Tech: Clean PC - Good Protection Software?

Subject: Tech: Clean PC - Good Protection Software?
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 08:31 AM

Hi All.
Because of the crud which builds up over time on a computer, I am about to take a WInXP computer back to basics - restoring one of my original backuups and essentially starting from scratch with what I install on it.
I have decided that it would make sense to put in some of the more useful utilities, for keeping the nasties at bay. Of course, like most of us, I don't have money to waste where a commercial product has an equivalent free programme which does essentially the same job.
Obviously, I don't want to find that I have acidentally installed something malicious, which is masquerading as a legitimate programme, either.
I already use certaun pieces of software which I am happy with:-
The free personal versions of Zone Alarm and AVG-Antivirus for essential protection and also Ad-Aware and Spybot Search & Destroy to rooy out the spyware.
I am looking for advice on other extra protections which might be worth adding.
What utillities have you used, and were they worth having?
Did they create other problems, and if so, what or why?

In the past, on Mudcat various programmes have been mentioned by members, I'd like sone info about what they do and how they might help me.
Examples include :-
The Proximotron?
Hijack-This

I would also like opinions of the programmes which clean out junk from your system. Registry repair tools, Junk File Cleaning software (the ones which remove temp files and unwanted cookies), programmes which claim to find duplicate files, so you can keep one master copy and delete the rest.
I would also be interested in opinions of programmes which manage your system, stop unnecessary programmes running without you asking, or reclaim wasted memory usage locked up by poor programming. And what about "tweaking" Windows settings so the computer runs more smoothly?

I am sure the people who use them will have opinions about their effectiveness.
I am also certain that I am not the only person who might benefit from an up-to date review of what is available.

If any of you respond, I'll probably ask more specific questions in the light of what you might say.
Many thanks in advance.
Quack!
Geoff the Duck.

Subject: RE: Tech: Clean PC - Good Protection Software?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 10:07 AM

I recently was forced to do a "reinstall" of WinXP due to a mysterious corruption in some of the more arcane built-in tools.

My original version was a pre-SP one, but I had ordered the CDs for SP1 and SP2, so I figured I was in pretty good shape.

I had previously "merged" the original and SP2 disks (which includes SP1) onto an "installation CD" so I didn't have to go through separate installation and update steps. (Creating the merged installation CD was about a 15 hour project, but I'd recommend it for those who want to be "efficient" if an emergency arises.)

After reinstalling at SP2 configuration, a visit to the update site found about 70MB of required updates, which with my dial-up connection was an 11 hour download. These are what you really do need (as of a month ago) after an "original" reinstall and SP2 update.

Your "recent backup" may have some or all of them, but don't forget to check with the update site. Get your AV installed and running before you make any connection to the web, of course.

In addition to the Ad-Aware SE and Spybot S&D, I'd recommend that you install HiJack This, run it once after your new setup is done, and save the report so you'll have a record of your new configuration. I don't recommend, for most people, attempting to use it for "editing" the configuration without expert hand-holding.

The Disk Cleanup that's built into WinXP will remove all the temp files, cookies, etc, if you tell it to, so add-on programs are, IMO, rather a waste of perfectly good machine resources. There are a few that some people may find helpful - in lieu of an RTFM - and most of them are relatively harmless, even if unnecessary. "Utilities" that you see in pop-up/insert adds on the web, however, are a common source of spyware; so get recommendations from people you trust, and be sure you don't get sucked in by "simulations" with similar names when you go to get any that you decide you want.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Clean PC - Good Protection Software?
From: dwditty
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 10:24 AM

Panda
SpySweeper
Adaware
Spybot

I run these all on a daily basis

Subject: RE: Tech: Clean PC - Good Protection Software?
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 11:14 AM

John - I am very aware that one of the first steps with an old backup is to get the Antivirus protection up and running (with current rather than obsolete virus definitions).
I am also aware that a working firewall will stop other nasties getting through.
I am also aware that anything which leaps unsolicited off a web page at me and says "Trust me, I'm your friend. I'll look after you" is likely to be as trustworthy as the snake who sold Adam the apple.

