BS: British Judges Out Of Touch With People

Subject: BS: BRITISH JUDGES OUT OF TOUCH WITH PEOPLE
From: GUEST,Bettie
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 06:20 AM

There have been a number of high profile cases recently were people who carried out the most vile crimes have walked free. I don´t need to tell those of you in Britain about the judge last Tuesday who let a man who raped a ten year old girl go free because he said "the underwear she wore excited him".

We watch daily as young thugs wreck our inner cities knowning they won´t face jail. We cannot blame the police, it´s the judges who are at fault.

I live in Liverpool, and believe me it´s bad here.

Subject: RE: BS: BRITISH JUDGES OUT OF TOUCH WITH PEOPLE
From: GUEST,arran
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 06:28 AM

so what's new

Subject: RE: BS: BRITISH JUDGES OUT OF TOUCH WITH PEOPLE
From: GUEST,PMB
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 06:56 AM

I blame Liverpudlians, and Mancunians, and Brummies, and Londoners, and the rest. It's British society that's sick, the values that WE pass on to our kids are maimed. Examine your own values, and see if you want everybody else thinking sod you.

In the case exemplified, the judge thought that the fact that the girl inviolved looked 16 and said she was 16 was a mitigating factor. The guy didn't ask for a birth certificate, and there was apparently full consent (in as far as a 10 year old can consent- but then many over 16 are dodgy in this respect), but sex with any person under 13 is automatically rape. Look at the facts before you go tabloid, because it's the tabloids that are pushing the crippled value system.

Subject: RE: BS: BRITISH JUDGES OUT OF TOUCH WITH PEOPLE
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 07:05 AM

Please don't shout.

Subject: RE: BS: BRITISH JUDGES OUT OF TOUCH WITH PEOPLE
From: bubblyrat
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 09:02 AM

Why do people always cite places like Liverpool when discussing declining standards of behaviour ?? I live in Henley-on-Thames, and believe me, it"s like the WILD WEST !!! Piss-artists roaming the streets at night , screaming,shouting ,and vomitting in doorways---Tramps begging in the streets---Dozens of Romanian " Big Issue " sellers all over the town centre at weekends--very high rates of burglary, car-theft,arson,vandalism, fighting, drug-dealing,criminal damage----dog-shit in every street and on every bit of green grass, including the Churchyard---Rubbish and litter everywhere----Absolutely NO policemen to be seen ANYWHERE ( the Henley staffing level has dropped from about 20 officers in the sixties to about 2 today, although I have never actually seen one , other than in a car--there ARE 2 "PCSO s " who are totally USELESS, of course)---Listed, historical buildings being left to rot ( "lack of funds " says the Town Hall )----road-surfaces in a DISGUSTING condition, rutted and

full of pot-holes---- ("Lack of funds" !)Blocked drains everywhere, leading to localised flooding in recent rains ( "Lack of funds" !!)---Terrible driving, with "boy racers" driving through narrow streets at 50-60 mph, but never any police about of course, and if you report it ( or ANY OTHER CRIME in Henley,) the police don"t actually DO anything about ( Do they ANYWHERE, I wonder ? )----And Henley has one of the worst Traffic Management Systems on the PLANET , with endless streams of 44 ton trucks passing over a stone bridge built in the 1700s, and then going down ancient narrow streets designed for horses and carts !! So , it"s not just the fault of the Judges,the Police, the Local Authority,it"s the stupid GOVERNMENT we have had for the last ten years, who are more Liberal than the Liberals, and far too WEAK to govern effectively.Until they are replaced ( hopefully by force of arms) there will be no rest, no respite from the spiralling descent into chaos and anarchy which, I am CONVINCED , is what the Labour Party wants , although I still can"t figure out WHY ???
    There !! I feel much better now ( but things in Henley really ARE bad, and getting worse ) .

Subject: RE: BS: BRITISH JUDGES OUT OF TOUCH WITH PEOPLE
From: Rapparee
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 09:23 AM

That's not at all like the Wild West, then or now. I know; I live there. Our streets are in pretty decent shape; police, fire, and ambulance come when called (and very quickly if it's an emergency); we have clean drinking water; traffic problems are quickly solved; beggars are dealt with humanely and directed to community shelters; public drunks aren't tolerated; large trucks are limited to certain streets or the highways, and in general it's a pretty peaceful place.

