BS: the Beckhams are in America, HOORAY!

Subject: RE: BS: the Beckhams are in America, HOORAY!
From: autolycus
Date: 15 Jul 07 - 04:19 AM

SOCCER

It's called soccer here in the UK by literate people who know the word is derived from AsSOCiation Football, yes AsSOCiation, to distinguish it from Rugby Football.

'Soccer' was in the Concise Oxford English Dictionary before the 1970s, described as colloquial.

Ignorant Brits say 'soccer' is only employed in the US.





The fact that people like the Beckhams are rich and famous tells us an enormous amount about our society and its, for want of a better word, values.






       Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: the Beckhams are in America, HOORAY!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Jul 07 - 07:05 AM

"The fact that people like the Beckhams are rich and famous tells us an enormous amount about our society and its, for want of a better word, values."

Expound further, it doesn't tell me much. he was a successful football player; she was in one of the most popular groups in the history of pop music. You would hardly expect them to be broke.

my Latin teacher used to tell me that the word 'soccer ' came from the Latin. But he was a violent man, who wiggled his ears - so we didn't enquire further.

Subject: RE: BS: the Beckhams are in America, HOORAY!
From: alanabit
Date: 15 Jul 07 - 07:07 AM

It means they are perceived to be very good at something. I, personally, would say that only one of them is. However, I do not recall many complaining letters to Mudcat about the fortunes amassed by Conrad Black, Robert Maxwell, Jonathon Aitken, Duncan Sands and other more anonymous contemporaries of their ilk. That tells me a lot more about our society and its "values". For some reason, it seems less respectable for one of the oiks to amass a fortune.

Subject: RE: BS: the Beckhams are in America, HOORAY!
From: GUEST,Casper
Date: 15 Jul 07 - 07:15 AM

In an interview on American tv Victoria was asked, "Is your little boy stringing sentences together now?"
"Yeah, a little bit here and there."
"And what about Brooklyn?"

Subject: RE: BS: the Beckhams are in America, HOORAY!
From: GUEST,wordy
Date: 15 Jul 07 - 07:45 PM

They represent all that is vacuous and debilitating about celebrity culture. Because of them thousands of youngsters are growing up thinking all you have to be is pretty (female) a sportsman(male) and the world is your oyster. So why bother with education? It's for nerds and failures.
"Give me money, that's what I want".
As to a culture, judge it by its heroes and heroines.And the people who buy the mags and papers with the vacuous pair on the cover.

Subject: RE: BS: the Beckhams are in America, HOORAY!
From: alanabit
Date: 15 Jul 07 - 08:08 PM

I can understand people disliking football. I can live with those, who do not like celebrity culture (although it has been with us as long as mass media have existed). However, before you can convince me that David Beckham got paid for doing nothing, you will have to convince me that his achievements were a fluke. Had it happened only once or twice, I could give credence to that argument. However, you are going to have your work cut out to convince me that you could have done this.

Subject: RE: BS: the Beckhams are in America, HOORAY!
From: John O'L
Date: 15 Jul 07 - 08:27 PM

If the Beckhams aren't fair game who is? The McCartneys? The Hiltons? Do we have to be nice to everyone who jumps up screaming "Look At Me!"?

Subject: RE: BS: the Beckhams are in America, HOORAY!
From: alanabit
Date: 16 Jul 07 - 03:29 AM

Let me put it another way. Do we have to be spiteful and contemptuous towards people, who have more loot or fame than ourselves? It seems to be what you are advocating.

Subject: RE: BS: the Beckhams are in America, HOORAY!
From: John O'L
Date: 16 Jul 07 - 04:15 AM

The loot doesn't concern me in the least, but I must confess to a degree of annoyance at the fame and the way it is misused. As has been noted earlier, they court attention. This is what they want. Their other careers being over, there is only limited time now for them to screw a few more million out of their public images. For goodness sake, the Spice Girls are getting back together "so their kids can see what it was that they did". Should that really be left to go through without comment? We here on this thread (all of us) are playing their game by their rules. This is what they do now.