I can't recall where my copy of XP falls relative to the official Service Pack updates. I expect I will have to restore the copy and then see what patches are needed. At least we have broadband, so downloading CD quantities of data isn't as much of a problem. It still takes a long time to install Microsoft patches, but a lot of that is because it insists you reboot your computer between every patch.
At least once the process has been updated to April 07, I would then be able to back up (using Acronis True Image) the clean system at that point in time, before installing new software.

Quack!
GtD.

Subject: RE: Tech: Clean PC - Good Protection Software?
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 11:32 AM

Previous post was getting a bit long, so time to cut short and start a new one.

Specific query - Hijack This.
People ( not just you , John) on the web say install and run Hijack This. They usually then follow the advice with - "If you are not an expert, do not try to alter things based on what you think the LOG tells you.
I am NOT an expert, just someone who uses computers a lot.
SO - what is the purpose of me running Hijack This, if I am then not going to do anything with the information obtained? Or alternatively, What should I do with the information logged?

Quack!
Geoff.

Subject: RE: Tech: Clean PC - Good Protection Software?
From: GUEST,woodsie
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 11:52 AM

Also try CCleaner and Eusing registry cleaner - both free (google for the download sites)

Subject: RE: Tech: Clean PC - Good Protection Software?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 12:03 PM

Geoff -

No intention to insult your understanding. I just thought that noting the amount of updating you might encounter might be of interest.

With respect to HiJack This:

There are several sites available where you can:

1. Run current AdAware SE
2. Run current Spybot S&D
3. Run Hijack This and save the log.
4. Post the log at the website and request advice.

"Experts" at the site can use your log, produced by Hijack This, to identify "things that shouldn't be there," and can give you specific instructions on what to do and what to click (and what not to) in order to get things in order. The main purpose is to help people with spyware and/or other malware that isn't detected and removed by the conventional programs.

As an "amateur" you can look at an archived HiJack This log and compare what was running at the time you made the log (presumedly when everything was working) to a fresh log made when you find a problem. You may find something simple - like a new program you've installed - that you can just uninstall to see if the problem goes away, or a process that you can remove from the Start Up folder to try to fix things, so you can make some use of it if you make a log to use for reference before problems come up.

HiJack This is a very powerful Registry Editor, so the advice that you don't try to use it directly to try to make fixes, unless you really understand the Registry, is valid. Having it on your machine before you have a problem, and having a "reference log" that it's written when everything worked, can be a way of finding what's changed, and a way to provide help for any "local experts" you might need to call. You can use conventional methods, like uninstalling a program or just ending the process in Task Manager to try out fixes that the log suggests might be questionable; but attempting to use Hijack This directly as a registry editor - it's main purpose - can be hazardous.

If you really want an idea of what the program is good for, one of several sites you might check out is at:

Tom Coyote.

Plan on a couple of hours to read all of the instructions if you want to understand the process. This, like other similar sites, is a "volunteer" site, and deserves to be treated with respect by observing the rules. There are actually quite a few sites much like this one, but it's one I have bookmarked for the "just in case" situations.

(You should follow the instructions, and run current Ad-Aware SE and current Spybot S&D immediately prior to running Hijack This to make your archive log, just so there's not a lot of extraneous junk in the log.)

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Clean PC - Good Protection Software?
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 12:31 PM

John - no offence taken or intended. I was just making it clear that I am not a computer/internet newbie who clicks on every pop-up (I may have been so at some time past before I heard the warnings), and am looking for useful advice.
Thanks for your explanation of Hijack This. I have wondered for a while what it was supposed to be used for. Your description makes sense as something to run.
Would the advice be to run it routinely before and after installing new programmes, or is that just being over paranoid? Is it better used simply to compare things against the original state of the computer?

Quack!
GtD.

Subject: RE: Tech: Clean PC - Good Protection Software?
From: 8_Pints
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 02:07 PM

Hi Geoff,

"Belarc Advisor" is a pretty useful free tool that analyses your system configuration, not just whether you are up to date with antivirus and XP security updates.

It gives a rating out of 10 (mine shows 2.5 out of 10) despite being up to date with AV and XP updates, and shows how things can be tightened up pretty lucidly.

