Why are folkies scruffy

Subject: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,Guest peas & chips
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 02:55 PM

I want to know why folkies are scruffy. Those tatty, washed out, far too big, 'colourful' clothes do no favours for anyone. Non folkies just think we look ridiculous and I also think a large proportion of folkies look ridiculous as well! Yes, I can here you say 'clothes are not important it the person that counts' and I agree to a point. but do we really have too look like we a living on the streets.....

After all most folkies are well off professional people! I simply don't understand why they have too look like they are on the dole.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Peace
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 02:57 PM

Why do assholes start threads like this?

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: PoppaGator
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 03:00 PM

Now, now, Bruce ~ calm down!

When I see something like this, I assume the person is addressing an issue that exists in the UK. We North Americans are not in a position to judge whether the person is full of it or not.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Big Phil
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 03:01 PM

guestpeas&chips
It is what is in the clothes that matters, not the clothes.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Peace
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 03:02 PM

Oh. OK. I didn't know he was British. My apologies, Guest piss & chips. If I'd been aware I would have called you an arsehole.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Wesley S
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 03:07 PM

Let's face it Peace. Folks here in America do a lot of things better than the folks in England. Building guitars for instence. I'll assume that dressing nicely is one of them also.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: John J
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 03:10 PM

A valid point Peas & Chips.

JJ

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Surreysinger
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 03:13 PM

"Folks here in America do a lot of things better than the folks in England. Building guitars for instence."

Hmmm... fighting talk, methinks... I can see a range war developing here. Obviously one thing folks in America don't always do better is spell (or maybe type)??? Runs off to hide.....

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Peace
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 03:17 PM

You don't want range wars don't start 'em. That was the intent of this thread, wazzint it?

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: gnu
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 03:23 PM

On the dole? There's a big difference from being on the dole and shelling out $30 for a tie.... $30 for a noose... and $300, at least, for a monkey suit? Folkies, and just plain folks, have better things to spend money on than fancy clothes.

Mimimum $40 for a dress shirt.... $4 for a cotton t-shirt. I knows who I wants in my band of merry minstrels.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: PoppaGator
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 03:23 PM

I suppose that on both sides of the pond, "folkies" are less likely than the general population to wear starched collars and ties, to shave their entire faces more than once a day, etc. In other words, a severely anal-retentive personality seems somehow to be incompatible with an interest in this particular hazily-defined art form.

Is it legimate to try discussing why this might be the case?

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: growler
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 03:24 PM

Because I am

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: jacqui.c
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 03:25 PM

Generalisations are not always accurate. I really don't think that folkies are, generally, more scruffy than the rest of the population. In my travels I've met some very glamorous folkies and quite a number who could be considered flamboyant in their dress. I've also seen a lot of 'scruffy' non-folkies, in pubs, on the streets, all over the place. I am English and now live in the USA so can speak with experience of both sides of the Pond.

I suppose that the 'ridiculous' label could be aimed at any proportion of the public that 'WE' don't belong to, from goths right up to Eton schoolboys. It all depends on your own point of view. I think that it also shows one up as being a bit of a snob in reality and yes, what matters is the person, not the clothes.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Peace
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 03:30 PM

ONE

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,Mr Tidytackle
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 03:31 PM

I'm a naturist folkie




and I shave everything

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Peace
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 03:32 PM

Thanks for sharing.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: kendall
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 03:33 PM

Bad spelling can be found on both sides of the pond. Check the first post.

This reminds me of a line from the film, Father Goose. The professor was fired from university for refusing to wear a tie. His comment was,
"I think what is in a man's heart is more important than what's around his neck".

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,Guest peas & chips
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 03:40 PM

'Yes, I can here you say 'clothes are not important it's the person that counts' and I agree to a point'

and I really do agree but why do they revel in looking as though they belong in a charity shop. And why do the women in particular have to look like they have not had a shave and a bath in the last year!

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Wesley S
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 03:42 PM

Guest peas & chips - so how are trolls dressing these days?

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,Guest chips & peas
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 03:43 PM

a bit like folkies

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,KateG , with an eaten cookie
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 03:43 PM

You object to women with beards?

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,Guest chips & peas
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 03:45 PM

yes and hairy legs and armpits!

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: jacqui.c
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 03:51 PM

How sad!

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Singing Referee
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 03:52 PM

"Folks here in America do a lot of things better than the folks in England. Building guitars for instence."

Not spelling though!

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Deckman
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 03:54 PM

In my case it's because I spent all my serious money on vintage Martins! Bob

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Tootler
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 03:56 PM

I want to know why folkies are scruffy. Those tatty, washed out, far too big, 'colourful' clothes do no favours for anyone.

