which way I voted. But I can say that when I was doing karate, my instructors were quite categorical that you don't just slap someone and hope they stay out of your way afterwards... In fact, if my girlfriend is caught with a pair of scissors , a pointed comb, or,God forbid, a pocket knife ,in her handbag, she goes on trial for being in possession of an Offensive Weapon That's fiction not fact. Graham. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: bubblyrat Date: 29 Mar 07 - 09:39 AM Well, Graham, that"s OK then !! One knife, one comb ( steel, pointed ) and one pair of very long scissors going in Annie"s handbag today !! Yes, I know about legally-held shotguns, ---I held a shotgun certificate for many years ,but gave up in the end, as the Police started to make it so much hassle----MUST have somewhere to shoot( even thoughh this wasn"t "law" ) ---MUST have a certain type of gun safe to keep them in----MUST have a valid reason for wanting to hold so many cartridges ( again, not legally valid, but how many Chief Constables give a toss about the "law" ??) --MUST register each individual shotgun !! MUST keep guns and ammunition in different safes ( Again, not enforcable, but you get the picture----the police, and the State ,do not want ordinary British citizens,who might pop out to get the odd rabbit or pigeon, to own ANY sort of guns, if they can help it !! ) So I was trying to tell our American friends how VERY VERY different state oppression is over here to over there. What I SHOULD have said was that,in Britain" Nobody, but nobody, gets to own a handgun " Is that alright with you, sir ?? Finally, old chap, ----If you haven"t read , in the last few years, about the huge numbers of people who have been prosecuted, and in some cases jailed, for hitting,injuring ,and in some cases killing , intruders in their own homes,when in a state of panic ,fear, or dread ,as I imagine you would be, & who through age or infirmity have not been able to overpower their assailants using martial arts,or hypnotism, then you can"t have been reading the newspapers much !! Just you wait until YOU bash a burglar ,and see what happens !!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: M.Ted Date: 29 Mar 07 - 11:35 AM Banjoest--without the legal system to assure you a fair hearing, your "neighbors" will make quick work of you, and probably will put your head on a stick at the end of the street as a warning to others of similar mindset-- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: Peace Date: 29 Mar 07 - 11:41 AM "anything from roaches to your fellow man. That's survival food" I disagree with that. Humans carry diseases that transmit easily to other humans. Canibalism is a poor choice to make. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: GUEST,Eater Date: 29 Mar 07 - 01:25 PM Banjoest is right. In times of hardship we'll eat what we have to. It occurred to me that I could buy a case of barbecue sauce and just wait for the marauders. I used to hunt deer with a 30.06 and will probably downsize to a .243, so if it comes to it there probably will be a plentiful supply of food for a while. I like the lentil and beans idea too. They could be put on the fire to draw the "meat" in for the kill. But seriously, I've learned about freeze dried vs dehydrated food over the past few days and am making plans to purchase the 30-year shelf life 'last option' foods. Hopefully we'll never need them, but it will be good to know they're there. I have hand grinders that I used for an unrelated project years ago, and now I need to study grains and beans. They seem to be the best investment for the cost/nutrition ratio. Those plus oil can keep you going. Lots of water is needed to rehydrate and to cook, so I need to drill a well on my property. It's about 3 dozen acres 100-200 feet above a very fine minor aquifer. A daytime solar pump or a hand pump should suffice for drawing up the water. The land is covered with brush, so fuel for fires will never be a problem. The neighbor runs his cattle on the place, so we need to fence off a good garden area and then start a mulch/fertilizer collection system. Seed kits and tools, and How to books adapted to the local area. There's a small, unincorporated town about 1 mile away (down paved roads), so a 3-wheel bike with a basket to get to the feed store. I'm going to check on wheat prices today and pick up a bag of feed wheat so we can do some experiments. Apparently you can grind and cook it, or you can sprout it, and it's cheap. Thanks for all the advice. PS -- I sympathize with you, bubblyrat. I can't imagine living in a society that doesn't allow you to protect your loved ones. Good luck. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: Peace Date: 29 Mar 07 - 01:43 PM Some wheat is NOT edible. Seed wheats are ovten coated with a poison to keep rats/mice from destroying the supply. Be sure to tell the person from whom you purchase that you intend to eat it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: Megan L Date: 29 Mar 07 - 02:29 PM You are quite right Peace he should not eat people after all if he does he is never going to be able to build up enough slaves to break the soil and pick the cotton. You are growing cotton aren't you i mean whats your wife supposed to wear after youve shot all the availlable game. