BS: Wow, what a pain

Subject: BS: Wow, what a pain
From: katlaughing
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 11:40 AM

MYRTLE BEACH, South Carolina: People in the United States are living in a world of pain and they are popping pills at an alarming rate to cope with it.

The amount of five major prescription painkillers sold at retail establishments rose 88 percent between 1997 and 2005, according to an Associated Press analysis of statistics from the Drug Enforcement Administration.

More than 200,000 pounds (90,720 kilograms) of codeine, morphine, oxycodone, hydrocodone and meperidine were purchased at retail stores during the most recent year represented in the data. That total is enough to give more than 300 milligrams of painkillers to every person in the country.

click here to read more.

Subject: RE: BS: Wow, what a pain
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 11:46 AM

No wonder California is so full of smiling people, they're all off their faces!

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Wow, what a pain
From: wysiwyg
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 11:48 AM

Of course, addiction is addiction. The culture aims people to relieve pain with addictive substances.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Wow, what a pain
From: Nickhere
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 12:08 PM

WYSIWYG - you're absoultely right! I remember seeing an ad on the telly a few years back about an older guy in a corporation who has to take a few days off work because he is sick. He arrives back soner than expected to find a younger whipper-snapper already getting comfortable in his office (capitalisisng on fears of ageism and being 'over the hill'). The younger guy is surprised to see him back so soon, and indeed not too happy about it. He evidently had intended to supplant the older guy, taking advanatge of his sickness. The punch line? "XXXXXX - for when you haven't time to be sick" (XXXX = the name of the medictaion in question)

It sounds fair enough - sometimes we just have to keep going. But the more I thought about it, the more absurd it seemed! "Haven't time to be sick"? But being sick is the body's way of dealing with something that is wrong. It needs time to heal. Pain is the body's way of telling you something isn't working. The last thing you need is to mask these important signals with painkillers and just carry on regardless.

The hint about being over the hill also smacked of blackmail to me, though perhaps it wasn't intended in that way.

And of course if we want to tackle the illegal drugs problem, grown-ups need to look at their own pill-popping habits. If Mom and Dad take painkillers when they feel off form, why shouldn't their offspring take a few tablets of their own when they feel down?

Subject: RE: BS: Wow, what a pain
From: jacqui.c
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 12:24 PM

Problem is, in addition to the addictive qualities, once you start popping pills for every little ache and pain it takes more of them to have the same effect.

I believe that there was a study done some time ago suggesting that taking pills for headaches leads to more headaches over a period of time.

It wouldn't suit the drugs companies, but what we should be doing is learning to manage pain and to recognise the pain that needs to be controlled by drugs as opposed to that which can be managed simply by resting or even just acknowledging a degree of discomfort.

Right now I have an intermittent toothache, which will be dealt with this week. In the meantime, when it starts in I just acknowledge its existence and then try to forget about it. I try not to take any painkillers unless I really have a lot of pain.

Subject: RE: BS: Wow, what a pain
From: wysiwyg
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 12:34 PM

My dog is a great example. Right now he's scratching after fleas, and I am sure he'd like it to stop NOW. On the other hand, if I toss the squeaky toy, he feels-- fine! :~) It's a matter of where one puts one's attention. Putting the attention on something more pleasant can help prevent the pain from worsening, at least: it may not reduce the pain itself, but it can reduce the upset about the pain, and upset about pain tends to increase the pain itself.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Wow, what a pain
From: Nickhere
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 01:08 PM

I'm the same - generally I avoid painkillers unless the pain is just too much to carry out even basic tasks (which thankfully is a rare event in my life - the pain, not the basic tasks!)

I find most headaches I've had can be most easily cured by good diet, water (dehydration is a major cause) and rest / darkness. The few that are restitant to all these might require infrequent painkillers

Subject: RE: BS: Wow, what a pain
From: katlaughing
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 01:10 PM

Jacqui, oil of clove usually takes away tooth pain, at least it always works for me.:-)

Sometimes pain comes from not doing enough, exercise-wise. So, if one starts slowly and builds up their muscles and stamina, the pain of cramped and unused muscles is alleviated. Of course, if one is too vigorous, they'll have the pain of overdoing!

Adverts of meds have been insidious and increasing in number ever since they let them start up on tv. And, in our Culture of Fear, they play right into those fears as Nick noted above.

Subject: RE: BS: Wow, what a pain
From: Rapparee
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 01:33 PM

I don't use pills unless they are prescribed by the doctor (e.g., I take Metformnin, a/k/a Glucophage) or unless I truly feel I need them. We have Vicodin in the house, prescribed when I had some dental work done, and I have taken it because of pain.

