BS: 'Dickens' World

Subject: BS: 'Dickens' World
From: Wordsmith
Date: 26 Apr 07 - 04:29 AM

Slated for opening in Chatham, England. Fact or fiction? "Can I have more, sir?"

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dickens' World
From: jacqui.c
Date: 26 Apr 07 - 07:00 AM

Different - I'd like to get to see it.

In my book, anything that opens the pages of literature can't be bad. If this encourages people to go away and read the books it's done some good. Even just to give an idea of life in Victorian England, so long as it is relatively authentic, would be good.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dickens' World
From: The Barden of England
Date: 26 Apr 07 - 07:23 AM

Yes it's true, see here:-

http://www.dickensworld.co.uk/

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dickens' World
From: Mr Fox
Date: 26 Apr 07 - 11:21 AM

They're having trouble with the gift shop. The rats keeep escaping......

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dickens' World
From: MMario
Date: 26 Apr 07 - 11:26 AM

I found the job description for "performers" to be very interesting ; I suspect the "performers" will be little more then costumed cashiers and salespeople. (judging by the fact the "performers" have to take lessons in cash register management and stock rotation)

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dickens' World
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 26 Apr 07 - 11:30 AM

Watch out for pickpockets.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dickens' World
From: RangerSteve
Date: 26 Apr 07 - 12:50 PM

As you enter the gate, you're assiged a villain, who hounds you throughout your trip. But don't worry, he'll get what's coming to him in the end. They will be especially hard on orphans, but the orphans will be rewarded handsomely at the end. Don't be surprised to find that the family members you came with aren't really related to you at all, but the total strangers next to you are your brother and sister, and all your problems will vanish and life will be perfect from now on. Dickens wrote great novels, but I could never accept the way he wrapped things up, except when it came to punishing the bad guys. Daniel Quilps death is one of the most satisfying ones ever written.

Also, I have a problem with being immersed in the smells of Victorian London. I assume they're talking about the pleasant ones.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dickens' World
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Apr 07 - 05:17 PM

Doesn't really sound too good to me.

On the other hand down the coast a bit in Broadstairs there is the Dickens House Museum, in the home of the original of Betsy Trotwood, David Copperfield's Aunt. I went there last year during the Broadstairs Folk Festival, and it's a great little place. Good festival too.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dickens' World
From: katlaughing
Date: 26 Apr 07 - 05:25 PM

You and me both, RangerSteve: ...immersed in the urban streets, sounds and smells of the 19th century. Watch out for the slops!

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dickens' World
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 26 Apr 07 - 06:45 PM

It is not quite ready yet, and will open next month (May). I performed at the official opening concert, and it was in some respects a good experience. Certainly the Holloways, the lead act, were a bunch of nice and talented kids.

I have another connection with the attraction, but the detail is confidential.

I have been round the unfinished parts, and I think it is going to be a lot of fun, and educative, and it has an innovative outreach programme devised by Kevin Christie the MD linking to a range of Dickensian sites throughout Kent ("the Dickens Trail").

You should ALL go as soon as it is open.

Anyone who knows of a person plying a trade that would have been "in period" for Dickens' London, and might lawfully wish to operate a small stall in the attraction, PM me. For the avoidance of doubt this does not include "flower sellers" who do a "bit on the side, sleeve job, luvvie".

Cobbler, basket maker, whistle maker, etc, be imaginative (in a Dickensian sort of way).

One of the things that might be in the wind is some music from the period, too.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dickens' World
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Apr 07 - 06:49 PM

Housebreaker, pickpocket, whore, garrotter...

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dickens' World
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 26 Apr 07 - 07:05 PM

"I have another connection with the attraction, but the detail is confidential."

"You should ALL go as soon as it is open."

Hmmm ...

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dickens' World
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 26 Apr 07 - 07:33 PM

I shall ask my friend George about it.. I suspect his great great great grandfather will be rotating rapidly in his crypt.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dickens' World
From: Rapparee
Date: 27 Apr 07 - 08:53 AM

I'd like to be a cat skinner. Or maybe the guy that drops the blade on what's-his-name in "A Tale of Two Cities." Or a ratcatcher. Or a mudlark. Or a coneycatcher. Or a dropcove who maces joskins.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dickens' World
From: Amos
Date: 27 Apr 07 - 10:31 AM

'Ods blud, I suppose they use chocolate bits and lemonade in the chamber pots when it's time for the old gardez-l'eau. And the pickpockets are hired magicians who give you back your wallet afterwards. And the cripples and lepers are robots, eh?

Of all the towns in all the empires from all the eras of human history, you had to choose this one...



A

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dickens' World
From: Rapparee
Date: 27 Apr 07 - 12:08 PM

Since Chuckie died in 1870 he missed Jack the Ripper. But from what I've read in Mayhew and other contemporary accounts of the London underground at the time Chuck didn't miss much -- in fact, he toned his books down A LOT.

Will there be open sewers? Whorehouses peopled by children? Much of London at the time of Dickens wasn't the most pleasant of places, contrary to hindsight.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dickens' World
From: Amos
Date: 27 Apr 07 - 12:17 PM

I don't think his friends ever called Mister Dickens Chucky, so that rules that out; and his enemies did not either. Nor did anyone who knew him, I am sure.