Subject: RE: BS: the Beckhams are in America, HOORAY!
From: Stu
Date: 16 Jul 07 - 05:07 AM

"When it came to football Beckham was what is sometimes called a "one trick pony" - great at free kicks and long passes, not much cop at anything else"

Seeing as that was his main role in the team, and the one he most enjoys - so what?

Beckham might not be able to match some of the mighty intellects that are displayed here on the Cat, but the's the best crosser of the ball and taker of free kicks in the world. He has an incredible ability to judge distance, read a game and anticipate the actions of his teammates, and then deliver the ball to them in a manner that is both accurate for the strikers and panics defenders.

His ability to inspire a team by his mere presence was demonstrated last time he played for England, and who can forget the world cup qualifier against Greece at Old Trafford when he single-handedly kept England in the game and then scored of the free-kick in extra-time - arguably one of the best and most crucial goals ever scored during an England game. His workrate might have declined with age, but he's a long way from being past it.

Shame he went to America, where he'll earn pots of wedge but is essentially wasted. He should have gone to the Villa.

Subject: RE: BS: the Beckhams are in America, HOORAY!
From: alanabit
Date: 16 Jul 07 - 05:47 AM

People also forget that when Michael Owen scored his incredible goal against Argentina in 1998, the pass came from David Beckham. If you watch that goal carefully, you will see Beckham curled it around a defender, putting it so perfectly into Owen's stride that he had a yard start on his defender. One trick pony? I don't think so.
I actually could not give a dog's bollocks about the Spice Girls. I was quite happy to ignore them the first time. They are not doing me any harm though, so I can equally happily ignore them this time around. They are in the entertainment business and courting fame is an essential part of their job.
As it happens, I don't like dancing. Had Nureyev danced on my back garden, I would probably have drawn the curtains. I don't resent his fame for a minute though. I save my resentment for the cruel, the rude and the devious.

Subject: RE: BS: the Beckhams are in America, HOORAY!
From: alanabit
Date: 16 Jul 07 - 06:09 AM

To clarify my previous post I mean the likes of the Aitkens, Archers, Blacks and Maxwells of this world. No disrespect was intended to anyone who holds different views from me.
Here is what I was talking about in my first paragraph. Can Beckham set England moving?

Subject: RE: BS: the Beckhams are in America, HOORAY!
From: John O'L
Date: 16 Jul 07 - 06:17 AM

I have no interest in English football or the Spice Girls. I don't read tabloids or watch news on commercial television, yet I know this family intimately. I know the accents, the speech patterns, I know the fashion lapses, the hairdos and colours, I even know the kid. I have no interest in these people at all. All I know about them has been hammered into me by advertisements. Possibly I am out of order, and possibly I am attacking the wrong party, but I resent being treated that way, and they are the ones in the spotlight. (It is probably worth noting here that I am not familiar with any of the football achievements listed above.)

Subject: RE: BS: the Beckhams are in America, HOORAY!
From: GUEST,patty o'dawes
Date: 16 Jul 07 - 06:33 AM

Ah come now people. The Beckhams are a young family and doing ok at that and we feel the need to berate their every move? It's a sunny day here and they haven't killed anyone and we should be above the cheap tabloid pot shot taking.

Ok so he erred on the side of 'morality' once - considering the temptation he has that's not a stoning sin in my book.

According to their respective families as they grew up as kids, he was always training on the footie field and she spent a lot of her time in singing/dancing classes. No drugs, no alcohol, no underage pregnancies, no petty criminal records, no hanging around on street corners making a nuisance of themselves - not that bad as role models are they?

Now they have kids of their own, are great parents and fully supported by close knit families. No hanging the kids out of first floor windows a la Whacko Jacko style, no draping them in aunty Maud's curtains and no over used nannies.

I'd rather my kids have their posters on their walls than some coke snorting minor celeb who gets in the gutter press for throwing the occasional punch as they fall out of a club at three in the morning charlied up to the nines.

Oh but I feel so affronted - they are on my tv screen, then turn it off, quit the whining and do something else.

They are doing no harm, if some say they make kids aspire to unrealistic goals of stardom instead of the more tried and tested academic paths - then ask yourself why your child has grown up like that. Like all teen idols they are here and now. People place too much importance on them, and unless you are from the generation that still has teen idols, you ain't never got get it.