However...500 mg Vicodin (a/k/a hydrocodone) will take 24 hours out of my life, and my wife flushed the 750s. One of the 500s, followed by a Tylenol with Codeine, followed by Tylenol (if still needed) is just fine for such things as the dental implants I had done.

Plain old Tylenol works fine for those scarce times when I have a bad headache or muscle ache.

99% of the time I don't take anything for pain....

Subject: RE: BS: Wow, what a pain
From: bobad
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 01:34 PM

Oil of clove is not always benign.

"In general, the use of cloves is regarded as safe for food use; however, when taken in large doses in its undiluted oil form or in clove cigarettes, side effects may occur. These include the following:

    * Vomiting
    * Sore Throat
    * Seizure
    * Sedation
    * Difficulty breathing
    * Hematemesis
    * Kidney Failure
    * Liver damage
    * Erectile dysfunction
    * Prolonged ejaculation
    * Seizure
    * Stomach irritation

Although the most common complaint of large doses of cloves is GI upset, those with kidney or liver disorders should avoid large doses of cloves. Serious side effects are more commonly reported in young children. There is insufficient evidence for cloves and its use in pregnancy or nursing."

http://altmed.creighton.edu/Cloves/Side%20effects.htm

Subject: RE: BS: Wow, what a pain
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 02:59 PM

The advent of direct-to-consumer advertising of prescription drugs has to be a factor in the increased use of prescription-strength pain medications. Drug companies are spending millions of dollars a day running television advertisements that basically tell consumers two things: prescription drugs always work better than non-prescription drugs, and patients are entitled to tell physicians what drugs they want to take. When a person with shoulder pain tells a doctor that Vicodin's worked well for him in the past, most docs aren't going to engage in the uphill battle of trying to convince the patient that aspirin and a menthol muscle rub will work just as well. Unless there's a truly compelling reason to turn down the patient's request, the doc's going to write the prescription. If he doesn't, the patient will find another physician who will.

Subject: RE: BS: Wow, what a pain
From: SINSULL
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 03:12 PM

Every time I have had surgery I have been given a supply of painkillers followed by the offer of more a few days later when I returned for follow up.
The first time (I had all my wisdom teeth out) I got a lecture on the value of painkillers in healing because I had taken only one pill - Percoden (sp?). It made me cotton headed and I preferred the pain -not nearly as bad as menstrual cramps - to the side effects. The doctor was not happy with my attitude.
The same happened after two other surgeries but what I found really funny was their refusal to give me Ambien to help me sleep. I dearly love the stuff. It makes me dream in technicolor. All the oxycodone my little heart desired but no technicolor dreams. SIGH

Subject: RE: BS: Wow, what a pain
From: jacqui.c
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 03:13 PM

I can't take aspirin or anti-inflammatories as they upset my stomach big time! I find, if I take Tylenol I end up drowsy and headachey for about twenty four hours, therefore it just ain't worth it at all, unless the pain is really bad, in which case that's the time to see the doctor.

I know about oil of cloves Kat - good stuff and best applied a little on cotton wool, but, since my toothache will hopefully be got rid of tomorrow after root canal I haven't bothered with it this time.

Subject: RE: BS: Wow, what a pain
From: Rapparee
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 03:30 PM

I've heard of oil of cloves being put on a bit of cotton ball and inserted into a tooth cavity, but I've never heard of anyone smoking or ingesting the stuff. I suppose doing so WOULD have adverse effects.

"No, I'm sorry, but I can't professionally justify Viagra in your case."
"But why not, doctor?"
"Well, Amanda...."

Subject: RE: BS: Wow, what a pain
From: wysiwyg
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 04:17 PM

Am I nuts, or do I recall correctly that Viagra has been prescribed for women to increase blood flow to the clitoris to address orgasm issues?

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Wow, what a pain
From: katlaughing
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 04:38 PM

Good luck,jacqui.

Bobad, useful info. I generally only put a tiny drop on my finger and apply to the gum/tooth/what have you.

Rapaire, apparently smoking clove ciggies can be hazardous. Who knew!

Subject: RE: BS: Wow, what a pain
From: Sorcha
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 08:20 PM

My foot. Probably gout says the Dr. Geeze, no more wild meat for a while I guess.

Subject: RE: BS: Wow, what a pain
From: Amos
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 08:34 PM

I have just returned from a grim two hour wrestling match with a bunch of dental equipment. My remedy for pain is two aspirin and a cold-pack on the jaw. Even after a full-blown rotator cuff surgery, BBW used Vicodin for no more than the first three nights, preferring to dampen things down with Tylenol, or if possible just Ibuprofen.