It appears, therefore, that yon Rapaire is but a social climber.
A creeping jenny, or a genning creepy, or whatever you call those things.


A

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dickens' World
From: Rapparee
Date: 27 Apr 07 - 12:20 PM

You're correct, Amos. Charles Dickens was never known as "Chuck" or "Chucky." He was known far and wide as "Charlie Boy".

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dickens' World
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Apr 07 - 01:36 PM

It's all in Mayhew's London Labour and the London Poor - here and here.

As Rapaire said, Dickens didn't exaggerate on the whole - he didn't need to. The extravagant characters people often think of as examples of Dickens going over the top leap out of every other page of Mayhew. The thing is, he was an extremely good shorthand writer, and he listened to what people actually said.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dickens' World
From: Rapparee
Date: 27 Apr 07 - 02:28 PM

Rapaire has read several real books (i.e., ink, paper, binding) about 19th Century London's social and economic conditions. Books like Mayhew, contemporary accounts.

Charley-boy toned it down.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dickens' World
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 27 Apr 07 - 03:29 PM

Oh dearie me. What a bunch of cynics and naysayers.

Dickens is one of the most generally respected English writers. If the attraction persuades people to read him it will be beneficial. If it brings people (slowly at first) to an understanding of the social conditions of the time it will be beneficial. If it adds to the knowledge it will be beneficial. If it achieves all this without tasting too much like medicine it will be beneficial. If it brings some money into the North Kent blackspot and helps regenerate the contaminated old dockyard it will be beneficial.

It does however need to walk a tricky tightrope between Disnification on the one side (which I think it does) and schoolmarmishness on the other. I think it does that too.

No, I'm not an investor, and I have no direct interest in the revenues nor in the share values.

Go on. Go and have a look as soon as it opens.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dickens' World
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 27 Apr 07 - 03:49 PM

I think we're just having a bit of fun with it.

Speaking of which, let's play 'What's Richard's angle on this?' I'll start it off: I think he's going to be role-playing a Dickensian lawyer, waiting to talk the unwary into lawsuits against Dickens World - after they've been pickpocketed or garotted or splashed with something unpleasant ... Be forewarned, read Bleak House.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dickens' World
From: The Barden of England
Date: 27 Apr 07 - 04:36 PM

No, Richard's nowhere near Bleak House. He did live very close to Gads Hill though.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dickens' World
From: Rapparee
Date: 27 Apr 07 - 05:04 PM

Can I be Nicholas Nickleby?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dickens' World
From: RangerSteve
Date: 27 Apr 07 - 05:20 PM

Rapaire, that sounds like a good idea. For a little extra money, a person can apply to be a Dickens character and live out one of the novels.

Richard, if I'm one of the people that came across as a cynic or a naysayer, I didn't mean to. The concept of Dickens World is easy to make fun of, but actually, it sounds like a great idea. I'll probably never get to the U.K., so I'm a little bit jealous.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dickens' World
From: Rapparee
Date: 27 Apr 07 - 10:40 PM

Actually, if I were to be someone from the time of Dickens I think I'd like to be Prince Albert or one of that level of society. Then I wouldn't have to associate with all of those.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dickens' World
From: GUEST,Ebenezer Nobkin and Mr and Mrs Fizzywingle
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 05:43 AM

it's the f---ing stupid names we don't like!

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dickens' World
From: GUEST,Mr Barnabus Cherriwinkle
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 05:52 AM

I can see nothing objectionable or strange about his choice of names.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dickens' World
From: GUEST,Humphrey Bollocksbag, Esq.
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 11:27 AM

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dickens' World
From: GUEST,Humphrey Bollocksbag, Esq.
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 11:28 AM

This is certainly entertaining. What odd names others have!

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dickens' World
From: melodeonboy
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 11:34 AM

I think it more likely that Richard will be playing Mr. Gradgrind.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dickens' World
From: GUEST,Mrs Whoops
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 03:08 PM

Lawks a mercy! Is that Bollocksbag the younger, or Bollocksbag the aged parent. Come in and rest yourself, young master!

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dickens' World
From: GUEST,Charlie Womblefoot
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 03:16 PM

Knowing as how you literwary folks are endlessly entertained by weal cockney chawacters like meself sayin' wees for wubble ewes - have a seat Bollocksbag old man, and zoon you'll be veeing yourself on account of me stweet awab turns of phwase......cor blimey, you vill!

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dickens' World
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 03:45 PM

I am not a "cockney chawacter". For the record.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dickens' World
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 07:11 PM

The best musical character would be ex-soldier Matthew Bagnet, the bassoon player, with his music shop, and his splendid wife:

To one of the little shops in this street, which is a musician's shop, having a few fiddles in the window, and some Pan's pipes and a tambourine, and a triangle, and certain elongated scraps of music, Mr. George directs his massive tread. And halting at a few paces from it, as he sees a soldierly looking woman, with her outer skirts tucked up, come forth with a small wooden tub, and in that tub commence a–whisking and a–splashing on the margin of the pavement, Mr. George says to himself, "She's as usual, washing greens. I never saw her, except upon a baggage–waggon, when she wasn't washing greens!"...

