BS: The nature of self declared liberals

Subject: BS: The nature of self declared liberals
From: Rog Peek
Date: 04 May 07 - 05:27 PM

Ten degrees to the left of centre in good times, ten degrees to the right of centre when it affects them personally. - Phil Ochs c.1968

Subject: RE: BS: The nature of self declared liberals
From: Amos
Date: 04 May 07 - 08:47 PM

And your point is? It makes sense to me that there are times when more conservative approaches are appropriate, and times when mopre liberal approaches are vital to growth. Being inflexible in times of change strikes me as part way to insanity. But, just so someone doesn't try to throw this remark back at me, I am talking about tactics, not principles.


A

Subject: RE: BS: The nature of self declared liberals
From: Mrrzy
Date: 04 May 07 - 08:53 PM

Rog - I was just about to quote Phil Ochs! Love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal...

Subject: RE: BS: The nature of self declared liberals
From: Don Firth
Date: 04 May 07 - 08:53 PM

Define "liberal. Define "nature." For that matter, define "self-declared."

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The nature of self declared liberals
From: GUEST,Scoville at Dad's
Date: 04 May 07 - 08:55 PM

I like some of Phil's music but he was no more a moral authority than any of the rest of us. What he thought about liberals carries no more weight than what I or you or anyone else thinks.

Subject: RE: BS: The nature of self declared liberals
From: 282RA
Date: 04 May 07 - 09:14 PM

Maybe people should understand that what Ochs called a liberal has little to do with what the word means today. The liberal of Ochs's day is more like today's soft conservative.

Subject: RE: BS: The nature of self declared liberals
From: Donuel
Date: 04 May 07 - 09:37 PM

I have seen that phrase "the rest of us here" in several places.
It carries the weight of exclusivity at times and other times it has the quality of inclusion.

As a muse:
I wonder what kind of moral authority the rest of us have.

Are "we" the folk song army? Do all the rest of us care?
Are we against poverty war and injustice, unlike the rest of those squares?

When it comes to "the rest of us" try as we may, some of us will forever be more equal than others in various tasks, talents and tendencies.

The rest of us, is a comforting and almost romantic notion to me. I have seen individual evidence that some individuals have great moral intentions and actions, but 'the rest of us here' , well I am not aware if "we" have any moral authority whatsoever.

What is good about many of the 'rest of us here' are those who were already life long friends or those who made fast and lasting friendships through performances, pubs or gatherings.
Are we all part of the rest of us?
Just ask anyone here who has hung out with me ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: The nature of self declared liberals
From: Peace
Date: 04 May 07 - 09:47 PM

Don, are you back to doing graphic art again? I hope so, because I have missed your genius in that area. If you have, where can I go find some?

Subject: RE: BS: The nature of self declared liberals
From: Donuel
Date: 04 May 07 - 10:41 PM

Rense.com has a regular guy now. I make graphic notes for cartoons but mostly try to finish a second batch of paintings I have planned for 4 months.

It sounds wierd but I only recently feel as if I have got back some of my wits since being hit by lightning in an oblque manner a year ago.

I still have no takers or friends to assist in any novel or screenplay projects. That I would prefer to not go it alone is a matter of fun, focus and confidence.


Here is a sample of the nature of my self declared liberalism.


I INDICT YOU! You know who you are.

I listened to the actual neocons, war contractors and PNAC think tank people in the same room, what I heard was an amazing pattern of congratulating each other on what they perceived to be the "strength" in which something was said
AND NEVER QUESTION THE VALIDITY OF WHAT IS SAID

After someone said something, you heard a quick "that was strong" or "yes that had power", when in fact what was said was nonsense in the light of cultural understanding, historic fact and common sense.

After listening for 10 minutes, a voice inside me said "everything these guys have learned, they learned in junior high school".



It makes me terribly sad to see how this country is controlled by shallow egos, shallow thinkers and shallow ethics.

It makes me angry that a arch criminal like Ossama bin Laden can see the predictable cowboy mentality of our administration and manipulate our "leaders" with a prophetic clarity of thought and systematically bankrupt and isolate the United States of America.

