BS: Cover blown on Quebec police tactics

Subject: BS: Cover blown on Quebec police tactics
From: 3refs
Date: 25 Aug 07 - 11:10 AM

Sat, August 25, 2007

Cover blown on Quebec police tactics
By Licia Corbella

   


It's common practice for police to go undercover and infiltrate potentially dangerous groups.

When it comes to protest groups, their role is to identify those who are planning violence and to help de-escalate potentially volatile situations -- not to incite them.

But that, shamefully, is what it appears the Surete du Quebec got up to during the recent tri-lateral meetings between Prime Minister Stephen Harper and the presidents of the United States and Mexico.

Three balaclava-wearing police, posing as thug-like young anarchists were outed by Dave Coles, president of the Communications Energy and Paperworkers Union of Canada during anti-globalization protests of the Security and Prosperity Partnership summit Monday in Montebello, Que.

A video available on YouTube.com shows Coles trying to de-escalate potential violence -- not created by members of his peaceful protest, but by the officers.



At first, Coles demands: "Put the rock down, this is our line. This is for old guys, grandmothers, grandfathers," he yells.

Eventually, Coles realizes that the provocateurs are police. When they are outed, the undercover officers embarrassingly inch towards their uniformed colleagues decked out in full riot gear.

Initially, the Surete du Quebec denied they used undercover agents. But the video trapped them. On Thursday they admitted that the three arrested men were indeed cops, but insist they weren't attempting to provoke protesters into violence, rather they were in the crowd to find those seeking to cause violence.

Nonsense. Their cover was blown by Coles who first thought they were thugs intent on disturbing his peaceful protest.

The Quebec provincial government should investigate this.

Better yet, it's long past due that police across the country have fully independent oversight groups looking into complaints against them.

Having police investigate police usually leads to zero accountability.

This time video made the police look like the bad guys and the usual suspects the good guys.

With video phones increasingly common, they have to better watch themselves, not just others.

Subject: RE: BS: Cover blown on Quebec police tactics
From: Metchosin
Date: 25 Aug 07 - 11:37 AM

I'll put my post of yesterday from another thread here as it seems more appropriate

Subject: RE: Homeland Security??????? For shame!!
From: Metchosin - PM
Date: 24 Aug 07 - 05:18 AM

Dianavan, while I sympathize with US citizens who are upset about jackboot police behavior within their own borders and agree that this is probably heavy handed political grandstanding, I think before we do any cross border criticizing, we should demand some clean up of the "jackbooting" that is happening on this side of the border first.

"The Quebec provincial police acknowledged in a statement Thursday that their agents had infiltrated protesters demonstrating during the recent North American leaders summit in Montebello, Que. but denied that they acted as "agent provocateurs" to instigate violence." CN

More about the incident is available HERE and includes the Youtube video of the incident, where a Union organizor demanded that the "three black bandana clad police provocateurs" put their rocks down. The three were finally "arrested" (yeah, right) to the applause of the peaceful demonstrators.

It is beyond me how the Quebec police can claim that their "police agents" were not trying to instigate something and not behaving in a provocative manner. Perhaps they think that wearing a black bandana over their face and carrying a large rock during a demonstration is just an example of poor fashion sense on the part of the officers who were just trying to "fit in". LOL I'd at least agree there, these turkeys stuck out like sore thumbs.

While the incident was not as frightening as the American one, as a Canadian, I found this recent event disturbing and insidious, although not surprising.

My apologies Mick, for getting a bit sidetracked regarding our own goons

Subject: RE: BS: Cover blown on Quebec police tactics
From: Metchosin
Date: 25 Aug 07 - 11:48 AM

Makes me kinda wonder how many "first rocks" were thrown by "plants" at other demostrations in the past.

One thing for certain, even if the government does investigate this incident, ten years from now it will still be under wraps with an inconclusive finding. That's the Canadian way.

What I can say for certain is that I am very glad that there were cameras everywhere. Thank God for the internet. It is getting way harder to hide stuff like this.

Subject: RE: BS: Cover blown on Quebec police tactics
From: Janie
Date: 25 Aug 07 - 12:13 PM

How much do you want to bet that we will soon be hearing evidence of an increase in the confiscation of cameras and video devises at protests?

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: Cover blown on Quebec police tactics
From: bobad
Date: 25 Aug 07 - 01:35 PM

The police will have an internal investigation and announce that what they were doing is common practice and they were protecting the public and not instigating and blah, blah, blah etc. This is the usual way these things get handled in Quebec as there is no police oversight except for the politicians and they always claim to have no influence over policing practices - and so it goes.

