cyclists versus motorists

Subject: RE: cyclists versus motorists
From: Rowan
Date: 28 Aug 07 - 02:26 AM

At high school I rode a pushbike (in the Ozspeak of the time) about 2 miles each way between home and school and learned to cope with sharing a narrow arterial road with lots of cars, vans, trucks and semitrailers (what those in the US call "18 wheelers); this meant knowing and obeying all the road rules; I also rode one about 4 miles each way when at uni. In all that time I never had much of a problem with traffic or motorists with attitude, so long as I kept an eye out for parked cars with a driver still in it (a wide berth is prudent), vehicles slowing down and likely to turn off the road and across my path without looking.

But I was riding the oldfashioned sort of bike that had ordinary flat pedals that didn't trap your feet, so you could stop properly and safely where the rules said you should. Times and attitudes among most groups have changed and road rage seems more frequent from all groups. It crept up on me, unnoticed, until I spent time in Columbia SC. My partner was doing a sabbatical at USC while I looked after daughter #1, then 15 months old. Friends had loaned me a pushbike so I loaded daughter into the backpack baby carrier, put helmets on both of us, and toured the place on the bicycle.

I was astonished with the politeness of the drivers, who treated us courteously and usually changed lanes to overtake, rather than the Oz practice of "let's see how close we can drive to him while overtaking at speed" I'd routinely observed at home. We must have looked a bit of a sight but I was mightily impressed.

These days I live too far away from work to efficiently use a bike but, cyclists are always given the same respect as cars as far as I've always been concerned.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: cyclists versus motorists
From: autolycus
Date: 28 Aug 07 - 01:56 AM

'Giok', lots of cyclists like me also have jobs, so we pay tax, some of which goes to pay for transport, roads.

   When I'm cycling, I find virtually all motorists very respectful.

   For those who worry about being safe on a bike, an answer is to ride with

             a controlled wobble.





          Ivor

Subject: RE: cyclists versus motorists
From: Peace
Date: 27 Aug 07 - 08:03 PM

I was driving in another city recently, and a cyclist passed me on the right when I was making a right-hand turn to another street. The dumb effer damned near got run over. Some folks just ask for it, ya know? I wondered aloud where the cops were, because it's incumbent on cyclists to follow rules of the road. The passenger told me that the police didn't bother to enforce laws to do with cyclists. Shame.

Subject: RE: cyclists versus motorists
From: Greg B
Date: 27 Aug 07 - 07:28 PM

What the cycle-istas refuse to recognize is that their
arrogant road-hogging causes, fair or unfair, other
cyclists to be more at risk due to motorists who've just
lost patience with the lot of 'em.

Subject: RE: cyclists versus motorists
From: Bill D
Date: 27 Aug 07 - 05:40 PM

Oh...and Wolfgang, in Wash. D.C., bike messengers are famous for acting very much as you indicate they do where you are....it seems to be considered part of the job to flaunt the rules in order to make more deliveries.   Ther have been a couple of big stories when one of them has caused some serious injury....or gotten himself hurt.

Subject: RE: cyclists versus motorists
From: Bill D
Date: 27 Aug 07 - 05:25 PM

"I feel that riding slowly between 2 lines of almost static trafic is acceptable. "

The law says otherwise...there are TWO lanes,and a cyclist is legally required to be in one or the other, unless there is a marked lane especially for them.....which I approve of when 'possible'.

Sadly, I see more cases of cyclists...motor & pedal....abusing the rules than I see of motorists harassing cyclists. I do NOT approve of motorists refusing to give cyclists their rights or putting them in danger, but sharing the road has to be done by both sides.

Subject: RE: cyclists versus motorists
From: Peace
Date: 27 Aug 07 - 05:09 PM

Discourteous arseholes are not defined by the vehicle they ride in or on. Seen my share of both--probably been my share of both, too.

Subject: RE: cyclists versus motorists
From: Greg B
Date: 27 Aug 07 - 04:00 PM

Out here we have the cycle clubs hopping up and down and
demanding we 'share the road.'