Sure, there are problems. We have fights, meth labs, dopers, shooters, stabbers, and even murderers. When they happen the police deal with them quite efficiently (and only rarely with lethal force), and the courts (if the person is found guilty) sentence appropriately.

So please stop comparing YOUR town to "The Wild West" or I'm going to start comparing LA to the UK.

Subject: RE: BS: BRITISH JUDGES OUT OF TOUCH WITH PEOPLE
From: Sorcha
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 09:35 AM

GO for it, Rap! (*BG*)

Subject: RE: BS: BRITISH JUDGES OUT OF TOUCH WITH PEOPLE
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 09:39 AM

I think England still has to sink even lower before there is a New York style re-birth.

Subject: RE: BS: BRITISH JUDGES OUT OF TOUCH WITH PEOPLE
From: Rapparee
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 09:49 AM

Boy, Sorch, I'm sure glad we live in the American West, in towns that are civil and civilized. Why, do you know that I haven't toted my .44s in just ages? And my sawed-off shotgun hasn't been used in so long I think the shells wouldn't even work!

I'm sure glad we live in The Wild West and not in some place like the UK, where they get all testy if they don't "have a man for breakfast." I understand that corpses just litter the streets and gunfights and stabbings are so common no one remarks on them anymore.

I was thinking of visiting there next year, but now I'm too afraid to do so.

Subject: RE: BS: British Judges Out Of Touch With People
From: katlaughing
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 10:44 AM

Well, hellll, yeah, we are so civilised in the West, we build monuments to prostitutes! Betcha never seen the like anywhere else!

More Wild West pix here...music on site comes on automatically.

Subject: RE: BS: British Judges Out Of Touch With People
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 10:53 AM

When judges comes up with what sounds like an odd verdict, the chances are they are acting in accordance with the law as it stands, including guidelines on sentences and so forth. And they also hear the whole case, including stuff the papers don't include.

I don't know if people want judges who say "bugger what the law says - I don't like the look of you, so you're going down for life". In fact that sometimes happens, though not in so many words, and there have been some horrifying injustices as a result.

When a judge has had a brainstorm and passed out a sentence which is too low there are provisions in British law for the prosecution to appeal against the sentence to get it jacked up.

Subject: RE: BS: British Judges Out Of Touch With People
From: heric
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 10:59 AM

I ¢¾ love ¢¾ LA

Subject: RE: BS: British Judges Out Of Touch With People
From: Rapparee
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 11:48 AM

Other than for the La Brea Tar Pits I can't imagine why....

Subject: RE: BS: British Judges Out Of Touch With People
From: Grab
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 12:06 PM

Betty, maybe you *do* need to tell us. I didn't see about that. And if PMB is correct, your "interpretation" of the facts is, shall we say, stretched a little to the right of reality?

Other stories in the news today:-

The judge said he may never be released as he presents a substantial danger to women
"The offences, I would say, are at the very top end to be taken in a prosecution of harassment and therefore have to be dealt with at the top end of my powers."
The judge at the High Court in Glasgow, Lord Carloway, said he had no option but to impose a custodial sentence.

Obviously we're not being kept safe, with all these criminals being imprisoned...

And it's funny. You so often hear people saying how it's the under-educated kids of today who are to blame for all the ills of society. It's not often that you hear someone say that it's the fault of the 50-something or 60-something ex-barristers. :-)

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: British Judges Out Of Touch With People
From: Captain Ginger
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 12:26 PM

McGrath is right - judges act within guidelines laid down for them.
I would suggest that the problem isn't the judges, it lies with people who expect the judges (and the police, and 'them' in general) to sort out society's problems. The sort of people who read and believe the Daily Mail and the Daily Express. The sort of people who think that writing in capitals lends weight to an argument.
The UK already locks up more of its population per capita than any European country save Turkey (hmm, flattering comparison, eh?). Yet we are being urged by the media and the shouters to put more people behind bars. Can someone tell me the logic in that?
Particularly when crime has actually fallen over the past decade.

