 sj |
||
|
||
Salsa Celtica & Eliza
|
|
|
Subject: Salsa Celtica & Eliza From: Lizzie Cornish Date: 10 Jul 07 - 01:31 PM So...over on the BBC they're muttering about whether Eliza Carthy is underrated.... I think she's fab with Salsa Celtica and that she should branch out far more from some of the er somewhat downbeat songs she sings now and again..... SALSA CELTICA AND ELIZA AT CAMBRIDGE FESTIVAL 2006 |
|
Subject: RE: Salsa Celtica & Eliza From: katlaughing Date: 10 Jul 07 - 02:02 PM Well, she looks as though she's having fun which is good, but I didn't hear that she added anything to the music, really. Her movements seemed very stilted and awkward, but I've never seen her on video or live, so maybe that's just her? INteresting mix regardless. |
|
Subject: RE: Salsa Celtica & Eliza From: The Borchester Echo Date: 10 Jul 07 - 02:20 PM The question asked was whether Liza is OVER-rated, in a particularly nasty way, by suggesting that she is where she is only where she is because of her parents. To which the answer is a resounding NO. I can't imagine what that Salsa Celtica clip is supposed to show (other than everyone is having as good a time as is possible to have at Cambridge (i.e. not very). Far more to be recommended is seeing her with the Ratcatchers, with Martin Green or Chango Spasiuk. |
|
Subject: RE: Salsa Celtica & Eliza From: GUEST,countrylife Date: 10 Jul 07 - 03:17 PM Eliza like to have a bit of fun...unlike some folk (pun intended) |
|
Subject: RE: Salsa Celtica & Eliza From: greg stephens Date: 10 Jul 07 - 03:33 PM Eliza Carthgy is very good at radiating enjoyment for the music she is making, and so she should. If I could make as good music as her, I'd have a permanent smile on my face a yard wide. |
|
Subject: RE: Salsa Celtica & Eliza From: tijuanatime Date: 10 Jul 07 - 04:00 PM There's some excellent footage on youtube of her performance with Saul Rose at Shepley: I was there and my wife, who had neither heard nor heard of Eliza before became an instant fan. Nothing downbeat going on there. |
|
Subject: RE: Salsa Celtica & Eliza From: Lizzie Cornish Date: 10 Jul 07 - 04:05 PM Ay Up...She's being a bit brilliant again..as is Saul.. ELIZA AND SAUL AT SHEPLEY....as if by magic :0) Er...yes..OVERrated was the correct phrase....Only I could do that... HeeHee! |
|
Subject: RE: Salsa Celtica & Eliza From: The Borchester Echo Date: 10 Jul 07 - 04:09 PM I wrote earlier: Far more to be recommended is seeing her with the Ratcatchers, with Martin Green or Chango Spasiuk And yes, bugger it, I forgot to mention with Saul as well. I was especially incensed with the original complaint that Liza was 'over-rated' and relying on Martin'n'Norma's reputation. |
|
Subject: RE: Salsa Celtica & Eliza From: tijuanatime Date: 10 Jul 07 - 04:24 PM More Shepley stuff http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHGAC8E8YsI and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17FqGboh4-A If you still think she's over-rated after watching this, then we'll have to agree to differ |
|
Subject: RE: Salsa Celtica & Eliza From: The Borchester Echo Date: 10 Jul 07 - 04:31 PM Who is YOU? No-one here suggested that she was. It was a quote (or rather a misquote) from a different forum. |
|
Subject: RE: Salsa Celtica & Eliza From: tijuanatime Date: 10 Jul 07 - 04:42 PM remove 'you', substitute 'anyone' |
|
Subject: RE: Salsa Celtica & Eliza From: Uncle Boko Date: 10 Jul 07 - 04:45 PM Over at BBC they would argue that Dulce de Leche is not sweet! |
|
Subject: RE: Salsa Celtica & Eliza From: Barry Finn Date: 10 Jul 07 - 05:00 PM She far from over-rated IMHO. In fact I'd have to say she's inherited the better of both in the genes dept. As a singer she's a fine example of the saying that the sum of both is better than the parts & as a musician she's got the talent, finesse & feeling equal to only a very few. I saw her recently in Boston (as well as before) & she's really in her own element playing with her family she's not just part of the family, she doesn't ride on anyone's name, that was plain to see. From the clips though I'd say that as a dancer, playing Latino mixed music she didn't get a bit of the rub off, "almost like white girls can't dance", but that's alright she's a Brit & grew up a folkie not a salsa dancer from the Southern Islands. I'll say that the music does move her though as well as those dancing under the tent. Would've loved to have been there. Thanks for all the clips. Barry |