Then they descend on country roads in packs of 40 or 80,
ride three abreast, and damned if they'll squeeze over single
file to let a car get by safely. They're limited to 20 MPH
in a 50 MPH zone, and they're ever-so-much more virtuous than
cars, and they're going to prove it.

On the other hand, I saw a single cyclist get all incensed and
self-righteous when, riding alone down a country road, he
nearly collided with the nose of a pickup truck pulling
ever-so-slowly out of a blind driveway to get to the
point where he could actually see down the road and the
oncoming traffic. Apparently the pick-em-up truck driver
was supposed to simply intuit the cyclist who chose to ride
the shoulder.

Then I got out of my car at the local grocer's, and started to
walk across the parking lot when I was beset by a pack of eight
or so touring-bike club members who to just ride around on all
sides of me. 'SHARE THE ROAD YOU SAY?' I hollered at the miscreants.

Then of course there are the ones who, rather than getting in line
at a stop sign, ride up to the front of the pack, then get out
in front of the cars they just passed and don't let 'em by, or
if they do let 'em by, it'll be for the tenth time because
they do it at every stop sign.

As others have implied, 'share the road' seems to mean 'we own
the road' to many, if not most, cyclists hereabouts, and it only
gets worse when they travel in packs, all clad in their requisite
yellow jerseys.

Subject: RE: cyclists versus motorists
From: Wolfgang
Date: 27 Aug 07 - 12:38 PM

My workday town is the cycle capital of Germany. More than 40% of all errands are made by cycle with cars holding athird place. Cyclists in my town:
- only stop at red lights when they might endanger themselves by ot stopping, but never for pedestrians. Some even sound they bell when I dare to cross the street with the green light for pedestrians.
- never stop at pedestrian crossings.
- never indicate a change of direction.
- use the wrong side of the street if it is more convenient
- use pedestrian crossings to cross a street while cycling forcing cars to brake.
- use the phone while cycling
- carry an umbrella while cycling in the rain. (You should see their look when I tell them in my nicest voice: "Would you mind using your left hand to indicate a change of direction next time?")

Cyclists are like tourists from another country: Nice, considerate and well liked when being only a few, but reckless, inconsiderate and bullyish when coming in large numbers.

Wolfgang, cyclist hater and cyclist

Subject: RE: cyclists versus motorists
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Aug 07 - 12:36 PM

I would still see that as the motorists fault, Kendall. Do people not look before opening their doors over there? Mind you, over here, they probably would have opened it on purpose! Must say that is one of the advantages of cycling, motor or pedal - The ability to fit where others don't. I feel that riding slowly between 2 lines of almost static trafic is acceptable. Weaving in and out of cars at 100Mph+ is pretty much a death wish though.

D.

Subject: RE: cyclists versus motorists
From: kendall
Date: 27 Aug 07 - 12:30 PM

Coming back from Boston last Thursday, we had bumper to bumper traffic in all lanes. We were creeping along at a speed of about a foot a week, and a guy on a motorcycle rode on the center line, then disappeared way up ahead. All it would have taken to spoil his day is someone to suddenly open a door just as he went to pass.

Subject: RE: cyclists versus motorists
From: Midchuck
Date: 27 Aug 07 - 12:23 PM

Yeah, I was stopped at a light a day or two ago and a cyclist came up between the lanes of cars, then didn't want to actually stop because it was too much work to take a foot out of the pedal clips. So he pedaled very slowly around the stopped cars until the light changed. Then I had to get past him twice because there was a stop sign at the next block and he went right on through it while I was stopped.

Parenthetically, my son and daughter and daughter's boy friend (can a guy a year away from the big five-oh be a "boy friend"?) are in Bozeman, MT, and are fanatical mountain bikers. They and their friends refer to cyclists on the highways as "road geeks." Another addition to the language out of Montana.

Peter

Subject: RE: cyclists versus motorists
From: Bill D
Date: 27 Aug 07 - 10:49 AM

You don't define an idiot by the number of wheels he has under him.