Subject: RE: BS: British Judges Out Of Touch With People
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 12:33 PM

Surely, what we now call the "The Wild West" refers to a time long gone by! Jesse James, Wyatt Earp, and all that!

Subject: RE: BS: British Judges Out Of Touch With People
From: heric
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 12:37 PM

Greek Theatre. Malibu Creek State Park.

Subject: RE: BS: British Judges Out Of Touch With People
From: Becca72
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 01:04 PM

Misread thread title. I thought it read "British Judges Out To Touch People"

Subject: RE: BS: British Judges Out Of Touch With People
From: Rapparee
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 01:18 PM

Well, actually, Jesse and Frank James & Co. operated mostly in Missouri, Kansas, Iowa, Minnesota...not places usually considered as "The Wild West." Their targets were banks and trains, too -- not usually people.

Wyatt Earp and his brothers (known to many as "The Fighting Pimps") received a lot of their reputation from Stuart Lake, who wrote a HIGHLY colored account of Wyatt's life.

Some of the REALLY bad (and good) men of the Old West you've probably never heard of: Tom Horn, "Bear River" Tom Smith, Jack Slade, Clay Allison, Henry Plummer, Porter Rockwell. Probably the most dangerous man in the Old West was "Doc" Holliday -- since he was dying of tuberculous he didn't care. Others, like William Butler Hickok, were shootists but also the products of the novels of people like Ned Buntline. Fact and fiction get mixed up, and Hollywood and TV haven't helped.

Take Isom P. "Print" Olive, for example. Or his friend, James Kelly.

Around here, when the situation with the bad guys became intolerable, the Vigilantes (a/k/a Stranglers) were formed. They would try you (and yes, you were allowed someone to defend you) and find you not guilty, guilty but ordered to clear out and don't come back, guilty and flogged, or guilty and hung. Yes, they did NOT hang everyone, and usually they posted a warning first (which often worked). When the courts came the vigilantes disbanded.

Shucks, we haven't had a good shootout now since, oh, before breakfast I guess....

Subject: RE: BS: British Judges Out Of Touch With People
From: heric
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 01:22 PM

For a second I thought it read "British Judges Out To Touch Themselves ."

Subject: RE: BS: British Judges Out Of Touch With People
From: katlaughing
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 02:45 PM

guns were quite often turned into the marshall's office when one hit town, too...

Subject: RE: BS: British Judges Out Of Touch With People
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 03:14 PM

If the judges and the lawmakers were not out of touch, from time to time, with mass opinion, we would still have bearbaiting, capital punishment, illegal homosexuality, imprisonment for debt, transportation for theft of items over one shilling, transportation for poaching, execution for poaching deer, etc, etc.

Subject: RE: BS: British Judges Out Of Touch With People
From: Rapparee
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 03:27 PM

Oh no! You're not going to ship YOUR criminals off to North America anymore! Give 'em to Australia or someplace, but we don't want 'em.

Subject: RE: BS: British Judges Out Of Touch With People
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 04:56 PM

You're not going to ship YOUR criminals off to North America anymore! Maybe a exception for Tony Blair?

Subject: RE: BS: British Judges Out Of Touch With People
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 05:35 PM

I thought the north American continent already had some of the prize ones, from both here and Oz - Black, Bond, Murdoch....

Subject: RE: BS: British Judges Out Of Touch With People
From: Rapparee
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 06:18 PM

Forced upon us by Tony Blair! They were dropped onto our shores naked, wet, and hungry and we took them in. We offered them heat, food for their stomachs, dry shoes for their feet.

See how we are repaid? Not since the Campbells of Argyle massacred the McDonalds of Glencoe have a people been so misled by John Bull!

Would you like a Bush to go with Blair, so you have a matching set?

Subject: RE: BS: British Judges Out Of Touch With People
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 06:39 PM

No thanks, one is an intellectual giant in comparison with the other.