Any numbers of people on this forum know this to be true. We knew this to be true 6 years ago.



Now we are being told that we acted with the best of intentions or that mistakes were made but "we must deal with where we are now"

They were either cowards or active war criminals then, and they are cowards and war criminals to this day.

We began this fiasco touting 21st century weapons of surgical precision guided by satellites in space...

and now we use 1st century walls and medieval torture.

We drive young men around until they get blown up so that we can locate the enemy.

We all know this.

Some of us know the real threat to national security is the coming global warming droughts, floods, famines, fires and a frozen Europe who will evacuate to the south.

What is our civilized response to these events?

Our response is similar to the war criminals.

We too are the cowards and the criminally negligent.

Subject: RE: BS: The nature of self declared liberals
From: chazkratz
Date: 05 May 07 - 03:26 AM

Mind if I heap some liberal praise on your last post, Donuel?

Charles

Subject: RE: BS: The nature of self declared liberals
From: Donuel
Date: 05 May 07 - 08:20 AM

That post was a breaking down. A buildimg up has been written by Bill Bradley and Barak Obama. There are step by step plans for America to heal and exel...

unless we are all running from a skin sizzling craklin hot radioactive nuclear plant meltdown from a terrorist attack within 2 years.

I would consider a republican candidate but when 10 of them were asked if there was 'anything they did not like about what America', every single one of them said "Everything is fine=wouldn't change a thing"

Subject: RE: BS: The nature of self declared liberals
From: Rog Peek
Date: 05 May 07 - 10:20 AM

Hello Don

Self declared is easy, - "I am...........!"

Whether you agree with it or not, Phil Ochs's quote was his definition of a liberal.

'Nature',.......Mmmmmmmm......well there you've got me!

Subject: RE: BS: The nature of self declared liberals
From: GUEST,Terry McDonald
Date: 05 May 07 - 10:42 AM

Radicals and Conservatives make history, Liberals just write about it.......

Subject: RE: BS: The nature of self declared liberals
From: GUEST,Terry McDonald
Date: 05 May 07 - 11:13 AM

Just realised - 'Conservatives' should have read 'Tories.'

Subject: RE: BS: The nature of self declared liberals
From: Donuel
Date: 05 May 07 - 11:40 AM

Rog,
love me love me love me, I'm a liberal.


Best answer to the question what would you bring to a desert island?

while most Republican presidential candidates said they would bring their wife or a bible
Tancredo said "A boat."

Subject: RE: BS: The nature of self declared liberals
From: artbrooks
Date: 05 May 07 - 01:56 PM

The "quote" is supposedly a bit a patter that he used to introduce the song Love Me, I'm a Liberal.   The lyrics, while they are a bit dated now, can be found here, and it is done to the tune of Rosin the Bow.

Subject: RE: BS: The nature of self declared liberals
From: Peace
Date: 05 May 07 - 02:11 PM

"Whether you agree with it or not, Phil Ochs's quote was his definition of a liberal."

It was one of several definitions Phil used to define 'Liberal'. I met and spoke with him on more than a half dozen occasions, spent some time on a campaign trail with him, and I will say this, Rog: The way you're using it ain't the way he meant it. See 282RA's remark in post four. He pretty much nailed it with that.

Subject: RE: BS: The nature of self declared liberals
From: Peace
Date: 05 May 07 - 02:17 PM

Sorry, post six.

Subject: RE: BS: The nature of self declared liberals
From: Rog Peek
Date: 05 May 07 - 03:16 PM

Peace

If you notice, I neither 'used' it, gave an interpretation of it, nor did I express an opinion. I was hoping for the views of others and as you were aqainted with Phil Ochs, I am grateful for yours.

I have admired Phil Ochs and his work for 40 years, it certainly wasn't my intention to offend anyone.

Subject: RE: BS: The nature of self declared liberals
From: Peace
Date: 05 May 07 - 07:34 PM

Please don't feel that way. You gave no offense. It was me who misunderstood. I'm brusk on a good day. I will message you with some details either later today or tomorrow. My apologies if I have offended you, Rog.