BS: Is it worth buying stamps? (UK)

Subject: BS: Is it worth buying stamps? (UK)
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 09 Oct 07 - 07:05 PM

It's been quite nice not having received any junk mail for days, while members of the Union of Communications Workers have been on strike. But I'm beginning to wonder if I should e-mail my Christmas greetings this year instead of sending cards....?

Kitty

Subject: RE: BS: Is it worth buying stamps? (UK)
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 09 Oct 07 - 07:08 PM

It would save paper and hard working postpersons...

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Is it worth buying stamps? (UK)
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 09 Oct 07 - 07:15 PM

Yes, Liz, but the hard working (when they're working) postpersons do need mail to deliver to keep their jobs (and pensions)! Some people even still send their tax returns in by Royal Mail, don't they?

Kitty

Subject: RE: BS: Is it worth buying stamps? (UK)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Oct 07 - 07:19 PM

The other day my wife had a birthday, and no card from one of her oldest friends, just an email with a picture. She was not best pleased, and felt let down. Then the card turned up a day late and she cheered up.

So I don't advise it, Kitty. I don't think my wife is the only one who sees email as second best for those kind of things.
...................................

"It would save paper and hard working postpersons..." Save them from having a job, only too likely. Getting a job on the post at Christmas has always been a pretty handy option for a lot of people needing to earn a bit extra around Christmas.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it worth buying stamps? (UK)
From: GUEST,Post modernist
Date: 10 Oct 07 - 03:40 AM

There's only one outcome to all this- it's the same as the miners strike. They'll abolish the PO mail deliveries, and that's when the fun will begin. Because the new private lot will only want to do the easy deliveries, and won't accept measured deadlines, and what costs 34p now will cost £3 then. If you want to send a letter to Skye it will be £5 and will take a month to get there (if it does at all). And eveyone will say how wonderful it is not to be held to ransom by those greedy postmen.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it worth buying stamps? (UK)
From: Folkiedave
Date: 10 Oct 07 - 04:02 AM

I agree with post modernist.

Except to say the bosses will then award themselves huge payrises in the form of bonuses - except they have already done that - so it will be huger bonuses.

I am a member of the Telephone Preference Service so I don't get junk telephone calls. But I see junk mail as a job for someone.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it worth buying stamps? (UK)
From: The PA
Date: 10 Oct 07 - 05:15 AM

The post workers have gone back to work today and the news said it will take 4 to 5 days to clear the backlog of mail. This will be mean working overtime, I assume paid at time+1/2, or double time etc. So, they've just had 4 days off, unpaid and could now be paid double to clear the work they didnt do.

Isn't that like having extra paid holiday? or is it more complicated than that?

I have to say I do not know enough about the post workers individual jobs or working conditions to say whether they're wrong or right. I have no axe to grind with them, our company still collected our post from the sorting office at 8.30am anyway otherwise it does not arrive at the office until 11.30am. So it didnt really affect us. Anything urgent going out was e.mailed. But i do sympathise with small businesses etc who rely on the post.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it worth buying stamps? (UK)
From: Folkiedave
Date: 10 Oct 07 - 05:27 AM

I sympathise with the small businesses, I have one.

But the postal workers case is eloquently made by post modernist.

Why not ask your local post office workers who were on strike why they went on strike.

Ask how many of them use their private cars to deliver mail. There's a good start.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it worth buying stamps? (UK)
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 10 Oct 07 - 05:45 AM

The strike could continue on and off up to Christmas and so disrupt the Christmas mail.

Emails are not the same as cards but they are cheaper and easier - I'm seriously thinking of stopping sending all cards when I finish work (thinking of the cost) but then I'll miss all the cards when people start sending me emails instead; so perhaps I'll keep buying the stamps but post early.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it worth buying stamps? (UK)
From: The PA
Date: 10 Oct 07 - 05:47 AM

We live in a rural area and our village postman is an absolute 'god-send'. None of that 'we tried to deliver etc etc' crap he will go out of his way to make sure eveyone gets their mail, parcels etc, knock doors to leave large items. He knows everyone's name, address etc. So if things are not addressed correctly he will make sure they arrive. Things I'm sure he's not supposed to do. A real old fashioned village postman, even the dogs love him.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it worth buying stamps? (UK)
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 10 Oct 07 - 05:52 AM

I'm not in a rural area but our postman is equally good - I would hate to lose the kind of service he gives us.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it worth buying stamps? (UK)
From: GUEST,Cats
Date: 10 Oct 07 - 06:17 AM

Buy your stamps and send your mail. Our post man in our very rural area is, like so many, a real lifeline to us. It is his, and people like him, job that is at risk. The talks so far have been open and constructive with a pay deal on the table. The problem is that with the pay increase offered they will have to take a real cut in their pensions and they jobs they do will change from day to day and they could end up being phoned up at home in the evening to be told what they are doing the next day! That is crazy and no way to run a business. The bosses call this modernisation but to an onlooker on the side lines it looks like a step backwards! CWU is trying to get the best deal all round and save the post office as well. Let's support our posties.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it worth buying stamps? (UK)
From: Splott Man
Date: 10 Oct 07 - 07:01 AM

Hear hear!