|
Subject: RE: Salsa Celtica & Eliza From: Lizzie Cornish Date: 10 Jul 07 - 05:05 PM I LIKE Eliza...just need to make that clear.. Here's the original thread and title from the BBC... IS ELIZA CARTHY OVERRATED OR WHAT? (from the BBC board) Eliza's Myspace |
|
Subject: RE: Salsa Celtica & Eliza From: Lizzie Cornish Date: 10 Jul 07 - 05:08 PM And here is Eliza's Mum doing her Grateful Dead number.... :0) Sock it to 'em Norma! ;0) Norma Waterson singing Black Muddy River - on Youtube (fantastic!) Lizzie :0) |
|
Subject: RE: Salsa Celtica & Eliza From: Folkiedave Date: 10 Jul 07 - 05:19 PM The original poster to that thread failed to point out that the show she did at Wychwood Festival was in fact a collaboration with Ed Harcourt. She did a collaboration with Salsa Celtica the previous year. What Cambridge did one day Wychwood did 2 months earlier. And the previous year to that - she did a collaboration with a Swedish group whose name escapes me at the moment. Just for information you understand. |
|
Subject: RE: Salsa Celtica & Eliza From: The Borchester Echo Date: 10 Jul 07 - 05:21 PM Värtinnä, They're Finnish. |
|
Subject: RE: Salsa Celtica & Eliza From: Folkiedave Date: 10 Jul 07 - 06:39 PM Thanks Diane. |
|
Subject: RE: Salsa Celtica & Eliza From: Dave Hanson Date: 11 Jul 07 - 04:00 AM Since anyone who ever wrote anything interesting on the BBC Radio 2 folk and acoustic message board has been banned, it's probably the most useless message board in internet history. eric |
|
Subject: RE: Salsa Celtica & Eliza From: GUEST,buspassed Date: 11 Jul 07 - 04:30 AM Hope you're not including me in that sweeping statement Ginger! I can be very erudiite, even the Vicar understands what I'm talking about! [Galton & Simpson- Hancock's Half Hour] Episode? Anybody? |
|
Subject: RE: Salsa Celtica & Eliza From: Lizzie Cornish Date: 11 Jul 07 - 05:25 AM >>Since anyone who ever wrote anything interesting on the BBC Radio 2 folk and acoustic message board has been banned, it's probably the most useless message board in internet history.<< Ah yes Dave, but...it's a nice 'safe' 'quiet' and 'beige' board now... :0) Anyways...getting back to Eliza...here she is with her Ratcatchers.. KAPOW!! The Ratcatchers who caught Eliza.... |
|
Subject: RE: Salsa Celtica & Eliza From: Lizzie Cornish Date: 11 Jul 07 - 05:40 AM Hey LOOK! Eliza doing a Show of Hands number!! Wonders will never cease! :0) ELIZA singing COUNTRY LIFE Altogether now.... "Working in the rain cutting up wood Never did my little brother much good Lost two fingers in a chainsaw bite All he does now is drink and fight......" (taken from Country Life by Steve Knightley) Pssssst.... ;0) |
|
Subject: RE: Salsa Celtica & Eliza From: Catherine Jayne Date: 11 Jul 07 - 06:24 AM I saw Eliza live at Towersey last year and she was fantastic as always! She's a great ambassador for Folk music |
|
Subject: RE: Salsa Celtica & Eliza From: GUEST,buspassed Date: 11 Jul 07 - 08:27 AM LC do you really think that the song Eliza is singing is SOH's 'Country Life'? Just shake your head a bit and LISTEN, it's the 'Country Life' from the Waterson's songbook. Very interesting intro, reminds me of the old SA township whistle [kwela? Tom Hark?]music rhythms. |
|
Subject: RE: Salsa Celtica & Eliza From: Folkiedave Date: 11 Jul 07 - 08:47 AM Hey LOOK! Eliza doing a Show of Hands number!! Wonders will never cease! :0) ELIZA singing COUNTRY LIFE When she said "Hey Look" she meant you not her. Lizzie it is not like you to get things wrong like that. Are you in Canada yet? |
|
Subject: RE: Salsa Celtica & Eliza From: Lizzie Cornish Date: 11 Jul 07 - 08:50 AM >>LC do you really think that the song Eliza is singing is SOH's 'Country Life'?<<< Oh yes indeedy!! :0) EVERYONE'S singing Show of Hands songs these days you know..there's an epidemic..isn't it wonderful! :0) Hey, put your bus pass down for a sec and click on the 'Psssst!' link above...then tell me what you see.... |