...Mrs. Bagnet is not at all an ill–looking woman. Rather large–boned, a little coarse in the grain, and freckled by the sun and wind which have tanned her hair upon the forehead, but healthy, wholesome, and bright–eyed. A strong, busy, active, honest–faced woman of from forty–five to fifty....

...Mr. Bagnet is an ex–artilleryman, tall and upright, with shaggy eyebrows and whiskers like the fibres of a coco–nut, not a hair upon his head, and a torrid complexion. His voice, short, deep, and resonant, is not at all unlike the tones of the instrument to which he is devoted. Indeed there may be generally observed in him an unbending, unyielding, brass–bound air, as if he were himself the bassoon of the human orchestra. Young Woolwich is the type and model of a young drummer....

...It was the old girl that brought out my musical abilities. I should have been in the artillery now but for the old girl. Six years I hammered at the fiddle. Ten at the flute. The old girl said it wouldn't do; intention good, but want of flexibility; try the bassoon. The old girl borrowed a bassoon from the bandmaster of the Rifle Regiment. I practised in the trenches. Got on, got another, get a living by it!"

I could point out their living likenesses at any decent folk festival today.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dickens' World
From: GUEST,Mrs Whoopsadaisy!
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 08:18 PM

Cor bimey! What larks! You is mistaking of me for Mrs Whoops wot appeared three books ago in Great Incantations.

For the record, I am a large working class female in an apron, and I was in service to Mr and Mrs Warped,the wicked factory owners (hobbies: drinking gin; dressing in filthy rags; beating cripples and being somewhat offensive in manner to the upstanding hero) so I was present at the birth of Charlie Womblefoot - the bastard son and heir to millions of Horace Bumfat(worthless scoundrel, drunkard, womaniser and complete dirty dog).

Due to my basic decency, things will be all right.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dickens' World
From: Desdemona
Date: 29 Apr 07 - 09:56 AM

I wonder if they'll have an onsite daycare/workhouse for employees' children? Anyway, we'll be in England during July; wait'll I tell the kids...I predict that the "boat trip through the Victorian sewers" will be especially popular!

~D

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dickens' World
From: Wordsmith
Date: 01 May 07 - 04:59 AM

Well, I see some of you have been playing while I was away. I agree with those who've said that, hopefully, it will be an educational experience. I haven't had time to read the info, but thanks for the link. I think I'll have to learn to knit if I'm going to audition for the role of Madame LaFarge, much as I disliked her. Now, I just have to get my passport, and find someway to fund a trip to England. Heck, I'd rather go on that Mongolian lark, first. Continue as if I hadn't been here...this is amusing. ;D

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dickens' World
From: Folk Form # 1
Date: 01 May 07 - 10:59 AM

I can't wait for "Reage's World" to open. For the innocents out there, Pauline Reage wrote the Story of O.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dickens' World
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 01 May 07 - 11:21 AM

I suspect we're all in trouble when PratchettWorld opens then....

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dickens' World
From: sapper82
Date: 01 May 07 - 04:18 PM

Why, oh why do people take Dickens' writings as being about "Victorian" London?
Generally speaking Dickens based his writings on his own childhood which predated Victoria's accession to the throne by some years.
With regards to the writings of Henry Mayhew, I note his book was published in 1861 when many the much needed reforms to aleviate the abuses of the time were already in force, the various Factories Acts and other early health and safety legislation being typical examples.
Granted, Dickens' writings did assist in making people aware of the abuses of the time and helped speed up the introduction of similar legislation, but by the 1850's the ball of reform was already rolling and gathering momentum.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dickens' World
From: Wordsmith
Date: 22 May 07 - 05:10 AM

Thank you, Penguin Egg. I never knew the movie was actually based on a book. Well, now it makes sense...one of the best cinematographic "adult" films with an actual plot. Yes, "Reage's World" would be painfully tortuous.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dickens' World
From: GUEST,Smallweed
Date: 22 May 07 - 05:21 AM

Oliver Twist, "Can I have more?" What about Oliver Stick, "I've had enough, thank you!".. or Oliver Bust- "Burrrrrpppp!"

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dickens' World
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 22 May 07 - 09:45 PM

G'day sapper82,

Mayhew's work appeared in "Punch" from 1841 ... and his first collected volume was published in 1851 ... so your disassociation of this reporting from current conditions is unfair and inaccurate.

Regard(les),

Bob

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dickens' World
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 May 07 - 05:39 PM

Refresh.

It opened today and I hear rumours that it was queued round the block.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Dickens' World
From: GUEST,Scoville at Mom's
Date: 25 May 07 - 09:09 PM

. . . the sights, sounds, and smells . . .

Yay. Those 19th-century slum smells are sure to bring in the tourists. Whew.

The question is, can they tell us what happened to Edwin Drood? I just finished reading that fragment and it's driving me absolutely nuts that it's unfinished.