Subject: RE: BS: Cover blown on Quebec police tactics
From: Rapparee
Date: 25 Aug 07 - 06:10 PM

Shucks, even here in Pocatello, Idaho we have a civilian review board. Last year two cops were serving a warrant when the guy, alerted by his girlfriend, burst out of the bedroom shooting. The cops fired back, leaving him dead on the floor.

They immediately radioed for backup AND the Chief, and as soon as help arrived bagged their weapons in evidence bags. Still loaded, still cocked, safeties on.

They were immediately placed on administrative leave with pay and the review panel convened (this sort of thing doesn't happen very often here, thank God). After reviewing the statement from the cops, the girlfriend, and everyone involved; after viewing the videotape from the cop's cruiser (cops have videos too) that was filming through the open door of the house, after the ballistic tests (both cops fired killing rounds), after the autopsy, after the protective vest of the one cop was examined (yes, he'd been hit and the bullet would have hit his heart except for the vest), the verdict was that the police acted in a reasonable and legal manner and were to be commended for showing restraint and professionalism (cops 2 bullets, bad guy 6).

If Canada does not have independent civilian review boards of the police, Canada is failing in its duty to its citizens.

Subject: RE: BS: Cover blown on Quebec police tactics
From: bobad
Date: 25 Aug 07 - 07:14 PM

Canada has three levels of policing; federal, provincial and municipal. The federal force is the RCMP. Three provinces have provincial forces (Ontario, Quebec and Newfoundland (large urban areas only). The remainder of the country (and rural Newfoundland) contracts the provincial policing out to the RCMP. As far as I know the only force (other than municipal) that has civilian review is Ontario, and that was only instituted in May of this year. For Quebec to introduce any sort of civilian oversight would require the consent of the police union, which is very powerful, it is widely believed that the union calls the shots in Quebec and they are not about to relinquish their powers.

Subject: RE: BS: Cover blown on Quebec police tactics
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 25 Aug 07 - 07:33 PM

Protest that is without unified purpose and without the support of the people is useless.
Here in Alberta we heard of nothing that was worth demonstrating about; the leaders of the three North American Countries should be able to meet and discuss mutual interests without interference.

Subject: RE: BS: Cover blown on Quebec police tactics
From: Metchosin
Date: 25 Aug 07 - 08:56 PM

Well for those that have no idea regarding what the SPP is about, a good starting point is covered here:

Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America

Myself, I would rather that discussions regarding such far ranging things also be done in Parliament, that's what the damned place is for. Oh.....I forgot, some of those recently elected fellows just view parliamentary democracy as a small annoying hindrance to the corporate agenda.

Subject: RE: BS: Cover blown on Quebec police tactics
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 25 Aug 07 - 09:10 PM

The three countries should work together closely- SPP should be on the table of their leaders.

Subject: RE: BS: Cover blown on Quebec police tactics
From: Metchosin
Date: 25 Aug 07 - 09:11 PM

That aside, the point is not whether you agree or believe their protests are worthwhile Q, but the legality and appropriateness of disguised members of a police force carrying rocks in their hands, at a legal and peaceful demostration. Perhaps you believe they should have been carrying baseball bats instead?

Subject: RE: BS: Cover blown on Quebec police tactics
From: Metchosin
Date: 25 Aug 07 - 09:17 PM

Canada is not a republic, Q. We don't have a President as the supreme commander.....yet.

Subject: RE: BS: Cover blown on Quebec police tactics
From: Rapparee
Date: 25 Aug 07 - 10:06 PM

In some respects Canada seems to be a country ruled by investigative committees.

Subject: RE: BS: Cover blown on Quebec police tactics
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 25 Aug 07 - 10:19 PM

We have a prime minister who, as long as he has a majority of supporters in Parliament- at this time the PQ and PC working together- is supremo.

Who is Licia Corbella? Calgary's raving lunatrix, with the tabloid rag called the Calgary Sun, best known for its daily sexpot photo.

Subject: RE: BS: Cover blown on Quebec police tactics
From: Metchosin
Date: 25 Aug 07 - 10:19 PM

I think you could liken some of them to Congressional Committees on your side of the line, Rap. Whether they have as much clout is debateable. BG

There's nothing committee-like about the floor of the House of Commons. At some times all the House of Commons is missing is a sheet of ice and skates. LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Cover blown on Quebec police tactics
From: Rapparee
Date: 25 Aug 07 - 10:27 PM

Actually and really truly, I'm currently reading Ian Ferguson's book "Why I Hate Canadians" (10th anniversary edition). I also have his "How To Be Canadian", just in case. 8-)

I picked them up in Canada recently -- in Canmore or Banff or Jasper or Hinton or Edmonton or Calgary...someplace, anyway. Bought about 20 books I'd have a hard time getting down here.