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: Captain Ginger Date: 29 Mar 07 - 02:52 PM I've eaten tinned stewed beef from cows that were butchered and canned before I was even born and still none the worse for that. A dollop of curry powder and some dried garlic and it was fit for a king. God bless the British Army's attitude to food! If cans are kept dry and are made from stainless steel rather than cheap iron, and the contents aren't too acidid, there's no reason why they shouldn't be an alost everlasting food. If you're keeping dried food - grains and pulses - it's worth vac-packing them, if you've access to the kit, to keep vermin at bay and to prevent oxidation. Salted meat lasts a fair while, too, if kept in dry conditions - I've had five-year-old salt cod which was pretty tasty. Damp is the main enemy of food preservations. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: John MacKenzie Date: 29 Mar 07 - 02:54 PM But Megan, if God hadn't meant us to eat people, he wouldn't have made them of meat! Giok |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: Megan L Date: 29 Mar 07 - 03:01 PM true Giok but i've heard they tase o chicken and ye get sick o that after twa meals. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: John MacKenzie Date: 29 Mar 07 - 03:02 PM I have curry powder! G. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: Megan L Date: 29 Mar 07 - 03:07 PM AW naw lad in a survival situation the last thing ye need is Napoleons revenge |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: Peace Date: 29 Mar 07 - 04:57 PM Keep lots of cats around. They will mostly fend for themselves and serve as a walking larder if times get tough. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: Penny S. Date: 29 Mar 07 - 05:56 PM PS -- I sympathize with you, bubblyrat. I can't imagine living in a society that doesn't allow you to protect your loved ones. Good luck. I've lived in this oppressed society, alone, for forty odd years, after living with my family before that, and guess what, I've never met anything I needed to be protected from with guns. A friend having a spat with some teenagers who didn't know how to cope with a surge of testosterone. Only weapon involved a metal tipped cricket stump. Which I was able to remove, as it wasn't actually being held as a weapon. Verbal bullying from a poorly socialised neighbour. A brother in law having a dog set on him, and a bite around his waist. I don't think guns would have made things better, and could well have made things much worse. There's nothing to be sorry about for people living in a society with very few guns. Except for those where they aren't as few as they should be. Getting back to the food. I don't think pulses are so good, even if you have your own water supply, and a supply of fuel, because they have a finite shelf life, after which they become very difficult to reconstitute. My own emergency supplies tend to the tinned or sachets with liquid in, and are only intended to last through the flu. I had a fleeting moment of paranoia at the time of Bernard Matthew's outbreak, and built up a bit so it wasn't just for me being off work sick, but the supermarket delivery system being off sick as well. Penny |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: Penny S. Date: 29 Mar 07 - 05:59 PM Peace, the cats can be encouraged to bring in rabbits and such instead of the usual voles. My Nana's cat did that for her. Penny |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: Peace Date: 29 Mar 07 - 06:06 PM Rabbits are good. However, they are subject to There are two common ways that humans can contract tularemia: From the bite of an infected tick, deerfly (Chrysops discalis), or mosquito. When transmitted to humans by insects, exposed body surfaces are bitten, and the on set of pain and fever is sudden. When broken skin (cuts, abrasions) comes into direct contact with an infected rabbit carcass (namely rabbit species of the genus Sylvilagus which are the cottontails). Many other wild creatures carry it, too. One more thing: Rabbit flesh is very very very low in fat. That should be added when the rabbit is cooked. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: bobad Date: 29 Mar 07 - 07:23 PM A good source book on foraging Stalking The Wild Asparagus |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: GUEST Date: 29 Mar 07 - 07:24 PM Peace: Well cooked human meat is just fine to eat. You may not like the idea but it has happened before and it will happen again. In a world where you can't find food YOU will eat your neighbors. And M.Ted: My neighbors placing my head on a pike, don't count on it...I'm stronger then they are. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: bobad Date: 29 Mar 07 - 07:30 PM I recall hearing a long time ago that cannibals consider the palms of the hand and soles of the feet as being choice so if you ever find yourself at the Cannibal Cafe you know what to order. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: Peace Date: 29 Mar 07 - 07:39 PM "Well cooked human meat is just fine to eat." I don't want to know why you are so sure of this. Uh, you read lots of stuff by Thomas Harris? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: JohnInKansas Date: 30 Mar 07 - 12:40 AM bobad Stalking The Wild Asparagus (Paperback) by Euell Gibbons (Author) But didn't Euell Gibbons die a few years back - of food poisoning? (possibly an urban rumor, but that report went around pretty widely at the time.) A warning not widely known, from US Military handbooks: Eating wild things like nuts and berries on the assumption that "birds eat them so they must be okay" can be fatal. Most birds can metabolize strychnine, which is a common "ingredient" in a number of plants and plant products. You cannot. Even some common human food products can cause problems if ingested without customary processing, of which you might not be aware if you haven't studdied the usual methods of preparation. Rhubarb comes to mind (if local lore is believed) and the common tropical taro - used both for food and in more primitive times for a hunting poison - might be worth looking up. Although you're unlikely to find taro in your back lot, knowing the kinds of hazards it typifies might be helpful. Euell Gibbons, in particular, often "glossed over" some things that caused concern for more conventional dietitians. John |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: Peace Date: 30 Mar 07 - 12:50 AM He died of heart attack in 1975 so far as I can find out. "Fun Ways to Eat and Cook Rhubarb You can eat our bright red stalks but not our green leaves which contain an acid that should not be eaten. Simply cut off our leaves and any white root area, then cut stalk crosswise into 25-50mm lengths. There is no need to peel." I like to eat the stalks raw but dipped in sugar bite by bite. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 30 Mar 07 - 05:17 AM Ah Peace - oxalic acid - now I understand.... :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: Megan L Date: 30 Mar 07 - 05:58 AM Ah Peace see I kent there wis something respectable about you:p We used tae hae big rhubarb fields ower the back o oor hoose and a high treat wis some young stalks and a pokie hat o sugar. You know instead of wondering how we can brow beat bully control and kill those around us after Armageddon perhaps if we actually started treating people the way we would like them to treat us we might not have to reach that stage. But then again I was brought up to see good in folk and try tae help them see it too. Ah weel I'll jist stay here in ma wee cave wie ma hamster powered telly. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: bobad Date: 30 Mar 07 - 06:49 AM J in K I found this in Wikipedia for what it's worth: "Euell died due to Marphans(sic) Syndrome, with the result of an elongated aorta that burst." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: Bee Date: 30 Mar 07 - 08:11 AM No doubt in the extreme social conditions proposed by some there would be marauders to contend with, but I think for the most part people would tend to band together - we are social animals, for the most part, and survive better as cooperating and trading groups than as wandering singletons, who, however fearsome their personal armory, must sleep sometime. It certainly doesn't hurt to know your wild foods (and their nutritional value) - there is no time of year I couldn't find vegetation to eat in the woods and fields, couldn't find some creature to fish for, or small animals to snare or trap, or even fat grubs. Consider that bears survive on mostly berries and insects, with the occasional meat meal (although they do hibernate during the time of scarcest food). A fine wild food example is the cattail: the root is starchy and edible, the young shoots are edible; when green, the seedhead is edible (boiled, tastes a bit like corn); when covered in pollen the pollen can be gathered and added to flour mixes. And when it has gone to fluff, it can be used as insulating material in quilts or clothing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: GUEST,Minerva Date: 30 Mar 07 - 09:24 AM Couple years ago I read a book about a serial killer who went on the lam and lived rough in the outdoors with no car for a number of months. The day before he suspected he was going to be arrested he went shopping, and I found his shopping list intriguing: 20 lbs. oatmeal, 10 lb. raisins, 10 lb. mixed nuts, couple cans peanut butter. This was in the southeastern US where surface water is plentiful. He would occasionally burglarize a house for additional groceries. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: M.Ted Date: 30 Mar 07 - 09:31 AM What Bee says is true--people tend to band together--and the people who survive are the ones who are good at getting along with others--whatever the conditions. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: Mickey191 Date: 30 Mar 07 - 12:37 PM In my ignorance I thought that the unopened gallons of purchased water would last indefintely. So I should replace the contents (every 6 mo.s) with my well water? Yea or Nay? For the first time, that I've seen, our weather channel had a segment on this very subject yesterday. Clorax was a must, toilet tissue & germicidal soap, one gal. of water for each person for each expected day of doom. Sounds like one must devote a _room_ for all the larder. I've become hooked on "Jericho" - continuing CBS series on the aftermath of nuclear war. It is well done & thought provoking, depicting the change in humanity when things get rough. My Question: Does somebody KNOW something? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: Peace Date: 30 Mar 07 - 12:41 PM Read "Lucifer's Hammer". It's a neat story, but there are also really good ideas for after cattaclsmick/cataklismec/cataclismick/bad-shit-happens. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: Bee Date: 30 Mar 07 - 03:21 PM Peace, I read Lucifer's Hammer a long time ago, so fuzzy on the details. The thing about that interesting sci-fi novel and the show Jericho is that they are, after all, fiction. People are always managing to find or have delivered the exact thing they need to suvive - Jericho is bad for that. In real life you would start running into such simple horrors as tooth abcesses, infected cuts, earaches, parasites in water supplies, insects in your food stores, shortages of fuel to cook or boil water (trust me, around here you couldn't rely on a solar cooker). You'd also have worry about the diseases your youngest children aren't vaccinated for - an untreated fever can seriously damage or kill a child. And the list goes on... My recommendation would be to store lots of books that can help you make or deal with anything you might need or come across. We've forgotten a lot of the simple remedies our grandparents took for granted - like the fact hot salted water can ease a lot of infections, including in the mouth. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: M.Ted Date: 30 Mar 07 - 03:36 PM If you want to learn how to survive after a cataclysm, forget about the fictional narratives--there are plenty of Iraqis on-line, sharing their day to day details--lots of Tsunami survivors around too, and Katrina survivors--just ask Poppagator-- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: Mickey191 Date: 30 Mar 07 - 03:42 PM Bee, Of course you are correct-but let's face it-which makes for better drama-a tooth abcess or windmill trading for 6 captive hunks? Peace, I've order the book & it's in transit. I sure hope it gets here in time. Toothpaste! Forgot that totally. Prunes too-good for the heart. But what do we do for the heartbreak? I just heard that in some town in Ca. the price of reg. gas is over $4.00 a gallon. Immediate thought: they're getting us ready to accept invasion of Iran. We simply must GET THEIR OIL! We may be invading our larder sooner then we thought. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: Wesley S Date: 30 Mar 07 - 04:35 PM My favorite book on the subject was Alas Babylon by Pat Frank. Post nuclear war survival in central Florida. Within days folks were trying to trade fully loaded cars for iron pots. Coffee, sugar,salt, honey and booze turned into important trade goods. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: gnu Date: 30 Mar 07 - 04:44 PM Oh my! I should have opened this thread when I first saw it. Sounds interesting and I SHALL read it when I get a chance. I thought it would be about foods you could eat in the wilds to survive if you got lost... I have never been lost... only momentarily displaced. Now, if we were talking wild woods survival food, apart from the usual nuts and berries and such, bring corn in your survival pack. It is clearly the best. It does give you sugar energy and you can leave a trail for the search team. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: Bee Date: 30 Mar 07 - 04:53 PM "Within days folks were trying to trade fully loaded cars for iron pots." - Wesley Wouldn't it make more sense to beat part of the car into a pot-shape? ;-D |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: GUEST,Eater Date: 30 Mar 07 - 07:32 PM I have read this with interest and I have found some information on other sites. One place suggested getting Bic lighters, needle and thread and the things we take for granted. Store them and they will be there when needed. Seed wheat is toxic but feed wheat is edible. I'm going to pick up some and we'll experiment. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: Donuel Date: 30 Mar 07 - 07:40 PM About 1,000 lbs of canned soup will last a family of four for about 3 months. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 30 Mar 07 - 08:32 PM "you can leave a trail for the search team. " Hansel and Gretel found that didn't work - the birds ate it! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 30 Mar 07 - 08:37 PM "you can leave a trail for the search team. " Hansel and Gretel found that didn't work - the birds ate it! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: autolycus Date: 31 Mar 07 - 06:48 AM No takers,then,for examining why a social order might collapse might occur and exploring ways to alternatives futures? BTW,Peanut butter not good;p.b.full of bad cholesteral. I. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: bobad Date: 31 Mar 07 - 07:15 AM "BTW,Peanut butter not good;p.b.full of bad cholesteral." Choose peanut butter that is made only with peanuts and no additives. The fatty acid composition of 11 brands of peanut butter and paste freshly prepared from roasted peanuts was analyzed with emphasis on isomeric trans-fatty acids. No trans-fatty acids were detected in any of the samples in an analytical system with a detection threshold of 0.01% of the sample weight. Hydrogenated vegetable oils are added to peanut butters at levels of 1-2% to prevent oil separation. Some hydrogenated vegetable oils are known to be sources of trans-fatty acids in the human diet. The addition of these products was not found to result in measurable amounts of trans-fatty acids in the peanut butters analyzed. J. Agric. Food Chem., 49 (5), 2349 -2351, 2001. 