Subject: RE: BS: the Beckhams are in America, HOORAY!
From: kendall
Date: 16 Jul 07 - 07:27 AM

Just for the record, I don't have anything against any sports figure. It's just that I have a problem with a system in which people who are paid millions to engage in some silly ball kicking thing while teachers have to go on strike to get a living wage. Where the hell are our priorities?
Celebrity worship baffles me. Most of them are totally screwed up, Paris Hilton,Anna N. Smith for instance. What kind of example are they setting? How about O.J? is he still looking for the "real killer" on every golf course in America?

You have probably guessed that I am a long time fan of Andy Rooney.

Subject: RE: BS: the Beckhams are in America, HOORAY!
From: alanabit
Date: 16 Jul 07 - 07:55 AM

Actually John and Kendall, if you are telling me that the media has its priorities screwed, I am in full agreement with you. I suppose the most galling part of the media coverage is that they constantly pitch to the lowest common denominator of human interest. That is the really unsavoury aspect of this celebrity culture.

Subject: RE: BS: the Beckhams are in America, HOORAY!
From: GUEST,patty o'dawes
Date: 16 Jul 07 - 09:35 AM

Kendall I agree - celebrity worship baffles me too. But it didn't when I was twelve years old. The age I would imafine of the ajority of the Beckhams' fans.

The examples of 'celebs' you quote are or have been all involved in skirmishes with the law ( altho in OJ'S case perhaps that is a gross understatement) or/and drug taking. You are right, not a good example. Like I said the Beckhams' may live a shallow existence in some of our eyes, but they manage to do so without hurting anyone or themselves.

And the how much is a footballer worth when compared to a teacher is a no win argument. The value that is put on people or commodities does not and never has followed a 'worthy' code.

A Picasso may sell for the price of a third world country's debt. A racing driver may earn more in promo deals in a year than a doctor will earn in a lifetime. The accrued royalties of Dark Side of The Moon could build twenty hospitals and the same number of schools and still be a small fortune. Monetary value is what someone is willing to pay for an item and since currency began has always been so.

Subject: RE: BS: the Beckhams are in America, HOORAY!
From: greg stephens
Date: 16 Jul 07 - 09:40 AM

Alanabit: come on, don't be a spoilsport If we are not be allowed to take the piss out of Posh'n'Becks, what pleasures are left in life?

Subject: RE: BS: the Beckhams are in America, HOORAY!
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 16 Jul 07 - 09:51 AM

The media has ALWAYS courted heroes - and popular culture has ALWAYS made legends out of people who deserve to be forgotten.   When we sing songs about Jesse James or Pretty Boy Floyd or any of the hundreds of murder ballads that came out of Europe - who are we glorifying and why????   

What harm is it to watch the Beckhams do their thing? Seeing them on TV is going to make children run out and get tatoos and boob jobs about as much as singing "Tom Dooley" will cause someone to commit murder.

This is modern folklore, like it or not. From what I gather, the Beckhams failed to rob a bank, overdose on heroin, or murder innocent children.   The stuff legends are made of.

Subject: RE: BS: the Beckhams are in America, HOORAY!
From: alanabit
Date: 16 Jul 07 - 09:53 AM

I don't mind taking the piss out of them a bit Greg. Did you see what Ali G did on Comic Relief? It's just the bitterness and anger at two harmless people, which bewilders me.

Subject: RE: BS: the Beckhams are in America, HOORAY!
From: Stu
Date: 16 Jul 07 - 11:50 AM

"This is modern folklore, like it or not. From what I gather, the Beckhams failed to rob a bank, overdose on heroin, or murder innocent children.   The stuff legends are made of."

But that free kick against Greece is the stuff legends are made of. He'll go down as one of the all-time greats.

Subject: RE: BS: the Beckhams are in America, HOORAY!
From: autolycus
Date: 16 Jul 07 - 02:33 PM

No, no, alanabit, we're not bitter and angry at them at all. The target is our whole society for the misconceived value-system.

Of course there is unlikely that there's goibg to be much connection between the value to us all of the job, and the pay (tho' some of us say,'Well, why on earth not?').