|
Subject: RE: Salsa Celtica & Eliza From: Lizzie Cornish Date: 11 Jul 07 - 08:51 AM Oh..and I've a wicked sense of humour btw... ;0)< |
|
Subject: RE: Salsa Celtica & Eliza From: Folkiedave Date: 11 Jul 07 - 11:35 AM So are you in Canada with your wicked sense of humour? |
|
Subject: RE: Salsa Celtica & Eliza From: The Borchester Echo Date: 11 Jul 07 - 02:33 PM Alas, no. madlizziecornish is back from Canada-pretendy-land, home of equally pretendy Sam the Paramour, littering the place with smiley-ridden graffitti. I know a long list of artists who would do a great deal not to come within the sights of madlizziecornish, the demented Sidmouth-via-Pinner seagull, and have their links posted as part of her trolling campaign of idiocy. Not a scrap of notice does she take when, time after time, she's pleaded with to stop, many a time by those very arists whose career she's dragging through the mire. And now she's back, sinking to previously unimagined depths of inanity, hellbent now on destroying Amnesty. Canada, don't you have a drifting ice-floe to dump her on? Permanently? |
|
Subject: RE: Salsa Celtica & Eliza From: GUEST,countrylife Date: 11 Jul 07 - 02:49 PM heck if it's not happening in one place it's happening in another...Is the title of this thread not Salsa Celtica & Eliza? I'm just trying to be clear on the matter. and hope that there is at least some intelligent contribution. I've watched the video and it's quite good. I always thought that experimentation was good for music, no matter what the genre |
|
Subject: RE: Salsa Celtica & Eliza From: Folkiedave Date: 11 Jul 07 - 02:51 PM She's not in Canada? Oh hell - will she see me at Sidmouth? |
|
Subject: RE: Salsa Celtica & Eliza From: Barry Finn Date: 11 Jul 07 - 03:04 PM My sisters-in law from Cuba & San Francisco came by last night & listened to the clip posted by Lizzy (thanks Liz) & they had no idea who Eliza was nor her family for that matter but they wanted to buy a CD of what they were hearing. They're tired of hearing jigs & reels & such but when mixed with in with a latin flavor they were in heaven. Had nothing to do with politics even though they're both exiles in one way or another. Barry |
|
Subject: RE: Salsa Celtica & Eliza From: The Borchester Echo Date: 11 Jul 07 - 03:04 PM Not if you stick only to safe Routes. |
|
Subject: RE: Salsa Celtica & Eliza From: countrylife Date: 11 Jul 07 - 03:12 PM Folk Roots, New Routes |
|
Subject: RE: Salsa Celtica & Eliza From: Lizzie Cornish Date: 12 Jul 07 - 02:56 PM Here you go then Barry, you may like this video too. :0) SALSA CELTICA - A short documentary There's loads of other clips of them too on that page....and having seen them myself I can thoroughly recommend them. They are SO exciting! Here's a few words on them....not a clue who wrote them though! ;0) RED HOT SALSA - AYE CARAMBA! And I have the El Camino CD which is great! Their myspace page Salsa Celtica Main Site Lizzie :0) |
|
Subject: RE: Salsa Celtica & Eliza From: Folkiedave Date: 12 Jul 07 - 03:05 PM There you are Barry a route to all the information you wanted. |
|
Subject: RE: Salsa Celtica & Eliza From: Barry Finn Date: 12 Jul 07 - 11:52 PM Thank you all BTW, I've been a Waterson fan for decades, I've never heard one I didn't love to see or listen to. Barry |
|
Subject: RE: Salsa Celtica & Eliza From: Pete_Standing Date: 13 Jul 07 - 11:21 AM El martillo gris es una canción a la cual Eliza hace la justicia cuando ella la hace unaccompanied. Está ninguna la interpretación con Salsa Celtica donde cerca de ella. Cuando los nobles tales como la opinión de Swarbrick y de Martin Carthy usted no pueden lastimar la canción a menos que usted no la haga, no soy tan seguro. |
|
Subject: RE: Salsa Celtica & Eliza From: GUEST,Guest Mike Rogers Date: 13 Jul 07 - 12:56 PM What a ridiculous thread! One person on the Beeb made a side and spiteful comment about Eliza. Virtually every other poster disgreed with the assertion and supported Eliza. The OP here is merely another pathetic attempt to show the Beeb board in a bad light - a board from which she has been banned. Thank God. |
|