My own belief is that pain is a message from the body, just like itches, pleasure, heat or pressure. And if you ignore the messages your body sends you, it will shut down harder, and get worse next time. Buying the Madison Avenue line about drugs is like believing in the 1950's advertisements about cigarettes being glamourous and tasting really good. Sometimes you have to cope somehow but the less, the better IMHO.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Wow, what a pain
From: Bee
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 08:49 PM

Ibuprofen does unspeakable things to my GI tract. Tylonel makes me dizzy and doesn't kill the pain (this is apparently a problem for some women: no pain reduction effect from tylonol and its clones). I take aspirin, which is old, well tested, and relatively harmless if taken appropriately, as long as your stomach is healthy. The only other painkiller I've ever used was prescription codeine for a severely damaged ankle.

But I am a believer in killing pain before it gets too bad, with an anti-inflammatory like aspirin - a lot of pain is caused by inflammation, and more pain increases inflammation, thus increases pain, and slows down healing.

Subject: RE: BS: Wow, what a pain
From: SINSULL
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 09:16 PM

Excedrin on the rare occasions when I need something. I agree re: inflammation. Better to calm it then just let it get worse.

Subject: RE: BS: Wow, what a pain
From: Rapparee
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 09:28 PM

I will possibly use hydrocodone (Vicodine) if I have been cut into or my god-like body similarily abused, even though I tend to watch the ceiling fan go around and around and around and around and.... Otherwise, no. Tylenol, perhaps, or even a NSAID if the inflammation is bad enough.

Thanks, but I'd druther save the big guns for when big guns are really needed.

Subject: RE: BS: Wow, what a pain
From: Sorcha
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 11:32 PM

As would I. Been using ice, gentle! massage and elevate on my foot. Plus Diet. Have the Gout pain meds, don't plan to try to use them unless it continues to get worse. Hell, it's just a form of arthritis.

Subject: RE: BS: Wow, what a pain
From: katlaughing
Date: 21 Aug 07 - 12:10 AM

Even when the big guns are called for, they can still really mess you up and I hate that. After heart surgery they had me on a bunch of stuff, then sent me home with vicodin, I think it was, not telling me it could totally gum up the intestinal works. Trying to go number 2 while not pushing because you're afraid you might burst open your rib cage and stitches, will make you swear off the damn things forever!:-)

If you can find a therapist who uses the Rossiter System it can work miracles on arthritis, sore muscles, old injuries, etc. with NO drugs.

Subject: RE: BS: Wow, what a pain
From: JennyO
Date: 21 Aug 07 - 06:04 AM

I found out after being given pethidine when I had my first child, that my body can't tolerate anything but the smallest doses of all the opioids. A few times since, hospitals have ignored my warnings and insisted on my trying "just a little" morphine or something similar, always with the same result - they made me really really sick. The last couple of times I was in hospital - broken ankle in '99 and broken wrist in 2002, I made sure they knew and I had an allergy bracelet. I can tolerate a lower dose (8mg) of codeine, if I REALLY need something a bit stronger, but I hardly ever do.

While in hospital recovering from an operation on the broken wrist in 2002, I was given a Patient-Controlled Analgesia (PCA) device with a medication of paracetamol and a low dose of codeine. This worked really well, because I seem to need less of medications than a lot of people, and so I only pressed the button when I REALLY needed it. I ended up having way less than a normal dose, but it worked. Knowing you are in control is good because it helps eliminate fear and upset about pain, and as Susan said further up, being upset about pain can increase it.

I rarely need anything for pain - I can eliminate most headaches and minor aches and pains by taking magnesium regularly, drinking a lot of water, relaxation, fresh air and diet. The most I have ever needed or wanted - and then not very often - is paracetamol or Advil (ibuprofen) in the soluble blue caps. Liniment and a hot wheat bag is good for a bad back, and sleeping in a good position helps.

I believe you can get a rebound effect from taking too many painkillers, as jacqui.c mentioned, especially when the need for higher doses starts happening. The constipation is not very pleasant either. Anyway, as others have said, it's not good to mask symptoms too much. Pain means your body is trying to tell you something, and listening to your body doesn't just mean covering up the symptoms with painkillers.

Subject: RE: BS: Wow, what a pain
From: GUEST,The black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 21 Aug 07 - 08:26 AM

Pain is the body's way of telluing you that something is wrong. It would be nice though if you could tell the body that you've got the message and you're doing something about it!

I have always needed extra pain killers to have any effect when having dental treatment, so perhaps I'm a bit immune to them, but I can put up with a fair amount of pain in the mouth area anyway so on several occasions have done without any.

I do take an anti-inflammatory when I get back pain (slip disk territory) not so much for pain as to regain flexibilty. The inflamed muscle tissue seizes my spine up and I can't reach my feet!

When I have had a more serious injury I found it interesting that I was getting shock symptoms rather than pain. Helped me keep a clear head and do the right things.