Use Google to find the web-site and download the utility. It does nothing without your permission, and displays all the Product Code Keys for your installed software. Quite useful seeing how much is installed that you never requested!

Good luck,

Bob

Subject: RE: Tech: Clean PC - Good Protection Software?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 02:08 PM

Unless you run into a problem where you need to post a log, your archive is just so that you have something to compare what processes were running when things were right to what's going on when there's a problem. I don't make new logs very often, but then I don't make very frequeent program additions/removals.

If you need to post a log, you'll want to update and run Ad-Aware and Spybot, and update Hijack This, to be sure you have the latest versions of them all, before you make the log that you post. Since the only thing you get when you run it is a log of what processes are open on your machine, there's not much sense in making the running of a new log a regularly scheduled thing. If you think of it when you've installed or removed a program, a fresh log won't hurt anything.

The main thing is to have an idea of what it is and where to get it IF/WHEN you need it for something major. For that, any old logs you've made won't be of interest. You'll have to run a fresh one to post.

Secondarily, you may be able to get some clues for fixing simpler things if you have a reasonably recent log to consult (and if you remember where you put it when it might be useful). You'll need the program handy to run a "current log" to compare with the archived one. Anything "different" between the two logs is "suspicious," but of course you still have to figure out if it's "significant" and then find a way to safely change it to see if the problem gets solved.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Clean PC - Good Protection Software?
From: My guru always said
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 05:42 PM

Hi Geoff, just had to install new hard drive (old one corrupted by time delay virus) & set up from scratch myself & I'm trying Windows Live One Care Package. Day One & it seems to be doing the business for anti-virus, spyware etc etc. Seems good though I don't know how to drive it yet - feels safe for the moment. Wish I'd had those SP's on disk, good idea! Good Luck!!

Subject: RE: Tech: Clean PC - Good Protection Software?
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 06:06 PM

Geoff...I use and LOVE The Proxomitron.

It is a web 'filter'...that is, you set various parameters for what you want it to pay attention to, and it deals with cookies, ads, pop-ups, redirects, etc...etc...so many things.

It does a lot right 'out of the box', but you 'can' go get extra sets of config files that experts have written and do even more. (I HATE it when a page forces a link to open in a new page or tab....I can easily do that if I wish....so I found a filter which disables 'target=blank' and changes that behavior.)

The fascinating thing about Prox is that you forget how much it is doing till you turn it off for awhile! (Yes, it can easily be disabled temporarily. I need to turn it off when accessing Google Maps...not sure why-some javascript issue, I guess. I could probably fix that, but I'm just used to turning Prox off when I go there.)

I'll try to answer other questions if you wish.

Subject: RE: Tech: Clean PC - Good Protection Software?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 06:34 PM

A "minor problem" with the Live One Care Antivirus function has been reported. It may have been fixed, but was still present at the last newsletter I got a week or two ago.

If you use Outlook for email, all your email messages are contained in one database file. When Live One Care finds an infected message, it deletes the file. Receive one infected email, and all your email messages are gone.

If you use Outlook Express for email, all the email messages in a folder are one database file. Receive one infected message, all the messages in the folder that contains it (likely your inbox?) when Live One Care finds the infection are gone. Since OE makes a separate .dbx file for each folder, messages in other folders may survive.

Microsoft is quoted as saying they know that's how it works. They say it's a "feature."

Blog: Microsoft OneCare Can Eat Your Email is an early report of the Outlook problem.

An "update," previously at One Care Email Update was "temporarily unavailable" a few minutes ago, so maybe there's an update to the update coming. I'll post the link anyway, as it should be back soon.(?)

Vista users can find many of the features that Outlook provided, without using Outlook. Anyone so afflicted might be interested in Living an Outlook Free Life with Windows Vista

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Clean PC - Good Protection Software?
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 07:10 PM

"program(me)s ....which reclaim wasted memory usage locked up by poor programming.

These were useful up to Windows98...they have almost no relevance in later WIN versions, due to better memory management.