Subject: RE: Salsa Celtica & Eliza From: GUEST,Eleanor Roosevelt's knickers Date: 14 Jul 07 - 10:47 AM I'm a huge fan of Eliza - but I think she got her initial breaks because of who she is. |
|
Subject: RE: Salsa Celtica & Eliza From: GUEST,Bill Clinton's jockstrap Date: 14 Jul 07 - 12:13 PM One of Lizzie Cornish's alter egos seems to be suffering from twisted knicker syndrome. |
|
Subject: RE: Salsa Celtica & Eliza From: The Borchester Echo Date: 14 Jul 07 - 12:36 PM Well, of course Liza 'got her breaks' because of who she is, not with anyone else's help, nor, as you are attempting nastily to imply, because of which family she belongs to. She was out on the road almost a decade and a half ago with Nancy Kerr (now why don't you have a dig at HER and say she's got where she is because of HER parents?) . Oh, I forgot, you don't know who they are. Before that (even before Liza decided that she would after all make music her career), she would perform from time to time with the family or spend literally all day playing in festival sessions. AND she has played for years for the local longsword side, the Plough Stots. Yeah, a typical overnight manufactured success. No talent. Just her name to trade on. Eliza Carthy the fraud. Pah! More like madlizzie the pariah. |
|
Subject: RE: Salsa Celtica & Eliza From: Lizzie Cornish Date: 14 Jul 07 - 12:38 PM >>>Pah! More like madlizzie the pariah Oh do stop it Diane... |
|
Subject: RE: Salsa Celtica & Eliza From: The Borchester Echo Date: 14 Jul 07 - 12:50 PM Stop it? Well, I'd be able to if madlizzie would engage brain before placing fingers on keyboard. Fat chance. So I won't till she desists, one way or another, from damaging people I know and like and admire. |
|
Subject: RE: Salsa Celtica & Eliza From: Lizzie Cornish Date: 14 Jul 07 - 01:02 PM In what way have I damaged Eliza Diane? Those 'Guests' aren't me I'm afraid...get Joe to check for you... |
|
Subject: RE: Salsa Celtica & Eliza From: Ruth Archer Date: 14 Jul 07 - 01:11 PM Eliza is, imho, one of - if not the - greatest talents working in contemporary English folk. She has, during her career, pushed barriers, taken risks, formed innovative collaborations, and made some of the most inspiring music in this genre. Not every experiment has been an unqualified success, but hey - the point is, she has taken risks, which has helped to make her such an interesting artist. Look at the girl performing live, for god's sake. The music is IN her. It runs through her blood. She brings to it an intense joy and passion, and I never come away from one of her performances anything short of elated. Who the hell cares why she got her earliest breaks? If she couldn't cut it, her career would have died a death. Instead, she's risen to ever more interesting musical heights. As Diane and others have mentioned, you'l see her as a stalwart of festival sessions, as well as playing for the Plough Stots or for Bampton morris. This is because her love and respect for the music and the tradition are so strong. Eliza has paid her dues. She is where she is because she's a fantastic talent and incredibly dedicated to doing what she does. BTW: regarding the OP's assessment of her "er, somewhat downbeat" songs, they are a small part of what she does. The OP should really acquaint themselves with the ful range of Eliza's diverse and often buoyant repertoire before casting inaccurate apersions. |
|
Subject: RE: Salsa Celtica & Eliza From: Lizzie Cornish Date: 14 Jul 07 - 01:20 PM The OP, that is me...has praised Eliza Carthy over and over on the BBC board you know. I'd suggest you track them back 'Ruth' I can still recall her singing 'Colours' at Sidmouth 2004 which was in the Channel 4 programme...and how I raved about that song and that voice! However, to me she does sing some downbeat, dreary songs at time, which I feel does not put her voice in the best light. She has a sensational voice when she picks the right song... Purely my opinion though, to which I am perfectly entitled. Thanks Lizzie |
|