My dad was a postie and used to be on call on Christmas Day for telegrams.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it worth buying stamps? (UK)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Oct 07 - 07:29 AM

What puzzles me is, we keep on getting richer - but we evidently aren't able to afford all the public things we used to take for granted.

Private affluence and public squalor was how the economist JK Galbraith put it - and that was 50 years ago.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it worth buying stamps? (UK)
From: Folkiedave
Date: 10 Oct 07 - 07:51 AM

I live in a large city and our local post lady is a dream and just like a village postman.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it worth buying stamps? (UK)
From: Folkiedave
Date: 10 Oct 07 - 07:57 AM

Should have read postwoman of course. Apologies.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it worth buying stamps? (UK)
From: The PA
Date: 10 Oct 07 - 08:25 AM

Re cats post 6.17

We know someone who works for a massive internationally well known company and they have always behaved this way. You are employed to work, say, 37 hours per week but its not unusual to be told - you will be working until 8 every evening this week and on Saturday and Sunday OK. You can arrive for work in the morning and be sent home to do night shift for the rest of the week. They have always done this and no one thinks its unusual. They just go along with it not complaining, and no the wages and holiday entitlements are not great - just average for the UK.
Our friend was asked to relocate, some 100 miles to another plant. When he pointed out that this would mean, closing his wifes business, uprooting a child in the middle of exams, leaving elderly parents along with all the stress of moving house, his manager just said - well whats your problem? They were outraged when he refused.

I think these practices are more common than we would like to believe.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it worth buying stamps? (UK)
From: A Wandering Minstrel
Date: 10 Oct 07 - 08:31 AM

We obviously need a sliding scale for the stamps to give the posties their raise how about 10p (if you live in a small rural cottage 20 miles from anywhere) to £10 (if you work for a merchant banker (did I spell that right?))

Subject: RE: BS: Is it worth buying stamps? (UK)
From: GUEST,banjoman
Date: 11 Oct 07 - 06:42 AM

Take care when offering criticism of striking post office workers. They work for one of the last remaining organisations which offer a service to all at a unified cost. The reason for instituting nationalised indudtries was to ensure uniformity of service not dependant on costing. Look what happened to the railways - no "unprofitable lines" left so lots of people left reliant on cars.
Please support the preservation of Royal Mail - we will sorely regret its passing if we dont

Subject: RE: BS: Is it worth buying stamps? (UK)
From: GUEST,Jonny Sunshine
Date: 11 Oct 07 - 08:27 AM

I usually fail to get round to sending Xmas cards anyway, and think it's shameful that trees die just for me to write "Merry Christmas, love Jon" on the back of a picture of a robin.. but I digress.

I totally support the striking postal workers in holding out against the ever tighter demands of "modernisation". I think the postal service offers value for money as it is.

Managers talk of "flexibility"- their ideal postal service would mean you get a different postie every single day (because they're all on short-term contracts), who don't know any of the rounds (because they don't know from day to day where they'll be), and will leave a parcel on the doorstep rather than wait a minute for you to answer and miss their "productivity targets". And when you do complain cause the parcel got nicked, you'll be put through to a call centre in Bombay. Welcome to the new, competitive postal service.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it worth buying stamps? (UK)
From: Stu
Date: 11 Oct 07 - 10:39 AM

"Take care when offering criticism of striking post office workers"

Fair enough, but as a sole trader my business walks a knife-edge with cashflow and this sort of thing can and does send small businesses under.

So whilst I maintain solidarity with my fellow workers, they don't give two shades of shite about me. I don't draw a salary, my bank manager doesn't give a tinker's cuss about post strikes and wants his money regardless. If it get's delayed in the post tough shit mate - you're going under and it's all someone else's fault.

No wildcat strikes when a customer stiffs me on my 30 days, changes the spec and then refuses to budge on price, or the fact the government shaft me for VAT on everthing I buy whilst the multinational down the road claims the lot back.

Ultimately it's the entire system that's at fault here. The relentless pursuit of free market economic policies mean well all get shafted in the end, because all we can do is look after our own self-interests.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it worth buying stamps? (UK)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Oct 07 - 12:28 PM

the government shaft me for VAT on everything I buy whilst the multinational down the road claims the lot back.