Recently I saw a VERY rare sight...a cyclist actually STOP at a stop sign, just like I do in my car. And near the same time, I had the not-so-rare experience of having a cyclist ride between the two lanes of traffic stopped at a light and use the roof of MY car to brace himself until the light changed.

Shimrod certainly did have it right. I will give cyclists all their road rights, and in return I expect them to honor mine, and follow ALL the laws.

Subject: RE: cyclists versus motorists
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 27 Aug 07 - 10:26 AM

No matter what anybody's attitude or skill level, cars, bikes, motorcyles and pedestrians are all radically different "vehicles" which move at different speeds and have different needs.

The only safe situation would be a system with different roads for each group. (Lotsa luck, right?)

Subject: RE: cyclists versus motorists
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Aug 07 - 09:56 AM

I use a car, a cycle and motor cycle regularly. Well, did until last year when the I decided the Honda 500 needed too much work doing to it - Holding out for a Harley Sportster now:-) And yes, I do know it is a posers bike. I am a poser:-P Anyway...

Yes, in the main it is car drivers that are the daftest and rudest. The bigger and more expensive the car, the dafter and ruder they get. On the motorbike particulary you can see them manuvering to block your progress through stationary traffic. Only revenge I ever took was removing the wing mirror from a BMW. Must say it felt good at the time:-)

There are however daft rude people on two wheels as well. My bit of 'revenge' above was something I should not have done and am not particularly proud off but when I could see him edging over the lane marker as he watched me in his mirror I could not resist it! I have not, however, been daft or rude enough to block a country lane completely by riding a pushbike with friends three abreast and 5 long at 15 MPH, refusing to go into single file even though it is a legal requirement. Nor have I ever run into or spat at old people walking quite legaly on the pavement. I have seen cyclists do both.

Non of us are perfect but some, from all walks of life, do try their best to be complete tossers...

Dave

Subject: RE: cyclists versus motorists
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 27 Aug 07 - 09:30 AM

Yeah, 'hoodies' (with black hoods) who cycle down the middle of suburban streets on dark winter evenings with no lights and no hands on the handle-bars. I suppose this is 'evolution-in-action' - just as long as its not me that 'selects' them for extinction (just imagine the resulting hassle)!

Subject: RE: cyclists versus motorists
From: wysiwyg
Date: 27 Aug 07 - 09:16 AM

The fault is the driver's, always-- but I have stopped several times while driving to try to tell road cyclists that their riding clothes are exactly the same color as the road. Even in broad daylight, they're invisible. Duh!

~S~

Subject: RE: cyclists versus motorists
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 27 Aug 07 - 08:22 AM

Who paid for the road they ride on free of charge?
G


Hee hee, that'll get the buggers going ¦¬]

Subject: RE: cyclists versus motorists
From: Midchuck
Date: 27 Aug 07 - 08:17 AM

I agree with everything said so far.

Especially what Shimrod said.

The point is that there are rules. There are rules for the highway, which you need to obey whether you're a driver of a car or truck, a motorcyclist, a cyclist, a pedestrian, or a rider of a shit machine, I mean a horse. There are other rules for sidewalks and hiking trails. There are plenty of car and truck drivers who obey the rules, and plenty of others who think they're above them. The same is true of cyclists.

Labeling one group "bad" and one group "good" makes rational discussion impossible.

Peter.

Subject: RE: cyclists versus motorists
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 27 Aug 07 - 08:07 AM

Only as bad as morons who cycle on footpaths, even in the town centres with no regard to old folks, blind people and women with prams.

Do you consider these cyclists ' twats ' then punkfolkrocker ?

eric

Subject: RE: cyclists versus motorists
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 27 Aug 07 - 07:58 AM

A couple of years ago I was visiting my (now ex) girlfriend in London.