Subject: RE: Salsa Celtica & Eliza From: Ruth Archer Date: 14 Jul 07 - 01:32 PM I think you mean "Colourblind", the Irving Berlin song. I've seen it many times myself. I'm entitled to my opinion too, Lizzie, which is that saying "she should branch out far more from the downbeat, dreary songs" does not fully acknowledge the huge range of her work. The ballads she sings form the minority of her repertoire, and given her "branching out" over the years (some of us were listening to her before 2004, as it happens) with bands like Kings of Calicutt or with CDs like Angels and Cigarettes, I think the last thing anyone could accuse Eliza of is being too "doenbeat and dreary". Maybe you ought to listen to the full range of her work before forming a judgement. It doesn't sound to me as though you have. |
|
Subject: RE: Salsa Celtica & Eliza From: Lizzie Cornish Date: 14 Jul 07 - 01:48 PM Ruth, could we just stop the constant 'getting at me' that goes on with you and Diane. I'd suggest you tell Diane exactly the same thing about listening to the full range of someone's work before forming a judgement, as she formed a fairly appalling judgement of Banda Celtamericana in another thread, after admitting to listening to just a short snippet of them on Youtube. Tell me though, do you know my CD collection then Ruth? Do you know what songs of Eliza's I know and don't know? What CDs I have and don't have? Yup Colourblind was the song and yup I got the title a bit wrong, but there you go, that's my brain. She sings it wonderfully. In fact I remember saying on the BBC that she should do an 'Eliza Goes To Hollywood' CD of some of the great show songs, after I'd seen her sing that so beautifully. You missed out the first part of what I said though...not sure why... >>>I think she's fab with Salsa Celtica...<<< ...and she is... >>>and that she should branch out far more from some of the er somewhat downbeat songs she sings now and again.....<<< Yes, I at least, think she should...because when she's dreary she can be very dreary, but when she's great she's fabulous! However, if she wants to sing dreary songs, that's entirely up to her. I'm just saying I think it's a waste of a wonderful voice. Nothing more, nothing less. |
|
Subject: RE: Salsa Celtica & Eliza From: Ruth Archer Date: 14 Jul 07 - 01:57 PM *Sigh* Lizzie, you made a statement that I felt misrepresented the artist in question. If I disagree with you, I'm allowed to say so. You don't get to say whatever you like without being challenged. I didn't make any sort of personal judgement or comment about you, so the idea that I'm "getting at you" is ridiculous. You simply don't like any of your strongly-held opinions challenged. The statement you made at the beginning of this thread was, I felt, a misjudgement of Eliza's repertoire. She doesn't need your (rather patronising) advice to "branch out". As I tried to state in a completely impersonal way, Eliza's whole career has been about branching out and trying new things. She's one of the most innovative artists on the folk scene. To be apparently ignorant of this fact (I don't know what CDs you have, so can only judge by the statements you make here), but to nevertheless make sweeping comments about her work, is both rude and misrepresentative of what she does. |
|
Subject: RE: Salsa Celtica & Eliza From: The Borchester Echo Date: 14 Jul 07 - 02:03 PM downbeat, dreary songs I'd have thought the OP would be well-acquainted with this sort of output given that her 'fave dishevelled duo' specialise in them. Colorblind is quite downbeat. Angels & Fags generally upbeat, Rough Music both, the Liza'n'Nancy and Liza'n'Martin Green work sizzling. Nothing I've ever heard her do (and this is over close on 20 years, all told) has ever been dull. I've seen her working also with Billy Bragg, Chango Spasiuk, Kings of Calicutt, Värttinä, The Chipolatas, Joan Baez and a kazillion people I can't be arsed to list at the South Bank. Good grief, she's even sat near me in sessions, but then a lot of people can say she's joined in with them. Can you? Liza's generous and sharing with her music and a totally lovely person. What she doesn't need is 'advice' on vocal choices from someone who's seen her once on the telly. |
|
Subject: RE: Salsa Celtica & Eliza From: GUEST,Eleanor Roosevelt's Knickers Date: 14 Jul 07 - 02:04 PM Would Nancy Kerr's parents be Ron Elliott and Sandra (voice of Bagpuss)Kerr, by any chance? I've got Nancy and Eliza's CD. Yese, I think the name Kerr might have helped Nancy to get a foot on the ladder. |