A somewhat sweeping generalisation. and like all generalisations, it has a grain of truth and is plain wrong at the same time.

From what I see folkies seem to display the same range of dress from mega tidy to downright scruffy as the rest of the population with a skewing towards informal dress. Dressing informally is not the same as being scruffy and it is possible that some who have day jobs that more or less oblige them to dress in suits and ties (or the female equivalent) are more than happy to put something less formal on when the opportunity presents itself.

Certainly being retired it is a pleasure not to have to wear a jacket and tie, and I don't unless I have to, but that does not necessarily mean I am scruffy.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 03:57 PM

Now people have accused my Geoff of many things - being scruffy isn't one of them. Colourful yes! One thought is that folies dress to suit the environment they're in. If I'm camping in a field and sitting in a pub all day I am not going to wear a tailored suit - like wise if I attend an interview I don't turn up in my tiedye long frock! Are we confusing casual with scruffy?? Judging by the queues for showers they are not dirty either.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Peace
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 04:01 PM

"and I really do agree but why do they revel in looking as though they belong in a charity shop. And why do the women in particular have to look like they have not had a shave and a bath in the last year! "

I revise my earlier poinion. Forget asshole and arsehole: dipshit idiot comes to mind. Fuck off.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Rasener
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 04:05 PM

When you haven't gotmuch money,you look after the children first and you take whats left.

Its also more comfortable not to wear collar and tie, Did that for too many years and now I don't have a job, I don't have to conform to what society tells me I have to do.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Wesley S
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 04:08 PM

Guest – Have you considered for INSTANCE going up to one of the "scruffy ones" and telling them face to face that they need to spruce up a little bit? I'm sure they would take it well. They might even start offering you some image consulting fees. Or you could stage the first Mudcat fashion show. That ought to go over really well.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Peace
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 04:17 PM

He can't post under his own name. You think he's got the stones to face anyone? Fuckin' thread's a waste. I'm out.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: gnu
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 04:18 PM

Hehehehe. Well, the old saying is actually correct... Clothes DO make the man (person).

I went to another city a while back to a headhunter firm for "management testing" (read psychological head game tests) for a job I applied for. I wore a nice grey sweater over a red golf shirt and (new) black pants, and, of course, big hulkin work boots. Hey... it was a three hour drive. But, I looked good, I THOUGHT!!

I guess not, though. When I arrived at the hotel here in town for the formal interview with the big brass (apparentley, they didn't find anything in the psych tests), the 2IC from the headhunter's office did not recognize me in a brand new suit, shirt and tie, picked out for me by the "nicest" chap at the store I bought it at three days before the interview.

Now, what has that got to do with folikes? SFA, really. Clothes may make the man (person), but, the music is the man (person).

Of course, I've seldom seen a whore without makeup. Nothing like a coat of paint to spruce up an old barn. Whitewas is better than no wash.... help me out, eh... I am running out of old folk sayings.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Peace
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 04:22 PM

A stitch in time is a half dozen of the other.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Shaneo
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 04:26 PM

When my shirt was always hanging out , my wife gave me grief , now it's a fashion , my hair is still all over the place but now it also is a fashion to have hair like mine , the same about shaving , now it's a fashion , so we folkies start trends.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Scoville
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 04:40 PM

GUEST sounds like an uptight, overgroomed, bore. Suit jackets and stiff collars get in the way when you play, anyway, and makeup is a pain to maintain at hot outdoor festivals.

Besides, I like a guy who looks comfortable. Give me flannel shirts and overalls any day.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 04:43 PM

I am just a natural slob. I don't have to work at it and I don't have a particular philosopohy that thinks it is a good idea. I do think some is cultural..some cultures think it is admirable to dress up and some think it is a sin (I come from the latter)..and leads to putting on airs, enticing the opposite sex, etc. mg

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Wesley S
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 04:47 PM

Gosh - I've always worn handmade Armani, Hickey Freeman or Oxxford suits on stage. With a vest for capos and picks. I just assumed that y'all did the same thing.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Peace
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 04:49 PM

Well, I used to. But people laughed. No one told me velour was passe.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 04:49 PM

This reminds of a talent show on UK tv many years wherein Lonnie Donegan critised a rock band for dressing like they'd just stepped off a building site! My sympathies were with the band - not that boring old fart Mr Donegan!

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: beardedbruce
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 04:52 PM

Because we are saving for that Martin D-100 instead of frittering away our money like this...

http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2007/fortune/0704/gallery.pimpmyjet.fortune/index.html?cnn=yes

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 04:52 PM

We are scruffy because we can be.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 04:52 PM

o tempora, o mores

G.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Peace
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 04:53 PM

That's one way to find out who gives a flyin' f#ck.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: skipy
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 05:09 PM

I often take a pride in how I look at a festival, that is if I am in dressing up mode. The rest of the year I usually look like a tramp & I have no problem with that!
Skipy

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 05:39 PM

I kind of take pride in always looking (what I consider to be reasonably....) nice.......it makes me feel better. But I still love folk music so who gives a damn?