We went for a walk in the the park on a nice, sunny afternoon. We failed to notice that a section of the path out of the park was marked as a cycle lane. Suddenly a female cyclist, pedalling madly, swerved round us and screamed, "you're on a f**king cycle path!!". Several small, carefree kiddiewinkies were on the cycle path too - she screamed at them as well. Some cyclists take themselves far too seriously.
Many cyclists also seem to operate a weird sort of logic which goes something like, "cars are bad so cars don't exist" or "I am morally superior to car drivers so I can perform any sort of manouever, whenever I like, without any warning and it's up to the car driver to avoid hitting me." (which it is, in a way - but don't push your luck!!).

Having said all that I believe that cyclists have a right to be on the road and, if I'm driving my car, I promise to do my utmost to be aware of you and to avoid hitting you. But please bear in mind that if the worst comes to the worst and you do something rash and unexpected, right in front of me, while I'm driving at 30 mph, you're going to come off worst ... that's just the way it is, unfortunately.

Subject: RE: cyclists versus motorists
From: kendall
Date: 27 Aug 07 - 06:57 AM

I go out of my way to not endanger a motorcycle rider. They are not hard to see if you have normal eyesight wired to a brain.

I have a similar problem with that same kind of flangehead. Yesterday we were driving down a side street, and a big assesd "Urban Assault Vehicle" pulled right out of her driveway, cut right across in front of us and drove on like we didn't exist.
She was much too young to know about antique cars and mechanical brakes.
I didn't say anything because my good friend, Andy, lives on that street, but Jacqui has a firm grip on the Anglo-Saxon language.

Subject: RE: cyclists versus motorists
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Aug 07 - 01:06 AM

nah in the uk..

a cunt is a despicable ruthless selfish murderous bastard..

[usually encased in a fast tin can on 4 wheels..]


but on the other finger..



a cunt is the most beautiful wonderfull creation nature ever provided

for the glorious lovin bewilderment & enchantment of mankind..


funny thing the english language.....


mind you though it gets even more complicated

when a bloke might be fer instance

suffering from strangulated thrombosed haemoroids..

ie.. my arse is a right cunt..!!!???

Subject: RE: cyclists versus motorists
From: katlaughing
Date: 27 Aug 07 - 12:51 AM

I am glad you are okay, pfr. I always chuckle a little when I see a UK use of "twat." Across the pond that is usually used to indicate female genitalia or what I call a "twidget." Of course, maybe that's a nicer way of calling someone a c**t over there?

Subject: RE: cyclists versus motorists
From: Rowan
Date: 27 Aug 07 - 12:00 AM

Some drivers don't think about the possibility they're not the only person in the world and others can be quite aggressive when cyclists are on the road. Some drivers go out of their way to harass cyclists.

There's a famous story of a cyclist in Canberra who got so peeved about drivers who seemed to see how little clearance they could give him while overtaking at speed (in the suburbs) that he machined a pointed extension to the axle in his offside (the right-hand side in Oz) pedal. The extension terminated in a point 9" further outboard than the normal axle on the pedal.

The first vehicle he scored (in the literal as well as the figurative sense) was a Volvo (Volvo drivers are regarded by many in Oz as the lowest form of recognisable life) which overtook him in the lane nearest the kerb on a road with four lanes in each direction. It was in broad daylight and the cyclist was wearing all the usual reflective clobber and also had a flag about 4' above his head, so the driver couldn't reaaly complain that he was hard to see.

The Volvo driver was so incensed about "malicious damage" that he took the cyclist to court. After both parties had given evidence the magistrate dismissed the Volvo driver's allegations and instructed the police to charge him with dangerous driving, on the basis that overtaking within 9" of the end of the normal pedal was far too little clearance to be be regarded as safe driving.

Score 1 for cyclists.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: cyclists versus motorists
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 26 Aug 07 - 11:29 PM

the only sunday this year in the UK

the sun came out
long enough for a decent cycle ride to the coast and back..


so i only nearly got killed once

by a twat in a car opening his door

like theres no outside world out there

for him to be concerned and bothered about......




useless f@ckwits..