|
Subject: RE: Salsa Celtica & Eliza From: Lizzie Cornish Date: 14 Jul 07 - 02:07 PM I wasn't making 'sweeping comments'...just merely said she sings some dreary songs now and again that's all.... If you look back on this thread Ruth, you'll find loads of links from er...me...to Eliza's music. And you'll find comments from me to say that I LIKE a lot of her music. I'm not ignorant of where Eliza is in the folk world m'dear...much as you'd like to think I am. Got her on our festival page and her Mum on my page too. I LOVE the new things she's doing with Salsa Celtica..er...hence this thread... But there you go....as always, you and Diane know ALL and I apparently know ZILCH... Same old, same old...yawn.... Lizzie |
|
Subject: RE: Salsa Celtica & Eliza From: Lizzie Cornish Date: 14 Jul 07 - 02:10 PM Gosh...Eleanor Roosevelt's Knickers are doing well tonight....I wonder if you can buy them in M&S these days..I have a pair myself and very good they are too! ;0)
-Joe Offer- |
|
Subject: RE: Salsa Celtica & Eliza From: The Borchester Echo Date: 14 Jul 07 - 02:15 PM a fairly appalling judgement of Banda Celtamericana This may not be the most appropriate thread to say this in but since you are incapable of reading what I wrote there, I must reiterate here. I have made no judgment on the band you mention since I have not yet seen them (as I believe YOU have not seen Ms Carthy). It is an entirely different matter to assert that a band of whatever provenance has at the heart of its repertoire music based on and rooted in the culture from which it emanates. Banda Americana assures me that this is what they do and that they include only a couple of tunes of Irish origin and that these are NOT the green-Guinness-tinged Celtic horrors you were hoping for. I'm sure Liza will thank you greatly for 'allowing' her to do dreary songs if she wants to. How patronising . . . and insulting. I'll pass your message on.
-Joe Offer- |
|
Subject: RE: Salsa Celtica & Eliza From: Lizzie Cornish Date: 14 Jul 07 - 02:42 PM Heck Joe...I AM posting under one name...Lizzie Cornish...there is not ONE single post in this thread that is from me, other than those with my name on it...Please check on the computery bits and bobs that you have.... That statement of yours about me is wrong....I've not a clue whether Diane posts under other names and neither do I care..However, I am fair fed up with her continual personal abuse...none of which I respond to in the same way I might add!! SHEESH!! And please look carefully at who starts the cattiness off in the first place! IF you're referring to 'Guest Eleanor Roosevelt's Knickers'..(sigh)...that'll be someone from the BBC board who's having a little joke, as I used to quote Eleanor's words a lot on the BBC board, those being.. "No One Can Make You Feel Inferior Without Your Consent" ....and I always used to say that I had my Eleanor Roosevelt Knickers on, to protect me from the words of the Moaning Minnies..that's what that's about, not a clue who it is though..neither do I care. Yup seen Eliza at Sidmouth Diane. ...and more than a few times on the TV too and got her on CDs and...and..and... Sorry about that... |
|
Subject: RE: Salsa Celtica & Eliza From: The Borchester Echo Date: 14 Jul 07 - 02:47 PM I apologise for becoming Bill Clinton's Jockstrap for one post. People with any sense will be aware that it was done as a counter to Ms Roosevelt's Knickers just to emphasise that the OP does this sort of stuff ALL THE TIME. And denies it. That and claiming to 'know' me in real life. She does not. |
|
Subject: RE: Salsa Celtica & Eliza From: Lizzie Cornish Date: 14 Jul 07 - 02:51 PM Oh for Gawd's sake!!! Get off my back Diane! |
|
Subject: RE: Salsa Celtica & Eliza From: The Borchester Echo Date: 14 Jul 07 - 03:00 PM Mrs Route/Ms Cornish/Ms Roosevelt or whatever you're calling yourself: You get off the backs of all the artists you are upsetting and damaging. Today, especially, stay clear of Eliza Carthy. How dare you insult her in this way? I mean it. I shall make sure that she hears of this. |
| Share Thread: |