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 06:09 PM

Why do chimpanzees have fleas? Why does the grass grow so high?

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 06:30 PM

The reason folkies look scruffy is the same reason why we drive ten-year-old cars. It's because we're too busy playing music to watch a lot of television. As a result, we don't see the advertisements telling us how unsexy we are because we don't dress in the latest fashions and drive the newest cars.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Don Firth
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 06:34 PM

Well, peas and chips, which "folkies" are you speaking of? That's quite a generalization.

Speaking particularly of the Sixties, but this is also what I observe now:   I knew folk singers who wanted to go for the "folk" image (whatever that is), and even though they usually dressed reasonably well most of the time, if they had a performance coming up, they'd put on something scruffy looking (patched plaid shirt, worn-out jeans, etc.). But these were not the rule. Most of the performers I knew, including those singing in coffeehouses, dressed fairly well, if informally:   clean shirt, clean slacks; women singers often in skirts and blouses or sweaters. But coffeehouses tended to be fairly informal anyway. Although there was one coffeehouse where I sang a lot that drew the "after-show crowd," and it was not unusual to see a few tuxedos and formals late in the evening—in the audience, but not on the singers.

I am a city kid, and never tried to con anyone into thinking that I am a member of "the folk" (again, whatever that is). In fact, although "generically," most people probably think of me as a "folk singer," I do not. I sing songs to the accompaniment of a guitar. It just happens that most of the songs I sing are folk songs. But that's not all I sing. Borrowing a leaf from Richard Dyer-Bennet's book (he eschewed the sobriquet "folk singer" and referred to himself as "The Twentieth Century Minstrel"), I regard myself not so much as a folk singer, but as a modern-day minstrel or troubadour (although I don't have quite as much hair as that fellow—I'm clean-shaven, which blows another stereotyped "folk singer" image). I'm a professional musician (people pay me) and I try to act like one.

When I sang in coffeehouses, I usually dressed in shirt and slacks, often wearing a dark turtleneck comme ça (having been told by a number of female friends that I look good in turtlenecks). When I did concerts (rather than emulating Richard Dyer-Bennet by wearing a tuxedo or white tie and tails), I often wore a white shirt and tie, grey flannel slacks, and a navy-blue blazer (like THIS—but that's not me, of course). Not quite "formal," but hardly "scruffy." I consider it a matter of showing respect for my audiences.

Bob Nelson (Deckman—we were a duo for a while back then and still perform together from time to time) always dresses well when he performs; generally casually (shirt and slacks), but never scruffy. Patti McLaughlin, with whom I used to perform often, generally wore a very nice-looking skirt and sweater combination. Judy Flenniken (another singing partner), when doing concerts, frequently wore a gold lamé cocktail dress (sumpin sorta like THIS). Trés chic.

So "scruffy folkies," like THIS or THIS is a pretty broad generalization.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Stringsinger
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 06:36 PM

I think this question deserves a legit answer. Folk music has always been associated with working-class or rural people. It's been a contrast to the glitzy and glamorous approach of the conventional music biz.

Actually, this was a complaint by the late Lee Hays of the Weavers who thought that it was insulting to working-class rural people to insist that folk singers wear overhauls or work clothes on stage. Growing up in a folk tradition, Lee noted that the country people always dressed up when going to public functions. They wouldn't be caught dead in their work clothes.

Later, when the Folk Revival (Scare) took place, the uniform of the "folk singer" became the work clothes of the rural poor. It became an affectation.

I've noticed that pictures of Leadbelly, Earl Scruggs, A.P.Carter and many other folk singer/instrumentalists show them in suits and ties.

Many of the clothes worn by traditional American folk singers from the 20's and 30's were not high fashion. They were poor but they tried to look as good as they could under the circumstances. Many old photos show the men in suits and ties.

In the Sixties, the suit and tie became a symbol of the elite and the styles of dress changed to accomodate the mistaken idea of the clothes of the working class, mainly worn by those of the upper middle class, namely, jeans, overhauls, raggedy shirts, etc.

The Folk Scare brought about a new wardrobe and has remained.

Frank Hamilton

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Mickey191
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 07:13 PM

I think the general population "dresses down"-many look like they've wrestled an alligator, many look as if they don't own a comb. I do loathe the baggy pants look which is now showing up in toddler's catalogues. Conversely, teenage girls with low slung jeans where one can see their crack, is the rage. Used to be one could only see the plumber's crack when he was working under your sink!