Subject: RE: BS: Wow, what a pain
From: Amos
Date: 21 Aug 07 - 10:14 AM

It would be nice though if you could tell the body that you've got the message and you're doing something about it!



Well, why not? Tell it what you want. It often helps, even though the body, of course, does not talk back out loud.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Wow, what a pain
From: Edmond
Date: 21 Aug 07 - 10:57 AM

Possibly a slight thread creep, but nevertheless to do with pill popping.

In the 1970s when the world was 'normal' we took acid to make it strange.

In the 2000s, when the world is strange, we take Prozac to make it normal.

Subject: RE: BS: Wow, what a pain
From: Rapparee
Date: 21 Aug 07 - 11:51 AM

I can also take care of some pain via yoga, a trick I learned when I was in Korea with the Army.

Because of her surgeries my wife has a VERY high pain threshold. She gets fillings without lidocaine, which causes the dentist more problems than it causes her.

Your body can produce endorphines and other pain-lessening secretions. We're far better off using them, but when I need help, sure, bring it on.

Subject: RE: BS: Wow, what a pain
From: jacqui.c
Date: 21 Aug 07 - 12:18 PM

I'm back from a session of root canal work with my dentist telling me that I should teach his other patients my relaxation techniques.

He had to shoot a lot of Novocane into the area and then use something else with more power just to get the drilling (pulp VERY inflamed) done so right now I'm slightly away with the fairies and glad that I got Kendall to pick me up. I've got a scrip for Vicodin, which will not get filled unless I have real problems and I'm hoping to be able to manage without the Tylenol he's recommended. Hopefully, just relaxing into any discomfort will work.

Subject: RE: BS: Wow, what a pain
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 21 Aug 07 - 12:28 PM

Beware of "Blaming the victim."

American consumers of healthcare are the target of a megatrillion dollar healthcare industry.

The finest scientific minds on the planet create products and the finest marketing minds of the planet sell them.

And then we wonder why people demand and use them.

Why do they do that?

Because they can.

In the old days we "dealt with it" because we had no choice.

Russ (Permanent GUEST)

Subject: RE: BS: Wow, what a pain
From: Becca72
Date: 21 Aug 07 - 01:26 PM

Before being diagnosed with a herniated disc my request for pain killers was what tipped off my NP that something serious was going on, as I generally flatly refuse meds of any sort. I won't even take anything for a headache unless it gets really bad. Which is also why, I guess, I can take only the recommended dose and have it work.

Subject: RE: BS: Wow, what a pain
From: EBarnacle
Date: 21 Aug 07 - 01:36 PM

I have long been one who avoids pain meds--which is why my doctors are willing to give me large scrips for Tylenol 3 [with codeine] whenever I ask. They know that when I want a pain med, I want something that is strong enough to match the pain. Usually, it's about once every 18 months but until my back gets surgery this is going up.

From their home page, I got the impression that the Rossiter system says to expect results even with ruptured disks and other problems normally treated with surgery. I find that hard to accept and that throws the rest of their claims into doubt.

Subject: RE: BS: Wow, what a pain
From: Tinker
Date: 22 Aug 07 - 11:43 AM

Having frown up in New England, "tough it out" has always been my personal attituded towards pain. But watching my kids suffer has changed my view. One child's pain and inflamation is now controlled by diet, but the other has been diagnosed with a rare syndome (Stiff person syndrome )that causes random severe muscle spasms.
The almighty advertising dollar has "taught" us that we can live pain free. Well, sometimes there is no magic pill. We continue to work with specialist for a combination that will relieve the pain at least temporarily. A day would be nice at this point. We may at some point in the future have to consider quality of life over the side effects and potentially shortening life. He's 18.

So do I agree that we need to listen to our bodies better, absolutely. We also have piles of useless pills that didn't serve their purpoase adding to the inflated numbers in the studies. I may be rambling, but remember for somefolks pain is a daily reality. All that research does serve some purpose.

Subject: RE: BS: Wow, what a pain
From: Amos
Date: 22 Aug 07 - 12:57 PM

And from one perspective, pushing too hard to live pain-free can also result in living pleasure-free. Shutting down the doors of perception because you don't like what you see (or feel) is probably unwise.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Wow, what a pain
From: Llanfair
Date: 22 Aug 07 - 02:10 PM

Rapaire- how did you get to have just metformin? When my diabetes was diagnosed, the doctor rubbed his hands with glee and prescribed half the pharmacy!!!
I asked for some co-codamol because the nerve damage in my feet causes some big-time electric shocks, and he was very cross that I only wanted to take one when the pain was bad. Told me to take the full daily dose to keep it at bay.
That's the national health service for you!!