Subject: RE: Tech: Clean PC - Good Protection Software?
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 07:14 PM

as for "Junk File Cleaning software (the ones which remove temp files and unwanted cookies" this one has a good reputation. I have used it in Win98, and it worked fine...(though you need to be aware of exactly you ask it to do...you can delete more than you want)...I have not bothered once I got XP.

Subject: RE: Tech: Clean PC - Good Protection Software?
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 07:23 PM

I almost forget this one, though I have used it for 4-5 years. Win Patrol monitors your system for changes. (and the cute little Scottie dog goes "wurf" to alert you.)

This is a gem! If you update a program, it asks you if you are aware & approve of the update. If you install a program whose *default* is to start up with Windows, it asks you if you approve of that setting. (I 'mostly' do not...I prefer to use certain programs at times of my choosing.)

The main use is to guard against illegal and/or surreptitious installation of programs (malware) that 'some' places try to stick you with.

It monitors the registry and keeps you informed...nice.

Subject: RE: Tech: Clean PC - Good Protection Software?
From: My guru always said
Date: 15 Apr 07 - 05:53 AM

Many thanks for that info John, was unaware & haven't had a good look yet. Would be very grateful for any news on that Outlook score!

Subject: RE: Tech: Clean PC - Good Protection Software?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 15 Apr 07 - 10:17 AM

The "Update" link up above has been modified slightly, but only to comment on the amount of traffic at the blog site where the OneCare email problem first appeared. The Microsoft blog site is now at 173 posts, with lots of fairly pissed people contributing. As a casual interest thing, Microsoft Support Blog might be interesting to read, for a view of how Microsoft outsourcing of support has failed incredibly; but I'll have to read it more closely before I can tell if there's anything of real help for Outlook or Outlook Express people using OneCare.

Microsoft has produced a Knowledge Base article that gives instructions for what to do if your email disappears:

E-mail files are quarantined by Windows Live OneCare KB934614.

If you're using OneCare, and Outlook or Outlook Express I would recommend that you visit the page and save it to your own machine (preferably as a .mht - web archive file) for future reference. You may also want to bookmark the KB article page so you can check for updates.

Debate in the Support thread above suggests that the KB article may not cover all possible cases, but for most people it probably provides a way to recover if something (or everything) disappears.

I have NOT SEEN any reports of similar results with any other email programs, but can't rule out the possibility that some other ones may be similarly affected.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Clean PC - Good Protection Software?
From: My guru always said
Date: 15 Apr 07 - 02:39 PM

Thanks John, have had a quick read. My first idea is to allow my mail to come in to an empty inbox and see if OneCare thinks it's clean. If so, then I'll move it all to a temporary folder to peruse & sort at leisure, leaving an empty inbox for the next lot. Probably won't work but it seems easier than the resolution :-)

Subject: RE: Tech: Clean PC - Good Protection Software?
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 15 Apr 07 - 04:26 PM

Thanks all for information so far, in particular the recommendations which actually describe why the programme is worth installing.
In the past certain Mudcatters have asked the question - "If you want to know technical computer stuff, why ask on a folk forum?" but as far as I am concerned, I get good unbiased advice from people who have good judgement and a wide experience.
I'll check out the programmes mentioned and if necessary check back with you.
Quack!
Geoff.

Subject: RE: Tech: Clean PC - Good Protection Software?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 15 Apr 07 - 07:13 PM

Mgas -

If you're using Outlook Express, the inbox is a separate file, and keeping it empty will minimize what gets quarantined.

If you're using Outlook, all your emails, your address book, and any calendar and messaging features you use are apparently all within a single file, and moving messages to a different folder won't help. If one message goes to quarantine, the whole file, and all Outlook content, goes.

I haven't seen anything on what happens if you use another email program. Since the common "email" format lends itself to database file storage, what affects one message may take others with it; but the extent of the problem, if any, hasn't been reported.

The problem probably doesn't appear, at least in the ways reported, if you just use your browser to view email, but I've seen no comment on that. Since that method leaves all the messages on the server, and makes it difficult to actually have the messages stored on your own computer, they should be out of reach of the OneCare AV functions on your machine, except as individual messages.(????)