Subject: RE: BS: British Judges Out Of Touch With People
From: greg stephens
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 06:52 PM

Well actually the McDonalds were not averse to a little bit of mnassacring themselves NOT THAT IT'S GOT ANYTHIMG TOP DO WITH SHOUTING ABOUT BRITISH JUDGES

Subject: RE: BS: British Judges Out Of Touch With People
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 07:45 PM

"the McDonalds were not averse to a little bit of massacring themselves" - and that's still true today!

Subject: RE: BS: British Judges Out Of Touch With People
From: katlaughing
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 12:01 AM

We'll take Blair, to live a small and quite life in some podunk two-bit town IF you'll take the shrub!!

Subject: RE: BS: British Judges Out Of Touch With People
From: Rapparee
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 09:20 AM

...and all his kith, kine and kin with him.

Subject: RE: BS: British Judges Out Of Touch With People
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 08:21 PM

Judges out of touch? Take superannuatant lawyers, whose only business contacts are with other lawyers and criminals, and put them in power positions, having the last word.
Who do they mix with, socially? Victims? Working people? Witnesses confused by legal eagles? No chance.

Much the same here in NZ. They climb all over a punter who violently protects his/her family or property, and sentence career criminals to short terms that they don't have to serve fully.

There are too few front-line policemen, and too few recruits, and the ones that ARE serving have to be so very careful when dealing with abusive arseholes, who then get away with a warning.

Legal aid is given to people who, when found guilty, don't have to pay it back! This makes it a tax on taxpayers to help criminals to avoid their just desserts. Administrated by the legal system.

On a different theme from the above rant, if anyone thinks America is still the 'Wild West', read Neville Shute's 'Beyond the Black Stump.'


There, I feel SO much better.

Subject: RE: BS: British Judges Out Of Touch With People
From: GUEST,CrazyEddie
Date: 02 Jul 07 - 05:53 AM

Hey guest, when you say: "whose only business contacts are with other lawyers and criminals"
Dontcha mean: "whose only business contacts are with lawyers and other criminals"

Subject: RE: BS: British Judges Out Of Touch With People
From: Arnie
Date: 02 Jul 07 - 04:38 PM

The majority of British judges went to public school followed by Oxbridge - they all know each other from their schooldays and are a self-perpetuating bunch of aristos. Labour were supposed to democratise the legal profession in order to break up this quango, but it certainly hasn't worked so far!! Anyway, as the prisons are now full up and early release is the order of the day, I don't suppose it matters any more what length of sentence they pass!

Subject: RE: BS: British Judges Out Of Touch With People
From: Dickey
Date: 02 Jul 07 - 10:48 PM

British judges? Better say judges from all countries.

There is a Judge in the US suing some Korean Immigrant dry cleaners for $65,462,500 for loosing his pants. They even found his pants and offered him $12,000 for damages but he won't accept the settlement. He was actually crying in court over his pants.

Subject: RE: BS: British Judges Out Of Touch With People
From: Gurney
Date: 03 Jul 07 - 01:08 AM

CrazyEddie, Yes, I do. However, I'm not sure if a judge, who would be an ex-barrister, can practice law in another capacity.
I wouldn't think so, because of possible conflict of interest, but I don't know, so until this is established, both could be right.


My cookie had expired when I posted.
Or Joe was trying to tell me something.

Subject: RE: BS: British Judges Out Of Touch With People
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 03 Jul 07 - 01:43 PM

"So please stop comparing YOUR town to "The Wild West" or I'm going to start comparing LA to the UK."

The comparison with the "Wild West" is a valid one, Rapaire.

Devon and Cornwall can get purty rough at times.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: British Judges Out Of Touch With People
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 02:47 AM

True, they can.... one whiff of trouble and the Cornish shut down the Tamar Bridge, hide Miss Nancy under the table and start circling the Clotted Cream wagons.


LTS

Subject: RE: BS: British Judges Out Of Touch With People
From: Folkiedave
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 04:27 AM

Henley sounds horrendous!!

The next thing is you will be swamped with journalists once the SUN picks this up!!

Subject: RE: BS: British Judges Out Of Touch With People
From: Fiolar
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 08:53 AM

I think that there may well be a few cases where the death penalty should still apply as in the case the bastard from Leeds who raped and murdered his two year old niece. He's got life. It may be that he'll the justice he deserves inside.