One trouble tho' is that it's people who are rich who are a group whose opinions are valued !!!! (when you've perhaps already established the lack of connection between worth and pay.

Another trouble is that loads of people (not just The Beckhams) being paid ridiculous amounts actually, if you think harf about it, has inevitable, anmd often painful consequences for the rest of us.

e.g. the prices at the top rise, which pulls up the prices at the next level, which pulls up the etc. etc. etc. , all the way down.

is there really nothing wrong with some having 3, 4, 5 houses, 10, 15, 30, 100 million, both with the world being in the state it's in?

The rich are NOT isolated from the rest of us; their situation affects EVERYBODY.






       Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: the Beckhams are in America, HOORAY!
From: alanabit
Date: 16 Jul 07 - 06:05 PM

Autolycus, I actually share your disdain for unfair distribution of wealth and privelege. Celebrity culture may be an annoying symptom of that, but at the end of the day, it is a pretty insubstantial part of the whole. One of the points I was trying to make earlier, is that although entertainers may receive a lot of attention in the media, they are pretty small change when it comes to having a major share of wealth. I could not name the wealthiest people in Britain, but I could name some of the better known pop stars and sportsmen. I doubt very much that even one of those people would have any real economic clout. The real power is in the hands of people most of us have never heard of.
I actually think that in our society David Beckham deserves his loot no less than many top ranking company executives. I also admit freely that he is ultimately less useful to society as a whole than a good nurse, a good teacher or even a competent dustman. However, Ron Olesko is absolutely right to point out that heroes have been made in any age, without any consideration of their intrinsic value to society at large. On the one hand people take pot shots at Beckham for his supposed lack of intellect. On the other hand, they seem to feel he should share some of the responsibility for the injustices of society. I can't find it in my heart to begrudge him a healthy bank account and a good looking bird.

Subject: RE: BS: the Beckhams are in America, HOORAY!
From: autolycus
Date: 17 Jul 07 - 05:01 AM

Looks like I just need to repeat, society is the target, not the Beckhams.






       Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: the Beckhams are in America, HOORAY!
From: alanabit
Date: 17 Jul 07 - 06:45 AM

I've no problem with that.
Alan.

Subject: RE: BS: the Beckhams are in America, HOORAY!
From: GUEST,Harry
Date: 17 Jul 07 - 07:00 AM

Stop talking about these two creeps, it's not about their wealth or his football skills or her once being in a girl band.

The two of them are a bloody pain in the ass to look at the way they get on.

In reality they are a joke, doesn't matter how many times he screws around, she hangs on to him to remain in the limelight.

It's that that little girl from Liverpool who goes out with Wayne Rooney.

She has caught him twice with Prostitutes and still hangs on to him.

They may be wealthy without their men, but would soon fade into obscurity.


Entertainment for the semi illiterate.

Subject: RE: BS: the Beckhams are in America, HOORAY!
From: redsnapper
Date: 17 Jul 07 - 07:11 AM

I agree with alanabit. It's sad that there are many here who spend most of their time here griping and whingeing about others.

David Beckham is harmless enough and was/is a fine footballer and if they are happy together that's good. I agree that there's a lot wrong with societal values that makes some people vastly overpaid but I don't have a problem with the Beckhams themselves.

RS

Subject: RE: BS: the Beckhams are in America, HOORAY!
From: autolycus
Date: 17 Jul 07 - 09:17 AM

'course, that there are things wrong with societal values says much about us.





      Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: the Beckhams are in America, HOORAY!
From: Rapparee
Date: 17 Jul 07 - 09:25 AM

I've been watching this thread grow and grow and it leaves me with a question:

Who the hell ARE the Beckhams and why should I be glad they're here?

Subject: RE: BS: the Beckhams are in America, HOORAY!
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 17 Jul 07 - 09:28 AM

Rapaire - don't worry about it if you have no idea. If you can't figure it out, why ask us????????????????

Subject: RE: BS: the Beckhams are in America, HOORAY!
From: Big Phil
Date: 17 Jul 07 - 09:42 AM

It is amazing how a couple who are as dull as a nine bob note can get such a fortune as the Beckhams have. But its down to the fools who pay to see Mr B kicking a bag of wind, and Mrs B trying to sing while earning a fortune for doing so, so its really OUR fault they are so wealthy......... not theirs.........