If you're Canadian and you haven't read "Hate" please do so. Ditto if you live in the US. It's a fine collection of thoughtful essays, passed off as humor (or humour, depending on your point of view).

Subject: RE: BS: Cover blown on Quebec police tactics
From: bobad
Date: 25 Aug 07 - 10:45 PM

The leaders have the right to meet anyway they wish and the people have the right to peacefully protest the actions of their leaders. The police do not have the right to attempt to instigate the protesters into committing acts of violence in order to discredit them.

Subject: RE: BS: Cover blown on Quebec police tactics
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 26 Aug 07 - 12:07 AM

Interesting Side Note... at the upcoming APEC conference in AUs, the NSW police were planning to use mounted police - they have borrowed extra horses from all over the country. Mounted Police do work in crown control - the physical size intimidation effect, and the 'cutsie effect' because nobody 'nice' would apparently want to hurt horses by either stabbing, or throwing cat piss about...

The Australian Horse Racing Industry has been shut down for the moment - The Melbourne Cup may even be postponed - because a few horses have contracted equine flu - to which Aussie horses have no immunity, and against which they are not vaccinated. The Police stables are right in the epicentre of the quarrantine area...

Subject: RE: BS: Cover blown on Quebec police tactics
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 26 Aug 07 - 12:18 AM

Interesting Side Note... at the upcoming APEC conference in AUs, the NSW police were planning to use mounted police - they have borrowed extra horses from all over the country. Mounted Police do work in crowd control - the physical size intimidation effect, and the 'cutsie effect' because nobody 'nice' would apparently want to hurt horses by either stabbing, or throwing cat piss about...

The Australian Horse Racing Industry has been shut down for the moment - The Melbourne Cup may even be postponed - because a few horses have contracted equine flu - to which Aussie horses have no immunity, and against which they are not vaccinated. The Police stables are right in the epicentre of the quarrantine area...

Subject: RE: BS: Cover blown on Quebec police tactics
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 26 Aug 07 - 12:52 AM

The time our Qld Premier 'Uncle Joh' - a notorious anti-intellectual - got his Honary Doctorate at QLd Uni, I bumped into people I hadn't seen for years. Just as he was arriving, the organisers called us all away from the doors, 100 meters away. Funnily enough, as we moved away, those who had been the most vocal, about 20 of them, suddenly started the game of trying to comically hide behind each other - the chant then went up - "Special Branch - Special Branch - Special Branch"... :-)

On TV the scene looked pretty good - a real crush (and that 20 people LOOKED like a real big crowd!) that Joh had to fight his way thru - except those of there there KNEW the lie - they were all 'Joh's Stormtroopers' (in plain clothes!) - not 'the crowd of violent protestors'... :-)

Now I firmly believe that Police Provocateurs ARE ALWAYS the start of any violence - as that then helps justify heavy handed tactics, and lots of arrests....

Robin the Cynical Bastard :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Cover blown on Quebec police tactics
From: Metchosin
Date: 26 Aug 07 - 01:58 AM

bobad, from what I can ascertain only PEI is without some form of civilian oversight of law enforcement and apparently PEI's Complaints Commission is close to fruition. As you mentioned, just how effective and independent from political interference the various Police Complaints Commissions are in each province is another matter and the RCMP is a separate beast altogether.

A recent event here in BC involved an unarmed young man shot in the back of the head while in RCMP custody. So far the RCMP have investigated themselves in this case and ruled self defense on the part of the officer involved. Getting the case reviewed by the RCMP Complaints Commission could take years.

It probably got a lot more media attention here because the victim wasn't aboriginal. My apologies for allowing the cynic within me to rear its nasty head.

Also from what I understand the whole security for the conference in Montebello, Quebec was under the auspices of the RCMP. As such, shouldn't the responsibility for the cock-up, no matter what separate police department blew it, ultimately be with the RCMP?