10.1021/jf001455a S0021-8561(00)01455-2 |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: GUEST,ib48 Date: 31 Mar 07 - 07:43 AM cant beat a 12oz sirloin steak and chips,you will definately survive a day on that |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: autolycus Date: 31 Mar 07 - 08:42 AM Thanks bobad. must remember to put my vegetararian joke on the joke thread. I. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: GUEST,Eater Date: 23 Apr 07 - 09:26 PM I've looked into wheat. Feed wheat (not pesticide-treated seed wheat), but feed wheat at a feed store. Bought 50 pounds for $8.25. Now I'll test it. Found the link below concerning basic recipes. How to boil it, fry it, sprout it, etc.: http://waltonfeed.com/self/wheat.html This wheat can be sealed in large buckets and stored. One article recommended using diatameceous earth and bay leaves before sealing. Natural insecticides. The DE also acts as an absorbent. http://www.zetatalk.com/food/tfoox041.htm So, my plan is to start cooking this stuff and incorporating it into our eating (one article says it's a big adjustment for the digestive system, so start using it gradually), and if it's a good food source, I'll research how long it can be stored, etc. and buy the buckets and store as much as will keep. The SEED wheat is only available once a year around here, but FEED wheat is available year round. SEED is treated with pesticides. Feed wheat can be planted, too. One man at a feed store said about 70-80% of it would sprout. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: GUEST,GI Joe Date: 24 Apr 07 - 01:55 PM some ware I read put aside a case of 1/2 pints of whiskey. if things get rough people will trade any thing for a bottle of whiskey,gin/rum/ whatever.. of course you could always drink it yourself... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: grumpy al Date: 24 Apr 07 - 02:55 PM try making pemmican, it tastes good and keeps for years,safely, recipes available on the internet. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: Wesley S Date: 24 Apr 07 - 03:09 PM Al - Maybe pemmican lasts for years because no one wants to eat it. The few times I've tasted it the stuff was awful. Maybe I'm wrong. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: GUEST,Partridge Date: 24 Apr 07 - 03:37 PM Chick peas are nice and last a long time Pat x |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: Alice Date: 24 Apr 07 - 06:46 PM This reminds me of the end of the world predictions of Elizabeth Clare Prophet. Her followers built fallout shelters, armed themselves, bought "survival" food from her and prepared for doomsday. One woman even shot her dog because she was not allowed to take a pet into the "shelter". After the world did not end, and people who had maxed out their credit cards and sold everything found that the world went on, some of her followers left the cult. One ex-member told me she still had lots of wheat left and was trying to sell her survival food. She found that the wheat had grit and small rocks in it, so it wasn't even good as feed for animals. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: GUEST,blindlemonsteve Date: 25 Apr 07 - 07:55 AM See the bovril thread, ive had a jar of it for years, it still tastes good, and the jar is bullet proof. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: Sooz Date: 25 Apr 07 - 11:44 AM Chip butties - 100 of them! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: grumpy al Date: 25 Apr 07 - 02:25 PM Wesley, you didn't like pemmican? you must have very strange tastebuds, or could that be me? I wonder. Grumpy |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: GUEST,pattyClink Date: 26 Apr 07 - 12:17 PM Eater, good luck with the wheat experiments, sounds rough to me. The whole thing sounds a little paranoid, but you gotta do what you gotta do. I would look into corn as well. Here in the south a lot of people still rely on home subsistence gardens which feature: corn to be ground for wholegrain cornbread, blackeyed peas, butterbeans, various greens, and the summer vegetables (tomatoes, okra, peppers, etc.) The corn/bean combination gives a fairly complete protein set you can survive on. And of course, this corn/bean combo was the root of the Native American diet, with squash as another foundation. For good reasons-- these things are fairly reliable to grow and simple to process. You can eat some of the corn fresh, let the rest dry in the field and then haul it to a mill to be ground (there are only a handful of millers left, but I think they will still mill for no cash, just leave part of your corn). Or, mill it yourself in a small grinder as you need it. As for the cornbread, you might have to lay in some dried eggs or egg whites, otherwise all you need is salt, baking powder, and water. It's better with milk, but not necessary. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: GUEST,granny Date: 28 Apr 07 - 11:53 PM guest eater freeze dried stays in freezer, dehydrated is left out to dry and will keep along time. Can food lasts for years if stored right. water will also keep for along time. But you can boil if necessary.People had better start stocking up because times are going to get hard. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: bobad Date: 29 Apr 07 - 12:01 AM Properties of Freeze-dried Products If a freeze-dried substance is sealed to prevent the reabsorption of moisture, the substance may be stored at room temperature without refrigeration, and be protected against spoilage for many years. Preservation is possible because the greatly reduced water content that inhibits the action of microorganisms and enzymes that would normally spoil or degrade the substance. Freeze drying also causes less damage to the substance than other dehydration methods using higher temperatures. Freeze drying does not usually cause shrinkage or toughening of the material being dried. In addition, flavours and smells generally remain unchanged making the process popular for preserving food. Unfortunately, water is not the only chemical capable of sublimation and the loss of other volatile compounds such as acetic acid (vinegar) and alcohols can yield undesirable results. Freeze-dried products can be rehydrated (reconstituted) much more quickly and easily because it leaves microscopic pores. The pores are created by the ice crystals that sublimate, leaving gaps or pores in its place. This is especially important when it comes to pharmaceutical uses. Lyophilization can also be used to increase the shelf life of some pharmaceuticals for many years. From Wikipedia |
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Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions? From: robomatic Date: 29 Apr 07 - 03:49 PM I dream of a world without weapons, a world at peace. And I dream of taking over that world, because they wouldn't be prepared! |
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Subject: RE: BS: What Survival foods? From: GUEST,Eater Date: 08 Jun 07 - 09:19 PM I was doing some work in a remote area today and saw thousands of pounds of grasshoppers. They were everywhere. It's been a wet year, so the grasshoppers are thick. Free protein, I guess, but I mean...grasshoppers. Anyone have any experience or recipes for these delicacies? |
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Subject: RE: BS: What Survival foods? From: bobad Date: 08 Jun 07 - 09:44 PM Pan-Roasted Grasshoppers |
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Subject: RE: BS: What Survival foods? From: GUEST,Gimlet the Delicatessan Date: 09 Jun 07 - 09:40 AM Dwarf Bread |
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Subject: RE: BS: What Survival foods? From: GUEST,CrazyEddie Date: 11 Jun 07 - 05:06 AM Gimlet, can I have some rat (and Ketchup) with that Dwarf Bread, please? |
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Subject: RE: BS: What Survival foods? From: JohnInKansas Date: 11 Jun 07 - 07:13 AM Given the difficulty of stockpiling enough food for a really extended time of scarcity, the obvious plan must be set out in advance, and the critical need is to have the tools and organization within a core group of survivors. Step 1: Commandeer and fortify the nearest grain elevator. Although no single grain provides a balanced diet, the surplus will be useful for barter with those who have other supplies. Step 2: Recruit or kidnap the editorial staff at MEN. Based on experience with publishing, the editors probably know nothing very useful except the names and locations of the writers who actually may have useful skills and knowledge. Recruiting the best of these skilled people will be critical. The editors may be willing to assist in recruitment, and their contacts should be used and cooperation should be rewarded. The younger editors can be bartered as slaves once you've obtained what you need from them (if you decide not to keep them). Step 3: Know the location, and if possible the identity of the operator(s), of the nearest illicit still. The ability to produce a continuous and reliable supply (for barter as well as for self-medication) may be extremely important to your survival. Step 4: Recruit (or capture1 if necessary) a Native shaman experienced in sweat lodge rituals. These have medicinal value, but inexperienced people can easily kill themselves attempting to apply them. 1 Use extreme caution in the use of force. These guys/gals can get pretty testy. Step 5: Recruit or commandeer the most primitive blacksmith/foundry facility and personnel accessible to your area. You're going to wear out your original set of tools in short order, and will need repairs and/or replacements. Be sure to have a ready supply of welding equipment and gases (arc welders will be difficult to use without power). You'll soon run out of gas, but should be able to convert to more primitive forge operations, using local fuels, quickly enough to work through it. Step 6: Recruit as many Step 7: Recruit at least a few wise old men. Engineers of course should be favored for their special knowledge; but avoid those with PhDs (you can't live on equations) or with "management" credentials (you can starve in endless meetings). The useful ones can probably be recruited quite willingly through minor attention from a few agreeable younger2 ladies. This step is so important the recruiting should be started immediately. 2 [Hint] They're all younger than me. Step 8: Obtain and study one or more respected Animal Husbandry and/or Veterinary texts published before 1890. Old medical books, even of this era, rely strongly on purchased "back east" medicines, but the vet books are rich in home remedies that actually (according to some reports) worked once in a while. Step 9: Make some serious plans and get organized. This should be enough for a start. John |