Subject: RE: BS: the Beckhams are in America, HOORAY!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Jul 07 - 02:36 PM

yeh but I'm a windbag and I try to sing, there's no justice...

Subject: RE: BS: the Beckhams are in America, HOORAY!
From: Scoville
Date: 17 Jul 07 - 04:48 PM

Okay, but only if we can send y'all Paris Hilton in trade.

Subject: RE: BS: the Beckhams are in America, HOORAY!
From: John O'L
Date: 18 Jul 07 - 06:25 AM

Well after having searched my soul, re-examined my motives and purged my bladder, it seems that I have probably been unnecessarily harsh on Mr. & Mrs B.
I think exceptional sportsmen & women should be celebrated, (not idolised), and it seems that he has been exceptional.
It is the system within which they must necessarily work that arouses my ire.
It uses them, they use it, It becomes part of them, they become part of it, I buy the monogrammed toilet rolls, the profits go to the corporate shareholders,
my in-bred nextdoor neighbours.
Something is very wrong, and the Beckhams, innocuous though they may be, are contractually obliged to be the public face of it for the immediate future at least, and I guess we're all stuck with that.

Subject: RE: BS: the Beckhams are in America, HOORAY!
From: autolycus
Date: 18 Jul 07 - 11:49 AM

that's brilliant, John.

I'm full of admiration for that soul-searching.

That worth turning into an online tradition.






       Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: the Beckhams are in America, HOORAY!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Jul 07 - 01:50 PM

You miss the point of the British thread originator, Rapaire - from which perspective it's not "Hooray they're here", it's "Hooray, they aren't here any more"

Subject: RE: BS: the Beckhams are in America, HOORAY!
From: alanabit
Date: 18 Jul 07 - 01:57 PM

Respect from me too John. And as it happens, I feel pretty much the same way as you do about the media circus and celebrity culture.

Subject: RE: BS: the Beckhams are in America, HOORAY!
From: Flatpick
Date: 18 Jul 07 - 07:01 PM

Two of the people I don't need to share my century or friends with - all I have to say on the subject.
Sorry, USA, you have been my host on several vacations, you shouldn't have to endire this, you got them now, a new low in shallow.

Subject: RE: BS: the Beckhams are in America, HOORAY!
From: Soldier boy
Date: 18 Jul 07 - 10:40 PM

Whats all the fuss about folks, especially across the pond in the US of A?
Us Brits have a reputation for breeding a culture of loathing and disrespect for those that achieve success and wealth, whereas the USA has a reputation for idolising and seeking to emulate those that achieve success and wealth. So why all the carping?
They are just two people that have earned millions who now, in the twilight of their careers, are chasing the dollar in America.
If you keep on offering the riches that a capitalist society can offer to pay homage to a new religion of celebrity worship what do you expect?
You are quickly becoming a last-chance saloon and retirement home for ex or failed british celebrities (although personally I would not include David Beckham in this category 'cause I still believe he has a lot to offer the English football team!)
What really gets me is this seemingly blind, compulsive and unending need for society in general to raise so-called celebrities up to god-like status. It makes me want to puke!

Subject: RE: BS: the Beckhams are in America, HOORAY!
From: John O'L
Date: 27 Nov 07 - 07:51 AM

I've just watched LA Galaxy play an exhibition match against Sydney FC. It was good entertainment, it had something for everyone, but the reason I've revived this thread is that before the game there was an hour-long interview with the man himself, David Beckham. I found him to be pleasant, polite, articulate, intelligent, down-to-earth and entertaining.

It was hard to realize that this was the same guy who has been in my peripheral awareness for so long. He's nothing like I've been led to believe.

BTW he mentioned that he's hopeful of captaining England in the World Cup of 2010.

I also learned tonight that LA Galaxy is paying him a million dollars a week. That's obscene.

Subject: RE: BS: the Beckhams are in America, HOORAY!
From: Rowan
Date: 27 Nov 07 - 04:32 PM

And one of the Beckhams kicked a goal in Sydney last night so, unless you regard Sydney as American (some people do, you know), one of them wasn't in America at the time.

Cheers, Rowan