Subject: RE: BS: Cover blown on Quebec police tactics
From: bobad
Date: 26 Aug 07 - 08:27 AM

The Commission for Public Complaints Against the RCMP (Commission) was established by Parliament in 1988. It is an independent civilian body that reports publicly to Parliament through the Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness. The Commission investigates public complaints regarding the conduct of RCMP members. In most cases, complainants must first approach the RCMP. However, the Commission Chair does have limited authority to commence his or her own investigation or may proceed directly to a public interest hearing. The RCMP is not obligated to follow recommendations made by the Chair or by a public interest hearing panel.

http://www.parl.gc.ca/information/library/PRBpubs/prb0409-e.htm

Subject: RE: BS: Cover blown on Quebec police tactics
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 26 Aug 07 - 11:01 AM

Foolestroupe told us:

The Police stables are right in the epicentre of the quarrantine area...

The center of the quarantine area is underground, and the stables are on the surface above the center????

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Cover blown on Quebec police tactics
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 26 Aug 07 - 08:23 PM

An epicentre on a 2 dimensional map is not underground....

Subject: RE: BS: Cover blown on Quebec police tactics
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 26 Aug 07 - 08:35 PM

... according to journalists - who apparently speak a dialect of English few besides them comphrend...

:-P

Subject: RE: BS: Cover blown on Quebec police tactics
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Aug 07 - 08:45 PM

Goon Squads


as old as the hills and an important tool for police states and deadly despicable dictatorial despots.

Here in DC the plain clothes police goons peppersprayed anti bush demonstrators at the last inauguration. I have the links to the video.

Subject: RE: BS: Cover blown on Quebec police tactics
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 26 Aug 07 - 08:48 PM

"peppersprayed anti bush demonstrators"

Give a thug a dangerous toy, and he can't stop using it...

Subject: RE: BS: Cover blown on Quebec police tactics
From: Metchosin
Date: 27 Aug 07 - 03:23 AM

According to Stockwell Day, "They were being encouraged to throw rocks and they were not throwing rocks, it was the protesters who were throwing the rocks. That's the irony of this,"

Irony? LOL Uh ....right.... there were sure a lot of protester's rocks flying in that video, Mr Day..... and I'm supposed to believe your version of the event and not my own eyes? Just what have you been stuffing in your pipe, man?

"Liberalism is trust of the people tempered by prudence; Conservatism is distrust of the people, tempered by fear"..... William Gladstone

Subject: RE: BS: Cover blown on Quebec police tactics
From: Rapparee
Date: 27 Aug 07 - 09:51 AM

They told me, Doncha go down to that city
Doncha go down to that city, I say,
'Cause there's trouble there for sure
And it's no concern of yours....
That's all I had to hear them people say.

CH: If you don't look around you won't see me a-goin'
See me a-goin' that way
If you don't look around you'll have no way of knowin'
I don't think you even know what I say....

And I saw children just walkin' 'long and singin'
When a voice from behind me rang through,
And I saw an ugly man with a mad dog in his hand
Sayin' "Stand right there or I'll turn him loose on you."

CH

So don't you tell me there ain't no time for singin'
I don't need no empty words from you,
If they're sayin' who ain't free then they're sayin' it righ to me
Just go back home, I'll wake you when we're through....

Subject: RE: BS: Cover blown on Quebec police tactics
From: Peace
Date: 27 Aug 07 - 03:18 PM

Metchosin: Stockwell Day has the brains of yer average turnip that was subjected to a short growing season.

Subject: RE: BS: Cover blown on Quebec police tactics
From: Peace
Date: 27 Aug 07 - 03:23 PM

So I was thinking that
at last there was a good reason for the CSIS--let them investigate this type of illegal police activity and kick the effers off the force. Alas, maybe CSIS was involved, too. Canada needs a good house-cleaning. Starting at the top.

Subject: RE: BS: Cover blown on Quebec police tactics
From: Rapparee
Date: 27 Aug 07 - 03:47 PM

So does the US, to which Canada all too often compares itself.

Subject: RE: BS: Cover blown on Quebec police tactics
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 27 Aug 07 - 07:44 PM

And Oz.... :-)

for both statements.... ;-P

Subject: RE: BS: Cover blown on Quebec police tactics
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 27 Aug 07 - 08:08 PM

Little Fascist Johnny has been ranting about 'violent denonstrators' being the reason to spend Millions of dollars on 'Security' - including setting up a 'secure' native animal zoo om Garden island for the wives of the leaders :-)

Funny, last few 'meetings' here the demonstrators have been corraled humdreds of meters away in special 'demo areas'...

Subject: RE: BS: Cover blown on Quebec police tactics
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 27 Aug 07 - 08:10 PM

sorry - meant to say - at APEC...