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Clean PC - Good Protection Software?
From: My guru always said
Date: 21 Apr 07 - 05:23 AM

Hi John, many thanks again! Yes I use Outlook Express and thought that may be the case. Keeping fingers crossed!

Subject: RE: Tech: Clean PC - Good Protection Software?
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 06:38 PM

Just reporting back folks. I have installed a number of the suggested programmes. I am still wondering what some of them do, but Win Patrol's little scottie dog has been working hard warning me if anything tries to install itself without asking.
Quack!
GtD.

Subject: RE: Tech: Clean PC - Good Protection Software?
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 21 Sep 07 - 02:54 PM

After about 3 months, I am finally re-jigging the old 'puter.
I've taken it back to an early clean state and removed the crud which was already there - Real Player and AOL and the like.
As it happens, the XP installation already had SP2 installed, so that saved a bit of messing around.

I ran Hijack This before starting and will run it at intervals when I start making bigger changes. I am backing up my changes incrementally using Acronis True Image, so I can return to any specific point in the process and re-start from there if I have a problem.
Belarc Advisor is definitely useful.
Win Patrol is alerting me when programmes try to change the registry, so I can okay or deny the changes.
One useful trick with Win Patrol is it's cookie management. It makes keeping selected cookies (such as Mudcat) easy and then allowing you to delete ones not on your list to save.
Another useful one is the ability to set a blacklist of cookies by typing in some text from the cookie name. It will then automatically delete any cookies containing that string. I have been using it in conjunction with Ad-Aware and Spybot S&D. If they find tracking cookies on my machine, I can use WinPatrol to prevent them being put onto my computer again.

Currently I am downloading and installing Microsoft Security Patches.
Would you believe that from a total of 76 patches, all except 15 were security flaws which could allow an attacker to take over your computer.
        The remaining 15 mostly just stop the computer working at all.

What a wonderful computer system...

Quack!
GtD.

Subject: RE: Tech: Clean PC - Good Protection Software?
From: Bill D
Date: 21 Sep 07 - 03:41 PM

Yep, Geoff, I had two different programs TRY to set themselves to load at startup recently. Scottie & I took care of THAT quickly!
   Scottie also tells me when my AVG anti-virus updates its main program...which I am glad to allow.

Glad it is working as advertised for you!

Now, if I could just find something to override a program's window from going all the way to the top on my screen, as *I* prefer my toolbar to be at the top, and the window ends up under it.

Subject: RE: Tech: Clean PC - Good Protection Software?
From: Bill D
Date: 21 Sep 07 - 03:44 PM

(Oh...I had almost forgotten that WinPatrol 'can' deal with some cookies, as I use Opera a lot, and WinPatrol seems to have settings only for IE and Mozilla-based cookies)

I use cookie settings inside my browser instead....they are getting quite sophisticated)

Subject: RE: Tech: Clean PC - Good Protection Software?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Sep 07 - 08:14 PM

I use SpyBot Search&Destory to monitor my registry. It seems to do a pretty good job, though the window that pops up asking if I'll allow the change doesn't let me actually read all of the choices it has to offer, so sometimes it's a shot in the dark. I just found and installed the newest Spybot version, so perhaps they have fixed it.

I also use AdAware and Spyware Blaster. Is WinPatrol going to work better or differently that what I already have in place? Do they play well together? I tried another program one time, Ewido Anti-malware, and it didn't play well, so I went back to Spyware Blaster.

Any thoughts?

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: Clean PC - Good Protection Software?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Sep 07 - 08:24 PM

AVG and Spyware Doctor seem do do the job well enough for me, with Windows XP.

Subject: RE: Tech: Clean PC - Good Protection Software?
From: Bill D
Date: 21 Sep 07 - 10:31 PM

WinPatrol is a different animal - but it plays well with everything *I* have...anti-vir, firewall, etc...

WinPatrol's primary job is to notify you of attempts to change something...like install software you didn't order, or an update...or, as I said, an attempt to set 'defaults' you weren't aware of. It is not an IDENTIFIER of malware..it just tells you when some function is being changed...it does more IF you ask it to...like the cookies.