How do they manage that? There are some pretty stiff rules about reclaiming vat.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it worth buying stamps? (UK)
From: Stu
Date: 11 Oct 07 - 01:10 PM

"How do they manage that?"

It's not the rules, it's the system. I don't turnover enough on my own to register for VAT. This is fine, but I need upgrade all my equipment and software periodically in order to remain competitive. However my nearest competitiors are larger businesses who are VAT registered.

So if I spend a grand on equipment or a software upgrade then I also stump up 17.5% VAT towards the war effort. The firm down the road however can claim the lot back, effectively getting it cheaper.

Now I know this is how it is, but it stinks. A student often gets the VAT knocked off plus a little more, and I believe this is how it should be for sole traders who are below a certain turnover threshold. It may be I don't have the overheads of a larger business but I also don't have funding to keep podding out for expensive equipment.

A friend of mine got fed up with this and became VAT registered. After a couple of years he got fed up with it as he was out of pocket (being just below the turnover threshold) and decided to go back to being a non-VAT trader. Bad mistake - HM Government Tax inspectors now check every time he takes a dump to see if he's fiddling them.

Considering sole traders are always said to be the backbone of entrepreneurship in this country, it's a shame we're seen as an inexhaustible supply of tax quids for whichever pillock is in charge at the Treasury at any given time.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it worth buying stamps? (UK)
From: Folkiedave
Date: 11 Oct 07 - 05:07 PM

Tony Benn makes a good case for the Post Office workers here. :

Subject: RE: BS: Is it worth buying stamps? (UK)
From: folk1e
Date: 11 Oct 07 - 05:20 PM

I note that in Liverpool the post workers returned to work only to be told that they would not be paid as their shifts had been altered (without notification)! Perhaps the notification was in the post???
Is it only me that sees this as an incitement to worsen the dispute?
It is almost like the miners strike, where the unions would make an agreement only to find the goal posts had been moved again.
The obvious end to this is for a "cheap" postal service to all the profitable areas, and a more "expensive" one to the areas that the others do not want to deliver to!
There are some things that lend themselves naturally to a monopoly market .......... and some that do not!

Subject: RE: BS: Is it worth buying stamps? (UK)
From: Stu
Date: 12 Oct 07 - 04:19 AM

Tony Benn is correct in pointing out the obsession of politicians for making public services profitable - this ridiculous notion has it's roots in the big public privatisations of the 1980's and 90s but has some notable exceptions - the killing machine of our military is not expected to turn a profit (although it may be deployed to safeguard the various vested interests of the country - say for instance, oil), even though it's been gradually run down by successive governments for since the Falklands (prior to that Thatcher was running it down anyway - in a spectacular display of hypocrisy she suddenly decided she needed a navy again).

I don't think Tony Benn makes a convincing case for the postal workers - they don't know themselves what they are striking for - but he does make a very convincing case for halting this insidious destruction of our infrastructure and nationalised industries by capitalists and profiteers, the very thing which has led to this dispute in the workplace.

In truth, I think the postal workers need to wake up and smell the roses (or perhaps shit?). 21st century capitalist Britain has finally clutched the poor sods to it's flabby bosom and they are finding out what life is like for so many workers in the private sector today. Bosses who see their staff as a resource, mere statictics to be shuffled about and whose sole use is the maximisation of profit for the benefit of shareholders or the board.

The working practices the posties are so aghast about are part of everyday life for a huge portion of the population - and if they don't realise that and get their act together the damage done to the postal service will be irreparable.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it worth buying stamps? (UK)
From: PMB
Date: 12 Oct 07 - 09:12 AM

the obsession of politicians for making public services profitable - this ridiculous notion has it's roots in the big public privatisations of the 1980's and 90s

Not at all. Beeching closed down the "unprofitable" parts of the railway system in the 60s. It is a ridiculous idea though.

The working practices the posties are so aghast about are part of everyday life for a huge portion of the population

That's true too, and one good reason why we should support the postal workers. It's only by fighting to protect working conditions that we can ever improve them for the rest. Poles, Czechs and Chinese included.

Subject: RE: BS: Is it worth buying stamps? (UK)
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 12 Oct 07 - 12:49 PM

A civilised society needs efficient public services - like a decent postal service, for example. It is a total outrage that the f*cking greedy, rapacious suits and 'bean-counters' are putting this service at risk.

**SUPPORT THE POSTAL WORKERS**

Subject: RE: BS: Is it worth buying stamps? (UK)
From: Stu
Date: 12 Oct 07 - 01:10 PM

**SUPPORT THE POSTAL WORKERS**

But be aware of the suffering of small business and support them too.